571 replies to this topic

[NSFW]

The city of Fort Worth is making 8 proposals. 

 

http://dfw.cbslocal....-cities-amazon/

[renamerusk]

This is the first official mention that I've seen about Panther Island as a possible location...

 

 An editorial in the paper of record, nope not the DMN, but the FWST is huge.  The toothpaste is out of the tube. Wearing blinders so that you prevent seeing or mentioning the best bit of dumb luck  - a controversial, contentions flood control & urban renewal project - that Fort Worth now finds itself in just to be a good neighbor will be possible for now on.  The FWST has made a case for the City when the  City's Leadership has been hesitant to do so.

 

The RFP suggested that each metro area of a certain size submit a single proposal; presumably its best proposal.  FWST is declaring that P.I. is the best proposal to match what Amazon is seeking.  But in the end, Amazon will select the best site for its 2HQ and I believe that it will do so if the best site happens to be among multiple offers within a metro.

 

Amazon may not select Fort Worth, but at least the case for the City is no longer a secret.

[Volare]

The city of Fort Worth is making 8 proposals. 

 

 

 

Wow. Sounds like a good way to get ignored. 

[Austin55]

I would love to know specifics on each. Panther Island and? Probably  few sites in Alliance, Walsh, and along the Chisolm Trail. I wonder if Clearfork could be an option? Butler? 

[JBB]

An editorial in the paper of record, nope not the DMN, but the FWST is huge.

Not to split hairs, but that was an article by a reporter, not an opinion piece by the editorial board.

[renamerusk]

 

An editorial in the paper of record, nope not the DMN, but the FWST is huge.

Not to split hairs, but that was an article by a reporter, not an opinion piece by the editorial board.

 

 

Sorry for being too excited.  It being an article makes less important and unworthy of its impact.

[JBB]

I hope you didn't glean that from something I said. The fact that a city leader is talking about it is exciting.

[johnfwd]

I think Panther Island would be a good site for a second corporate headquarters.  The transportation infrastructure criteria should not be as stringent a determining factor for a corporate office as it would be for a distribution center.  The fact that the area is still undeveloped may be a good thing.  Once fully developed there may not be sufficient available land for a corporate headquarters.

.

[renamerusk]

I hope you didn't glean that from something I said. The fact that a city leader is talking about it is exciting.

 

I apologize.  I found your post about the " first time" mentioning of P.I. as a hopeful sign.  You are correct in that it is not an opinion but a report. 

 

Perhaps even though our leadership and our media continue to demonstrate a lukewarm or a disinterest of actually becoming the 2HQ-Amazon, the report does spread the news to the general public who by in large does not have what I believe is a clear understanding of what Trinity River Vision is about. 

 

Any bit of information, even if it is a "slip of tongue" in a report, is a beneficial spotlight on Fort Worth.

[rriojas71]

I sent an email to the Trinity River Vision regarding any proposals to Amazon being made and I received an email reply back from the Marketing Manager Wendy Stane. Here is what the email said.

"Thank you for the interest in Panther Island. The TRVA is working very closely with the Fort Worth Chamber of Commerce and City of Fort Worth for on-site considerations for the Amazon Headquarters. J


WENDY STANE

Marketing Manager

Trinity River Vision Authority | Panther Island"

[JBB]

The city of Fort Worth is making 8 proposals.

 
Wow. Sounds like a good way to get ignored.

It makes it look like they don't have confidence in a single site or at least 1 or 2.

[rriojas71]

The city of Fort Worth is making 8 proposals.

 Wow. Sounds like a good way to get ignored.

It makes it look like they don't have confidence in a single site or at least 1 or 2.

Or it could mean that we have so many places that Amazon can take their pick with a site that truly suits their needs. My partner works with Ann Zadeh a lot and I know one of the places they are marketing to Amazon is the land at the intersection of Forest Park Blvd. and I-30.

[renamerusk]

#1 - I sent an email to the Trinity River Vision regarding any proposals to Amazon being made and I received an email reply back from the Marketing Manager Wendy Stane. Here is what the email said.

