86 replies to this topic

[mosteijn]

Developers to add to town house project

Tom Struhs, developer of Trinity Bluff on the north edge of downtown Fort Worth, is expanding his Pecan Place condominium development a few blocks away.

Struhs and his wife, Elizabeth Falconer, recently acquired almost an acre of vacant land off East First Street from Fort Worth businessman Ed Bass. The land is next to Pecan Place Townhomes, a project the couple started about 2 1/2 years ago.

The first building, 601 E. First St., has nine condominiums.

Struhs said that architectural plans are completed and that he is getting city building permits. Construction on the next 16 condominiums will likely begin in January, he said.

In all, 26 town houses will be added to Pecan Place.

The new town houses will be three-story brownstones with roof decks. They will range from 1,630 square feet to 2,550 square feet and cost $275,000 to $395,000.

The condos will be "very urban," Struhs said.

Before Bass sold Struhs the land, Struhs said he and his wife; Bass; Bill Boecker, president of Sundance Square Development; Vicki Dickerson, president of the Project Group; and real estate broker Martha Williams with Williams Trew toured several Fort Worth town house projects.

They discussed the types of town houses that would be appropriate and appealing for the neighborhood, Struhs said.

"One of the obligations that I had in the purchase was to allow Ed Bass to give us some input," Struhs said. "He had some great ideas that we will incorporate into our design."

Those ideas include an interior courtyard, which will allow for more sunlight in the houses, Struhs said.

-- Sandra Baker


Sounds very nice; I hope they didn't hire Schaumburg this time, otherwise the area will start to seem kind of monotonous. The prices aren't too bad, either.

[mosteijn]

Uptown is coming.

[redhead]

I heard the architect is out of Dallas and has a great deal of experience with townhomes. This will be the closest walkable project to Sundance that has attached garages and private yards. Should be interesting to see how it competes with Le Bijou, especially in terms of price. By the way, did anyone see this week's DBJ interview with Schaumburg? Again, if I could link, I would.

[John T Roberts]

Redhead, I did not see the interview. I also can't find it online.

[redhead]

Dallas Business Journal for the week ending Jan 6. The column is called "Facetime" on page 46. Basically says he's focusing his residential work in town towards the "the city's glitterati and cultural elite." Forumers might find it interesting---maybe it should be added to the Ruin thread.

[Urbndwlr]

"the city's glitterati and cultural elite."

Good grief.

[redhead]

Urbndwlr   Posted Jan 10 2005,

(redhead @ Jan 3 2005, 10:18 PM)
"the city's glitterati and cultural elite."

Good grief.

Now THAT's an understatement!

I think "good grief" is an oxy moron!!!

[daddy Z]

Redhead, I did not see the interview.  I also can't find it online.

the only thing I could find was this
http://www.bizjourna...tml?t=printable

[safly]

Redhead, I did not see the interview.  I also can't find it online.

the only thing I could find was this
http://www.bizjourna...tml?t=printable

Heard from a close source that Schambourg is planning something BIG right dab next to the new Pier 1. Almost twice the size of P1, all retail and apts. His stuff is not bad, we just need someone who will push for more units in their developments. His stuff is tooo pricey to get anyone intersted in buying, much less renting. All low supply and supposed high demand. FWST does "puff" peices on this downtown living hype, I know, I was quoted once. Better price on that Struh's project, but not in my range, and I already live in downtown in a P-house set-up. Anything over $120 sq.ft in this town is absurd.

[safly]

Dallas Business Journal for the week ending Jan 6.  The column is called "Facetime" on page 46. Basically says he's focusing his residential work in town towards the "the city's glitterati and cultural elite."  Forumers might find it interesting---maybe it should be added to the Ruin thread.

Funny, this town doesn't know the first thing about culture outside of it's "drugstore cowboy" way of life. So where are these culture elite in FW? Must be at Leddy's, buying ostrich boots.

[redhead]

Man are you negative!!! Did you realize that this city has more museum space per capita than ANY city in the country and it is ALL privately funded? Who cares if they buy boots at Leddy's! I'd rather hang with them than those over-leveraged, self-pretensious *&@#$%'ing egomaniacs in Dallas building shrines to themselves!!! Are you sure you want to live in Fort Worth?

