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#1 jefffwd

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Posted 21 December 2004 - 11:10 AM

Seems the New York Times doesn't exactly have the same lovefest with Dallas that they seem to have with Fort Worth.

News story not what Dallas had in mind :smwink:

11:28 PM CST on Monday, December 20, 2004

By BRAD WATSON / WFAA-TV

The people trying to remake Dallas' image have been seeking coverage in national publications. They got some Monday in The New York Time s, but the article is not what they were hoping for.

The Dallas Convention and Visitors Bureau has launched a new marketing campaign/ The theme is "Live large, think big." But an article in The New York Times Monday described Dallas as a city of big mistakes.

The Times declared, "Dallas, a city of middle-aged woes that still likes to think of itself as young, seems adrift."

"From a public relations perspective, I don't think we would have pitched it quite that way," the DCVB's Phillip Jones said.

A DCVB video created to attract tourists and conventioneers shows Dallas as a city of many cultures and lots of things to do. The Times, instead, centered on controversies stretching back more than a year and a half.

The article noted Dallas has the highest crime rate among big cities. It also mentioned the firing of Police Chief Terrell Bolton and the forced resignation of City Manager Ted Benavides. The paper pointed out that Dallas couldn't land the Cowboys new stadium, that the city is losing convention business to Houston, and has fallen behind San Antonio to become the third biggest city in Texas.

The Times called Mayor Laura Miller "polarizing." "Well, they highlighted some of the disappointments we've had this year and said the city was restless for change," the mayor responded.

The Times did give the city credit for developing the Trinity River.

The DCVB believes the city's image will improve in 2005 with $1.2 million in advertising -- that's twice as much as it spent in 2004. "A lot of people have a very dated perception of Dallas," Jones said. "One of the things we need to do is tell them the story of all the new, positive things happening."

The DVCB made an ad buy this month that turns out to be a perfectly-timed counterpunch. The ABC Jumbotron will show the Dallas video Dec. 30 through Jan. 2, in New York's Times Square.

HERE IS THE ARTICLE... (ouch!)

The Heady Days of J. R. and Landry Are History in Humbled Dallas

By RALPH BLUMENTHAL

Published: December 20, 2004

DALLAS, Dec. 15 - The losing Cowboys are fixing to defect again, the police chief and city manager were shown the door, a 350-pound gorilla made his own grand exit, and the hometown daily, former employer of the ex-reporter now ensconced in City Hall, is pinning Pulitzer Prize hopes on a pitiless exposé of everything gone wrong.

It has been that kind of year for Big D, Texas's second biggest - oops, third biggest - city; San Antonio gained a 6,000-person edge to slip in with just over 1.2 million, behind Dallas's longtime archrival, Houston.

"You know, I didn't like it," said Mayor Laura Miller, a once-fearsome investigative reporter who, as ex-colleagues joke, went over to the dark side. "I liked saying we're the eighth largest city in the nation. I don't like saying ninth."

The news hasn't been all bad, as Ms. Miller, 46, is quick to point out, reciting highlights of a $1.2 billion project - second biggest in the city's history (after the Dallas-Fort Worth Airport) and one she originally opposed - to create a new roadway, designer bridges and urban recreation area 10 times the size of Central Park along a derelict Trinity River that now regularly floods.

And she said, "I resent it when The Dallas Morning News says I fumbled the ball" just because the Cowboys, looking for favorable terms, are negotiating for a new football stadium in Arlington, having abandoned Dallas's historic Cotton Bowl in 1971 for fancier quarters in Irving. "I didn't want to play ball," she said.

But the tone may have been set in March when Jabari, a 13-year-old western lowland gorilla, apparently managed a flying leap over a 14-foot-wall at the Dallas Zoo and ran amok, mauling a toddler and his mother and a third visitor before being shot dead by the police.

The next month, The Morning News published a special 20-page section, "Dallas at the Tipping Point," a collaboration between a reporting team and consultants from Booz Allen Hamilton, examining every major parameter of city life and concluding: "Dallas calls itself 'the city that works.' Dallas is wrong." Dallas, it found, was a city in crisis, "and City Hall seems not to know."

Mayor Miller disputed the last part - "We're not in denial" - and said she didn't care for the lurid cover artwork depicting a storm over the city. But in all, she said, "It wasn't wrong."

Meanwhile, at Founders Plaza, a few steps from the haunting site of the Kennedy assassination, which remains Dallas's top tourist attraction, the county is considering moving the crude cedar cabin that may or may not have belonged to the city's first settler, John Neely Bryan, but that long seemed a remnant of Dallas's rugged pioneer past.

The city was humbled in other ways as well, watching sourly as conventioneers thronged Houston's budding entertainment district while Dallas struggled to begin a master plan study and select a flagship hotel for its own convention hopes, which it did at its final City Council meeting of the year on Wednesday, giving a provisional go-ahead to a developer for a 1,000-room Marriott. (In fairness, the Dallas Convention and Visitors Bureau may have been distracted, some of its executives having been found earlier wooing clients at topless bars.)

