213 replies to this topic

[John T Roberts]

Well, most of this story is something that I have been sitting on for over one year. Although not official, it is very likely that the Landmark Tower will be demolished in the coming months. I also knew that a replacement building will likely be constructed on the site at some point in time, but I never knew that it could be a 50 story building. Between the time the Landmark is demolished and the time the new building is constructed, the site will become a one block landscaped area. Also, there is a possibility that the new building will not be as tall and will be a smaller structure on the block. Any way that you look at it, this is great for Fort Worth and I'm hoping that we will soon have a new "landmark tower" at the corner of 7th and Houston.

Here's a link to the Fort Worth Star-Telegram article:
http://www.dfw.com/m...ss/11080022.htm

[John T Roberts]

I've closed the thread on what to do with the Landmark Tower over in Fort Worth Architecture to encourage discussions on this new project. What do you think? I would like to hear some comments.

[cjyoung]

Well, most of this story is something that I have been sitting on for over one year.  Although not official, it is very likely that the Landmark Tower will be demolished in the coming months.  I also knew that a replacement building will likely be constructed on the site at some point in time, but I never knew that it could be a 50 story building.  Between the time the Landmark is demolished and the time the new building is constructed, the site will become a one block landscaped area.  Also, there is a possibility that the new building will not be as tall and will be a smaller structure on the block.  Any way that you look at it, this is great for Fort Worth and I'm hoping that we will soon have a new "landmark tower" at the corner of 7th and Houston. 

Here's a link to the Fort Worth Star-Telegram article:
http://www.dfw.com/m...ss/11080022.htm

A 50 story tower would be perfect for downtown at this stage.

John, why don't you send XTO the model that you designed with the help of the forum? Seriously...do it! Speaking of the model, can you re-post the picture here?

I hope it happens.

[jefffwd]

This is a very exciting time for Fort Worth and XTO seems to be a very good corporate neighbor. I vote for the 50 story tower! Too cool!!

[fwpcman]

My guess on this is that a new building will probably be quite ways into the future. Why would they go to the trouble and expense to develope and construct a park if they were planning on building a major office building in the short term?

[Willy1]

I definitely vote for the 50 story tower. I think FW's skyline is kind of sad compared to other cities the size of FW... And I hope that the 50 story tower would have a spired top that would strech even farther into the sky... Just because a building is 50 stories, doesn't mean it can't reach the height of 60 or 70... Maybe we could have a little version of the Freedom Tower right here in FW...

John, send them your plan... How tall is the building you planned? How many stories, how tall at the point, etc?

As far as the park goes... It will take time to plan and build a building of that size so I would say XTO is just being a good neighbor by erecting a park while they figure out what to do with the site... The have so much money right now and they're really into improving downtown and building a good image for XTO... So I don't think a park really means it's going to be years before they build. Afterall, they've bought other buildings and started renovations pretty quick so far. I think their track record proves they think things through, then act quickly...

[lobster]

from FWST:
"The skyscraper started as a four-story building in 1952 before it was topped by a 26-story tower in 1957. The tower built for the now-defunct Continental National Bank was the tallest building in Fort Worth into the 1970s."

Anyone have pics of it when it was a four story bldg? That'd look kinda freaky.

[lobster]

a rooftop clock would be nice to once again have... kind of a tribute to the ol' bldg if you will... is there a modern way to have a rotating clock atop a building nowadays or is that a 60s thing?

[Willy1]

I can't wait to see what they come up with for a replacement. I like the old Landmark for sentimental reasons, but agree that it's an eyesore and needs to come down if it isn't going to be fixed up. I like the idea of replacing it with something bigger rather than smaller. Hey, if Austin is going to get a 700 foot tower than we should at least get one too....

[mrowl]

Sounds like construction could start in 2-3 years?

[AdamB]

I did a quick 10 second photo shop to see what downtown would look like with a 50 story building. It will be really interesting to see a modern building in the center of FW especially if it has a good lighting scheme.

[Willy1]

Does anyone still have the pic of FW with John's tower in place of the Landmark Tower? That would be a good pic for this thread.

