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New Will Rogers Arena

Cultural District New Arena

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#551 Electricron

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 01:48 AM

Asked Bud Kennedy on Twitter. The new arena won't have ice, hockey could be played at the old place. Good guess Electricron.

Edit - CORRECTION - the new arena WILL have ice, seating 12k.

Doesn't matter, a two week, three weekend hole in the middle of a  pro hockey and basketball season isn't going to attract even minor pro league teams. That's why I keep suggesting they use the old arena, believe it or not 6,000 seat capacity is plenty for these minor league teams.  

The ice plant at the new arena might be used for Disney on Ice shows and figure skating events - but pro teams will not like three weekends in a row missing from their home game schedules. 



#552 johnfwd

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 05:28 AM

Back to naming rights.  .If it has to be named after a clothing manufacture, the name "Williamson-Dickie Arena" would have sounded more sophisticated.  Dickie's Arena sounds like a barn in a cow pasture.



#553 renamerusk

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 08:35 AM

 

Asked Bud Kennedy on Twitter. The new arena won't have ice, hockey could be played at the old place. Good guess Electricron.

Edit - CORRECTION - the new arena WILL have ice, seating 12k.

Doesn't matter, a two week, three weekend hole in the middle of a  pro hockey and basketball season isn't going to attract even minor pro league teams. That's why I keep suggesting they use the old arena, believe it or not 6,000 seat capacity is plenty for these minor league teams.  

The ice plant at the new arena might be used for Disney on Ice shows and figure skating events - but pro teams will not like three weekends in a row missing from their home game schedules. 

 

 

 

Back to naming rights.  .If it has to be named after a clothing manufacture, the name "Williamson-Dickie Arena" would have sounded more sophisticated.  Dickie's Arena sounds like a barn in a cow pasture.

 

I don't recall the campaign for a new arena specifying that one of its objectives was to attract professional sports, minor or major.  Sporting events can certainly mean collegiate tournaments and olympics caliber events for which I am perfectly satisfied to host; as they bring in nearly 100 percent of out of town fans who bring in an infusion of out of town money and unlike a professional team whose base is largely local.

 

Dickie's is a wildly known brand.  I don't know how one can judge sophistication.  It is fortunate that a local company is happy to aid in the costs of operating the new arena with money that will come largely from sales of their products nationally.

 

Some of us will be comfortable calling it the "DA".



#554 tamtagon

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 08:27 AM

Super stoked this arena is on tap. Dickies ought to propel attendance at the Fort Worth Stock Show into the same league as Houston and San Antonio, of course I'd it to be bigger. I think eventually coordinated effort across Fort Worth attractions could challenge the for the title of "super bowl of stock shows"....



#555 PeopleAreStrange

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 08:39 PM

The San Antonio Stock Show & Rodeo is held at AT&T Center- a *full-sized* arena (18,000+ seats).

 

In other words, San Antonio's current arena is larger than our new arena will be.


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#556 JBB

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 08:48 PM

And NRG seats 75,000 for the Houston rodeo.  I'm excited about what the new arena will do for show and rodeo attendance, but it certainly won't push it into Houston territory.



#557 johnfwd

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 07:38 AM

Does anyone know if the project promoters and/or designers actually sat down and thought about necessary seating capacity of this arena in comparison with those of other major cities...as a matter of being competitive in luring high-quality sports events?  If they were just thinking of keeping costs down, this whole project has shortchanged voters and taxpayers.



#558 JBB

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 08:25 AM

I know I beat this dead horse often, but the arena is being built to suit the needs and expected crowds of the arena's permanent tenant that's footing more than half of the bill: the rodeo. I don't blame them for not wanting to run a rodeo with empty seats on the off chance that it might get them NCAA tournament regional rounds or a women's final four every 10 years. They've already managed to snag a set of first and second NCAA tournament games and NCAA gymnastics meets. I think I would hold off on saying it won't be "competitive" when it comes to attracting events.