"Thank you for the interest in Panther Island. The TRVA is working very closely with the Fort Worth Chamber of Commerce and City of Fort Worth for on-site considerations for the Amazon Headquarters. J


WENDY STANE

Marketing Manager

Trinity River Vision Authority | Panther Island"

 

 

 

#2 - It makes it look like they don't have confidence in a single site or at least 1 or 2.

 

 

 

#3 - Or it could mean that we have so many places that Amazon can take their pick with a site that truly suits their needs. My partner works with Ann Zadeh a lot and I know one of the places they are marketing to Amazon is the land at the intersection of Forest Park Blvd. and I-30......

 

#1 - I sent an email to TRV also and today I received the same reply.   It is encouraging news that TRV/P.I. is on this.  It tells me that FW CoC and Mayor Price will not be able to float a plausible explanation in regards to matters of this importance and P.I.

 

#2 - It makes makes the City look like it is not serious and can not find its way. If we are lucky, Fort Worth may only get one bite at the apple; and we should make the best of it.

 

#3 - Where at the intersection Forest Park Blvd. and I-30 is there sufficient land at this location?  Is there single ownership at this site ready to sell and that would be ready to develop within months?

[Now in Denton]

I was a minority just a few weeks ago when I suggested that TRV have a couple of skyscrapers "to bookend"  DT and TRV. Now people are open to a "variance" ? lol And another point I made about building a skyscraper on the Westchester site I was a minority on that one also.  If people want a Amazon HQ in downtown Fort Worth. Thinking outside of the box to land Amazon will be key. 

 

I been hearing a lot of numbers and comparisons thrown about on what Amazon wants 300 to 100 acres. It would take eight Burnet Plazas. And that is not even talking about Amazon employees living in DT. Well no point is discussing this any further. Because Dallas won it already...well according to Dallas Urban members lol. I suggest you look at one of renderings they have for DT Dallas Amazon HQ. I must say looks pretty cool looking.

 

Then we have Ross Perot Jr. If Fort Worth pushed for a Amazon HQ in Alliance I think Perot would back Fort Worth. But if Fort Worth wants a DT Fort Worth HQ. I think Perot would back DT Dallas. If that is the case. We really need Mr. Bass to help push a DT HQ. And if that is not enough every major city in the U.S. and Canada wants to land this. Interesting times ahead.

   

https://www.dallasne...-bid-amazon-hq2 

Well it happened Perot Jr is pushing with a downtown Dallas Amazon HQ2. But is joining up with the Hunts. Mark Cuban may join. But he don't Like Perot Jr.    So I say again. If Fort Worth even has a shot at this. We need the Bass family more than ever. Dallas seems to have a lot more deep pocket business men and women than Fort Worth. The only other power brokers I can think of outside of Bass. Would be Bob Simpson ? 

[renamerusk]

 ...So I say again. If Fort Worth even has a shot at this. We need the Bass family more than ever. Dallas seems to have a lot more deep pocket business men and women than Fort Worth. The only other power brokers I can think of outside of Bass. Would be Bob Simpson ?

 

I am following the "Amazon Dallas Project" (ADP) and the best description of what is going on there is "Nipple Wars - when a litter blind puppies crawl over each other for a meal".

 

By the hour, developers from Uptown to Midtown, from Oak Cliff to Fair Park, from Trinity Park to Deep Ellum are making such a manic attempt to be the one that Dallas anoints for its sole bid or,  as they would see it,  the sole bid for North Texas.  Amazon is having a detrimental impact on Dallas' developers class pitting them against another and taking no prisoners.  How crazy you ask? Midtown (Valley View) is touting as one of its assets, Love Field International Airport. haha!

 

Fort Worth is far better off being as far removed from the chaotic and frenzy ADP as it can be.

 

Fort Worth need not be chaotic or in a frenzy - better that it be honest and telling its own story.  It can and should by now designate the one bid that it will submit to Amazon; and of course, it is Panther Island, hands down.

