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Poll: Would you like a pro team (any kind) in Fort Worth someday? (31 member(s) have cast votes)

Would you like a pro team (any kind) in Fort Worth someday?

  1. YES for NFL (2 votes [6.45%])

    Percentage of vote: 6.45%

  2. YES for NBA (3 votes [9.68%])

    Percentage of vote: 9.68%

  3. YES for NHL (3 votes [9.68%])

    Percentage of vote: 9.68%

  4. YES for MLB (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  5. YES for "I'll take what we can get" (7 votes [22.58%])

    Percentage of vote: 22.58%

  6. NO for "No team at all" (10 votes [32.26%])

    Percentage of vote: 32.26%

  7. Undecided or Don't Care for it (6 votes [19.35%])

    Percentage of vote: 19.35%

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#51 lobster

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Posted 22 February 2005 - 10:50 AM

What about SF-Oak which are less than 10 miles apart? ;)
Our populations are similar.

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True nuff, but I have the answers :P

the Raiders were formed in 1960, SF49ers formed in 1950.
Oakland A's moved from Philly to Oakland in 1968, San Francisco Giants move from NY in 1968..

So, yassee, all those teams are pretty much grandfathered in and have a ton of history relevant to that city... the only recent example of a team moving to another city with a nearby team is the Expos going to DC with the Baltimore Orioles under a half hour away.. but DC & Baltimore aren't really considered the same metropolis ..

Interestingly enough, while doing my lil' research for this story, I caught this little blurb in the Oakland A's timeline:

"1962 - Charlie Finley is denied permission to move the Athletics to Dallas-Ft. Worth. " .. interesting..

#52 cjyoung

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Posted 22 February 2005 - 11:30 AM

What about SF-Oak which are less than 10 miles apart? :?:
Our populations are similar.

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True nuff, but I have the answers ;)

the Raiders were formed in 1960, SF49ers formed in 1950.
Oakland A's moved from Philly to Oakland in 1968, San Francisco Giants move from NY in 1968..

So, yassee, all those teams are pretty much grandfathered in and have a ton of history relevant to that city... the only recent example of a team moving to another city with a nearby team is the Expos going to DC with the Baltimore Orioles under a half hour away.. but DC & Baltimore aren't really considered the same metropolis ..

Interestingly enough, while doing my lil' research for this story, I caught this little blurb in the Oakland A's timeline:

"1962 - Charlie Finley is denied permission to move the Athletics to Dallas-Ft. Worth. " .. interesting..

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That tidbit is interesting. ;)

FYI, I'm fully aware of the timeline of sports in the Bay Area...I'm just a frustrated second place (or any other place besides first place) finisher. :P :cry: :cry:

What's it like living downtown?

#53 lobster

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Posted 22 February 2005 - 02:11 PM

What's it like living downtown?

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heh! i started to answer, but after four paragraphs I realized "damn, he got me started" .. so look for my answer in a new thread ;)

#54 DrkLts

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Posted 22 February 2005 - 07:00 PM

Sam Stone Posted Today, 08:29 AM
  Bud Kennedy has an interesting piece today:
http://www.dfw.com/m...al/10960754.htm

We all might have been missing something. I'm not an autoracing fan, but it is a sport. We don't have a team, but we do have a big venue. Maybe if we are willing to redefine "major league sporting venue" we can accept that we already have one.


I just read the S-T article. What I been trying to point out all along. I started this topic and I clearly said once and I'll say it again from the 1st post "Although sports is not the heart and soul of a city, it really puts the city name out there" and Bud Kennedy just proved it. Fort Worth willing to dump tons of money on a what???? SPORTS VENUE! To get our name branded on TMS :)

#55 DrkLts

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Posted 27 February 2005 - 09:43 PM

The other day I mentioned the now defunct Fort Worth Cavalry of the Arena Football League. I asked if the AFL is a true profesional sports league. Assuming it is, that means FW indeed did HAVE a pro team. Which leads to my new question.

At any point in the years/decades past, did FW ever come close to landing a pro team? Like negotiations failed with the city or something? I was wondering because my uncle told me that he recalled some team from here playing the Cowboys back in the day. If there was a team here that was around, I'm thinking he meant a minor league playing an exhibition game or such. He wasn't sure.