Based largely on a wave of property crimes, Dallas once again leads the F.B.I.'s list of high-crime big cities this year. Efforts to cope with a growing homeless population by making it illegal to take a shopping cart off the property of the store it belongs to did not solve the problem, but instead produced bizarre fleets of cannibalized baby strollers and shopping carts. The dramatically slanted City Hall that attracted architectural plaudits when it was completed in 1978 has become a magnet for derelicts.

Dallas officials also spent part of the year trying to figure out how a handful of police narcotics informants were able to plant some 330 kilograms of gypsum and other harmless substances on 30 innocents, mostly Spanish-speaking immigrants, to frame them on drug charges in 2001.

The scandal wounded Police Chief Terrell Bolton, a 24-year department veteran and an African-American. He was eventually fired in August, but not fast enough for an angry Mayor Miller. She and the City Council forced the retirement of the city manager, Ted Benavides, leaving the mayor and 14 other Council members a clearer field to attack each other, with racial tensions bubbling just below the surface. Mr. Bolton is now suing the city.

If it seems at times like Southfork, home of the feuding Ewing clan that enlivened the long-running television serial "Dallas," the action may only be getting started. Amid widespread dissatisfaction over pervasive problems from crime to education to development, a petition drive is aimed at putting a revolutionary change in city government to the voters in May.

The measure would create Dallas's first "strong mayor" government, replacing a system often described as weak-weak-weak - a weak mayor, weak city manager and weak City Council, imposed by a federal judge in 1990 as a remedy for the city's historic disregard of democratic niceties. Currently, the mayor is the only citywide elected official, presiding over a Council of 14 other members who are elected from neighborhood districts, some largely black, others predominately Hispanic and white.

The Council hires the city manager, who carries out policy - and need only please a majority of eight, not necessarily including the mayor. Meanwhile, the mayor, the only one elected to represent the whole city, is all but powerless to govern without a consensus, a challenge in the city's historically fractious racial and political climate.

Dallas's last mayor, Ron Kirk, the first African-American to hold the office, left it in 2002 to run what became a losing campaign for the United States Senate and is now a candidate to head the Democratic National Committee. As mayor, he was known for building coalitions and ending what he called City Hall's "blame game."

But the same success has often eluded Ms. Miller, who is white and filled Mr. Kirk's seat first in a special election and then won a four-year term of her own until 2007. She remains a polarizing figure saddled with the enemies she made as an investigative reporter, particularly as a columnist for The Dallas Observer, a freewheeling alternative weekly.

"One thing I did I can't change is I wrote about lots of people," she said, citing several black community figures she accused of wrongdoing. "There were no sacred cows," she said. One of them is now a regular visitor at Council meetings, denouncing her.

Ms. Miller credits her husband, Steve Wolens, who spent 24 years as a Democratic representative in the Texas House before retiring last December, with helping her understand the difference between journalism and politics.

"When you're a journalist, you're pure, you see things in black and white, you don't understand gray any more," Ms. Miller said. But as a politician, she said, she has learned to compromise and temper her famously sharp tongue, at least sometimes. As one visitor who once overheard her venting in a City Hall elevator said, "I've never heard anyone who looks like that talk like that."

Yet with all of that, Dallas, a city of middle-aged woes that still likes to think of itself as young, seems adrift. One remedy sparking debate is to give the mayor, or her successors, some real power.

The latest flashpoint is the petition drive, which collected 30,332 signatures and needed only 20,000 - to force the "strong mayor" measure onto the city ballot in May. The Council spent much of Wednesday's meeting trying to figure out ways of challenging the signatures, which need to be certified by the city secretary by Dec. 23.

"I think people want a discussion," said Mary Suhm, the acting city manager and a longtime municipal employee. "City services need to be revamped."

Darwin Payne, a historian, author and professor emeritus of journalism at Southern Methodist University in Dallas, said the time was ripe for change. "People in Dallas are grasping for anything that would work," he said.

#2 UrbanLandscape

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Posted 21 December 2004 - 11:53 AM

Weren't they just attacking Houston a few months ago? I'm looking through this article, and quite frankly, a paper from New York City really doesn't have any room to talk on well over half the issues.

#3 David Love

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Posted 22 December 2004 - 04:25 PM

I think Dallas creates much of its own bad press; you have a city government segmented by ethnic boundaries each looking out for their own interests regardless of the outcome for the city. Every other day their bickering is on the evening news… seems to me that if they took half of that 1.2 billion and spent it on city support, the police and reserve police departments, a clean safe city would generate enough buzz and free press that an advertising blitz wouldn’t be necessary.

As for the NYT article; “You never have as many friends as you think and far more enemies than you realize.” Or “Friends come and go but enemies last a lifetime.” Sounds more like a past career peer or peon taking a cheap shot… or a battered city trying to build itself up by bad mouthing their competition.

I think the city council should be given a gag order, if they could keep the petty negative stuff out of the news their advertising budget could be much less. Perhaps enact some type of “forced arbitration” to settle their arguments instead of taking things to the press.