 

I am beginning to wonder out loud if Bass believes it is in his own best interest to have a mega power broker like Amazon within is mist.  Amazon would tower over Sundance Square relegating it to second status and Amazon would establish a new commercial center that would displace the 32 block "mall" that is SSQ and the mere suggestion that Amazon could happen here may be an explanation as to why Price is quiet and is offering sites clearly out of the sphere of Bass' SSQ.  I have argued that the best hope for Fort Worth comes from Congresswoman Granger and parties that are invested in TRV. They are from my reckoning are not too closely associated with SSQ.

 

Finally, I agree with the comments of a fellow member that Amazon already knows where it is going to build 2HQ; but that it will make its decision on real unvarnished facts, not promises or potential sites that are not well along the way as being ready.  Amazon is as near to genius as any company that comes to mind.  I hope that looking at the incredible readiness and positioning of P.I. to Downtown, to river activity, to affordable living, to a city of great museums, culture, Van Cliburn, food and western hospitality that Amazon will at least be able to look pass the open brawling that is taking place in Dallas and at least look at Fort Worth as a distinct and different place than Dallas.

 

Since posting add the following -

 

Downtown Dallas Inc - offering iconic skyscrapers

Texas Central Railway (HSR) - offering the Cedars

Irving Las Colinas Urban Center

Allen, Texas

and the beat go on!!!

[Now in Denton]

Hard to keep track of all the local HQ2 news. But this morning NBC 5 Debra Ferguson. I felt made the most clarified report. Today all those in the metroplex that want to join a joint effort will report to the Fort Worth and Dallas chamber of commerce. They in turn will give the joint effort package to Amazon. If we make the first cut. Then the joint effort disbands. And it is every city for themselves to win.  

 

I guess I can live with that plan for now. But I hope Fort Worth is working on some Fort Worth Amazon renderings. I would LOVE to see it !   

[renamerusk]

Is there one Dallas Fort Worth Chamber?

 

What allegiance does the FWCoC have to Dallas chapter members and vice a versa?

 

Who evaluates and selects the winner to go onto the next level?
 

Do they not see how this is a recipe for all out war, cronyism and conflicts of interest.

 

One thing that I find unacceptable is publicly funded incentives being passed on to extremely wealthy and successful developers.  If a city wishes to submit a bid to develop or reuse an existing publicly held or government agency facility, then additional public incentives would be appropriate.  Many of the bids are from privately held or owned entities which should disqualify them from the bidding process.

 

In Dallas, Fair Park would be an appropriate bidder; in Fort Worth, TRV would be an appropriate bidder.  Perot, Cuban, and other private developers should not get incentives from the taxpayers; they should foot the bill because they will receive the total benefit of a Amazon tenancy.

[AndyN]

Interesting article in the Dallas Biz Journal and something I had thought of. Put the HQ2 on top of the bullet train station ala Tokyo's Shinjuku Station.

 

https://www.bizjourn...azon-s-hq2.html

[Austin55]

For me, it's weird to think about PI being a good site for Amazon since it's seems that it has always been planned as mostly a dense, lowrise filled primarily residential area. It would take a big change of those plans for Amazon (or any other major corp) to establish there. I feel downtown proper is better suited in almost every way, with the exception of space being a non issue in PI.

 

Here's my bold suggestion. Do something Similar to Hudson Yards in NYC or Schuylkill Yards in Philadelphia and build a massive complex on top of the rail yards on the east side of downtown between 35 and the ITC.

 

 

Interesting article in the Dallas Biz Journal and something I had thought of. Put the HQ2 on top of the bullet train station ala Tokyo's Shinjuku Station.

 

https://www.bizjourn...azon-s-hq2.html

 

Do it east of the ITC and continue the HSR line onwards from Dallas.

[JBB]

This is probably a tangent better for another thread, but serious talk about high speed rail in Texas is laughable. Making it part of any serious Amazon proposal borders on fraud.

[AndyN]

Do it east of the ITC and continue the HSR line onwards from Dallas.