#56 Y2J

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Posted 28 February 2005 - 09:00 AM

I had no idea we had an arena football team, the things you can learn from this forum. By the way, Im new to this. Hi everyone :wink:

#57 John T Roberts

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Posted 28 February 2005 - 09:17 AM

Welcome to the forum.

#58 Y2J

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Posted 28 February 2005 - 10:57 AM

thanks JTRoberts, i look forward to reading and posting on this forum

#59 lobster

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Posted 28 February 2005 - 12:19 PM

I had no idea we had an arena football team, the things you can learn from this forum. By the way, Im new to this. Hi everyone  :)

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As a matter of fact, they won the championship title in 1997 ^_^

btw welcome <_<

#60 lobster

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Posted 28 February 2005 - 12:24 PM

one more trivia thing to note:

The Fort Worth Cavalry's offices were located where Coffee Haus and Rick O'Shea's pub at 904 Houston Street stand in the HP bldg.. it was Matt McEntire that moved the Blarney Stone up above ground in '97 and made the partition that now makes Rick O'Shea's on the right.

#61 Y2J

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Posted 01 March 2005 - 08:40 AM

hey guys what ever happend to the fort worth fire hockey team? man i had fun going to them games. before i knew it, they just dissapeared :smwink:

#62 DrkLts

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Posted 01 March 2005 - 11:09 AM

Y2J Posted Today, 08:40 AM
hey guys what ever happend to the fort worth fire hockey team? man i had fun going to them games. before i knew it, they just dissapeared


I think FW couldnt support two hockey teams at the time they left. i thought they were a succesful minor league team. Makes be wonder what the life span of the Brahmas will be no matter how good they end up being

#63 DrkLts

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Posted 25 August 2005 - 09:18 PM

I just went to Kansas City Homepage for an update on thier new arean thats in the works. It should be completed by 2007 and what's interesting is that it is intended to lure a NHL or NBA team. My wish before I heard about the arena was for FW to of did the same and now some other city did do such a thing. Talk about build it, they will come theory. Now there is no guarantee that a team will locate there because of a nice new arena, but if fort worth would of built an NFL stadium, the Cowboys would be here instead of Arlington. :D

#64 Buck

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Posted 27 August 2005 - 04:02 PM

DrkLts, maybe you're talking about the Fort Worth Braves.

They never played the Cowboys but talked about it a lot.

The Braves were a Continental League team owned by oilman Tommy Mercer, a good friend and partner of Lamar Hunt's (KC Chiefs). There was always talk about how Hunt chose between Fort Worth and KC for moving the team, which started as the Dallas Texans.

The Braves had some good crowds at Farrington Field, and they played a lot of games against the San Antonio Toros, whose PR man and backup kicker was young Norm Hitzges.

#65 safly

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Posted 27 August 2005 - 10:43 PM

Is this Buck from the FWST?

Interesting factoid on "Normie". Always enjoyed his tele-cast during NRyan games. Big fan of him and his radio shows. VERY knowledgeable person. Well deserving man of his latest awards.
COWTOWN! Get your TIP ON!
www.iheartfw.com

#66 Willy1

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Posted 28 August 2005 - 01:55 AM

I think the huge buzz kill on the whole deal is that Dallas already has a franchise for all the major sports .. and with MLB being in Arlington, there's no chance FW would get one 15 miles away... Only the super huge megatropolis can warrant having two NFL teams (NYC), two NHL teams (NYC), two NBA teams (NYC, LA), or two MLB teams (NYC, Chicago) ...

I really don't know why FW didn't step up to the plate when Irving was giving up the Cowboys though.. During a city council presentation in 2003 I asked if FW will ever try to acquire the Cowboys and Jim Lane -- "Head of the Fort Worth Sports [something something] Committee" -- responded "trust me, we've been trying".. Eh, I'm not a huge Arlington connoisseur, but it's fair to say anything like that coming to Tarrant County makes it more Fort Worth's than Dallas'  -_-

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Actually, I have to disagree with one point here... The Cowboys coming to Tarrant County does not make the Cowboys more FW's than Dallas'... it makes the Cowboys more Arlington's than Dallas'. FW has NO, NADA, NONE, ZERO, ZILCH, ZIP claim to the Cowboys. They are moving to ARLINGTON. We can't be hypocrites and start stealing Arlington's credit for having the initative to get the Cowboys... We're always complaining about Dallas stealing credit for things that are in FW... Why should we turn around and do the same thing to Arlington. If FW wanted credit for the Cowboys or Rangers, then FW should have made a REAL effort to get them. FW had an opportunity for both teams to hang their hats in FW when the time was right and they just didn't do it. We don't have claim to the Superbowl, Six Flags, the Cowboys, or anything East of the FW City Limits. Arlington might be a suburb, but they are a whole lot less dependant on FW than FW depends on Dallas so they deserve the credit for having the vision to take the risk.