#559 hannerhan

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 08:41 AM

Does anyone know if the project promoters and/or designers actually sat down and thought about necessary seating capacity of this arena in comparison with those of other major cities...as a matter of being competitive in luring high-quality sports events?  If they were just thinking of keeping costs down, this whole project has shortchanged voters and taxpayers.

 

Look at Sundance Square and ask yourself if the people that are responsible for it look like the types who would think short-term and cut corners.



#560 johnfwd

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 10:52 AM

If you're referring to Sundance Square Plaza, I'm not sure it's an analogous comparison with a sports arena.  Plaza's may have inter-city competition as a matter of environmental esthetics, but we're talking about an objective measurement--that is, the capacity of our new arena to handle large venues in competition with other arenas around the country.  I understand that this arena will be used predominantly by the rodeo industry. 

 

But here's a thought--a major arena of even Fort Worth's planned seating capacity is most likely a "one shot" project.  Because of costs, a city simply can't foot the bill to build an arena for rodeos and then another arena for a major sports franchise, at least in the foreseeable future.  So, logically (at least my logic), arena planners should have thought about long-range planning in terms of competing for larger venues, sports or otherwise.  If only for the sake of an increasing city population and a growing national recognition of Fort Worth as a host for some kind of major sport.  To spend a great deal of money on a smaller-scale project just to suit the rodeo crowd is, in my opinion, shortchanging us for future competition.



#561 JBB

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 11:06 AM

As much as I like to dream, the chances of a NHL or NBA franchise moving to Fort Worth are miniscule at best. The risk/reward on that off chance is just tilted so far to the risk side that I can see the reasoning. There are too many dominos that have to fall into place. As for a one shot, look at Arlington. Once the new Rangers ballpark opens, they will have partnered on 3 major stadium projects in just 26 years. Never say never.

#562 Jeriat

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 12:32 PM

I know I beat this dead horse often, but the arena is being built to suit the needs and expected crowds of the arena's permanent tenant that's footing more than half of the bill: the rodeo. I don't blame them for not wanting to run a rodeo with empty seats on the off chance that it might get them NCAA tournament regional rounds or a women's final four every 10 years. They've already managed to snag a set of first and second NCAA tournament games and NCAA gymnastics meets. I think I would hold off on saying it won't be "competitive" when it comes to attracting events.

 

Yeah, there are several people not seeing that. 

We'll get more events than that in the near future. 


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#563 hannerhan

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 01:55 PM

If you're referring to Sundance Square Plaza, I'm not sure it's an analogous comparison with a sports arena.  Plaza's may have inter-city competition as a matter of environmental esthetics, but we're talking about an objective measurement--that is, the capacity of our new arena to handle large venues in competition with other arenas around the country.  I understand that this arena will be used predominantly by the rodeo industry. 

 

But here's a thought--a major arena of even Fort Worth's planned seating capacity is most likely a "one shot" project.  Because of costs, a city simply can't foot the bill to build an arena for rodeos and then another arena for a major sports franchise, at least in the foreseeable future.  So, logically (at least my logic), arena planners should have thought about long-range planning in terms of competing for larger venues, sports or otherwise.  If only for the sake of an increasing city population and a growing national recognition of Fort Worth as a host for some kind of major sport.  To spend a great deal of money on a smaller-scale project just to suit the rodeo crowd is, in my opinion, shortchanging us for future competition.

 

My point is that the Bass family has proven over the past 4 decades that they think long-term.  You can bet that a LOT of thought went into exactly what you're asking about.



#564 renamerusk

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 06:17 AM

........ (1) But here's a thought--a major arena of even Fort Worth's planned seating capacity is most likely a "one shot" project.  Because of costs, a city simply can't foot the bill to build an arena for rodeos and then another arena for a major sports franchise, at least in the foreseeable future.  So, logically (at least my logic), arena planners should have thought about long-range planning in terms of competing for larger venues, sports or otherwise....(2)  If only for the sake of an increasing city population and a growing national recognition of Fort Worth as a host for some kind of major sport.  To spend a great deal of money on a smaller-scale project just to suit the rodeo crowd is, in my opinion, shortchanging us for future competition.