 

I can't help but wonder if that is impractical due to the fact that the tracks east of the ITC are all operated on by diesel-electric locomotives whereas the eastern sites are (mostly) electric locomotives. Not sure about the logistics of having to provide adequate ventilation.

[renamerusk]

This is probably a tangent better for another thread, but serious talk about high speed rail in Texas is laughable. Making it part of any serious Amazon proposal borders on fraud.

 

 

Interesting article in the Dallas Biz Journal and something I had thought of. Put the HQ2 on top of the bullet train station ala Tokyo's Shinjuku Station.....

 

JBB, I agree with you.

 

Only Matthews Southwest and TCR think that is a good idea.  The competition will rightfully view that as the hair-brain idea that it is. Why would Amazon be in the least in a rail connection between Dallas and Houston and how does that make any business sense when Amazon is a global corporation. 

 

The ideas that are coming out of Dallas are bordering on desperation and will effectively divert attention from the single legitimate site location that Dallas may have to offer as its bid. For Dallas and Fort Worth by association, the tried and true saying applies: "Cannot see the forest for the trees".

 

Certainly further the case for Fort Worth to jump ship and go for it on its own.

[NSFW]

News story last night on WFAA. Mayor Price mentions Panther Island and Sundance Square. 

 

http://www.wfaa.com/...n-hq2/479664373

[John T Roberts]

That was a pretty good story.  I have met Brandom Gengelbach and he is a bright, young, and energetic fellow.  I think he will be a great asset for the Fort Worth Chamber of Commerce.

[pelligrini]

I just heard Fort Worth mentioned on 'Wait Wait Don't Tell Me' (the NPR news show) in relation to the Amazon headquarters. Frisco came up first stating 'we will rearrange our town for you'. Then we came up as 'If you like Dallas you might also like Fort Worth...'

 

Can't link to the show segment, as it is currently airing.

[Now in Denton]

The thing about high speed rail. Dallas can promise the moon and stars all they want to Amazon. But the fact is Dallas does not have one inch of HSR anymore than Fort Worth. If HSR gets built or not. Fort Worth can just as add HSR to our proposal just as much as Dallas is. After all HSR was or is proposed to come to Fort Worth also. 

[renamerusk]

That was a pretty good story.  I have met Brandom Gengelbach and he is a bright, young, and energetic fellow.  I think he will be a great asset for the Fort Worth Chamber of Commerce.

 

The story is a good one even though it came a little late for me; better late than never.  I am a cable watcher and do not watch much local broadcasting by in large but I think that WFAA does a fairer job of reporting Fort Worth than either the two original FW local stations: Channel 11 and 5.  Now, I believe that the reporting recently done by the FWST and perhaps the quiet diplomacy of Panther Island have caused Mayor Price to become cool on the idea of ETJ.  I hope that my contacting Congresswoman Granger's District Office and Trinity River Vision may have given them some idea of the passion that is being stirred around this Amazon Project.

 

Like her counterpart Mayor Rawlings, who has been vigorously working all along on the behalf of Dallas Proper,  Mayor Price, it seems, is finally willing to step up and give us in Fort Worth the feeling that our self interest is her #1 priority. 

 

If you have the opportunity to read the other local forum, you will find that there is a furious call for Amazon to be located in Dallas, and more specifically in Downtown Dallas. There is no patience at all for Fort Worth or the suburbs.

 

In the two occasions that I have watched an interview of Mr. Gengelbach, I have been disappointed.  As a representative of Fort Worth, he continues to voice the false narrative that Dallas and Fort Worth is a "city". He may be bright, young and energetic, however, I think that he is not as partisan as he should be when it comes to his primary role of putting the self interest of Fort Worth at the top of any issue.

 

I am not anti-Dallas just pro-Fort Worth; but the Chamber of Commerce should be pro-Fort Worth and a whole lot less pro-regional.  The population of North Texas is of little interest to the people of Fort Worth; it mainly matters to marketers.  At the macro level, what matters to the people of Fort Worth is Fort Worth. 

[Dylan]

Fort Worth would see few (if any) benefits if Amazon were to relocate to Dallas or one of its suburbs.

