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T&P Building (Texas & Pacific Railway Terminal Building)

Downtown Art Deco Historic Buildings

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#51 Redshirt

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Posted 15 April 2006 - 02:52 PM

Project has lofty ambition
Sales to begin soon for Texas & Pacific development of condominiums in historic rail terminal building
By SANDRA BAKER
STAR-TELEGRAM STAFF WRITER


FORT WORTH -- Sales of condos in the historic Texas & Pacific rail terminal building on Lancaster Avenue on the southern edge of downtown will begin in a couple of weeks. Buyers could be moving in before the end of June, its developer said.

The restoration and redevelopment of the terminal, a project now called Texas & Pacific Lofts, is about 80 percent complete, and units will be ready to turn over to buyers in 60 to 90 days, said Patrick Trask, a director with Wood Partners in Houston, one of the project's development partners.

Construction on the lofts began in January 2005. The project was to have been apartments, but because of the apparent demand for ownership opportunities downtown, the developers decided to build condominiums.

"We just made the decision and did the refinancing about two weeks ago," Trask said.

A sales office will open in about a week at the site, 221 W. Lancaster Ave., and the sales staff will begin taking contracts shortly after, he said.

The developer is a limited partnership between Alta Renaissance, a venture of Wood Partners, and Renaissance Development Co. in Fort Worth. Renaissance has owned the building for years. Wood Partners joined in December 2003.

The property will include 228 one- and two-bedroom condos, ranging from 650 square feet to 1,300 square feet. Prices start at $150,000 but average $210,000, Trask said. There are 136 condos in the 12-story historic terminal and 92 in the new four-story building next door.

The units will have upgrades, such as granite countertops. The development will include a business center, indoor and outdoor lounges, a fitness center and pool, Trask said.

As a sales incentive, the developers are passing along some tax abatements. Buyers of units in the terminal building will receive 10-year abatements on city and county property taxes. Buyers in the new building will receive 10-year abatements on the city portion of property taxes, Trask said. Advertising for the project will begin this weekend, he said.

The T&P building once housed the headquarters of the Texas & Pacific Railroad. The train terminal closed in 1967. The regional offices for the Housing and Urban Development Department occupied the nine floors above the lobby until 1999, and the building has been closed since.

The first-floor terminal reopened in 2001, when the Trinity Railway was extended to the site.

www.texasandpacificlofts.com

#52 David Love

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Posted 16 April 2006 - 11:49 AM

Started as apartments and now "Lofts For Sale."

It appears some are listening to public opinion, AND they start in the 150's!

#53 ghughes

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Posted 16 April 2006 - 08:14 PM

Wonder where the pool is going to be.

Also wonder about buyer control of finish out. It sounds like designs are done, materials selected, etc.

Still, better condos than apartments. I like to see "the little guy" have the opportunity to own downtown property. Although if The Tower is anything to go by there will be a lot of of investor interest with rentals available soon after.

#54 cjyoung

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Posted 17 April 2006 - 02:04 PM

QUOTE(redhead @ Feb 17 2006, 04:30 PM) View Post

Andy Taft confirmed the condo decision yesterday publicly in his President's report to DTFW, Inc...where John Goff also mistakenly referred to "it"---not once but TWICE as Downtown DALLAS-Fort Worth Inc. Shame on him---and he lives HERE!


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#55 njjeppson

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Posted 01 May 2006 - 09:12 PM

Here are some photos that the sales office emailed me tonight. They are starting sales in May and giving tours of the building starting May 15th.

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#56 safly

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Posted 01 May 2006 - 09:34 PM

BRAVO! Looking good.
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#57 John T Roberts

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Posted 02 May 2006 - 07:31 PM

Thanks for posting these. I'm really anxious to take a look myself.

#58 mosteijn

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Posted 02 May 2006 - 08:46 PM

Wow!!! Those are some tight looking elevators. Thanks for the pics!

#59 David Love

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Posted 09 May 2006 - 06:00 PM

Sales office opens on 15 May, as of today they’re booked past the 23rd.

Don’t think you can have much made to order since they were pretty much done, but none of the unit walls are load bearing, so you could basically buy two units and open everything up if that’s what you’re looking for.

Maintenance fees are 35 cents per sq foot, which includes cable and DSL.