 

 (1) Even Dallas, during a time of fiscal sanity, understood that it was or did not meet its "high priority" list to build a stadium for the Sultans of Professional Sports (SPS)  when there were more pressing needs that had to be met then and in the future. And too, one must concede that there is a mountain of intangibles and factors that make Dallas renowned beside professional sports.

 

Dallas has not been the host of one of the "super majors" the NFL Cowboys since 1971 when the Cowboys home was the Cotton Bowl (1960-71 @ 11 yrs.); moving to Texas Stadium/Irving (1972-2008 @ 38yrs); and now to AT&T Stadium/Arlington (2009 -present @8-50yrs*). Dallas has never hosted the Rangers, a team that has been in the area for 45yrs and will be there for another 40 yrs*.   If you google team information about the two super majors, (Cowboys and Rangers), you will see first and foremost that the teams are listed as Dallas-Fort Worth, Texas franchises.   This, plus fiscal reality, is enough rationality to make me, and in the case of the City,  think that Fort Worth's leaders feel absolutely no pressure to build anything to accommodate the SPS at the expense of other civic priorities. I agree with the City's stance and their thinking.

 

(2) The arena will prove to be very productive venue hosting out of town visitors percentage wise then would local sports franchise.  Out of town business is a net infusion of money into the local economy; with the arena being the ideal venue at the appropriate sized for the influx of this kind of money.

 

The actual shortchanging of us for the future came when the City chose to refuse the seed money for a streetcar. Of course that is another discussion that is still needs to be revisited.



#565 Volare

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Posted 23 April 2017 - 07:54 AM

The actual shortchanging of us for the future came when the City chose to refuse the seed money for a streetcar. Of course that is another discussion that is still needs to be revisited.

 

 

That's because this project and that project were not run by the same Clan. You can be darn sure that had it been the Bass Streetcar line feeding Sundance square, it would have been like pigs at the public trough, just like this project is.



#566 johnfwd

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 08:34 AM

Afterthought about naming arena "Dickies."  Who am I to stand in the way of populism?  The name will grow on us over time and maybe we'll even forget good-ol' Will Rogers!  But calling it "DA" is risking criminal prosecution.

 

Renamerusk, I didn't know that Cowboys and Rangers were listed as "Dallas-Fort Worth" franchises.  With no intention of trying to be cute, if what you say is true, then I don't think Jerry Jones would mind if the Cowboys traded names periodically--maybe once every 10 years.  You know, 10 years as Dallas Cowboys and 10 years as Fort Worth Cowboys.  It's only fair, don't ya think?



#567 renamerusk

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 10:26 AM

(1) - Afterthought about naming arena "Dickies."  Who am I to stand in the way of populism?  The name will grow on us over time and maybe we'll even forget good-ol' Will Rogers!  But calling it "DA" is risking criminal prosecution.

 

(2) - Renamerusk, I didn't know that Cowboys and Rangers were listed as "Dallas-Fort Worth" franchises.  With no intention of trying to be cute, if what you say is true, then I don't think Jerry Jones would mind if the Cowboys traded names periodically--maybe once every 10 years.  You know, 10 years as Dallas Cowboys and 10 years as Fort Worth Cowboys.  It's only fair, don't ya think?

 

 1. Yes, the name may evoke a smile or two on the face of some; but it is well known locally and most, if not all of us here, have both an understanding and a bit of civic pride about the company.  As seems the custom for quick referencing, terms like AA Arena have become widely used and acceptable; and had the new arena been branded Lockheed Arena, I can easily imagine it being known as The Lock.  Here's a bet: Dickies will become synonmous with Fort Worth; while AA is used in both Dallas and Miami, which can did induce some confusion.