 

I'm disappointed to hear so many Fort Worth leaders say they would be happy with Amazon HQ2 anywhere in North Texas.

[John T Roberts]

PeopleAreStrange, could it be that our leaders realize that we really don't have a chance?

[renamerusk]

PeopleAreStrange, could it be that our leaders realize that we really don't have a chance?

 

I'm surprised by that suggestion. Disappointed to see it here.

 

Fort Worth has invested both capital and political resources to Trinity River Vision.  We may not all agree with the TRV, but it would be a dereliction of duty for Fort Worth to resign from the bidding and by doing so cede Amazon to other less prepared and unremarkable cities in the region.  How on earth will the leadership of Fort Worth explain or continue to promise "great things" for P.I. to the City if it is found that our leaders concluded that we really don't have a chance?  How do they know that Amazon is not interested; how does anyone know what their chances are?

 

The chance of Fort Worth as a deserving candidate is a good as any in Texas if Texas is viewed as acceptable location for A2HQ. 

 

We have an international airport; we have the same tax situation; we have a vibrant Downtown; we have nationally recognized museums; we have a top-5 zoo; we have affordable housing; we have one of the better and well cared for river front in the state; we have a proud western culture; we have great food. 

 

Amazon probably has reams of information about the dozens of cities that are making their pitch; I think you can include information about Fort Worth. 

 

In North Texas, there are only two cities that realistically stand a chance to get Amazon: Fort Worth and Dallas.  The two are the only cities that are similar to Seattle and the core lifestyle that Amazon's employees enjoy and are accustomed to; not the commuter horrors associated with living in a suburb.

 

Dallas has one potential site that it owns and controls - Fair Park, but FP would take a long time to get prepared.  Other Dallas sites are contingent on the coming together of developers who have not even created the legal partnerships that would have to be agreed upon and signed before a formal bid could be accepted.

 

Fort Worth (TRWD) has one potential site that it owns and controls - P.I., and is shovel ready with the building of infrastructure now visibly underway.

 

In the end, Fort Worth may lose to a more worth city but it will not lose to any city other than Dallas in the region. 

[Dylan]

Here's the NBC 5 story referenced earlier. http://www.nbcdfw.co...-448628383.html

 

Again, Brandom Gengelbach essentially says Fort Worth cannot handle Amazon by itself, and must have regional support. Ugh.

[Dylan]

PeopleAreStrange, could it be that our leaders realize that we really don't have a chance?

 

Fort Worth's chances won't suddenly be higher if Dallas and its suburbs were to support a FW site (which they won't).

 

EDIT again: I made my previous post without refreshing the page, and was still thinking about my previous post when reading your post.

 

That said, as I've already said, Fort Worth won't benefit much from a site in Dallas or its suburbs.

Edited by PeopleAreStrange, 30 September 2017 - 06:02 PM.

[renamerusk]

.... Brandom Gengelbach ( and he)  is a bright, young, and energetic fellow.  I think he will be a great asset for the Fort Worth Chamber of Commerce.

 

 

Here's the NBC 5 story referenced earlier. http://www.nbcdfw.co...-448628383.html

 

Again, Brandom Gengelbach essentially says Fort Worth cannot handle Amazon by itself, and must have regional support. Ugh.

 

 With friends like Mr. Gengelbach why does Fort Worth need enemies?  What specifically does he points out that is lacking about Fort Worth?  He contradicts and undermines himself when he goes on air and says "two cities, one the 11th largest and the other the 17th largest city in the nation" when he does not put out a similar statement that Dallas cannot handle Amazon by itself? 

 

I have never met Mr. Gengelbach, but he is behaving like an agent for a Dallas oriented, dominated regional force; not as an ambassador for Fort Worth.

 

 As reported in Fort Worth Magazine (2016), part of a press release from the Fort Worth Chamber of Commerce upon the hiring of  Brandom Gengelbach -

 

 .....Brandom Gengelbach grew up in Houston and the Plano-Addison Area.  Says Mr. Gengelbach - "There is no better place in the country to live, work and raise a family than Fort Worth and the surrounding area".......