Hope to have some photos soon…


#60 Now in Denton

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Posted 18 May 2006 - 12:28 PM

Im starting to NOT like the new wing east of the T&P . Glad it's not any higher than it is. Greenery always helps to hide a eyesore I hope there will be some.

#61 njjeppson

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Posted 18 May 2006 - 09:23 PM

Here are some photos of the finished units that I saw on Monday. I was impressed by the high-quality finish in things like the moulding, appliances, and granite countertops. The windows are thick (double-paned) so the unit is silent... no noise from IH 30 or trains at all. The units are all brand new but have original exposed ceiling and terrazo floors. The ones on the 12th floor are finished and they are working their way down. The odd floors have dark wood and even floors have light wood cabinetry. All units are for-sale condos and there are 13 per floor on each level of the original building (more in the newer building). Prices depend on the floor level and view. Today was their first day of sales and they sold 6 already... and they expect to sell out quickly. They were also out power washing the rear of the building and it looks much better... I think they still have to clean the front. You can check out their website at http://www.texasandpacificlofts.com/

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Fitness center (swimming pool will be dug in the old outdoor waiting room):

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Rear of building showing parking garage for residents adjacent to TRE platforms:

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Work is also progressing on the reconstruction of Lancaster Avenue (a lot of construction in the area):

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Views from the tower:

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Details of the art deco architecture which I enjoy (most from the TRE lobby):

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#62 Fort Worthology

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Posted 18 May 2006 - 09:24 PM

Yes, the new building is flat-out ugly. Lucky thing the classic building is so gorgeous.

- Architecture/urban planning/transit blogger, Fort Worth Weekly

Fort Worth District 9 Zoning Commissioner


#63 JBB

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Posted 18 May 2006 - 09:35 PM

The stucco on the new building, especially at the top, makes it look like they ran out of money for bricks.

#64 Now in Denton

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Posted 19 May 2006 - 10:52 AM

QUOTE(Atomic Glee @ May 18 2006, 10:24 PM) View Post

Yes, the new building is flat-out ugly. Lucky thing the classic building is so gorgeous.


I would think thier be some Art Deco on it but I see none ! Nice shots NJJEPPSON Thank's

#65 mosteijn

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Posted 19 May 2006 - 03:20 PM

QUOTE(njjeppson @ May 18 2006, 10:23 PM) View Post

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That is quite the view! Will look even better once the Omni gets built (notice that the north parking lot has already been torn up...I guess stuff is moving forward!)

QUOTE(Atomic Glee @ May 18 2006, 10:24 PM) View Post

Yes, the new building is flat-out ugly. Lucky thing the classic building is so gorgeous.

I wouldn't call it ugly per se, just very uninspiring and boring. But yes, the terminal itself is amazing, and we're so fortunate someone decided to save the building and turn it into very classy looking lofts.

#66 AndyN

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Posted 19 May 2006 - 03:35 PM

What did they do with that classic stainless diner? That thing is incredible and worthy of reuse. I'm surprised they reopened the "outdoor" waiting room. Seems like it would be much more comfortable space if enclosed in glass and HVAC'd.
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#67 stormalong

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Posted 01 June 2006 - 08:03 PM

As someone who is buying one of the T&P units, thought I'd finally weigh in with some of my thoughts.

Unlike cberen1 (see topic "DMN article"), Mrs. Stormalong not only will let me live in the T&P but is absolutely enthusiastic about it. Great looking building and that post office next door…OMG. I've lived in Fort Worth for 23 years and have never been in there. My wife who was born here has been in only once (well, twice now). Absolutely worth taking the time to check out.

But I digress. When The Tower was up for grabs, we were still trying to get our son out of high school and off to college—and pay for it besides. We've now decided the time is right to explore the downtown option (yeah, your stereotypical "empty nesters" with all the usual reasons). Were surprised at how taken we were with the Houston Place Lofts which we thought extremely charming but just a little pricey and not much in the way of amenities. Also, as with The Tower (at this point), nothing in the way of upgrade options. One City Place (south Tandy Tower) is still too far off in the future and also sounds as if it will be somewhat expensive with a few unwanted amenities (maid service?). TRV is way, way off in the future. Pecan Place and similar developments didn't really grab us even if they might have cost less on a square foot basis.

Along came the T&P. Historical. Attractive: awesomely cool exterior and lobby. Right there on the TRE. Ugly area but lots of potential with the Lancaster Redevelopment Corridor.