[Willy1]

Okay, on the news tonight there is all sorts of coverage of the new 17 story building that broke ground today in downtown Dallas... but not a peep about the possibility of FW getting a new 50 story tower from XTO... Hmmm....

There was also an article a couple weeks ago about FW still being a "boom town"... in that article it mentioned that everyone was going to be surprised by some of the very big developments that were going to be coming out of FW in 2005. I hope there are more announcements similar to the possible 50 story XTO building just around the corner. How cool if the FW skyline were to suddenly transform into something much larger than it is now in the next year or two.

[Urbndwlr]

Bravo for XTO for their bold leadership. While I'm bullish on Downtown, I can't figure out how they'll justify the extra space. If XTO has 600 employees, they would need roughly 200,000 square feet of office space to house them unless there are other special needs that require more space.

A 50 story building would probably have about 1.1 million square feet of office space, or about 9% of the total office inventory Downtown. Two things that could help them get to 50 stories with less office space: counting parking floors stacked below office, and adding other uses (residential).

If XTO leased 12 floors at 22,000 SF per floor, that's 264,000 SF. If they put another 250,000 SF or so of speculative space on the market, that gets them to about 24 floors total (plus 8 floors parking = 32). Add 18 floors of condos in smaller floorplates higher up, and you get up to 50. Maybe that's what they have planned.

I wonder what design architect they will hire.

[safly]

Do the plans call for a M-Use design. Part XTO, part residence? I am very interested in what is to be unveiled in the coming weeks. I certainly hope that a parking garage (5 level) is in the works too. XTO only needs about 10-15 floors to operate in. Where can I send in a rendering for this project to?

[John T Roberts]

There is so much to reply to here, I will try to do as much as I can.

Cjyoung: "John, why don't you send XTO the model that you designed with the help of the forum? Seriously...do it! Speaking of the model, can you re-post the picture here?"

OK. Safly, I'm sure you will pick this design to pieces, so here it goes.
Day:


Night:


Willy1: "John, send them your plan... How tall is the building you planned? How many stories, how tall at the point, etc?"

It is 48 stories and 800 feet to the top of the spire. It is about 650 feet to the base of the spire.

Lobster: "Anyone have pics of it when it was a four story bldg? That'd look kinda freaky."

I may have a small one. I will have to look. I will post one later if I can find it. However, I have seen a large one and I know where to find it if anyone is interested in tracking it down. The UTA Special Collections has a print on display. I think it is in the W.D. Smith Collection. If it is not there, it is in either the Jack White or Star-Telegram collection. For those of you who went to Brownwood, my friend from HFW would be willing to assist you.

Lobster: "a rooftop clock would be nice to once again have... kind of a tribute to the ol' bldg if you will... is there a modern way to have a rotating clock atop a building nowadays or is that a 60s thing?"

Well, it is definitely a 60s thing, but it could be done. However, all kinds of variances would have to be sought. A sign similar to the old one does not meet the city's sign ordinance.

Urbndwlr: "I wonder what design architect they will hire."

Carter+Burgess have done all of their architectural work up until this point. The S-T stated that they are currently studying the project. XTO may hire a design architect, but they may just stick with Carter+Burgess to do the entire project.

Safly: "Do the plans call for a M-Use design. Part XTO, part residence? I am very interested in what is to be unveiled in the coming weeks. I certainly hope that a parking garage (5 level) is in the works too. XTO only needs about 10-15 floors to operate in. Where can I send in a rendering for this project to?"

We don't really know any specifics for this project. Only time will tell us what they are planning. If I ask my friends, they will tell me; however, I won't be able to tell you. If you want to drop your design off, XTO is just one block north of you on Houston, or you could take it to Carter+Burgess, their building has their name on it.

[safly]

Still waiting for John to "shed some light" on Redheads post #42 on the locked-out discussion about the Landmark Tower.

[safly]

John, I am totally amazed, me LIKEY!