#4 cjyoung

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Posted 23 December 2004 - 10:39 AM

:lol: :D :roflol:

#5 RD Milhollin

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Posted 23 December 2004 - 11:23 AM

Like it or not bad press, especially of this magnitude, reflects not just on the City of Dallas but on all surrounding areas, including Fort Worth and Tarrant County. The rest of the country probably sees little distinction between the city itself and the metropolitan area, and wrongly attributes all that is "wrong with Dallas" to the area in general. Dallas has shown remarkable initiative throughout its history, and has risen to national prominence as a center of trade and fashion. All this in spite of the PR disaster of 1963. Dallas needs change, but it looks to me as if that is something it has been good at in the past, and is likely to accomplish again. Don't count Dallas out of the game. Look for innovative decisions to help pull the city out of the situation they find themselves in now. The area needs a strong Dallas if we are all going to prosper.

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#6 2112

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Posted 29 December 2004 - 01:56 PM

Weren't they just attacking Houston a few months ago?  I'm looking through this article, and quite frankly, a paper from New York City really doesn't have any room to talk on well over half the issues.

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It is healthier to be humbled and then pick one's self up and start making things right. To dismiss this NYC article outright is just a form of denial, which will only delay the repair process Dallas is in dire need of. These things take time, and one must face up to the music now to get started.

Trust me, I know the feeling. Being a Houstonian has meant being constantly ridiculed over and over and over again, for years. At some point, you become immune, and expect it. Today, many things have changed for Houston, and for the better. But these transformations only happened after making WHOLESALE changes and huge investments in infrastrucuture...by people with the gall, balls, and audacity (and tons of money) to make it so. The city still has problems, and they are being addressed, but also with the knowledge that it will take time.

These articles are good for Dallas.

#7 ghughes

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Posted 03 January 2005 - 11:09 AM

Like it or not bad press, especially of this magnitude, reflects not just on the City of Dallas but on all surrounding areas, including Fort Worth and Tarrant County. The rest of the country probably sees little distinction between the city itself and the metropolitan area, and wrongly attributes all that is "wrong with Dallas" to the area in general.

Yup, Pup, that's true.

With the absence of any hard-hitting and rational investigations from outside their City Halls, how do Dallasites and Fort Worthians know what level of rot might be in the basements? Neither hometown daily gets below the superficial (not that the NYT does much beyond a summary of the latest news) so both cities can just bumble along with their own problems, all the time pointing to the other and saying, "at least we aren't like that!"

New arrivals choose the suburbs, where there is even less information.

#8 redhead

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Posted 03 January 2005 - 09:55 PM

I think you have to look at the NYT's timing. First they publish a very negative article about Dallas, and only DAYS later publish a glowing article about Fort Worth---saying that we are coming out of the shadows. Read between the lines: I think their editorial staff is much more savvy than we give them credit for. I actually thnk that the NYT editorial board is making Fort Worth's case! Personally, I found it ironic since I buy the NYT while I am on the road, and had bought the "slam Dallas" isue, only to find the glowing report about our fair city a few days later. I personally think the timing---as well as the captions--were quite intentional.

#9 John T Roberts

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Posted 03 January 2005 - 10:31 PM

Redhead, I have to agree with you. I thought the same thing after comparing the two articles.

#10 Now in Denton

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Posted 14 August 2005 - 04:10 PM

Redhead, I have to agree with you.  I thought the same thing after comparing the two articles.

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Yea but its not over till its over. Dallas in mho is fare from out but could go either way. Anybody looking from outside will wonder why they didnt land thier namesake beloved Cowboys that says a whole lot.

And Either way you look at the Wright amendment for or againt you have to wonder what a business man has to think when Dallas didnt keep thier word about closeing Love Field? So why should I expect them to keep thier word now and in the future?

#11 safly

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Posted 14 August 2005 - 08:33 PM

Anybody looking from outside will wonder why they didnt land thier namesake beloved Cowboys that says a whole lot.


I, IMHO, think that the location of the beloved Dallas Cowboys stadium makes very little difference to the common NYT paper reader or inbound tourist. They are still in TX and in our "metroplex", which is Dallas in any case to the outside world. There are plenty of teams who do not play in their namesake town, all about the money in pro sports. Dallas still has plenty of shine to it's kink in the armor. This story could have easily been adapted to our dear town-city of FW.
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#12 Now in Denton

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Posted 15 August 2005 - 11:43 AM

Anybody looking from outside will wonder why they didnt land thier namesake beloved Cowboys that says a whole lot.


I, IMHO, think that the location of the beloved Dallas Cowboys stadium makes very little difference to the common NYT paper reader or inbound tourist. They are still in TX and in our "metroplex", which is Dallas in any case to the outside world. There are plenty of teams who do not play in their namesake town, all about the money in pro sports. Dallas still has plenty of shine to it's kink in the armor. This story could have easily been adapted to our dear town-city of FW.

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I very much disagree with you. Metroplex and New York are like night and day. Fair Park almost cry's for the Cowboy stadium to be built there. The infill between our Metroplex and Infill of New York are very different.