The downside? Still no upgrade options but more reasonably priced than HPL so room left in budget to do our own. That old terrazzo floor in the units is absolutely hideous dry.gif . For some reason, the floor was considered historical so the builder was not allowed to do anything with it—but we can and will asap unless the forum gives us too much heat over it (suggestions anyone?).

Right now, we're just waiting for the HOA documents to review so we can finalize the contract.

Oh yeah, I don't know what they did with the diner mellow.gif .


#68 safly

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Posted 01 June 2006 - 10:03 PM

You know what would be a GREAT IDEA is if someone in DTFW sold "naked" units. (Hee hee)

But seriously, you can buy into an unfinished loft or condo, then fix it to your spec's and well within HOA minimal guidelines. Then you can truly have a uniqhue one-of-a-kind residence in DTFW.

Genius idea. Sell em low with little upgrades or no finish outs. Just get electricity, plumbing, structural and HVAC construction up to city code. Then sell em cheap, say $100/sqft. To the public of course.

You do the rest.
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#69 hooked

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Posted 02 June 2006 - 08:14 AM

QUOTE(safly @ Jun 1 2006, 11:03 PM) View Post
But seriously, you can buy into an unfinished loft or condo, then fix it to your spec's and well within HOA minimal guidelines. Then you can truly have a uniqhue one-of-a-kind residence in DTFW.

That would work if you pay cash. Most lenders, however, require that the property be "finished," including floor coverings, cabinets, and fixtures.

#70 safly

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Posted 02 June 2006 - 08:29 PM

I would think that the lenders would want to close no matter what condition the place is in, as long as the BUYER gives the OK.

If I were a lender I would have a $500 fee added on for any "legal liability protection", just in case.

I'd pay that extra $500 or 1% (lesser of) on the downpayment.
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#71 stormalong

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Posted 02 June 2006 - 10:40 PM

When I talked to the PNL rep a while back about Tandy/One City Place, he indicated that the upper units would be sold a various levels of completion with the top floor being nothing but bare walls. I never thought to ask about the financing issue but those upper units will probably be priced for and only appeal to the higher income clientele for whom the financing would not be an issue.

I like safly's idea, though.

#72 ghughes

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Posted 05 June 2006 - 05:10 AM

While a mortgage would indeed require a completed property, a construction loan could be available in some form that would be flipped to a mortgage upon completion. That's how new homes are financed. The construction loan is typically done by a bank.

Safly's idea can work but would require lenders with that kind of experience (or willingness). Locally they would be in short supply.

In other words, once again, forum members are ahead of their time! biggrin.gif

#73 vjackson

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Posted 05 June 2006 - 12:30 PM

Awesome picutures they've done a great job on the original building, the new one is awful. Hopefully the addition of Omni and the improvements on Lancaster will happen soon, because I hate to be a spoil sport, but that view is unimpressive. Way too much parking lot and a close up view of some of FW's ugliest buildings. And the vantage point makes the skyline look extremely small and squatty. I guess you have to appeciate and make the best of what you have. But I don't t think most people in other cities, except FW, would be impressed with that view.

BTW, what's going to be done with the lobby. Is it just going to serve residents?? It would be a waste for that not to have some kind of public use. A restuarant/bar would be perfect.

#74 stormalong

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Posted 05 June 2006 - 03:34 PM

QUOTE(vjackson @ Jun 5 2006, 01:30 PM) View Post

BTW, what's going to be done with the lobby. Is it just going to serve residents?? It would be a waste for that not to have some kind of public use. A restuarant/bar would be perfect.


The sales staff indicated to me that the lobby will continue to be available to rent for special events as well as access to the TRE. Don't know if the residents will receive any special consideration for its use. The developer's literature indicates that the wing east of the lobby and the area immediately behind it adjacent to the hallway leading to the TRE will be a retail area (with small portions carved out for TRE use and for storage).

#75 vjackson

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Posted 05 June 2006 - 03:42 PM

^^^^
Is is too early to tell how close the building will be to the street when Lancaster is completed?? I'm so afraid there's going to be a big parking lot in front of the building. If it can't be near the street, hopefully the developer will at least have the brains to have a park like setting (trees, foliage, a water fountain would be awesome, etc) in front. Anything but a parking lot!!!!!