 

Does seem to me that he is a bit conflicted about the lone capacity of Fort Worth.

[John T Roberts]

I was being a little pessimistic in my comments. 

 

I met Mr. Gengelbach within a short amount of time from moving here to work for the Chamber.  That was well before the Amazon HQ2 came up.  He came from his last job in Tennessee, and I remember he said that he has worked all over the place.  I also believe he said that his wife and in-laws are from Plano.

[Now in Denton]

Nothing personal againt Mr. Gengelbach. But he had his work cut out for him before HQ2.  That is why I posted the link of fortune 500 companies and other notable companies in the DFW area. The lopsided list is undeniable towards Dallas and Collin Co. That is why I am personally getting cold toward regional efforts.

 

Yes I agree it works for the most part to everyone benefit. To a point. But Fort Worth constantly second place to company relocation is getting old. Some blame belongs to past Chamber of Commerce. City Hall , Past Mayors and City governments.  Seems like for every facebook we won. We lost a D.R. Horton and XTO. I just hope Mr. Gengelbach don't fall for the same old formula. Because it don't seem to be working. 

[arch-image]

Lots being talked about on 6-800 acres needed, not sure where that came from, most of the proposals I have seen are way smaller and to get 8mil sq feet you don't need near that much space unless your doing low rise stuff and I dont see that happening myself. I could see this feasibly being done in 10 -12 buildings which would only take 20-30 acres, maybe less. Also, don't forget, the 8 mil SQF as well as the issue on people that has been mentioned is over a 20 year period, to 2027. So it isn't like it is all needed at once. I think there is a good many of areas around the core of downtown that could accommodate a project like this. I am a bit surprised no one mentioned the T&P, has the 500k of space available for phase 1, 6 vacant acres behind it, another I think 4 beside it, various lots across the street as well as mentioned lots by Calhoun. You could even while doing the road extension add a tunnel and do something on the other side of 30 along Vickery right behind it. Rail access, "T" access for what little we have to offer in transport rail. I think the part kills Fort Worth is the transportation issue. Lots of options though, Panther, Forest Park area along University or even 7th possibly, or possibly some of the new large ranches that have recently begun development although I think they want central core.

[renamerusk]

Lots being talked about on 6-800 acres needed, not sure where that came from, most of the proposals I have seen are way smaller and to get 8mil sq feet you don't need near that much space unless your doing low rise stuff and I dont see that happening myself. I could see this feasibly being done in 10 -12 buildings which would only take 20-30 acres, maybe less. Also, don't forget, the 8 mil SQF as well as the issue on people that has been mentioned is over a 20 year period, to 2027.

 

 While it could be true that the initial demand will not be for 100 acres or greater, it is likely true that Amazon will not want to be constraint itself by not having enough room to expand or even shift the entirety of its headquarters to the new location bringing with it the employees from the Northwest if it makes economic sense to do so.

 

A corporate campus suggests that the Amazon will build out as and when needed and having 100-200 acres at its disposal is something that it is banking for itself today in anticipation of future demand.  20-30 acres might be too constraining.

 

Local campuses for perspective -

 

    UTA (425 acres)   TCU (275 acres/350 total)   TWU (75 acres)

 

The one thing that seems to be missed is that there is very few or none at all  20-30 unoccupied acres within the core.  Getting that land free and into the hands of one single entity is going to be extremely time consuming if at all possible.

 

200 acres is 1/4 of Panther Island.  P.I can easily accommodate Amazon with room left over for private residential development and private development of support businesses, restaurants, medical facilities and public green spaces to compliment the Amazon campus.

 

And all of this is in the hands of one single developer -TRWD/TRV.

[youngalum]

we have no chance here--think east coast

[renamerusk]

we have no chance here--think east coast

 

  The East Coast can be too cold and it is not a central continental location making it three time zones away from Seattle. That being said, Baltimore looks promising even though its a longer shot than us.