Plus Cowboys and Dallas are like left and right lungs . Other teams are not like the Cowboys. Were the "The Dallas Cowboys" Will play says alot, a whole lot. Economic impact is something else. Were they play says alot about Dallas or rather where they will not be playing. Arlington has spent million to land low paying jobs for teen's and college student's. You want fries with that? :D

#13 safly

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Posted 15 August 2005 - 03:09 PM

I still do not see your point. The NE Pat's play in Foxboro. Washington Skins do not play in DC. NY Yankees play in Bronx. NY Mets play in Flushing. Look, if you or millions of NFL fans have not known by now that them Boys played in Irving, TX since the last Landryeneum, well then some people need to get on board with what has been the latest craze in Major Sports marketing. Get the smaller towns to pay for it to be built and attended by. These teams don't have to sell their field-towns, their field-towns sell them. I can only think of a worthy handful who actually play in their respective namesake towns that are big market. L.A Dodgers, Spurs, S.F Giants-9ers, Boston Red Sox, Chicago Cubs, Bears and White Sox, Oakland Raiders, the Tampa Bay Bucs and Rays, and St. Louis CARDS/RAMS. OK, so I have big hands. Other teams from smaller markets are not known to many at all. This does not reflect badly on Dallas in any way. D-town still sports the best hotels and shopping in this part of TX, an AA center and Victory Arts Project, not to mention an already rowdy nightlife (during RRiver Shootout time) to boot. Oh, and the State Fair o Texas. Meanwhile, FW still owns that sorry excuse for a crash landed ET ship/Roswell remake on Main and 9th. I'm sorry, but I don't see the same kind of people or numbers of people attending the Will Rodgers area, than the Kennedy Memorial area. By the Cowboys movin into Arlington, it will of course help the Cowboys get the funding they had hoped for, and they were never ever willing to leave Texas, unlike them Cardinals who left to AZ, and them Lakers who headed out West. As far as I am concerned, Dallas did the right thing by not pullin the trigger and dumping a whole mess on the shoulders of their everyday taxpayer.

**Everyone in the metroplex will still get to enjoy the nearby "Dallas" Cowboys. JJ's move was pretty much like a caliber franchise team (Actually a Marketing Machine on ROIDS, Or Disney of Sports) franchise out the stadium or location/hosting RIGHTS to their franchise. A bill all footed by them Arlingtonians.

BTW, Dallas has always been a far less SPORTS Junkie town than Arlington. We don't really support the NHL and NBA teams all that much, especially during slumps, but them Cowboys keep selling seats, no matter what. Oh, and SMU stinks. :D

I agree with, but do not get the Metroplex to NYC comment. And I don't think that building/developing the actual stadium/project and adjacent properties will be done by low-wage earning teens. This is a much needed shot in the arm for Arlington and nearby towns and businesses.
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#14 courtnie

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Posted 15 August 2005 - 03:28 PM

I think its great I live in Fort Worth....I agree with the article...its right on the money..and actually kinda funny..hahahah :D

#15 safly

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Posted 15 August 2005 - 04:32 PM

I think its great I live in Fort Worth....I agree with the article...its right on the money..and actually kinda funny..hahahah :D

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Well, wheres the article about how our number 1 tourist site stinks to high heaven. Or how our condo market is so hot that we are aiming to demolish a close by tower for a possible parking lot. Or how the design flaw and vision of our little water fountain park in DTFW central tragically claimed the lives of some visitors from the BIGGER "Windy City". Or how a now-defunct city venture in a FW landmark (SF Rail) could not sustain even 2 years of business growth. Or how 9 CLOWNS from "the fastest growing city in the US" could not even come to the table for a stake of the world's most notable sports team in modern history. Come on Court. A little too proud maybe? :unsure:
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#16 Now in Denton

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Posted 16 August 2005 - 11:15 AM

I agree with, but do not get the Metroplex to NYC comment. And I don't think that building/developing the actual stadium/project and adjacent properties will be done by low-wage earning teens. This is a much needed shot in the arm for Arlington and nearby towns and businesses.

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[/quote]

Your longwided answer don't hold water . I know the City of Dallas is so very happy to be rid of the Cowboys ! And is so good for Dallas image. Go back and read the NYT artical again. Yea the City droped the ball (No pun) But this does not look good for Dallas . And im only talking about Dallas and not the metroplex

Cowboys will not help or hurt Fort Worth.This is about Dallas. If you want to just look at adjacent properties fine! But the is About the Cowboy stadium! all the rest is just pie in the sky. I hope for Arlington sake the boom will come after the Stadium.

Now safly do you want fries with that or not . :D

#17 safly

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Posted 16 August 2005 - 10:59 PM

Yes, I would, but hold the water please. RU Buying? <_<

Look, I sense you think that the Cowboys make or BREAK Dallas. But with your negative feelings aside, what else does Dallas have to offer? Plenty in my view, and it always has. Especially for those who have never been, which is far less than those who have never step foot in Cowtown. I see the new Cowboy stadium as a new progressive project, and not just a field and a team. They promise to give back to the community, and I certainly hope so. If they ever win the big one, you can bet that the parade will be in DTDallas for sure. Even though it should be in Arlington near the stadium. I also heard rumor that the NCAA Football H of F was looking to move at the new site.

Whatever you or the NYTimes believe Dallas has lost, it will regain and it will regain with more might than FW, Arlington, or any other metro city could dream of. I for one have high hopes for what new vision the Cowboys Org. brings to the table at their new address. FW will feed what it can, so will Dallas, so will Arlington. And the jobs created by this move will only have heightened the awareness of our great services industry, our advertising/ marketing industry, and our tourism effectiveness in the metroplex as a whole. Cha Ching! With this new heightened demand for only the finest we have to offer, a premium will be met, as demand is being met. We ALL win wherever them Boys play in the DFW Metroplex. B)

As I have stated before, this article could have been directed at FW just as easily. But first they would have to care about writing about FW. And I do agree with D-Loves post #3.