[SurplusPopulation]

Amen, Redhead! I wanted to respond to some of the negative posts yesterday but there were so many it was impossible to pick which one to resond to. Safly, you have every right to feel the way you do and perhaps much of it is justified. However, why subject yourself to this city or this forum if it causes you such disomfort. I hate (HATE!) southern California, where much of my extended family lives. Because I hate it so I would never live there nor would I chose to be on a forum in which every one else loves it. As I said you have every right to be here, but please try to remember that the vast majority of us are here because we love this city, and despite any problems we may have with certain aspects of our town (plenty are talked about here), none of us wants to hear our city insulted. Please respect that.

[hipolyte]

Yes, when we're in a bad mood around here, we mostly talk about Dallas.

[Urbndwlr]

Dallas Business Journal for the week ending Jan 6.  The column is called "Facetime" on page 46. Basically says he's focusing his residential work in town towards the "the city's glitterati and cultural elite."  Forumers might find it interesting---maybe it should be added to the Ruin thread.

Funny, this town doesn't know the first thing about culture outside of it's "drugstore cowboy" way of life. So where are these culture elite in FW? Must be at Leddy's, buying ostrich boots.

Right here, baby. Not a big boot-wearer, but I own a pair.
Seriously though, I do think the reference to the "glitterati" is silly and only appeals to those who aspire to such a label. We all need to take real estate marketing with a large grain of salt.

There is a significant crowd of well-educated, sophisticated people in our city. Admittedly much of the sophisticated element of the city is not immediately visible to those who are new to the city or are visiting. I think the emergence of downtown's residential element will help remedy that.

[mosteijn]

Since it's been a while since this thread was updated...I was perusing the Real Estate section of the ST this morning, and at the top of Trew's listings was a rendering of the Pecan Place townhomes. Let me say that although the actual design of the buildings looks good, I'm kind of dissapointed at the site layout. They're set back quite far from the street, and worse yet, they're gated/fenced .

[redhead]

Alas, Johnny, the city requires setbacks. However, the fences appear to be the low iron ones that do not preclude conversation with the passersby---not tall menacing structures. Looks like Lincoln Park to me.

[mosteijn]

Why does the city require setbacks in downtown of all places? That's just stupid.

David, I've been looking all over the web for the rendering but the ST took it off their website and neither Trew's nor Struh's (heh, that rhymes...) sites have it. If they publish it again tomorrow, I'll take a pic and post it here.

[safly]

Why does the city require setbacks in downtown of all places? That's just stupid.

David, I've been looking all over the web for the rendering but the ST took it off their website and neither Trew's nor Struh's (heh, that rhymes...) sites have it. If they publish it again tomorrow, I'll take a pic and post it here.

Perhaps this is what you were referring to.

DT Living?

Let me know if this helps.

[John T Roberts]

Why does the city require setbacks in downtown of all places? That's just stupid.

Not all of downtown is zoned "H - Central Business District". "H" has no building setbacks. Most of the other zoning categories have them.

[feaguru]

What are the thoughts on these? I like the rooftop and would only be able to afford the entry level units. Are the places to drink within walking distance (assuming you are drunk , Seems a little pricey 1600 sq ft for 275k, ouch. My friend said a loft in downtown dallas goes for about that...and thats dallas, not fort worth. Is this market just inflated???

P.S. I have been looking at the fairmount lofts and they are nice, but the location is suspect. I mean how urban can it really be when there is nothing to even do really? So 300k for what?

[safly]

Feagaru.

I feel like we have know eachother for so so so long. Or have you just been reading my exact posts since Feb.? UR right $275K for ...what? I mean how urban are we when you have to ask on a Forum if this particular location is near something to do? If it had been said that they are eyeing downtown dallas or NYC, then yes, you would know w/o a doubt that there is always something new to do and enjoy 365 days a year for you and 10's of 1000's of other people too. If by Fairmount Lofts you mean out near Hemphill or Berry, then yes it is a bit suspect.

[safly]

Actually David. In respect to how the city takes care of the Grackel problems, FW may have dallas beat on the gunshots per hour activity. But I get what you are trying to say. And any crime problems dtdallas has faced can easily be preventable. Remember, downtown dallas is much much more vast than with what people consider our downtown scope, SSquare. FW's is small, unique, and very manageable. But most def. not worth the living cost. And as for a market assoc. with DTFW living. It is all dependant on how much FW Magazine, DFWST, and the like of can pub up a story or salespitch on the AMAZING benefits of DTFW Living.

John: Need emoticon for GAG.

And yes, that is Chicago. Home of the Candyman.

