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Trinity Park at Mayfest time...my beef!


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#1 johnfwd

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 02:20 PM

I love arts and crafts fairs and volunteer for the Main Street event each year.  BUT I also like to ride my bike on the trails through Trinity Park without having to take a circuitous detour through the woods.  I know this is an old story...but why does Mayfest have to block off the trail?  Why can't the fence line stop just parallel to the trail so bikers. runners, and walkers can still traverse the length?  I say this because Mayfest is a quasi-public event--i.e., it's exclusive entertainment because it charges an admission fee.  I don't think it would harm the artists, etc., if the trail was left unimpeded.



#2 Fort Worthology

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 02:27 PM

I find this absolutely maddening every year.  It seems utterly unnecessary to block the trail.



#3 dangr.dave

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 03:04 PM

So, they block the trails, then give money to make them more accessible (http://www.mayfest.org/where--goes).  Couldn't they leave the trails open, like mentioned above, and then have something set up (booths or signs) to show trail users how much better their experience will be in the future because of Mayfest?  That way, those who use the trail will remember something positive about Mayfest's presence and not how they had to be inconvenienced.  And, if they see someone sneaking in to the fest and that person doesn't have an armband, or whatever the festival uses, they can just have security taze them and drag their limp, quivering body to another location.



#4 John T Roberts

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 04:10 PM

Since they built the crushed limestone loop trail (detour) through the woods, I don't have that much of a problem with it, even though some years, the trail has been closed close to a month for Mayfest.  I guess the reason I don't mind is that I have been cycling for so many years that the construction of the loop trail was a major step forward.  Before that was opened, I avoided Trinity Park from mid-April until mid-May. 



#5 Volare

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 04:33 PM

I've been riding a lot in the past couple of weeks getting back into it, and every time I've ridden thru the Park I've sworn I would email Julia McCleary and BFFW and ask if there isn't some way we can at least keep the trail open until the 4 days of Mayfest. The section of trail thru Trinity Park is easily the busiest bicycle pavement in all of the city. Seems dumb that it gets shut down for over 2 weeks for a 4 day festival. The limestone trail is a poor substitute- it is poorly maintained, poorly marked, poorly lit and often flooded by spring rains. Wholly unacceptable for those of us riding skinny tires.

 

When the 4th of July comes along and they set up fireworks up by LaGrave, they have all kinds of fencing set up along the trail, but the trail is never closed except for when the fireworks are happening. No reason at all the same couldn't be done to the trail adjacent to Mayfest.



#6 Volare

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 08:16 AM

Mayor Price has the following question up on her Facebook right now: Question of the Week: What’s your favorite Mayfest Fort Worth, Texas memory?

 

A really snarky person would say something like: When the Trinity Trail reopens after being closed unnecessarily for over two weeks.



#7 Fort Worthology

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 09:40 AM

Mayor Price has the following question up on her Facebook right now: Question of the Week: What’s your favorite Mayfest Fort Worth, Texas memory?

 

A really snarky person would say something like: When the Trinity Trail reopens after being closed unnecessarily for over two weeks.

 

Done.



#8 Doohickie

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Posted 05 May 2014 - 12:26 PM

This doesn't bother me at all. It's a slight detour around Mayfest. If you're going to have a festival in the park along the river, it makes sense to include the riverfront in the festival boundaries. It's a minimal time adder if you're going around it, and if you want river access, you can get that north or south of Mayfest.

I really don't see the issue.
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#9 Volare

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Posted 05 May 2014 - 02:12 PM

As of 11 am today, still not open.

 

Doohickie, imagine if, for the Main Street arts festival, we shut down Main Street for almost 3 weeks. Would that be acceptable?

 

In this case, the particular section of the trail that they shut down is the busiest section of trail in the entire city. So my analogy aboee would be more correct if I said shut down I-35W for the Main Street Arts festival. As it is Mayfest interacts minimally with the river or the trail- it is set up around the park road and the park itself. A section of temporary fencing along the trail could be utilized, just as is done for the Lagrave 4th of July fireworks, and this problem would be solved.

 

Who do we need to lobby to see that this practice ends? I was thinking Julia McCleary. Any other ideas?



#10 John T Roberts

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Posted 05 May 2014 - 02:22 PM

I would suggest that you attend one of the rolling town hall meetings with Mayor Price.   In my mind there, is no better way to discuss bicycling issues with the Mayor, while both of you are on a bike.  I have discussed several issues with her on those, and the issues were resolved almost immediately.  A large pot hole was fixed within a few days because one of her routes and a traffic light changing to red caused her to notice the large hole in the street.  I didn't even have to tell her about that one.