[rriojas71]

we have no chance here--think east coast

As much as it pains me to say it... I agree youngalum

We just don't have the hi-tech and white collar workforce already on hand that Amazon is in search of. Through in the fact that our Public Transit is terrible, with no immediate plans to improve it, as well as a lack of Established dense walkable neighborhoods in our central core and the writing is on the wall.

My guess is Boston, Atlanta & Denver as the likeliest choices.

[renamerusk]

 

we have no chance here--think east coast

As much as it pains me to say it... I agree youngalum

We just don't have the hi-tech and white collar workforce already on hand that Amazon is in search of. Through in the fact that our Public Transit is terrible, with no immediate plans to improve it, as well as a lack of Established dense walkable neighborhoods in our central core and the writing is on the wall.

My guess is Boston, Atlanta & Denver as the likeliest choices.

 

The workforce is fluid.  Historically, labor has migrated to where there is work.  Applicants will pour in from all 50 states to where ever Amazon is located.  I don't think that available workforce will be a problem for a majority of the bidders who can reasonably expect an influx of qualified applicants to relocate to the successful bidding city seeking employment with Amazon.

 

Public Transit will ultimately not be that important; if it is, then NYC and WDC are the top two contenders; and I don't believe that either will be a Top 5 finalist simply because they are #1 and #2 in the U.S. for public transit.NYC and WDC have other issues that will be negative factor. 

A sizeable percentage of Amazon workers live within close walking and cycling distances from the Seattle Hqrs. and negates the need for public transit overall. The same lifestyle will be replicated at A2Hqr. where ever it is located. 

 

A factor that is not being considered, but that businesses likely do consider is time zones -  Denver is in the time zone which is at the greatest disadvantage to West and East Coasts populations.  Atlanta and Boston are 3 times zones away from Seattle.  Cities in the Central Time Zone are best positioned for air travel and business hours on either the East or West coasts.

 

U.S. Cities Public Transit Rankings -

 

https://smartasset.c...-transportation

[renamerusk]

Amazon will invest $5,000,000,000 in new infrastructure in the successful city.

 

Is Amazon likely to want to rehab existing structures; likely to want to turn to local developers and line their pockets as a tenant; likely to need Perot, Bass or Crow when Amazon can hire its on design team and pay for it out of pocket.  Why undertake the cumbersome code proceses or be at the behest of a real estate developer?

 

Isn't Amazon likely to bring in its own design team to supervise the entire project from cradle to grave?

 

Amazon most pressing need is land and general contractors to build Amazon City or like I to see -  Amazon Island.

[rriojas71]

[
The workforce is fluid.  Historically, labor has migrated to where there is work.  Applicants will pour in from all 50 states to where ever Amazon is located.  I don't think that available workforce will be a problem for a majority of the bidders who can reasonably expect an influx of qualified applicants to relocate to the successful bidding city seeking employment with Amazon.
 
Public Transit will ultimately not be that important; if it is, then NYC and WDC are the top two contenders; and I don't believe that either will be a Top 5 finalist simply because they are #1 and #2 in the U.S. for public transit.NYC and WDC have other issues that will be negative factor. 
A sizeable percentage of Amazon workers live within close walking and cycling distances from the Seattle Hqrs. and negates the need for public transit overall. The same lifestyle will be replicated at A2Hqr. where ever it is located. 
 
A factor that is not being considered, but that businesses likely do consider is time zones -  Denver is in the time zone which is at the greatest disadvantage to West and East Coasts populations.  Atlanta and Boston are 3 times zones away from Seattle.  Cities in the Central Time Zone are best positioned for air travel and business hours on either the East or West coasts.
 
https://smartasset.c...-transportation

Actually I think you are undervaluing the importance of mass transit. On the top of Amazon's wishlist is on-site access to mass transit. I believe they want it in place or a current plan in place before they even give consideration to their chosen city.

As far as a fluid workforce, they also stressed that they want lists of universities and statistics on the qualifications of local workers. That sounds to me that they want a place that has the qualified workers as well as a city that can continue to pump out the type of worker they are in search of. TCU is a good school, but academically it is average at best.