 

2. By all practical measures, the Cowboys are a DFW franchise, just like the International Airport is a DFW franchise. But more pertinent, the NFL by-laws grant the Cowboys not only Dallas and Fort Worth, based upon broadcasting rights, but a league abiding territorial rights that covers the vast majority of four adjacent states. Honestly, Cowboy fans in Oklahoma or Arkansas or even West Texas don't bother to think of the City of Dallas when giving their support to the Cowboys; I know that I certainly do not.

 

Pardon my lack in skills to narrow the following illustration to one illustration, but I think it provides ample proof to support my assertion:

 

https://www.google.c...z6btMBoI9ZvMBM:

 

:)



#568 johnfwd

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 10:52 AM

Wow!  Quite an expansive territory for the Cowboys.  But I would have thought it included the entire North American continent seeing as how fans dub it "America's team."  (Just joking...) 

 

Straying off topic here.  I hope the new Dickies Arena becomes a concert showcase while hosting rodeo events.



#569 renamerusk

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 11:30 AM

(1) Wow!  Quite an expansive territory for the Cowboys.  But I would have thought it included the entire North American continent seeing as how fans dub it "America's team."  (Just joking...) 

 

(2) Straying off topic here.  I hope the new Dickies Arena becomes a concert showcase while hosting rodeo events.

 

1 - Returning from a trip to N.M. during NFL season,  the flight was jammed with Cowboys Fans on their way to AT&T (Metroplex); even ABQ airport workers spoke of the Cowboys as though they were their team.

 

2 - DA is envisioned to meet the needs of a particular crowd size.  It is hard to contemplate a Superstar Entertainer forgoing a 20K AA or a 80K AT&T.; and eventually, Ranger Stadium  in ticket sells. I personally would prefer a Verizon. On the other hand, if you are hoping for concerts during rodeo, then perhaps.



#570 Austin55

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 03:24 PM

Crane erection going on at Dickies. 

 

DADu5Y4UwAAMM3q.jpg



#571 rriojas71

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 04:10 PM

Crane erection going on at Dickies. 
 
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I like what you did there Austin. Lmao

#572 Austin55

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Posted 06 June 2017 - 09:13 PM

Price is up to $540 million, taxpayers not on the hook.

http://www.star-tele...e154758124.html

#573 tamtagon

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Posted 07 June 2017 - 06:17 AM

I wonder if the WNBA would/could move from UTA to this stadium.



#574 Jeriat

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Posted 07 June 2017 - 06:40 AM

I wonder if the WNBA would/could move from UTA to this stadium.

 

Toss up, but I doubt it. 

Not trying to do the typical "Fort Worth über alles" thing, but if that were to happen, I'd prefer a name change. They can call themselves the Dallas Wings in Arlington all they want. Just not here.


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#575 Austin55

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Posted 08 June 2017 - 02:53 PM

Just as some comparisons. Remember there are lots of factors at play here though, all arenas have different amenities, sizes, costs of land, etc. 

 

T-Mobile Arena Las Vegas

-Home of NHL's Golden Knights
-Cost $350 Million ($450 including plaza)

-Max Capacity - 20,000

 

Rogers Place Edmonton

-Home of NHL's Oilers

-Cost $604.5 Million

-Max Capacity - 20,734

 

Golden One Center Sacramento
-Home of NBA's Kings

-Cost $534 million

-Max Capacity 18,000

 

Chase Center San Francisco
-Home of NBA's Warriors

-Cost $500 Million (Project, broke ground January)

-Max Capacity 18,000



#576 Jeriat

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Posted 08 June 2017 - 02:58 PM

Just as some comparisons. Remember there are lots of factors at play here though, all arenas have different amenities, sizes, costs of land, etc. 

 

T-Mobile Arena Las Vegas

-Home of NHL's Golden Knights
-Cost $350 Million ($450 including plaza)

-Max Capacity - 20,000

 

Rogers Place Edmonton

-Home of NHL's Oilers

-Cost $604.5 Million

-Max Capacity - 20,734

 

Golden One Center Sacramento
-Home of NBA's Kings

-Cost $534 million

-Max Capacity 18,000

 

Chase Center San Francisco
-Home of NBA's Warriors

-Cost $500 Million (Project, broke ground January)

-Max Capacity 18,000

 

All home to MAJOR pro sports teams... 