#11 Doohickie

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Posted 06 May 2014 - 07:58 AM

Doohickie, imagine if, for the Main Street arts festival, we shut down Main Street for almost 3 weeks. Would that be acceptable?


They closed Main permanently between 3rd and 4th. People don't seem to mind too much.

I use the trail through there regularly and I think you're all just being a big bunch of whiners. It's fine as a detour, yes, even for 3 weeks. No big deal.

Why is this so objectionable to you? Why is it such a tragedy? I honestly don't get it.
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#12 Volare

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Posted 06 May 2014 - 08:20 AM

Seriously? The closure of Main between 3rd and 4th is a permanent part of Sundance Square, not a two week closure for a 4 day long festival.

 

This is objectionable precisely because it is unnecessary and preventable, and it affects the busiest section of trail in the entire city. The by-pass is poorly marked, mostly unlit, and often flooded. For those of us riding skinny tires, it's downright dangerous.

 

I have offered facts regarding how the trail is dealt with for other temporary events such as the 4th of July.

 

Unfortunately, as is so often the case on this board recently, instead of debating or even acknowledging facts, the discussion turns into name calling: You're a Whiner. You're a shill for the Tea Party. You're a suburb lover. You're a socialist. :no:



#13 dangr.dave

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Posted 06 May 2014 - 09:33 AM

Also, the closure of Main Street is only to vehicular traffic.  Pedestrians can still walk through and bicyclists can still walk their bikes through it, so I don't think the comparison is valid.



#14 Doohickie

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 12:45 PM

I've ridden skinny tire bikes on that trail. It's not dangerous.

I think it is a fair allocation of resources. Mayfest has a perimeter fence and it's a festival along the river. It makes no sense to put the fence just inland of the trail, let the fest go all the way to the river. The alternate route is ever-so-slightly longer, and yes, it isn't paved. Lots of TT sections aren't paved. It is up to basic standards for TT crushed stone trails and is an adequate detour.

I'm sorry you're so butt-hurt about this, but that's the way it is. It's a reasonable accommodation for an event with a long history in Fort Worth. Don't expect it to change.
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#15 JBB

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 12:55 PM

I don't think anyone is saying the perimeter shouldn't go to the river. Take the fence to the river and only block the trail itself with fencing for the week of the festival. Like they do for July 4. It's a reasonable accomodation for a city that pats itself on the back as being bike friendly pretty regularly.

#16 Fort Worthology

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 01:10 PM

Exactly right, JBB.  The extended closure is ridiculous compared to the duration of the event itself.



#17 David Love

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 02:15 PM

Anyone have a visual map of this situation?


Better Business Bureau:  A place to find or post valid complaints for auto delerships and maintenance facilities. (New Features) If you have a valid gripe about auto dealerships, this is the place to voice it.


#18 johnfwd

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 11:10 AM

Visual map?  No, but I'd say it's about a two-tenths of a mile stretch running south-north of Trinity Park on its east side bordering the bike/pedestrian trail.  On the south end, it's just north of the miniature train track crossing and the seated Mark Twain statue; on the north end, the miniature train's overhead track bridge.  The trail has been re-opened more than a week as of this date.  My concern is that we will all forget the inconvenience until it happens again next year come Mayfest time.  Incidentally, I'm not whining just stating a fact. 



#19 Volare

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 11:58 AM

Visual map?  No, but I'd say it's about a two-tenths of a mile stretch running south-north of Trinity Park on its east side bordering the bike/pedestrian trail.  On the south end, it's just north of the miniature train track crossing and the seated Mark Twain statue; on the north end, the miniature train's overhead track bridge.  The trail has been re-opened more than a week as of this date.  My concern is that we will all forget the inconvenience until it happens again next year come Mayfest time.  Incidentally, I'm not whining just stating a fact. 

 

All correct as John has stated, except that the northern boundary is the overhead full size traintrack that crosses the Trinity, not the mini train.

 

Here is a map with my crude drawing on it. The section that is closed is in Red. The bypass is in blue.

 

Trinity-reroute.png



#20 johnfwd

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Posted 05 May 2015 - 11:12 AM

Redux, of a sort.  Had to dodge mud puddles in the park this year, on account of Mayfest.  Yes, it could have been worse, if we'd had rain during the arts festival.  More rain is on the way and I doubt if the blockades will be lifted this week.  Love Mayfest, but hate a muddy bike.  Not whining about any inconvenient detours in my "recreational" biking because it's not entirely recreational.  I like commuting to work downtown by bicycle via the Trails, principally to save on gas.  Speaking of changes in lifestyle and the need for bicycle highways!