The main reason FW does not have any pro sports teams - and won't have any for a very long time - is because unlike Dallas and Arlington, FW does not have a "build it and they will come" attitude toward development. If FW had more of a risk-taking attitude towards things like that, then we probably would have a pro sports team or two by now.... among many other things that the city has let slip through their civic fingers... This is a very simplified reason why FW is not a Tier 1 city...

#67 Willy1

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Posted 28 August 2005 - 11:31 AM

Oops. I misvoted. I voted "No - not for any" on accident. I thought the question was "Is FW likely to get a pro sports team". Of course I'd LIKE FW to have one... I just don't think it will ever happen.

#68 Now in Denton

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 10:06 AM

Did anyone get last friday S-T story. About maybe moving the Dallas Stars to Fort Worth? How the new owner has family in Fort Worth. The Stars are over shadowed by the Mavs. And Fort Worth was looking to build a new Arena anyway.

#69 elpingüino

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 04:08 PM

Did anyone get last friday S-T story. About maybe moving the Dallas Stars to Fort Worth? How the new owner has family in Fort Worth. The Stars are over shadowed by the Mavs. And Fort Worth was looking to build a new Arena anyway.


The column is question is Dallas Stars should consider moving to Fort Worth by Bud Kennedy.

The Stars' lease at American Airlines Center runs through 2031. Even if they can get out of it, I highly doubt they'd go to that much trouble to move to Fort Worth.

#70 Jeriat

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 09:06 AM

As far as the Big Four goes...

- NFL: NO. The DALLAS Cowboys will always be the team in DFW. No move to Tarrant County will change that.
- MLB: Technically we do have the Rangers and always have since they moved here. But let's face it, they're not gonna claim FW or even Arlington in the media.
- NHL: Someone just mentioned the Stars? Don't see it happening, even after 2031.
That just leaves the NBA. I feel that's the BEST shot we'd have at a major pro franchise for Fort Worth. Thing is, we'd need an NBA arena. We have about 4 indoor facilities and neither one of them come CLOSE to that. Also, there are a few questions in that. Would a team move to FW? Would we get an expansion francise in the future? Will there even be support?

As for any other pro franchise, I think we'd have as much or probably even a better shot at Major League Soccer. Compared to the other big leagues, it's pretty cheap to get a team and stadiums don't cost billions to build.

I'd even say go for Arena Football and WNBA. But we'd still need a bigger arena. Plus, who know's how long the WNBA will stay around?

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#71 JBB

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 09:42 AM

The Mavericks have the exact same 30 year lease agreement with the AAC as the Stars. Fort Worth's current arena effort is focused on the rodeo aspect and rightfully so. The rodeo has no potential for growth in the their facility and it seems unlikely that effort would sit around and wait another 19 years on a major league sports tenant to foot part of the bill. And by no means should Fort Worth make an effort to build a facility ready for a pro franchise without a tenant on board to pay a significant portion of the costs.

#72 Jeriat

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 11:37 AM

The Mavericks have the exact same 30 year lease agreement with the AAC as the Stars. Fort Worth's current arena effort is focused on the rodeo aspect and rightfully so. The rodeo has no potential for growth in the their facility and it seems unlikely that effort would sit around and wait another 19 years on a major league sports tenant to foot part of the bill. And by no means should Fort Worth make an effort to build a facility ready for a pro franchise without a tenant on board to pay a significant portion of the costs.


I understand that... but does it HAVE to be 12,000 seats? Also, KC and Tulsa aren't bringing in an NBA/NHL team anytime soon, but they at least have AFL and WNBA, even hosting big events like the Big XII Hoops Championships and Women's Final Four. There's also concerts and possible convention or expo space that could be used for it, just like every other "small" new arena that's been built in this country over the last couple years.