It really kicks butt, very similiar to my plans, but better detail.
The light/shadowing is a must, very inspiring.
don't agree with the lack of street level common areas
would call for more tier leveled walkabouts in the higher 1/2 of the building
My design sports a covered 2 story walking area on the street level, with casts of lights from the ceiling around the perimeter of the building, they will cast the names of notable FW'ians of numerous fields of achievement on the walkpath brick.
Your pic is reminescent of a very popular Chicago skyscraper. Maybe a bit of Empire State building in NYC.
This town should really utilize your vision.
Hands down this is my favorite pic on this site.
Any other ones you would like to share?
GREAT JOB!

[John T Roberts]

OK, I will try to shed some light on Redhead's post #42 on the locked discussion of the Landmark Tower.

What I understood was that the old B1 Tower was originally deemed fixable, and Reata persued their repairs with that assurance. Then, another report said the building was beyond engineering repair and was placed up for sale, and sold to a Bass entitiy. It sold, and then the building was deemed fixable and I never understood how...maybe John can shed light.  Or my timeline may be out of order...it's kind of blurry....

Structurally, the building was always sound. So it could have been fixed. Where the determination of "unfixable" was made was probably due to cost, bringing the building up to current codes, and converting it back to office space. The building, in an office configuration was very inefficient. The conversion to residential seems to have been able to offset the lack of functionality as office space. That is my answer in very brief form. When first questions came up on whether they might tear it down, I did some very rough cost estimates of repairing vs. demolition and then estimates of how much could be generated if the building were leased (office or residential), a parking lot in its place, or a new building built. The most cost effective solution was to repair the building.

Safly, I'm pleased that you liked the building. It could always be tweaked, but it utilized the base for parking; thus, the full extent of the block being taken up by it. I really don't have any other designs to show. Putting all of this information in the computer for it to draw the 3D model is very time consuming.

[JBB]

Would XTO take part of the space in a building as a replacement for their existing space or as a supplement? It seems to me that they already have quite a bit of space downtown, but is that space completely occupied? I'm excited about this new prospect, but I'm being cautiously optimistic. I wouldn't be at all surprised if this doesn't move forward for another 5 years or so or if it ends up resulting in something significantly smaller than 50 stories. In this day and age, are developers willing to take a risk with speculative office space?

[DrkLts]

Before I get my hopes too high on the 50 story tower, could it just be media hype? Sounds too good to be true

[normanfd]

For an understanding of the collaboration that went in to John's design, refer to the thread on the old forum:

http://p196.ezboard....topicID=2.topic

Unfortunately, I had not yet discovered the forum when the thread was active.

I think that XTO's proposal for a 50-story tower is exciting! Furthermore, I think that the lack of supply and reasonable expectations of pricing for prime office space Downtown make this project very feasible--especially if parking, retail, and residential are considered as part of the structure.

Most of all, I appreciate XTO's commitment to Downtown and its historic properties. The renovations made on the Baker, Waggoner, and Executive Plaza building convince me that this company appreciates good architecture and that Landmark's replacement will be something more than just a glass box. I feel confident that they will build something the city can be proud of.

[Urbndwlr]

I sincerely hope they hire a design architect to use in addition to C+B. Carter Burgess does not have a legacy of good architectural design - much more of a legacy of utilitarian architectural and engineering work. I don't know this for sure, however I doubt they have the creative talent in-house to produce a sophisticated design. The Cash America Intn't Building is not an attractive design, so hopefully that doesn't speak to their abilities.

Local and regional firms who appear more equipped to handle the design work: Lake + Flato, Page Southerland Page, GideonToal, Nelson Architects.

[tcole]

This project could get off the ground faster than some of you assume. Consider that Class A space in downtown is 97% leased and that rates at CC are approaching north of $25/sf. I cannot remember the BE rate for new construction (20+) stories, but seem to remember that it is somewhere between 25 and 28 (Andrew needs to come back and help me some). If XTO intends to fill 40% of a 50 story structure, that yields 30 more stories. So really, their "spec" cost is constructing a 30 story building and not the full 50. FW's class A market demand just about supports that from a borrowing standpoint. The difference with XTO (as opposed to why P1 or RS did not "overbuild"), is one of FCF and cash on hand. XTO very well could build the structure with current assets or at the very least utilizing only bridge debt.