#21 John T Roberts

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Posted 05 May 2015 - 12:31 PM

I rode through the park with a couple of friends on Thursday evening, and we were all on road bikes.  We had to dismount twice on that stretch due to the mud and the washed out condition of the crushed limestone.  I was actually a little surprised on the poor condition of the trail.  The last time I had been through there, it wasn't impassable.  This time, it appears a lot of the gravel has washed out of the trail path, itself.



#22 Volare

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Posted 05 May 2015 - 04:01 PM

I had lunch yesterday with my friend who is my districts rep for the new bicycle and pedestrian committee. I said now that Mayfest is over we can start working on this issue so it's fixed before next year. He said everyone he sees talks to him about it, so clearly there is visibility for the issue. Be sure to mention it to your rep to keep it on the burner so it doesn't get forgotten now that Mayfest is over.



#23 johnfwd

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 10:05 AM

Riding my bike through Trinity Park this morning I noticed a sign about Mayfest to be held May 4-7.  The sign also stated that Trinity Park will be blocked off to bicycle and pedestrian traffic on the Trails starting this Monday, April 17 and continue blocked during the arts festival and about a couple weeks after it ends.



#24 Doohickie

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 10:57 AM

I find it ridiculous that they take the park offline for a full month every year.  Set up the week leading up to it and tear it down the following week.  They do it that way for the Main Street Art Fest, not sure why Mayfest needs all the extra time.


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#25 Volare

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 09:23 PM

Ridiculous. Time for my annual complaint letter to my Council Rep and Bike and Pedestrian Committee member.



#26 johnfwd

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 09:12 AM

For bike riders headed north but having to detour through the park because of Mayfest, here's how you can re-connect to the Trails without having to travel on muddy park paths after a rain storm.  Just before the blockade on the park's south side, bike on over to University and pedal north on University about 2-tenths of a mile to Crestline Road.  Then pedal east on Crestline back into the park and take Trinity Park Drive to Cottonwood Drive, which gets you near the Trails on the park's north side just south of the Lancaster Avenue bridge.



#27 fw_advocate

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 01:24 PM

I find it ridiculous that they take the park offline for a full month every year.  Set up the week leading up to it and tear it down the following week.  They do it that way for the Main Street Art Fest, not sure why Mayfest needs all the extra time.

Here are the reasons they must close the park for that period of time.  For what it's worth, part of the funds from Mayfest go directly to the trails and parks that make this city great.

 

https://www.mayfest....ty-park-closure



#28 Doohickie

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 06:06 AM

Here are the reasons they must close the park for that period of time.  For what it's worth, part of the funds from Mayfest go directly to the trails and parks that make this city great.
 
https://www.mayfest....ty-park-closure


Totally lame.  They can (and used to) leave the trail open until just before the event.  But no, they have to hog the park to themselves.  Look at all the temporary infrastructure set up for the Main Street Art Fest.  If they can limit their street closures due to setup to the week just prior to the event, there's no reason why Mayfest can't do the same.  That page you linked tries to put a positive spin on it, but it makes me hate them even more.  They suck.


For bike riders headed north but having to detour through the park because of Mayfest, here's how you can re-connect to the Trails without having to travel on muddy park paths after a rain storm.  Just before the blockade on the park's south side, bike on over to University and pedal north on University about 2-tenths of a mile to Crestline Road.  Then pedal east on Crestline back into the park and take Trinity Park Drive to Cottonwood Drive, which gets you near the Trails on the park's north side just south of the Lancaster Avenue bridge.

 

A good friend of mine was hit by a car last year doing that.


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#29 Volare

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 07:23 AM

 

I find it ridiculous that they take the park offline for a full month every year.  Set up the week leading up to it and tear it down the following week.  They do it that way for the Main Street Art Fest, not sure why Mayfest needs all the extra time.

Here are the reasons they must close the park for that period of time.  For what it's worth, part of the funds from Mayfest go directly to the trails and parks that make this city great.

 

https://www.mayfest....ty-park-closure

 

 

These are excuses, not reasons. (And poor ones at that)

 

Back when the City fireworks display was setup over by Lagrave, they used to set up fencing along both sides of the trail- making it like a tunnel- so that they could keep the trail open until the time for the fireworks display itself. This was about a mile in length of fencing if you add it all up, and for a section of trail that sees maybe 10% of the traffic that Trinity Park does.

 

The Mayfest closure is excessive and unacceptable.