I don't mind the whole dallas CC bickering and political activism going on ther. I even commend them for allowing the media to expose that feature. It seems that they have more at stake than us, at least they convey that assumption. Can't say much about the FWCC, but you can surely hear a pin drop on a Smurf.

[mosteijn]

And yes, that is Chicago. Home of the Candyman.

Ok...how does that help me find a rendering of Pecan Place?

feaguru: read my post about Fairmount in the Magnolia thread.

[feaguru]

I have lived in chi-town, dallas, tampa (burbs at least)...and here is my predicament. I want to buy something, but I am getting the feeling the prices just so high for what you get. For 300k, you get something that built urban (I dont want to knock any architecture), but it really lacks what truly makes it urban (I think). Exactly how far are pecan place townhomes from the "action"? Can you walk there? I have seen them...but cannot gauge the distance. This may be the closest thing in my price range. I just dont understand how my dad just got a 2500 sq ft townhome in Tampa (where things are really booming) in a great area...for 250k. And my only choice at the level is 1600 sq ft in a "so-so" area. I am not knocking fort worth at all, this where I live for now, I am just trying to be realistic and decide if when I go to sell I am going to regret the decision. Will these values hold in Fort Worth? If they do, I guess its a moot point...that is my main concern. I would rather live there than in my apt. BUT I just keep going back to the fact you can get so much more elsewhere...and I wonder if this whole fort worth boom is overrated.

[safly]

If DTdallas, dthouston, and dtaustin cannot reach those numbers (differences) by even half of what San Diego has done, then come on. Do you really think the analogy will fit hear in FORT WORTH? San Diego has beaches and coastal living. They have La Jolla, mecca for garden and CClub golf enthusiasts. They are minutes from Mexico, the much nicer parts when it comes to towns within 1 hour south of the border (like Cabo). The worlds most famous zoo and a Sea World. Apples and Oranges or Mangoes need not apply in this clever little attempt to justify any DTFW living market. Light years would best describe the market, and it seems to me that feaguru is not waiting that long. DTFW can't even get an Anthroplogie store, and I've tried. Don't even start with what FW DOES NOT have and will not get for quite a while. Hint: Paper or Plastic.

As for the grackel problem.
Q:Why won't they just feed/house them near the rail yards?
A:Too simple of a solution for them cowboys.

[safly]

Interesting thought on the roosting periods correlation to concrete urban temps. I have thought about urban radiant temps for quite some time, especially when I contemplated building a rooftop greenery at the HPL, in my backyard patio area. Those suckers would flock in by the thousands every day around sunset in only certain months of the year (would explain/support roosting theory). As for what shape an area is, I don't quite follow you on that, unless you are implying that those shapes conserve or radiate heat more effectively. Perhaps the city's PWLife dept. should look into that notion and create a heat source that would tap into the suns radiant solar energy. I'd spread em all along the perimeter of the DTFW, near the Trinity, and of course hoook em up to power generators for use to emit harmless laser beams. Someone told me that an attempt to feed them birdfood on Main St. a while back ago had failed. It seems that they are not interested in that seed, very strange. To be honest as for the Main St. area between 8th and 9th, I have never even see them feed on bread for the most part.


I wonder if installing spraymisters throughout the DTFW tree lines would scurry them off ? In general, it would be nice to have them on the trees come summer time.

[safly]

I agree with the "comfort zones" theory. Why else would so many high income residence want to live in Scottsdale, AZ? Appreciation assoc. with "comfort zones" does impact a local economy. However, implying that those are targets I seek involving the negatives of DTFW living. Are you saying that NOT having a grocery store in DTFW supports a "comfort zone"? UR right in the sense that it is what drives the values acheived in the S.California area, I did notice that while living in L.A. and S.Bay area of L.A. County. Once you headed into the valley area in mid-day, prepare to sweat it up. It is due to the Pacific Breezes being forced to redirect or whirpool back into the areas in between the Ocean facing mountains and the source. The Santa Ana winds were of phenomenal status over there, I could not be able to explain it as of now. The smog concentration is also due to the Mountain sides redirecting pollution back into the inland area.

What I see FW doing to meet a demand for DTFW living can EASILY be accomplished by the likes of Dallas, Southlake, Frisco, NRH and Arlington. Though I CAN see a stronger market for Trinity Riverfront property, since it is a finite source or LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION. As for the Tower, I still see as Hype for it's Dollar and can always say that it can be duplicated anywhere else. Plus, it was a renovation, not a new build construction. And it is a bit limited in accomodations too for a TX condo.