#76 safly

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Posted 05 June 2006 - 03:52 PM

Ditto on the park and some sort of OPEN AIR MARKET within the TNP building. Just an idear.

And those views are a bit hard to accept, especially with that BIG OL GRAHAM CRACKA next to the FWCC.

rotflmao.gif

I'll take that as a compliment HUGHES.
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#77 ghughes

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Posted 05 June 2006 - 05:45 PM

The main lobby is the property of The T in the first condo arrangement for the property. The award-winning renovations were done with a substantial federal funding effort and the T now manages the use for receptions etc.

Compliment intended, safly!

#78 Now in Denton

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Posted 06 June 2006 - 10:55 AM

QUOTE(vjackson @ Jun 5 2006, 01:30 PM) View Post

Awesome picutures they've done a great job on the original building, the new one is awful. Hopefully the addition of Omni and the improvements on Lancaster will happen soon, because I hate to be a spoil sport, but that view is unimpressive. Way too much parking lot and a close up view of some of FW's ugliest buildings. And the vantage point makes the skyline look extremely small and squatty. I guess you have to appeciate and make the best of what you have. But I don't t think most people in other cities, except FW, would be impressed with that view.

BTW, what's going to be done with the lobby. Is it just going to serve residents?? It would be a waste for that not to have some kind of public use. A restuarant/bar would be perfect.


The end of the world . It's 666 today and I agree with vjackson. New building Awful. Skyline nothing to write home about. Omni will help skyline. Lancaster being done as we talk. Daily sandstorm's. Don't drive thier if you just washed your car! tongue.gif

P.S. With parking lot being worked on for the Omni . It also ads to the Downtown sandstorm. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED ! newlaugh.gif

#79 safly

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Posted 06 June 2006 - 10:50 PM

"Now in Denton!"

"This is ALL for you." tongue.gif
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#80 njjeppson

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Posted 23 June 2006 - 01:04 AM

QUOTE(vjackson @ Jun 5 2006, 09:42 PM) View Post

^^^^
Is is too early to tell how close the building will be to the street when Lancaster is completed?? I'm so afraid there's going to be a big parking lot in front of the building. If it can't be near the street, hopefully the developer will at least have the brains to have a park like setting (trees, foliage, a water fountain would be awesome, etc) in front. Anything but a parking lot!!!!!


I was told that the parking lot in front of the T&P building is owned by a separate developer and is only temporary parking for the T& P until construction is complete. After that, the piece of land can be developed as a separate project. All of the parking for the T&P is in the new garage and the TRE parking is under IH30.


#81 njjeppson

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Posted 23 June 2006 - 01:08 AM

Posted on Sun, Jun. 04, 2006



Texas & Pacific Lofts offers hip loft living in downtown Fort Worth
Star-Telegram Advertising

Texas & Pacific Lofts announces the overwhelming response to the newly renovated 1930s Texas & Pacific Railway Terminal located in Fort Worth.

The railway terminal is now a luxury urban loft community offering studios, one- and two-bedroom lofts at affordable prices, ranging from $150,000 to $300,000.

A community of Wood Partners, a national multifamily housing developer with local offices in Houston and Dallas/Fort Worth, the restoration included restoring the original marble and terrazzo floors as well as the rare art deco appointments throughout. The Texas & Pacific Lofts offers 136 lofts in the beautifully restored 12-story historic rail terminal and 92 lofts in the new mid-rise loft community.

"The interest in the lofts has been overwhelming, with more than 519 homeowners registering on a priority wait list," said Mary Margaret Davis, sales manager for CondoSmart LLC, a licensed Texas real estate brokerage company specializing in on-site sales of condominiums, lofts, town homes and high-rises. "In just eight short days, 40 of those have chosen to call Texas & Pacific Lofts their new home. The first homeowners will be able to move-in in early July, with most of the construction completed by the end of July."

Davis added that this unique community is truly a first for Fort Worth.

As one of Fort Worth's most sought-after downtown addresses, the Texas & Pacific Lofts offers residents access to Fort Worth's vibrant downtown including the hottest restaurants and museums along with scenic walking trails and world-class cultural venues.