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#577 JBB

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Posted 08 June 2017 - 03:33 PM

The cheapest of those two projects were built without public financing support. I wouldn't believe those cost figures any further than I could throw the arenas underwater.

#578 renamerusk

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Posted 08 June 2017 - 05:00 PM

I wonder if the WNBA would/could move from UTA to this stadium.

 

The WNBA treated the City of Tulsa pretty badly.  In general, professional franchises are bad business for the taxpayers; and therefore, franchises should have to foot the majority costs of building and maintaining a stadium or arena that it occupies.

 

So my hope is that they do not move to Fort Worth.



#579 PeopleAreStrange

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Posted 09 June 2017 - 03:37 PM

 

Just as some comparisons. Remember there are lots of factors at play here though, all arenas have different amenities, sizes, costs of land, etc. 

 

T-Mobile Arena Las Vegas

-Home of NHL's Golden Knights
-Cost $350 Million ($450 including plaza)

-Max Capacity - 20,000

 

Rogers Place Edmonton

-Home of NHL's Oilers

-Cost $604.5 Million

-Max Capacity - 20,734

 

Golden One Center Sacramento
-Home of NBA's Kings

-Cost $534 million

-Max Capacity 18,000

 

Chase Center San Francisco
-Home of NBA's Warriors

-Cost $500 Million (Project, broke ground January)

-Max Capacity 18,000

 

All home to MAJOR pro sports teams... 

 

 

...and all are full-sized with a capacity of 18,000 or more people.

 

Our $90 million price jump makes me even more outraged that we're not getting a full-sized arena!


- Dylan


#580 renamerusk

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Posted 09 June 2017 - 04:00 PM

 

 

Just as some comparisons. Remember there are lots of factors at play here though, all arenas have different amenities, sizes, costs of land, etc. 

 

 

...and all are full-sized with a capacity of 18,000 or more people....Our $90 million price jump makes me even more outraged that we're not getting a full-sized arena!

 

 

The points that all arenas have different amenities....costs of land is something to take account of.

 

For local reference, the current stadium for the Texas Rangers has a capacity of slightly over 49,000.  The new stadium will have a capacity of 42,000.

While the new stadium is smaller by 15%, there will be some things that will make experiencing the stadium a lot more exciting and fan comfort oriented.

 

The DA will have, I am assuming, the latest technology to enhance fan comfort, without private suites, and will include things that will make the animals exhibited in the arena far better cared for.  DA will have as its mission to be the premier an exhibit space for animal events in the nation.

 

What I believe makes the City's investment in DA so wise is that it is targeted for a specific market which will not be dependent upon professional team owners who every 10 years want more concessions from their host city, thus avoiding shielding Fort Worth from having to bid against other cities, locally and nationally, to retain a sport team.



#581 johnfwd

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Posted 10 June 2017 - 01:51 PM

I don't understand why a 14,000-seat arena (Dickies) is projected to cost $540 million when the other 18000-20000-seat arenas listed here are in the $350 million-$600 million price range.  We're being short-changed.



#582 JBB

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Posted 10 June 2017 - 02:16 PM

It's not an apples-to-apples comparison. There are any number of financing, land, design, construction, infrastructure, amenity, and feature issues that can cause one building to cost more than another. I don't think anyone here know enough about the design of the arena to say that we're being shortchanged.

I would throw the $350 million Vegas arena out of the discussion as a huge outlier. There's something to that story that's not on the surface.

#583 Jeriat

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Posted 10 June 2017 - 10:56 PM

Keep in mind... the arena ITSELF isn't any more than $200 mil or so.