Besides, NYT has been discredited in the past, and I do not support their editorialism, especially when they take a jab at one of ours in THE GREAT Lonestar State. I see it as a "spittin at family" stunt, and I would do anything in my powers to protect my family. :ph34r: Again, NYT losing even more "street"cred, or cred in general. They should first fix up their own internal issues, before exploiting another.
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#18 hipolyte

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Posted 17 August 2005 - 07:31 AM

I'm with Safly. I enjoy a little Dallas bashing as much as the next Panther City boy, but I resent non-natives pounding on our neighbor.
A little.

#19 youngalum

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Posted 17 August 2005 - 10:30 AM

Do we really care what a guy from San Antonio thinks of Dallas or Fort Worth. One who thinks that San Antonio is slice of heaven.

Too bad it takes all million plus to equal $1 dollar in spending power. How's your other professional sports going? Oh right, you only have the Spurs, what about Major League Baseball, Fball, Soccer, Hockey. Oh, that's right, it takes $ to attend the event and 99.9% of the people in San Antonio have no $ to spend on sports.

Worry about your home town and leave us unclean heathens to defend or criticize DFW at will.

#20 Now in Denton

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Posted 17 August 2005 - 11:10 AM

Yes, I would, but hold the water please. RU Buying? <_<

Sorry I dont work here.  HAHA You feel for that one.

Look, I sense you think that the Cowboys make or BREAK Dallas. But with your negative feelings aside,

As I have stated before, this article could have been directed at FW just as easily. But first they would have to care about writing about FW. And I do agree with D-Loves post #3.

Besides, NYT has been discredited in the past, and I do not support their editorialism, especially when they take a jab at one of ours in THE GREAT Lonestar State. I see it as a "spittin at family" stunt, and I would do anything in my powers to protect my family.  :ph34r: Again, NYT losing even more "street"cred, or cred in general. They should first fix up their own internal issues, before exploiting another.

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Again your longwinded answer don't prove jack. Think man think. Dallas can do better without your so called help. Don't take it personal it's between Dallas and thier relation's with outside business. In bussiness you sell everything.

#21 rantanamo

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Posted 17 August 2005 - 07:21 PM

To have read some of the comments I would have thought the article was horrible. Not too bad at all. Funny in hindsight how NYC fumbled the Jets back to NJ and got destroyed in the Olympic vote.

If anyone thinks they have a leg to stand on, wactch some of their news broadcasts on satellite. Many of their affiliates can be picked up on satellite. I guess they are a much bigger city, so it could be expected, but they make Dallas' problems look like mosquito bites.

#22 safly

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Posted 17 August 2005 - 09:53 PM

Yes, I would, but hold the water please. RU Buying? <_<

Sorry I dont work here.  HAHA You feel for that one.

Look, I sense you think that the Cowboys make or BREAK Dallas. But with your negative feelings aside,

As I have stated before, this article could have been directed at FW just as easily. But first they would have to care about writing about FW. And I do agree with D-Loves post #3.

Besides, NYT has been discredited in the past, and I do not support their editorialism, especially when they take a jab at one of ours in THE GREAT Lonestar State. I see it as a "spittin at family" stunt, and I would do anything in my powers to protect my family.  :ph34r: Again, NYT losing even more "street"cred, or cred in general. They should first fix up their own internal issues, before exploiting another.

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Again your longwinded answer don't prove jack. Think man think. Dallas can do better without your so called help. Don't take it personal it's between Dallas and thier relation's with outside business. In bussiness you sell everything.

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WHAT HELP?

Look NID. Yer barking up some tree at an imaginary fat lazy cat. I am not sure anyone on this FORUM sees your angst, humiliating comments, or MIOPIC/MYOPIC sense towards a Dallas demise as the same views shared or something on par with others or what the Metroplex needs out of Dallas. Love it or not, every city has it's probs, including SA (there YAlum, are u :) ?) It's just that the NYT loves to start controversy and have it's name blaired out and shoved down our earholes and throats on our radio waves and TV broadcast market, all about OUR problems and shortcomings when it comes to STILL the BIGGEST player in the Metroplex. Dallas. To have the NYT write an editorial about what most people know about and even less people feel passionate or care about is editorialism at it's cheapest form. And the fact of the matter is that the NYT does not give a damn how hard they "pimp-slap" our peeps to the East. This was not even an EXPOSE of sorts, just crass commentary at it's most EXPECTED NYT JUVENILE form.

Yes, I know about business, and what you want to market and need to sell. But you are bringing to the table a bunch of capitalism-free market THEORY. But a 2 way street image can ALWAYS be forgotten, remembered, and improved upon by choice. We are a forgetful even forgiveable country most of the time. We are tought from childhood not to let things linger over, hopefully. This NYT piece has plenty of fact, but so would a piece on any other city-towns probs. It's just that Dallas is looked upon by most NYT readers/subscribers as the epitomy of Texas, BIG TEXAS. What they don't know is that BIG TEXAS doesn't fall from the likes of "city slicker" cheap shots.