[tcole]

And 'dweller:

I agree with your point about hiring a design architect. My suspicion is that if the leadership over at XTO is going to construct a signature building, they are going to hire a signature architect to design it.

[Urbndwlr]

New idea - they really should talk to Cesar Pelli and Assoc. That firm has a legacy of designing stately, signature high rises and hq buildings.

My favorites they've done: Bank of America (Charlotte), Wells Fargo (Min), 777 Tower (LA), 181 West Madison (NYC). Check out their site - the WF (2nd from right) and BofA buildings are under "headquarters" and the others under highrise office.

http://www.cesar-pelli.com/flash.cfm

[JBB]

I really like the WF and BofA buildings. Something similar would be a great fit in the DT skyline.

tcole, Thanks for shedding a little light on the market and finance side of things. That clears up some of the questions I had about the feasibility of XTO building something like this.

[Shocker]

New idea - they really should talk to Cesar Pelli and Assoc.  That firm has a legacy of designing stately, signature high rises and hq buildings. 

My favorites they've done: Bank of America (Charlotte), Wells Fargo (Min), 777 Tower (LA), 181 West Madison (NYC).  Check out their site - the WF (2nd from right) and BofA buildings are under "headquarters" and the others under highrise office. 

http://www.cesar-pelli.com/flash.cfm

I checked out some of their work and thier office buildings are all so beautiful it's difficult to pick out a favorite. I could easily see many of those in downtown. Also, picture some of those on the banks of the Trinity in a few years. Cooooool.

[RD Milhollin]

Well, my take on the news regarding the CNB Building (sorry, I never got my mind wrapped around Texas Bldg. or Landmark Tower) is mixed.

On the one hand, I have memories of the tower as by far the tallest building in Fort Worth, and visible from the far-off stretches on Wedgewood due to the magnificent revolving clock/sign on top. The shiny metal exterior was modernistic and looking up at it from street level, especially as a kid, was awe-inspiring.

I realize the problems the building has faced, the schemes to renovate, convert, or otherwise re-use the tower that have all fallen through, and virtual rape of vital elements by the previous owner. It seems that with a more fortuitous set of circumstances the old dame could have had a renaissance like the octagonal Fort Worth National Bank building, oops, sorry, Bank One, er, ... I mean The Tower had. I will be sorry to see it go.

On the other hand, judging by the loving care that XTO has taken with the other significant downtown buildings it owns, I have to accept that their facilities management people have probably looked at every angle of how the building might have been saved and integrated into their office complex. If they concluded that the best use of the property would be to demolish the tower, so be it, just do it as quickly and as painlessly as possible. The possibility of constructing a 50 story tower on that prime, central site would be in it's own way a tribute to the legacy of the former CNB.

I really hope those same management people have peeked at the drawing of a proposed skyscraper John Roberts imaged based on ideas and feedback of members of this forum. With the right attention to details, such a building would fit in nicely with the restored office structures XTO now occupies, and with the high occupancy rate downtown such a plan might be perfectly feasable in the near future.

I am not as zealous a proponent of dense highrises as I once might have been, having considered quality of life and transportation issues that accompany TOO HIGH a concentration of people in one place. But I do believe that Fort Worth is due for some new office/mixed use construction in the near term. A new tower in the XTO complex might allow space for employees who wish to live downtown and work across the street, I am sure there are people like that, maybe luxury apartments that could be offered as perks to key personnel.

Prairie Pup

[mosteijn]

A 50 story building? In Fort Worth? No, they must have the wrong city. A 50 story building belongs in a progressive city, this one aint it.

I'm looking forward to that great midrise XTO is going to end up building!

[John T Roberts]

It seems apparent to me that from the comments they made, considering the amout of space they currently occupy, and their growth rate, they would lease out portions of their new building to other companies.

[renamerusk]

New idea - they really should talk to Cesar Pelli and Assoc.  That firm has a legacy of designing stately, signature high rises and hq buildings. 