#30 fw_advocate

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 01:56 PM

 

Here are the reasons they must close the park for that period of time.  For what it's worth, part of the funds from Mayfest go directly to the trails and parks that make this city great.
 
https://www.mayfest....ty-park-closure


Totally lame.  They can (and used to) leave the trail open until just before the event.  But no, they have to hog the park to themselves.  Look at all the temporary infrastructure set up for the Main Street Art Fest.  If they can limit their street closures due to setup to the week just prior to the event, there's no reason why Mayfest can't do the same.  That page you linked tries to put a positive spin on it, but it makes me hate them even more.  They suck.


For bike riders headed north but having to detour through the park because of Mayfest, here's how you can re-connect to the Trails without having to travel on muddy park paths after a rain storm.  Just before the blockade on the park's south side, bike on over to University and pedal north on University about 2-tenths of a mile to Crestline Road.  Then pedal east on Crestline back into the park and take Trinity Park Drive to Cottonwood Drive, which gets you near the Trails on the park's north side just south of the Lancaster Avenue bridge.

 

A good friend of mine was hit by a car last year doing that.

 

Comparing a festival that is just 6 blocks long (and not a major thoroughfare with the closure of part of main) to a majority of trinity park is ridiculous.  Obviously you've never attended, because no one that had, would honestly think it could be done in a week while having to rely strictly on city workers and volunteers.  You seem to love the trails, but refuse to acknowledge that Mayfest directly supports those trails and the park you love as well as to Cook Children's events.  That's what I don't get.  There are a lot of people out there doing great work to try and benefit the city, and people like you just want to complain and complain.  "You suck", so all the volunteers who donate their time to this suck?  You suck my friend.  What have you done to help?

 

Hopefully once it's over, you can go back to enjoying the trails and the park and ignoring everything Mayfest does to help support them.



#31 fw_advocate

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 01:57 PM

 

 

I find it ridiculous that they take the park offline for a full month every year.  Set up the week leading up to it and tear it down the following week.  They do it that way for the Main Street Art Fest, not sure why Mayfest needs all the extra time.

Here are the reasons they must close the park for that period of time.  For what it's worth, part of the funds from Mayfest go directly to the trails and parks that make this city great.

 

https://www.mayfest....ty-park-closure

 

 

These are excuses, not reasons. (And poor ones at that)

 

Back when the City fireworks display was setup over by Lagrave, they used to set up fencing along both sides of the trail- making it like a tunnel- so that they could keep the trail open until the time for the fireworks display itself. This was about a mile in length of fencing if you add it all up, and for a section of trail that sees maybe 10% of the traffic that Trinity Park does.

 

The Mayfest closure is excessive and unacceptable.

 

 

I'm not saying it's perfect, but just wanted to provide their insight.  Some of the vendors actually set up on the physical trails.



#32 JBB

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 07:55 PM

I drove down Forest Park and Parkview on the way back from a meeting this afternoon and the only things set up between the river and and the trail are a half dozen or so banners and some life jackets on the paddle boat ramp.  As best I could see, none of the set up this far has encroached on the trail.  I've set up events for a living for the better part of the last decade and I know that compromise in the name of convenience is sometimes best.  That said, the time the trail is closed for Mayfest is extreme in my opinion.

 

Anyone else go back and read through past posts in this thread and get a chuckle at Doohickie's change of heart from 3 years ago?



#33 Volare

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 08:27 PM

Anyone else go back and read through past posts in this thread and get a chuckle at Doohickie's change of heart from 3 years ago?

 

Yes, I wonder what happened there? A few years ago he was calling me names!  :wink:


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#34 johnfwd

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Posted 27 April 2017 - 05:03 AM

Two other bicycle/pedestrian alternatives are possible.  One is to upgrade Trinity Park's interior north-south gravel/dirt path with concrete overlay, which would be a boon to bike riders and pedestrians all year long, not just during Mayfest.  I believe this could be done at minimal cost to taxpayers and would not ruin the environmental esthetics of the interior.  Another alternative is to build a bike/pedestrian trail on the east side of the river and another cross-over bridge where possible at some point farther south of the park (on the park's far north side, the pedestrian-friendly Seventh-Street bridge is already an adequate cross-over). 

 

As annual art. culture, and entertainment events, Mayfest is valued as much as the Main Street Arts Festival.  One reason I prefer the Main Street Arts Festival over Mayfest is free admission.



#35 Doohickie

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Posted 27 April 2017 - 05:45 AM

I believe the latter is in the works.  The bridge is being built alongside the Forest Park RR bridge.

 

But it's more than just the trail.  It's much of the park.  Several pavilions are out of use for the next couple weeks.  The playground is inaccessible.  This is OUR park, not Mayfest's.


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#36 johnfwd

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Posted 01 May 2017 - 06:54 AM

How do take the park back, Doohickie?