Residents can purchase studios or one-or two-bedroom lofts that include spacious contemporary floorplans offering magnificent views of downtown and the medical center area or tranquil courtyards with lush landscaping. Amenities include a "cyber café" coffee bar located in the resident lounge, covered on-site parking, a state-of-the-art fitness center and a media room complete with flat-panel TVs. The lofts also feature granite countertops in all the kitchens and baths, as well as gourmet-style kitchens with stainless steel appliances.

Homeowners at Texas & Pacific Lofts can take advantage of a 10-year tax abatement offered on city and county property taxes in the historic terminal building and a 10-year tax abatement on the city portion of property taxes in the newly built mid-rise lofts.

The building opened in 1931 and housed the Texas & Pacific Railway Terminal, helping to connect downtown Fort Worth to Dallas. The building features Zigzag Moderne Art Deco architecture and is one of the best examples of this style in Fort Worth.

The Texas & Pacific Lofts is at the centerpiece of Fort Worth's up-and-coming Lancaster Avenue area and part of the city's vibrant downtown and cultural scene. The Lancaster area is currently undergoing a $15 million dollar improvement program to revitalize and expand the southern edge of Fort Worth's downtown retail and living area and is scheduled to be completed year's end.

The Texas & Pacific Lofts sales and marketing center is open daily at 221 Lancaster Ave. Call 817-877-4700 for an appointment or visit the Web site at www.texasandpacificlofts.com.



#82 cberen1

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Posted 30 June 2006 - 07:48 AM

I walked through a few units with a friend of mine and the leasing agent on Monday. I thought they were pretty cool, with a couple of minor exceptions.

The cheapest unit in the complex is a 1st floor, one bedroom loft in the new building for $174K. The HOA dues are $0.39 / ft. which includes basic cable and high-speed internet. In the main building, the first six floor sell at a moderate discount to the upper floors. Condos on the north side are $10K higher than the same floorplan on the South side.

The windows do a remarkable job of killing the road and train noise. We opened and closed the windows to compare. Granite countertops everywhere. Original terrazzo floors (polished, but not patched up very well). The cabinets are of moderate quality at best.

The thing, though, that really stood out was how incredibly cheap the doors, casings and moldings were. They looked like cr*p. The hall way doors are just, flat, hollow core, wood veneer doors ($29.99 at Home Depot). The trim around the doors was just a plain molding, not sanded, splices were obvious, poorly painted, junk. Lighting in the hallways is just a series of chain hung, 4 foot, double flourescent fixtures commonly found over the work bench in garages everywhere. They look awful.

But the building is cool. The views are pretty good. With a little upgrading, the condos could be pretty cool.

The agent said that 61 units were sold already. They top two floors are completely sold out. I think, from an investment standpoint, the return would be pretty good if you could hold on through the completion of the Lancaster redevelopment.

#83 safly

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Posted 30 June 2006 - 08:28 AM

QUOTE
top two floors are completely sold out


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#84 hooked

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Posted 30 June 2006 - 03:16 PM

Actually, the top floor (twelve) in the terminal building is not being offered for sale at this time. As of last Saturday, there were still two units available on the eleventh floor, facing south, one on each end of the building.

#85 safly

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Posted 01 July 2006 - 09:03 AM

Perhaps that top floor will be gutted out to only be replaced by a SUPER spa (very popular these days) or some type of FANCY ballroom to compliment the Art-Deco entry. Maybe a new 12th floor performance hall, with skyline views that would rival the Lincoln in NYC. happy.gif

Wishful thinking. sleep.gif
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#86 RD Milhollin

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Posted 01 July 2006 - 11:02 AM

QUOTE(safly @ Jul 1 2006, 10:03 AM) View Post

Perhaps that top floor will be gutted out to only be replaced by a SUPER spa (very popular these days) or some type of FANCY ballroom to compliment the Art-Deco entry. Maybe a new 12th floor performance hall, with skyline views that would rival the Lincoln in NYC. happy.gif

Wishful thinking. sleep.gif


I am pretty sure top-floor ballrooms and performance halls are frowned upon by fire departments.

#87 Sam Stone

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Posted 01 July 2006 - 11:45 AM

Not to mention how much more money they can make by selling it as condos.

QUOTE(Prairie Pup @ Jul 1 2006, 01:02 PM) View Post

QUOTE(safly @ Jul 1 2006, 10:03 AM) View Post

Perhaps that top floor will be gutted out to only be replaced by a SUPER spa (very popular these days) or some type of FANCY ballroom to compliment the Art-Deco entry. Maybe a new 12th floor performance hall, with skyline views that would rival the Lincoln in NYC. happy.gif

Wishful thinking. sleep.gif


I am pretty sure top-floor ballrooms and performance halls are frowned upon by fire departments.