Great site and I definitely like their projects. Here is my favorite CP&A project; Carneige Hall Tower, New York. Something very similar to it would be awesome in the burgeoning XTO Center! Love the texturing and color.

http://www.emporis.c...l/im/?id=136233

For a closer look: CP&A; category "office buildings"; Carneige Tower

http://www.cesar-pelli.com/flash.cfm



"Keep Fort Worth Folksy"

[normanfd]

New idea - they really should talk to Cesar Pelli and Assoc.  That firm has a legacy of designing stately, signature high rises and hq buildings. 

Great site and I definitely like their projects. Here is my favorite CP&A project; Carneige Hall Tower, New York. Something very similar to it would be awesome in the burgeoning XTO Center! Love the texturing and color.

http://www.emporis.c...l/im/?id=136233

For a closer look: CP&A; category "office buildings"; Carneige Tower

http://www.cesar-pelli.com/flash.cfm



"Keep Fort Worth Folksy"

Funny, that was the building that most caught my eye, too. I thought it was one of their most attractive.

I enjoyed the website, despite my feeling they should shoot their web developer. They do themselves a disservice building their site with Macromedia Flash instead of jjust plain simple HTML + CSS. Search engines can't index it, and dial-up customers will give up long before the pages finish building. Very bad web design. They could achieve the same effects with just a few JavaScripts and be much more accessible.

[mrowl]

Funny, that was the building that most caught my eye, too. I thought it was one of their most attractive.

I enjoyed the website, despite my feeling they should shoot their web developer. They do themselves a disservice building their site with Macromedia Flash instead of jjust plain simple HTML + CSS. Search engines can't index it, and dial-up customers will give up long before the pages finish building. Very bad web design. They could achieve the same effects with just a few JavaScripts and be much more accessible.

they have code built in to go to html if flash is not present, and that is searchable.

and get used to it, with the latest java decisions, flash will be used more and more...

[Sam Stone]

Johnny, there's nothing inherently "progressive" about tall buildings. Take Downtown Dallas. They outskyscraper us by a lot, but who really has the better downtown? Detroit has an impressive skyline, but have you seen RenCen at street level? Or even NY. For every Empire State Building there are a hundred indistinguishable boxes, and the most livable parts of the city are not where the skyscrapers are.

OK OK, that said, I was very excited to hear about XTO's possible plans. These guys are my heroes for what they've done with the Waggoner and Baker Buildings. I trust whatever they build on the Landmark Tower lot will be of quality. A 50 story Cesar Pelli tower would be awesome. His work has a lot more integrity than some other star architects like Gehry or Liebskind.

[cjyoung]

New idea - they really should talk to Cesar Pelli and Assoc.  That firm has a legacy of designing stately, signature high rises and hq buildings. 

My favorites they've done: Bank of America (Charlotte), Wells Fargo (Min), 777 Tower (LA), 181 West Madison (NYC).  Check out their site - the WF (2nd from right) and BofA buildings are under "headquarters" and the others under highrise office. 

http://www.cesar-pelli.com/flash.cfm

I have been an advocate for a 777 Tower replica in Fort Worth, since seeing the building in 1992. It would be perfect in downtown.

John's tower is a close second.

777 Tower Information

[cjyoung]

For an understanding of the collaboration that went in to John's design, refer to the thread on the old forum:

http://p196.ezboard....topicID=2.topic

The forum was different back then. What happened to Andrew, Bill, and Kevin?

[renamerusk]

If XTO did go with a 50 story building, would it be just for their company or would they lease out portions of it to other companies?

How about this idea?

Convert WTWaggoner into a hotel (Hotel Waggoner); Baker and Executive into Apartments/Condominiums..XTO and ChemLime share the proposed building.

I am soooooo pumped about this news!!!!

"Keep Fort Worth Folksy!"

[tcole]

not a bad idea rename. Even if the buildings were maintained as office, there exists a good demand for class B+/A- spaces.

CJ:

As far as I know, Andrew is staking out his prospects in the RE industry in SFO. I still see Bill around from time to time but have really never approached him as to why he no longer posts. I would bet that he lurks from time to time though.

[cjyoung]

not a bad idea rename.  Even if the buildings were maintained as office, there exists a good demand for class B+/A- spaces.