Landing the Cowboys was never on the radar for Dallas. That kind of city does not need the immediate prescence of their franchise. They will bank without them. Most likely from people who do not know any better.

In SA, we have had our share of teams to stay and go. We've even had idiot CCouncil folks pay for the Boys to train here in the Summer. Paid well from what I hear. Good riddance to them, but I still remember what an impact they were when HBO did a piece on their Summer campo in SA, much props for us. And when they played in MX City. That place just blew-up with Cowboy fans. There SA mini camps in the Alamodome was just a madhouse. So the impact of their prescence was felt, and DTSA banked on that.

And Youngalum (You BUSTER!), if you ever want to go toe to toe on my hometown, just bring her. Cause I'll have to just show up with the likes of Clear Channel, Valero Energy, Pace, SRI, Tesoro, SBC, TOYOTA, and 4 MILITARY bases truckin along too. BTW, at least we have a WNBA, equal rights baby! It's all good.

So hear THIS ! :D
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#23 safly

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Posted 17 August 2005 - 10:12 PM

Do we really care what a guy from San Antonio thinks of Dallas or Fort Worth.  One who thinks that San Antonio is slice of heaven. 

Too bad it takes all million plus to equal $1 dollar in spending power.  How's your other professional sports going?  Oh right, you only have the Spurs, what about Major League Baseball, Fball, Soccer, Hockey.  Oh, that's right, it takes $ to attend the event and 99.9% of the people in San Antonio have no $ to spend on sports.

Worry about your home town and leave us unclean heathens to defend or criticize DFW at will.

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We have plenty of buying power in SA. I would also contest your million to 1 formula. Or is it just a dumbfounded baseless remark. And I think it is important that you hear from someone like me, because like it or not, more like me are populating your city and METRO every year, and will offer some valuable perspective on attaining positive growth in your neck of the woods. Before you know it, FW will grow into the size of SA, and will be similiar in the ratio of incoming transplants every year. Take that for what it is worth from the SAFLY.

BTW, how is your Tarrant County and FW city tax rate goin for you?

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#24 Now in Denton

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Posted 18 August 2005 - 09:49 AM

Look NID. Yer barking up some tree at an imaginary fat lazy cat. I am not sure anyone on this FORUM sees your angst, humiliating comments, or MIOPIC/MYOPIC sense towards a Dallas demise as the same views shared or something on par with others or what the Metroplex needs out of Dallas. ....blah blah blah ...........

And Youngalum (You BUSTER!), if you ever .....blah blah blah.........

safly.......Look up thier . I said Don't count Dallas out yet! Befor you jumped in here. Don't agree? ok let it go. Chill out.....Don't dish it out if you cant take it.

#25 hooked

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Posted 18 August 2005 - 10:24 AM

For a minute there I thought I was going to have to throw a bucket of water on you guys.

#26 courtnie

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Posted 19 August 2005 - 08:02 AM

Proud of what safly?? I could give a careless about the sports teams around here or all over for that matter..its a bunch of hooey...Dallas is in turmoil and has been for years...Fort worth just kinda sits quietly over here and does her own thing..so what if dallas has a great hot condo market..you cant walk out your door with out being mugged....I love certian things about dallas..but the one thing I do not love is the traffic.....or how it takes 500 years just to go two blocks...Its my opinion..I think that if we take everything to heart that people from other states say then weve got a problem....I mean heck..we are TEXANS....we will just kick their butts.....think about that..hahahahaha







I think its great I live in Fort Worth....I agree with the article...its right on the money..and actually kinda funny..hahahah <_<

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Well, wheres the article about how our number 1 tourist site stinks to high heaven. Or how our condo market is so hot that we are aiming to demolish a close by tower for a possible parking lot. Or how the design flaw and vision of our little water fountain park in DTFW central tragically claimed the lives of some visitors from the BIGGER "Windy City". Or how a now-defunct city venture in a FW landmark (SF Rail) could not sustain even 2 years of business growth. Or how 9 CLOWNS from "the fastest growing city in the US" could not even come to the table for a stake of the world's most notable sports team in modern history. Come on Court. A little too proud maybe? :D

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#27 Now in Denton

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Posted 19 August 2005 - 11:07 AM

For a minute there I thought I was going to have to throw a bucket of water on you guys.

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No way man. Life to short get worked over about a web site. Chill out this is what this is all about eveyone has an opinion.You will have people who will not agree with you. Expect it.

Im not certain what a (Buster) is. I think I know what he ment . But I rather not know. <_<

#28 Now in Denton

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Posted 19 August 2005 - 11:29 AM

For a minute there I thought I was going to have to throw a bucket of water on you guys.

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No way man. Life to short get worked over about a web site. Chill out this is what this is all about eveyone has an opinion.You will have people who will not agree with you. Expect it.

Thats bad about being a late comer . I should let this one go when no one said anything here from January. I said it from the get go it's my opinion and say don't count Dallas out yet. But look what I get into.LOL.

Im not certain what a (Buster) is. I think I know what he ment . But I rather not know. <_<

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Anyway If you read editorial in The Star Telegram Last May. A New York woman who saw our Nascar and Longhorns in Times square . Came to Fort Worth to Visit. She and her Husband Loved Fort Worth. But in the FW Weekly someone from New York said we and I do say we in Fort Worth were bunch of hick's who have no businees having museums. Some people are more open minded than others.