#88 safly

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Posted 02 July 2006 - 04:09 AM

Mornin.

I don't know? I'd take my chances and "roll tha dice" sort of speak, and prepare for a legal CASINO after you've made it a ballroom/reception type of place. You figure you can make MAYBE five or six "good QUALITY" and SPACIOUS Penthouse structures (LEX Luther QUALITY). Sell them (if you can) at a rate per sqft. (like the TOWER to comp from) which would range from $399,000.00 (low end) to about $1.5 million (extremely high end) per unit, then you could avg. out your total cost factor on constructing those suckers. It would avg. about $949,500 (low end) to about $1,224,750.00 (high end) total, just for avg. retail sake of explaining this.
So your construction cost marginals would RANGE somewhere between 17%(+/-.5%) to 25%(+/-.5%) of those avg. aggregate retail numbers. And your potential profit marginals would RANGE somewhere between $788,085.00-$712,125.00 per unit on the LOW end and $1,237,500.00-$1,125,000.00 per unit on the HIGH end. So with 5 penthouses (top floor) sold as described before, your aggregate profit on sales would range from $3,940,425.00-$3,560,625.00 for 5 units total on the LOW end and $6,187,500.00-$5,625,000.00 for 5 units total on the HIGH end. I personally can live with that, but a HUGE development company with "x" amount of shareholders expecting"x" amount on their ROI, most likely would not.

Remember, this company would pretty much touch this money once(maybe twice), and that is on the pre-sell or first sell round(s). HOA's???

So I would think that a ballroom/reception/conference area, say 3 of them with skyline views of DTFW and the major highway system (nice when lit up with cars) could create demand for use about 75%-85% of the year, if we become even more of a hopping conventioneers/tourist kinda town. And I would say that those particular event halls would fetch hall rent at about $2500.00 min./event hall per total day of use at 75-85% of the year. Which would bring their annual sales figures to about $1,912,500.00-$2,167,500.00 (on the conservative side for 3 halls at one event/day each). On the less conservative side you can easily double it. Now the GREAT thing about this particular scenario for the "x" amount of shareholders is that the construction cost marginals would be far far less (more and more EMPTY AIR FOR RENT.), and the number of times that THE MONEY touches their hands are far far many more times than they would at selling the space for living units and MAYBE taking a share from HOA (On that top floor alone).

So for a short term big shot money maker of an investment deal, I would sell those built out units as is. Go Mid(5-8 years) to long term(10+), I would lease out space for events that cater to the crowd of people that they originally intended would visit, convention, tour, move in or live in DtFW and FW general from the minute they were "sold" on renovating this structure. Perhaps that is the rub as of late???

Open for CONSTRUCTIVE criticism and discussion at any time.

THE END. smile.gif
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#89 jefffwd

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Posted 02 July 2006 - 07:36 AM

QUOTE(safly @ Jul 2 2006, 05:09 AM) View Post

Mornin.

I don't know? I'd take my chances and "roll tha dice" sort of speak, and prepare for a legal CASINO after you've made it a ballroom/reception type of place. You figure you can make MAYBE five or six "good QUALITY" and SPACIOUS Penthouse structures (LEX Luther QUALITY). Sell them (if you can) at a rate per sqft. (like the TOWER to comp from) which would range from $399,000.00 (low end) to about $1.5 million (extremely high end) per unit, then you could avg. out your total cost factor on constructing those suckers. It would avg. about $949,500 (low end) to about $1,224,750.00 (high end) total, just for avg. retail sake of explaining this.
So your construction cost marginals would RANGE somewhere between 17%(+/-.5%) to 25%(+/-.5%) of those avg. aggregate retail numbers. And your potential profit marginals would RANGE somewhere between $788,085.00-$712,125.00 per unit on the LOW end and $1,237,500.00-$1,125,000.00 per unit on the HIGH end. So with 5 penthouses (top floor) sold as described before, your aggregate profit on sales would range from $3,940,425.00-$3,560,625.00 for 5 units total on the LOW end and $6,187,500.00-$5,625,000.00 for 5 units total on the HIGH end. I personally can live with that, but a HUGE development company with "x" amount of shareholders expecting"x" amount on their ROI, most likely would not.