I would estimate that about 45-55% of the current DFW Metroplex workforce pop. will commute an avg. of 35 total miles or more to work and back/weekday. So with numbers like that willing to commute from one end of the Metroplex to the other just for work, I don't see the Tower and the likes as being a haven or the ultimate answer for commuters, unless N.Texas Region TAuth. decides to scrap all tollway and light rail projects for the next 30 years. Then I see the urgent demand of a "comfort zone" in a DTFW or DTDallas setting RE market.

Q: What REALLY does DTFW have to offer that NO ONE ELSE CAN offer? We must first examine and dissect the relevancy of that Q to the current market situation (DTFW living demand). After establishing those examples, then we must put a relevant price tag for the demand of IT, in relation/comparison to similiar markets/situations, and disimiliar markets/situations. Agreeing that IT is a finite resource, product, or thing. This research and postulating would explain or support the premise of why the most expensive aggregate home or land values are that of directly or near E and W coastal lining ocean front properties w/ a municipality (exclude Everglades and wetlands). The same could hold true as to why the inner most properties of the country (landlocked, plains) are aggregatly lesser valued.


Ex: One cannot relate/support the current market trend for the Tower pricing (product), because we have a Trinity River flow/fork (finite source) just north of it. Unless the Trinity River scope was reserved not to be designated for any future residential development(s) indefinately.

Something for the Forum to respond to. Very interesting.

[feaguru]

I checked out the spot where the pecan place townhomes are to be built this weekend and here are my thoughts:

The good:
-Rooftop terrace
-Relatively close to downtown

The bad:
-Close to a railroad (will there be noise issues?)
-Close to a road/highway...problems there?
-Several homes in very bad shape that are adjacent (some will be torn down, but some are holdouts)
-Bad view of downtown because of the parking garages
-About a half mile from anything downtown really...in a questionable area I would want to walk in at night
-1600 sq ft for 275k!

As a reference point, my dad has been buying a few properties in Tampa...and with new developments like this people go into a lottery to see if they are lucky enough to get to purchase one. In contrast, only 3 of 27 units here have a "soft" committment (meaning they can back out without penalty).

This is my take on, I would love to hear other opinions.

[cberen1]

The bad:
-Close to a railroad (will there be noise issues?)
-Close to a road/highway...problems there?
-Several homes in very bad shape that are adjacent (some will be torn down, but some are holdouts)
-Bad view of downtown because of the parking garages
-About a half mile from anything downtown really...in a questionable area I would want to walk in at night
-1600 sq ft for 275k!

The walk to the lively stuff downtown is really pretty easy. Short of actually living amongst the bars, that's about as close as you get in any metropolitan area. The difference is maybe tied more to public transportation than distance.

I don't think the railroad is much of an issue. It's nothing like living in Lincoln Park with the L right behind your townhome. Trains are infrequent and relatively slow.

The bad homes are going to be short lived. Price will force them out.

Price is probably the most compelling deterent to investment, but it's a great deterent of other things as well. If they can get the townhomes sold at that price it's going to prevent a lot of nonsense in the immediate area.

As to the ever positive views of safly: The argument that something must be completely unique and impossible to duplicate to have market viability is untenable. The only town with something that can not be duplicated anywhere else is Las Vegas (legal gambling and prositution).

[mosteijn]

John, do MU1 and MU2 require setbacks too? I would hope that it would at least be optional...

Anyways, I think aside from the setback this project looks awesome. 1st street is going to be unrecognizeable once Struhs is done with it.





There were a couple of other signs on First street seperated from the main townhome development. I wonder if their renderings are just placeholders or the actual designs of those buildings.

[feaguru]

Nice pictures...but how long and no guarantee this will be realized. They are priced like it is already a realization. Least thats my opinion. You have to be real risktaker to go for that.

[John T Roberts]

Jonny, MU-1 and MU-2 don't have setbacks. You can build right up to the property line. However, there are certain factors that can force a setback, including the building line of existing structures and zones. The "H - Central Business District" zone that can only occur in downtown is the one where there is no building line at all and if the owner wishes to set the building back from the property line, then he may do so. I don't think the Pecan Place properties are zoned H, MU-1, or MU-2 at the current time. If this has changed, please let me know. By the way, great pictures. Thanks for bailing me out and providing them.