#29 safly

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Posted 19 August 2005 - 05:29 PM

People of the Forum. I'm sorry. -_-

(Wiping away the foam from my mouth)
I am all medicated now. :D

That's right Court. We are Texans, and we can just go the Republic route. Again. :ph34r:

One more flag over Mexico wouldn't hurt them. <_<
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#30 Now in Denton

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Posted 26 August 2006 - 11:08 AM

QUOTE(redhead @ Jan 3 2005, 10:55 PM) View Post

I think you have to look at the NYT's timing. First they publish a very negative article about Dallas, and only DAYS later publish a glowing article about Fort Worth---saying that we are coming out of the shadows. Read between the lines: I think their editorial staff is much more savvy than we give them credit for. I actually thnk that the NYT editorial board is making Fort Worth's case! Personally, I found it ironic since I buy the NYT while I am on the road, and had bought the "slam Dallas" isue, only to find the glowing report about our fair city a few days later. I personally think the timing---as well as the captions--were quite intentional.


Over the years I have read many a book about Fort Worth and Dallas . And it's like I cant read a book without running into a anti-Dallas story. From A Architec Philip Johnson book. A bio from Karen Hughes, Worst cities in America book. (That someone mentioned already NOT ME). To this New York Times story a year ago. But this story from the Dallas Morning News from July, 13 2006. Two weeks AFTER the W hotel in Dallas opened . Makes all the above look like a love fest!


Ladies and Gentlemen please read it for yourself.

Dallas descriptions filled with cynicism. Is Dallas ungovernable? Some think so.

By Jacquielynn Floyd

Is Dallas ungovernable?
It's pretty dramatic proposition: [/i] ungovernable. Unmanageable, impossible to lead, ultimately unlivable. We've got problems, but they can't be that bad,can they?

A lot of people think they are, and I have heard from dozens in the last couple of days. They wrote in response to a column I wrote Tuesday saying that the city is locked in an outdated political stalemate,ostensibly between white, wealthy North Dallas and a poor, mostly minority southern sector.

There's a lot more to Dallas than those two camps, but if all you had to go by was our political discourse, you'd never know it.

I'm not alone in this belief.

There seems to be a deep vein of frustration out there among people who love Dallas a lot, but are weary to the bone of hearing the same old players at City Hall.

" I do not know who ,in thier right mind, would want to be mayor of Dallas these days" said one LONGTIME RESIDENT.(empasize added)" You have city council members trying to micromanage city departments... it's the same situation with DISD.

One resident who loved outside the city between 1999 and 2004 said that on his return , he thought things had taken a sharp turn for the WORSE.(empasize added)

"Prior to moving, I thoght Dallas was a great city. But I can tell you that Dallas is a second- or third-rate city at best," he said." It will take a near miracle to turn it around."

And there's this blunt statement from a LIFELONG RESIDENT.(empasize added)"This town makes the top ten list of hopeless' towns and cities. You know it I know it and so does everyone else."

Those are painful sentiments to read,reflective of a dead-end cynicism that has given up hope of ever seeing change,Sadly ,I heard from MANY (empasize added) people who think this way they're so fed up that they have adopted the hard armor of angry indifference.

More than a few blame the 14-1 City Council stucture. Originally intended to correct decades os deliberate exclusion.they say the system has devolved into chaos.

Wrote one former member of the City Council: "It's sad that with all the analysis about Mayor[Laura] Miller's desision not to seek another term, no one has dared to mention that the city's court-imposed 14-1 system has made Dallas virtually ungovernable."

There it is again ,that word [u]ungovernable.

One writer expects Dallas to be come "another Detroit or Washington, D.C. plagued by racial strife between poor minorities living in slums and rich whites walled in behind thier gated enclaves. Everybody else, he predicts, is headed for the suburbs, if they haven't fled already.

I honestly don't think pessimism this harsh reflects absouute reality. But it ought to be a splash of ice water in the face of those already in or who aspire to positions of leadership.

A few writers suggested that they'restill holding out hope for another strong-mayor election,one that might have a better chance of passing without Ms.Miller's polarizing presence.

"Now that we know Dallas will have a new mayor wouldn't this be the time?" one man asked. "A lot of what I heard was not [opponents] voting against the idea,but they did not want Laura Miller to have it"

Maybe that's a possibility. Maybe there really is a leader out there who can break through the bickering mistrust and launch a new political era.

"I think racial divisiveness is out of date" wrote one Ock Cliff resident whose message, while sober,hinted at a buoyant note of optimism."Im hoping for the appearance of another new player whose leadership will defy the simpleminded stereotypes"

One choleric writer RIDICULED (empasize added) me for saying that "Dallas isn't a terrible place," but I think most of us don't really belive it is.