Remember, this company would pretty much touch this money once(maybe twice), and that is on the pre-sell or first sell round(s). HOA's???

So I would think that a ballroom/reception/conference area, say 3 of them with skyline views of DTFW and the major highway system (nice when lit up with cars) could create demand for use about 75%-85% of the year, if we become even more of a hopping conventioneers/tourist kinda town. And I would say that those particular event halls would fetch hall rent at about $2500.00 min./event hall per total day of use at 75-85% of the year. Which would bring their annual sales figures to about $1,912,500.00-$2,167,500.00 (on the conservative side for 3 halls at one event/day each). On the less conservative side you can easily double it. Now the GREAT thing about this particular scenario for the "x" amount of shareholders is that the construction cost marginals would be far far less (more and more EMPTY AIR FOR RENT.), and the number of times that THE MONEY touches their hands are far far many more times than they would at selling the space for living units and MAYBE taking a share from HOA (On that top floor alone).

So for a short term big shot money maker of an investment deal, I would sell those built out units as is. Go Mid(5-8 years) to long term(10+), I would lease out space for events that cater to the crowd of people that they originally intended would visit, convention, tour, move in or live in DtFW and FW general from the minute they were "sold" on renovating this structure. Perhaps that is the rub as of late???

Open for CONSTRUCTIVE criticism and discussion at any time.

THE END. smile.gif


5:09am!?! Really!?! Just getting home? newlaugh.gif

#90 Now in Denton

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Posted 02 July 2006 - 11:14 AM

^^^
newlaugh.gif

#91 safly

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Posted 02 July 2006 - 12:03 PM

Ahhh NO! Those days are about gone. I am in the process of moving and I wanted to get an early start with some light packing, plus I am trying to get into the routine of an early morn these days. Big stuff happening for me and my peeps.

Amazing what a little DP in the mornin does to you. smile.gif
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#92 RD Milhollin

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Posted 02 July 2006 - 02:39 PM

QUOTE(safly @ Jul 2 2006, 01:03 PM) View Post

Ahhh NO! Those days are about gone. I am in the process of moving and I wanted to get an early start with some light packing, plus I am trying to get into the routine of an early morn these days. Big stuff happening for me and my peeps.


Does this mean you are getting in on the ground floor of EGG FARMING? tongue.gif


#93 safly

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Posted 02 July 2006 - 05:53 PM

Nu uh. This stuff.

Mo-hair Money


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#94 John T Roberts

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Posted 27 July 2006 - 09:06 PM

The Texas and Pacific Lofts had their official "Grand Opening" tonight. I toured several units in the terminal and one unit in the new building. I was impressed with how much sound was kept out of the building by the units. I do like the Art Deco feel of the place and really appreciate the owners putting this facility back into "almost" full operation. The reason that I say "almost" is that the old diner is still there and intact. It would be wonderful if it could be restored and a new diner move into that space. Access into it would be from either the lobby or the outdoor waiting room.

I have mixed opinions about the units in the terminal building. I actually like the terrazzo floors. It makes the units very unique. I don't know of any other lofts that have them. I'm sure there are some, but I haven't seen them.

As for the downtown view, it actually is a little better than the pictures show. You don't see a lot of the taller buildings on the north end of downtown because they are blocked by the SBC Building and Carter+Burgess Plaza. Once the Omni is built, an even bigger building will block the view.

I don't like the new building from the exterior, but I really don't like the interior corridors. They are narrow, unconditioned, and feature hardy plank siding on them. The 2 bedroom unit that I toured inside the new building is similar to the units in the terminal, but just don't have quite the charm. It has a "hard" ceiling out of gypsum board (sheetrock) and concrete floors. I think the unit itself was a little larger than the ones inside the terminal.

#95 Now in Denton

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Posted 28 July 2006 - 11:58 AM

QUOTE(John T Roberts @ Jul 27 2006, 10:06 PM) View Post

I don't like the new building from the exterior, but I really don't like the interior corridors. They are narrow, unconditioned, and feature hardy plank siding on them. The 2 bedroom unit that I toured inside the new building is similar to the units in the terminal, but just don't have quite the charm. It has a "hard" ceiling out of gypsum board (sheetrock) and concrete floors. I think the unit itself was a little larger than the ones inside the terminal.