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#73 JBB

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 12:27 PM

How much bigger than 12k does it need to be? A few minutes of quick searches tells me that 12k would be more than enough to accommodate the average attendance of every team in the WNBA except NYC and every AFL team except for Tampa Bay. Tulsa doesn't even average 5000 for the WNBA team. I don't know why it's being held at 12k at this point, but a good assumption would be that's the rodeo (who already has a pretty big financial stake in this arena) feels they can grow into an arena with double the capacity of the current venue. The improved amenities (modern restrooms and concessions, premium seating not consisting of folding chairs in plywood boxes, better load in/load out accommodations) alone should make it a more appealing venue than both of FW's current arenas and give it a good chance to fill more dates than they're currently able to fill. They may not be able to snag a national political convention or the Rolling Stones on their next tour, but I feel like there are plenty of options out there for a 12000 seat arena.

#74 cberen1

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 01:13 PM

I'd like to see a lot of attention paid to accoustics. If Fort Worth had a great concert venue, it would be the start of something new for Fort Worth. I doubt you'll ever see an NBA or NHL team in Fort Worth, but you should design it so you can retro-fit luxury boxes at a later date if needed.

Capacity of 12,000 sounds fine to me, but I have no frame of reference. Rather than comparing it to average WNBA attendance I think you need to compare it to similar facilities in markets we would compete with. You don't know what the trends are going to be in 10 years, but these facilities hang around a lot longer. You know they'll be around in ten years and these are the facilities we'll be competing with for shows, teams, etc. Maybe 12,000 is the number and maybe it isn't.

So I get back to accoustics. This is something we can control that pays immediate dividends and never goes out of style.

#75 Jeriat

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 02:28 PM

I was thinking 15-16k.

I guess have it at 12k with the possibility of expanding...

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#76 RD Milhollin

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Posted 14 May 2012 - 11:09 PM

I'd like to see a lot of attention paid to accoustics. If Fort Worth had a great concert venue, it would be the start of something new for Fort Worth. I doubt you'll ever see an NBA or NHL team in Fort Worth, but you should design it so you can retro-fit luxury boxes at a later date if needed.

Capacity of 12,000 sounds fine to me, but I have no frame of reference. Rather than comparing it to average WNBA attendance I think you need to compare it to similar facilities in markets we would compete with. You don't know what the trends are going to be in 10 years, but these facilities hang around a lot longer. You know they'll be around in ten years and these are the facilities we'll be competing with for shows, teams, etc. Maybe 12,000 is the number and maybe it isn't.

So I get back to accoustics. This is something we can control that pays immediate dividends and never goes out of style.


On your first point I would have to respectfully disagree, if you are referring to rock music concerts. It would not be the beginning of something new, it would be the return of Fort Worth as the premier concert venue for north Texas. In the early days of RnR really big shows were wherever the expected crowd could be accommodated, no regard for acoustics. The Beatles played a baseball stadium in NYC, and Memorial Auditorium in Dallas. Elvis played in the Cotton Bowl. Hendrix at Will Rogers. But when the TCCC Arena was built most of the serious shows went there. I can remember the Stones (Lotus Stage), Led Zepp, Tull, Floyd, Deep Purple, Diana Ross, Springsteen, Supertramp, Santana, the touring production of Jesus Christ Superstar, McCartney and Wings, Dylan and the Band, etc. all choosing Fort Worth over Dallas; probably capacity had a lot to do with it since this all seemed to end when Reunion Arena was built in Dallas. But Dallas had venues before Reunion, and they were all like big cattle barns, and they still are. Reunion and ACC both had/have terrible echoes, especially in the balconies. The round TCC Arena didn't. The Yes shows using the revolving stage-in-the-round, and the quadrophonic Pink Floyd productions I saw were unequalled in my concert-going experience for superb sound, and this was all pre-digital. One has to take into account that the music scene today is significantly different than back in the 70's. Back then a lot more fans actually went to concerts, it was a much bigger deal than for fans today. The ridiculously inflated prices of tickets probably has a lot of do with that, and with the fact that the biggest concert draws in the 2010's are some of the same that were touring around in the 1970's. Many of the newer bands, even the really successful ones, play clubs.