Perhaps the most realistic assessment came from a DALLAS NATIVE (empasize added) who has been living out-of-state for years but is getting ready to come home,DEPITE SOME RESERVATION.(empasize added)

"Dallas has immeasurable potential," he wrote. "But until the city as a whole wakes up,none of it will be realized,"

E-mail jfloyd@dallasnews.com

#31 ramjet

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Posted 26 August 2006 - 04:40 PM

Perhaps being a Fort Worth native and fan I might be a bit biased; but, I live in Albany, New York, my job takes me to New York City 3 days a week, and I'm about to move to Philadelphia and I KNOW - for those of you who care about what the the hipsters and cultural elite think in the Northeastern United States - Fort Worth is extremely cool because of the Bass family, Tadeo Ando, Louis Kahn, the longhorn stampede everyday on Exchange Ave., the peaceful cultural diversity among races, sexes, etc., real estate values, Betty Buckley, Van Cliburn, the Cowgirl Hall of Fame (Brooke Astor is a fan!), the guys in Wranglers, and Lonesome Dove (the owner just opened a branch in Chelsea). Sorry Big D, you're so Sue Ellen in the '80's...


#32 Keller Pirate

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Posted 26 August 2006 - 11:25 PM

QUOTE(ramjet @ Aug 26 2006, 05:40 PM) View Post

Perhaps being a Fort Worth native and fan I might be a bit biased; but, I live in Albany, New York, my job takes me to New York City 3 days a week, and I'm about to move to Philadelphia and I KNOW - for those of you who care about what the the hipsters and cultural elite think in the Northeastern United States - Fort Worth is extremely cool because of the Bass family, Tadeo Ando, Louis Kahn, the longhorn stampede everyday on Exchange Ave., the peaceful cultural diversity among races, sexes, etc., real estate values, Betty Buckley, Van Cliburn, the Cowgirl Hall of Fame (Brooke Astor is a fan!), the guys in Wranglers, and Lonesome Dove (the owner just opened a branch in Chelsea). Sorry Big D, you're so Sue Ellen in the '80's...


How much sexual cultural diversity is there? smile.gif

#33 Now in Denton

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Posted 27 August 2006 - 11:48 AM

QUOTE(Keller Pirate @ Aug 27 2006, 12:25 AM) View Post


How much sexual cultural diversity is there? smile.gif


A whole lot than Fort Worth. What are you getting at?


#34 vjackson

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Posted 28 August 2006 - 08:34 AM

This is the scathing article you were talking about? That Dallas has racial and city government problems??
That there are some people who don't like Dallas?? I hope I can keep myself from passing out from such shocking new as this. For every negative article there are positive one praising Dallas from its commitment to mass transit, urban renewal, business growth, etc. Companies continue to move here, retail and real estate continues to be built, and the skyline continues to change.

And since when has FW become a city of racial harmony?? Like most cities FW's darker sections have been greatly ignored (see FW's east, SE and most of the Northside.) Just because you don't see hostile city council meetings doesn't mean there's racial harmony...far from it.

I said this on another post but I'll say it again. I can find many people in Dallas that hate it here. Just like I know several people in FW, some that live there now that hate it. Like I know people that live in DC, Houston, Seattle, etc. that dislike where they are. So if this is another lame attempt by Nid to start the Dallas v. FW feuding, again, I must say I'm extremely disappointed. Even you can do better than this.




#35 vjackson

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Posted 28 August 2006 - 09:24 AM

Case & point: This is also from the NYT Style Section 8/27/06

The article is like three pages long and titled Lone Star Style. It discusses Austin, San Antonio and Dallas: Here's an excerpt regarding Dallas:

The idea that a single state could serve as a template for what might be exciting in fashion, without actually mentioning clothes or, bless them, socialites, is not as wild as it sounds. Oil had gone to $75 a barrel. The Texas economy is booming. Dallas, for years locked in a Sodom-and-Gomorrah war with Houston, will get a new opera house by Sir Norman Foster, a theater by Rem Koolhaas and bridges by Santiago Calatrava. You have major collectors of contemporary art in Dallas, like Cindy and Howard Rachofsky, who have a home by Richard Meier. Art and architecture have sucked a lot of the energy away from fashion.

So as I said, one article negative..the other positive, from the same paper no less. So what is your point???

#36 safly

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Posted 28 August 2006 - 07:02 PM

QUOTE(ramjet @ Aug 26 2006, 05:40 PM) View Post

Perhaps being a Fort Worth native and fan I might be a bit biased; but, I live in Albany, New York, my job takes me to New York City 3 days a week, and I'm about to move to Philadelphia and I KNOW - for those of you who care about what the the hipsters and cultural elite think in the Northeastern United States - Fort Worth is extremely cool because of the Bass family, Tadeo Ando, Louis Kahn, the longhorn stampede everyday on Exchange Ave., the peaceful cultural diversity among races, sexes, etc., real estate values, Betty Buckley, Van Cliburn, the Cowgirl Hall of Fame (Brooke Astor is a fan!), the guys in Wranglers, and Lonesome Dove (the owner just opened a branch in Chelsea). Sorry Big D, you're so Sue Ellen in the '80's...



NY? You think you can check out Mahmoud's Falafel house for me. A guest at my place spoke well of it. Supposed to be a small 1500 sqft. place that is just off the chain in the Hell's Kitchen area. McDougall and 35th I believe. Not sure if you go around those parts or GO AROUND those parts. Have you dined at Rickshaw? My favorite food item of all time is the theme there. In fact they are in the Flatiron District, close to where ol TLove will soon saddle up these days.
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