I had no doubt about how you felt about the "new building" . But so wanted your opinion. As most of us here said weeks ago feel the same as you. Just glad it's not a large building. My gut tells me the next generation of Fort Worthians will tear it down. This is our generation of a Couthouse annex mistake.

How are sales? Does anyone know? My guees they will be slow untill Lancaster is done. Its so ugly right now. And the Lancaster Renderings only give a hint as to what it will look like. It looks like another good year before its done. And with Omni about to take off. Dirt,trucks,hills of rubble ect. I would think people look at the area and say "no way".

#96 Fort Worthology

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Posted 28 July 2006 - 12:12 PM

QUOTE(Now in Denton @ Jul 28 2006, 12:58 PM) View Post
How are sales? Does anyone know? My guees they will be slow untill Lancaster is done. Its so ugly right now. And the Lancaster Renderings only give a hint as to what it will look like. It looks like another good year before its done. And with Omni about to take off. Dirt,trucks,hills of rubble ect. I would think people look at the area and say "no way".



Actually, from what I've heard, sales are rather brisk.

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#97 vjackson

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Posted 28 July 2006 - 12:59 PM

QUOTE(John T Roberts @ Jul 27 2006, 10:06 PM) View Post

As for the downtown view, it actually is a little better than the pictures show. You don't see a lot of the taller buildings on the north end of downtown because they are blocked by the SBC Building and Carter+Burgess Plaza. Once the Omni is built, an even bigger building will block the view.


Good. I hope the view is better than it looks on tv. Fox4 did a story on the building last night. I happened to catch it while I was getting takeout at a restuarant. An older lady at the bar even commented how unattractive DTFW looked when the view was shown from the building. If the Omni turns out to be as attractive as it looks in the renderings, it won't be a bad thing if it blocks that view of dt. The building looked awesome.

#98 cberen1

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Posted 28 July 2006 - 01:31 PM

QUOTE(Atomic Glee @ Jul 28 2006, 01:12 PM) View Post


Actually, from what I've heard, sales are rather brisk.


I've heard the same thing. 60+ units sold already.

Sales in all of the projects seem to be on or ahead of projections, except the Neil P. They have 10 units either sold or under contract. The construction in that building is pretty intrusive, though. So hopefully sales will pick up when they get done.

#99 stormalong

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Posted 28 July 2006 - 04:50 PM

QUOTE(cberen1 @ Jun 30 2006, 08:48 AM) View Post

The thing, though, that really stood out was how incredibly cheap the doors, casings and moldings were. They looked like cr*p. The hall way doors are just, flat, hollow core, wood veneer doors ($29.99 at Home Depot). The trim around the doors was just a plain molding, not sanded, splices were obvious, poorly painted, junk. Lighting in the hallways is just a series of chain hung, 4 foot, double flourescent fixtures commonly found over the work bench in garages everywhere. They look awful.


I was there last night also and I thought the units looked really good. After the above comments, I made a point of looking at some of those items. Don't remember the hallway lighting but I thought the doors seemed pretty solid and the molding looked just fine. The thing that surprised me was how the terrazzo floors looked so good all cleaned and polished up. A previous post complained that they were poorly patched but I just thought that added to the charm.

As for the diner, the sales staff was really stressing the fact the it was in the process of being renovated and restored to its original function. They invited everyone to seek it out and notice how much of the original seating and equipment was still there. If and when they entice all the little shops to set up around that interior area between the lobby and the TRE station, it should be pretty cool.

Perhaps the view of Lancaster Ave was a little rough but work is obviously being done. I'm cautiously optimistic about the future of this end of downtown.

#100 hooked

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Posted 29 July 2006 - 11:25 AM

My main problem with the place has to do with the fact that there's not a secure pet area. They advertise as being "pet-friendly," and while they do allow pets, there are no pet-related amenities. That area of downtown is a little rough around the edges, with the nearby shelters and such. I wouldn't be so concerned for myself, but wouldn't want my wife or daughter out walking the dog alone, especially after dark.

Some folks I've spoken with are also concerned about the amenities not being complete, specifically the pool, and the security issues with the adjacent public access. Homeowner's dues seem high, but that's to be expected, I suppose.

Even considering all of the above, I still believe this would be a good investment. Values will likely go up with the area's improvement.





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