[mosteijn]

Ah, that does make sense considering the couple of houses still remaining on 1st. But according the zoning map on the city's website, all of the southern side of 1st street west of the Cotten Belt tracks is zoned H, and that's where this rendering is. Oh well, we don't even know if this is the final rendering or not, so maybe I should just withold further comments.

Oh, and no problem about the pics. I had a couple of hours to kill after school, so I figured why not take some construction updates?

[John T Roberts]

Jonny, I was on the wrong side of 1st Street! I was thinking these were going to be built on the north side of the street. The south side is zoned H and the north is a mix of H and J zoning. The north side also has a Demolition Delay overlay on top of it. Anyway, now I can't explain the setback. Maybe someone with more information can explain why there is a setback for this project.

[safly]

The bad:
-Close to a railroad (will there be noise issues?)
-Close to a road/highway...problems there?
-Several homes in very bad shape that are adjacent (some will be torn down, but some are holdouts)
-Bad view of downtown because of the parking garages
-About a half mile from anything downtown really...in a questionable area I would want to walk in at night
-1600 sq ft for 275k!

The walk to the lively stuff downtown is really pretty easy. Short of actually living amongst the bars, that's about as close as you get in any metropolitan area. The difference is maybe tied more to public transportation than distance.

I don't think the railroad is much of an issue. It's nothing like living in Lincoln Park with the L right behind your townhome. Trains are infrequent and relatively slow.

The bad homes are going to be short lived. Price will force them out.

Price is probably the most compelling deterent to investment, but it's a great deterent of other things as well. If they can get the townhomes sold at that price it's going to prevent a lot of nonsense in the immediate area.

As to the ever positive views of safly: The argument that something must be completely unique and impossible to duplicate to have market viability is untenable. The only town with something that can not be duplicated anywhere else is Las Vegas (legal gambling and prositution).

LV has gambling. Reno has legalized prostitution.

It is a unique set up in downtown, but it does not warrant those prices set before a market trend (3 yrs.). FW has no idea where it will go in the next 5 yrs. We can all just sit back and wait for the TRV, but in the mean time Southlake is progressing even further, and there is escalating demand to even live over there by the DFW Airport area. If FW gets a San Antonio sized Int'l Airport built near the N or W FW area, WHOOOOAAAHH Nelly! Now that would be unique. What do you suppose will happen when more DTFW residential developments occur in the next 5 years with mixed lease/purchase? How will this fragile little market react then? Redhead, no need to reply a post, WE all know your POV. But let's see other Forum members speculate. Like I have said before, these DTFW residentials are investment properties at best. In the coming years you will see a tremendous rate of turnover/defaults from this one little area. Bad news then unless DTFW and area rakes in new/more higher paying jobs and turns it around.

As to the ever positive views of safly: The argument that something must be completely unique and impossible to duplicate to have market viability is untenable. The only town with something that can not be duplicated anywhere else is Las Vegas (legal gambling and prositution).

Wrong, absolutely wrong. Gambling and prostitution can and dooes occur in any town. Even little old DTFW.
Now put a fantastic entertainment district, 5 star hotels, 5 star resorts, unparalleled nightlife, and a chance to legally win $10 million with the pull of a 50 cent lever. Then yes, you got yourself a VERY UNIQUE product. In turn will be VERY ATTRACTIVE to visitors and residences, when regulated and well promoted. Great jobs over there too. It seems to me that FW has not built itself in to what iti is trying to sell, FOR NOW. DTFW and FW in general has only a finite window of oppt. to do that every year. And as the likes of Arlington, Southlake, Austin, Dallas, and San Antonio do offer more over an extended period of time. FW will continue to lose shorthanded. But FW, again, can turn it around.

[mosteijn]

It appears I didn't look at Struhs' website carefully enough. He has an entire page dedicated to the Pecan Place Townhomes with a site plan, floorplans, and renderings. Click here: http://www.pecanplac.../townhomes.html.

Here's the big rendering:

[mrowl]

It appears I didn't look at Struhs' website carefully enough. He has an entire page dedicated to the Pecan Place Townhomes with a site plan, floorplans, and renderings. Click here: http://www.pecanplac.../townhomes.html.

Here's the big rendering:

crud, his site is down now.

[redhead]

New link: uptownfortworth.com

[mosteijn]

(John, you need a jaw-drop smiley) WOW! I've been waiting for Struhs to get that site online...boy am I glad I did. Is that a rendering for the Lincoln Apts. on the "Luxury for Lease" page? Looks amazing!