This was the breakdown from a couple years ago:

- 14k seat arena, $197 million
- parking structure, $29 million
- livestock building, $20 million
- plaza, $17 million
- site work, $38 million
- public art piece, $27 million
- land acquisition, $27 million
- professional services, $42 million
- contingency and marketing, $37 million
- finance costs, $15 million

So when you look at it that way, there's no reason to be upset about the additional number to the overall pricetag. I guarantee that $90 million is going to something else on the site.

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#584 PeopleAreStrange

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Posted 11 June 2017 - 07:30 PM

Most of those components (except for the livestock building, plaza, and public art piece) are probably factored into the cost of other arenas.


- Dylan


#585 Askelon

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 08:48 PM

 

(1) Wow!  Quite an expansive territory for the Cowboys.  But I would have thought it included the entire North American continent seeing as how fans dub it "America's team."  (Just joking...) 

 

(2) Straying off topic here.  I hope the new Dickies Arena becomes a concert showcase while hosting rodeo events.

 

1 - Returning from a trip to N.M. during NFL season,  the flight was jammed with Cowboys Fans on their way to AT&T (Metroplex); even ABQ airport workers spoke of the Cowboys as though they were their team.

 

2 - DA is envisioned to meet the needs of a particular crowd size.  It is hard to contemplate a Superstar Entertainer forgoing a 20K AA or a 80K AT&T.; and eventually, Ranger Stadium  in ticket sells. I personally would prefer a Verizon. On the other hand, if you are hoping for concerts during rodeo, then perhaps.

 

    In reference to renamerusk point # 2: You are correct Sir.

     Disappointed at capacity. Have to draw from my personal history growing up in this City. 

     For a number of years in the Seventies I went to concerts almost weekly. Where did I see Led Zepplin ( twice,) Emerson , Lake and Palmer, Parliament- Funkadelic , Boston, Rolling Stones, James Brown, Bob Dylan, The Three Kings ( B.B., Albert, and Freddie,) etc.? Tarrant County Convention Center. 

     Why?

     Because at the time TCCC held I think 14,000 ( might want to verify that ,) to Dallas Convention Centers 10,000. When Reunion Arena opened those days were over. 

     Now if I want to see Janelle Monae, Dirks Bentley, or Don Henley ( got my tix,) I've got to go to the Hanger in Dallas.

     We don't have to win every contest, but in my opinion we're not even competing. Without an arena in the 20 to 25 thousand range we miss any chance at concerts, conventions, trade shows, and I can't even imagine what else.

      In another thread in this Forum there is a discussion of how to present the city to strangers: do we emphasize cowboys, culture, business or relaxed lifestyle? In my mind we gotta get 'em here first. I see a larger arena as that opportunity to "get 'em here" first.


Without deviation from the norm progress is not possible. F. Zappa.


#586 John T Roberts

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 09:00 PM

You could try to search for such a thread and if you don't find one that fits, you can start one.



#587 JBB

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 09:00 PM

With solid amenities and the right promotion and booking process, there's no reason why the capacity of the new arena would be a problem.  The concert arena at Winstar holds 7700 and has no problem bringing in national touring acts that can fill larger arenas - Keith Urban, Brad Paisley, Darius Rucker, and that's just on the country side.



#588 panthercity

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 09:44 PM

With solid amenities and the right promotion and booking process, there's no reason why the capacity of the new arena would be a problem.  The concert arena at Winstar holds 7700 and has no problem bringing in national touring acts that can fill larger arenas - Keith Urban, Brad Paisley, Darius Rucker, and that's just on the country side.


That's true, but is there many venues in the immediate vicinity to compete with Winstar? I have only been there once and I'm not familiar with the area.

#589 JBB

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 09:54 PM

They're competing directly with venues in Fort Worth and Dallas.  So much so that their contracts with performers typically contain non-compete clauses that prevent them from playing venues in this area for a certain period after the show at Winstar.

 

I mentioned earlier in this thread that there's a market out there for shows in venues larger than Verizon Theater and smaller than the AAC or Starplex.  I've been to shows at the AAC in the last 5 years that had large parts of the seating area screened off and I've been to shows at Starplex that didn't utilize the lawn.







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