I absolutely agree that size for size sake is not the best criteria to use when building an arena. The projected uses have to be considered, and they are not likely to include NBA, WNBA, AFL, or any other non-collegiate sports events other than wrestling or an occasional pre-Olympics indoor events exhibition or competition. Of course building an arena of any substantial size for the stock show rodeo, an event that lasts three weeks per year sounds pretty silly. Building in naturally fine acoustics would make the arena more marketable the rest of the year.

#77 ron4Life

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 08:00 AM

Isn't high time that the Mavs move they're facility to Arlington with the rest of the sporting venues? And, place Arlington Highland in that area as well. It's Tarrant(Fort Worth) County which still benefits Cowtown..

#78 renamerusk

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 06:34 PM

....Of course building an arena of any substantial size for the stock show rodeo, an event that lasts three weeks per year sounds pretty silly.


Precisely. By the way, what are the odds that Will Rogers Memorial Coliseum will be razed once the Bass Memorial Coliseum is opened?

#79 johnfwd

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 08:01 AM


....Of course building an arena of any substantial size for the stock show rodeo, an event that lasts three weeks per year sounds pretty silly.


Precisely. By the way, what are the odds that Will Rogers Memorial Coliseum will be razed once the Bass Memorial Coliseum is opened?

Interesting point...about names here. Will Rogers was a renouned cowboy, western humorist, and film actor of the 1920s and '30s. His name was embraced institutionally in Oklahoma City (Will Rogers World Airport) and Fort Worth (our rodeo coliseum), among other cities. Now the Bass family stands for big business and high-brow culture. So I guess this is where Fort Worth is headed? Sports-wise, I'm not dissing rodeos and stock shows, but they haven't been the popular sports entertainments since the era of mass-marketing via TV beginning in the 1950s.

#80 John T Roberts

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 09:59 AM

Rename, Historic Fort Worth thinks there is a good chance that the 1936 Will Rogers Coliseum, Auditorium, and Pioneer Tower will be demolished once the new arena is opened. That's why the organization keeps placing it on their most endangered list. With no local historic designation, the buildings could be demolished with just the approval of the demolition permit.

#81 Jeriat

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 10:45 AM

Rename, Historic Fort Worth thinks there is a good chance that the 1936 Will Rogers Coliseum, Auditorium, and Pioneer Tower will be demolished once the new arena is opened. That's why the organization keeps placing it on their most endangered list. With no local historic designation, the buildings could be demolished with just the approval of the demolition permit.


That would be a damn shame. I believe that historic buildings should only be demolished if they HAVE to be.

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#82 John T Roberts

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 11:01 AM

I agree with you, Josh.

#83 renamerusk

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 12:47 PM

Rename, Historic Fort Worth thinks there is a good chance that the 1936 Will Rogers Coliseum, Auditorium, and Pioneer Tower will be demolished once the new arena is opened. That's why the organization keeps placing it on their most endangered list. With no local historic designation, the buildings could be demolished with just the approval of the demolition permit.


O' H_ll No!..Not Pioneer Tower.

You can take it to the bank that if something like that was allowed to happen, there will be a political lynching of the presiding Mayor and City Council.

Pioneer Tower (PT) is and has become as iconic as the Tarrant County Courthouse in Fort Worth. Before the final agreements are inked for a new arena, the preservation of PT must be certifiably guaranteed; or no deal. To its credit, the Bass Empire has a favorable streak towards history and preservation giving me hope and the belief that what remains of the WRMC site can become a cultural district plaza with PT as the anchor.

Keep Pioneer Tower Alive.

#84 ron4Life

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 12:50 PM

Ok, maybe you guys might have answered this already but what are they building west of the Casa Manana on the lot where the Stock Show is usually held?

#85 ron4Life

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 11:51 AM

Do anyone have a rendition of what the new Will Rogers Arena suppose to look like? Or whatever work that is going on over there, some type of art work.

#86 John T Roberts

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Posted 21 May 2012 - 01:30 PM

To my knowledge, nothing has been released.

#87 cjyoung

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 05:37 PM

Same old story after we started this thread 8 years ago. :angry2:

 

I still blame the corny "cowboys and culture" attitude.






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