CJ:

As far as I know, Andrew is staking out his prospects in the RE industry in SFO.  I still see Bill around from time to time but have really never approached him as to why he no longer posts.  I would bet that he lurks from time to time though.

Thanks.

[cjyoung]

How about this idea?

Convert WTWaggoner into a hotel (Hotel Waggoner); Baker and Executive into Apartments/Condominiums..XTO and ChemLime share the proposed building.

I am soooooo pumped about this news!!!!

"Keep Fort Worth Folksy!"

It makes perfect sense.

[grow_smart]

...These guys are my heroes for what they've done with the Waggoner and Baker Buildings.  I trust whatever they build on the Landmark Tower lot will be of quality.  A 50 story Cesar Pelli tower would be awesome.  His work has a lot more integrity than some other star architects like Gehry or Liebskind.

At least they give back some of their profits related to the inflated price of energy to the community in the form of urban redevelopment! I can't wait to pay $200 power bills and $2.50/gallon for gas! As long as I get to look at a 50-story building, all is well, right?

[lobster]

At least they give back some of their profits related to the inflated price of energy to the community in the form of urban redevelopment!  I can't wait to pay $200 power bills and $2.50/gallon for gas!  As long as I get to look at a 50-story building, all is well, right?

It's all very simple: Move downtown, get a job downtown, sell your car, look out at the fancy 50 story bldg out your window, everyone's happy.

(It must take us about 3 weeks to go through a tank of gas..)

[John T Roberts]

The Fort Worth Star-Telegram's Bob Ray Sanders is all for the new tower. Read his column at: http://www.dfw.com/m...rs/11109498.htm

[mosteijn]

Johnny, there's nothing inherently "progressive" about tall buildings.  Take Downtown Dallas.  They outskyscraper us by a lot, but who really has the better downtown?

Ok, so Fort Worth got the head-start on downtown revitilization, but that's not going to last long considering what Dallas is doing with urban renewal. Pretty soon, not only will downtown Dallas outskyscraper us, but it'll also out-EVERYTHING us too. Can't wait. "Fort Worth: The town just west of Dallas."

But you're right, maybe I should have used "exciting" or "bustling" instead of progressive.

I'll believe this 50 story tower when I see it.

[grow_smart]

I'll believe this 50 story tower when I see it. 

Good to see you're getting cynical with age Jonny...by the time your 24, you'll be out on your rooftop patio waving your fists at cars driving too fast through your 'new urban' neighborhood...

[safly]

Johnny's angst is worth exploring. He is our future here in FW. The 777 building on Figueroa St. is legit. When you can light up the LA skyline views from USC or the 105 to 110 on ramp, you know you mean business. That place is FULL of retail, constant foot traffic/business. 777, based on notoriety, has my vote. Always worth exploring other designs though.

[safly]

Nakanoshima Mitsui building in Osaka would kick butt here! Either placed along the TrinityR, or better yet where the existing Landmark Tower stands, placed at an angle from NE to SW. For sunset aesthetics of course. Or at any other block but with the same directional angled foundation. Perhaps with a topped helix twist on the top 5 floors at both ends.

[mosteijn]

I'll believe this 50 story tower when I see it. 

Good to see you're getting cynical with age Jonny...by the time your 24, you'll be out on your rooftop patio waving your fists at cars driving too fast through your 'new urban' neighborhood...

Huh? What the hell is that supposed to mean?

And I'm sorry to jefffwd for having a hard time accepting reality. Downtown Dallas is already estimated to have more people than downtown Fort Worth, and there are more units u/c & in the works there than here. I don't like it any more than you do, but it's the plain and simple truth, and it irks me that people continue to think of Fort Worth being so far ahead of Dallas. They are LIGHT YEARS ahead of us in urban renewal, I'm sorry. Maybe if Fort Worthians understood this, there would be a bigger push to get more urban developments going...

And also don't get me wrong, I would LOVE to see a 50 story tower downtown, but that would be such a huge accomplishment for Fort Worth that it makes me skeptical. I hope my pessimism turns out to be unfounded, but I'd really be happy with anything built there aside from parking, even a city park.