#37 JBB

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Posted 01 May 2017 - 07:00 AM

Pitch forks and torches?

#38 Doohickie

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Posted 01 May 2017 - 08:04 AM

Pitch forks and torches?

 

Maybe protests outside the event while the event is going on.


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#39 renamerusk

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Posted 01 May 2017 - 10:33 AM

I'm not feeling the burn here. 

 

For 49 out or 52 weeks of the year, the park is accessible to all.  My belief is that Mayfest is an event which supports the river, charitable organizations and encourage the vast amount of citizens to enjoy the park that otherwise do not take the time to do so during other times.

 

Perhaps it is an inconvenience to the regulars but it is also a time for family enrichment for many thousands more.



#40 Doohickie

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Posted 01 May 2017 - 02:31 PM

I'm not feeling the burn here.

Maybe that's because you don't know anyone who suffered injuries while detouring around Trinity Park while the main trail was closed.


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#41 renamerusk

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Posted 01 May 2017 - 04:10 PM

 

I'm not feeling the burn here.

Maybe that's because you don't know anyone who suffered injuries while detouring around Trinity Park while the main trail was closed.

 

 

While I don't wish injury to anyone, I do believe that compromise is in order.  I cannot imagine that the world comes to an end and injuries skyrocket because of Mayfest.  I don't think that injuries are unavoidable. When conditions are not favorable (weather-related or whatever), motorists and cyclists should all be aware of the road condition.  It seems as though the City is taking preventative actions by limiting the mixture of cyclists with people, many of whom are children and toddlers.

 

Not feeling the burn is, in other words, not being able to fully understand the outrage when the park is used for special occasions.



#42 Volare

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Posted 01 May 2017 - 04:29 PM

It's not the PARK that is the issue. It's the TRAIL.

 

A trail that due to the convergence of major highways, arterial roads, and the river is a major chokepoint for pedestrians traveling into and out of downtown.

A trail section that is the single busiest in the entire city.

A trail that doesn't run straight into the Mayfest grounds, but rather is on the eastern edge.

 

Consider a trail of another kind on the western edge of the park and Mayfest grounds. This trail travels north to south amongst the grounds and in fenced for it's entire length to allow it to remain open during the entire time of Mayfest. The trail I'm talking about? The Zoo mini-train. If we can manage to set up a fence for a commercial entity, we can certainly do the same for the single busiest section of pedestrian trail in the entire city.



#43 Doohickie

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Posted 01 May 2017 - 07:07 PM

It seems as though the City is taking preventative actions by limiting the mixture of cyclists with people, many of whom are children and toddlers.


Close the park during the actual event when there are people there? Of course.  Closing it TWO WEEKS prior to the event, and taking a week to clean up?  That's just stupid.  Main Street Art Fest doesn't need that much time.  Panther Island Pavilion doesn't need that much time.  Why does Mayfest need 3+ weeks?  It's beyond stupid.
 

not being able to fully understand the outrage when the park is used for special occasions.


It's the bicycle equivalent of closing Hulen Street (or Camp Bowie, or University) for three and a half weeks.


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#44 renamerusk

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Posted 01 May 2017 - 08:24 PM

.....Why does Mayfest need 3+ weeks?  It's beyond stupid.

 

http://fortworthtexa...-Trail-closure/



#45 John T Roberts

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Posted 01 May 2017 - 10:15 PM

Prior to 2015, I stated that I just accepted the closure and rode the crushed gravel loop trail through the park.  It was inconvenient, but it wasn't that bad at the time, and there were longer sections of crushed gravel down the West Fork.  After I rode and walked through the mud in 2015, I became aware of how that section of the trail wasn't very well maintained, and it was not very easy on a road bike.  Last year, I did not ride through the detour because Mayfest was too close to my release from the hospital and I wasn't ready to ride in those conditions.  (I actually wasn't riding at the time, at all.)  Since I am not riding much after I have recovered, and my balance is not as good as it used to be, I will just not be riding in that part of Fort Worth until the trail reopens.  In my case, it is not that bad because I live south of Downtown and tend to just head out on the Clear Fork toward Benbrook.  However, I do understand those of you who live in Oakhurst or on the East Side.  The blocking of the park does not allow you to go out toward Benbrook.



#46 Doohickie

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Posted 02 May 2017 - 08:19 AM

 

.....Why does Mayfest need 3+ weeks?  It's beyond stupid.

 

http://fortworthtexa...-Trail-closure/

 

 

That's already been posted.  To which I counter that other festivals on streets don't close the streets for nearly as long.  The explanation they provide is not adequate.  I can think of ZERO reasons why they should close the trails prior to the event itself.


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