Also, I'm not sure how Denver is at more of a disadvantage due to time zones. It is 2 hours from the East Coast and 1 hour from the West Coast. Not much different from 2 to the West and 1 to the East as we are. Kinda a wash there IMO.

The only advantage we can offer is valuable land near our city center and the fact that they basically have a blank slate to create exactly what they want. That is where I believe that Panther Island stands a decent chance. More so if Amazon is willing to overlook their other requests which unfortunately I believe they find more important than cheap land.

Only time will tell.

[renamerusk]

Actually I think you are undervaluing the importance of mass transit.....

 

Also, I'm not sure how Denver is at more of a disadvantage due to time zones. It is 2 hours from the East Coast and 1 hour from the West Coast. Not much different from 2 to the West and 1 to the East as we are. Kinda a wash there IMO.

 

No, I am not undervaluing mass transit; simply thinking that it is not a deal breaker.  One of the ingredients that can be added to the mix is a bus network that can be flexible and serve as the bridge until a rail network can be implemented.  If Fort Worth was to become a finalist, mass transit would rocket to the top of the City's priorities and it would, no doubt, be placed on a fast track.

 

New York, Texas, California and Illinois are the top four states having 500 Fortune Corporations.  Texas and Illinois are in the Central Time Zone.  Aside from the financial center of NY and the silicon center of CA which are the industries that make up a large share of the list, the advantage of being centrally located cannot be dismissed.  Colorado, with 8-10 Fortune 500 Corporations statistically shows that companies do not see Denver as a major business center, but more as a recreational center.  Seattle and the West Coast are already aligned in time; getting more aligned with the East Coast while maintaining alignment with California and the West Coast suggests that a centrally located site is more advantageous than a Mountain Time Zone.

 

When real estate is a major factor in a RFP, it is determinant.  Mass transit can be built, land is finite.  A city can have the best transit system in the nation such as NYC, but if on Manhattan there is no land or the land is so expensive, then mass transit will not really matter.  I do not know the extent of what other cities have as their top asset; those assets can be transit, workforce, climate, quality of life but I do know that Fort Worth has a favorable quality of living standard of which people find so attractive; and I know that Fort Worth has the land.  And without the land, Amazon can not build the campus that it envisions.

 

I guess I could go on and on about this, but Fort Worth has to place its hope in showcasing that it has the land.

[panthercity]

When are they supposed to announce their choice?

[Austin55]

When are they supposed to announce their choice?

Bids are supposed to be in by the 19th. A decision is still months away.

[johnfwd]

News story last night on WFAA. Mayor Price mentions Panther Island and Sundance Square. 

 

http://www.wfaa.com/...n-hq2/479664373

I'm sure Mr. Gengelbach will be a great addition to the Fort Worth Chamber of Commerce.  But his quote in the above news report, "We are Dallas and Fort Worth..." isn't what I would have said to make a good first impression.  Maybe, if he had to say something regional, it should have been, "We are Fort Worth and Dallas..."

[renamerusk]

1.  The city of Fort Worth is making 8 proposals.

 

 

I hope you didn't glean that from something I said. The fact that a city leader is talking about it is exciting.

 

 

2.....Again, Brandom Gengelbach essentially says Fort Worth cannot handle Amazon by itself, and must have regional support. Ugh.

 

 

 

1.  News story last night on WFAA. Mayor Price mentions Panther Island and Sundance Square. .....

 

2. I'm sure Mr. Gengelbach will be a great addition to the Fort Worth Chamber of Commerce.  But his quote in the above news report, "We are Dallas and Fort Worth..." isn't what I would have said to make a good first impression.  Maybe, if he had to say something regional, it should have been, "We are Fort Worth and Dallas..."

 

Fort Worth Star Telegram (FWST) 9/27/17 -

 

"Panther Island is one of the few Fort Worth locations with enough space to accommodate Amazon's needs". FWST

 

"City and Chamber Officials [Fort Worth] have approached the Trinity River Vision Authority to put together an offer for Amazon detailing which parcels of land are available at the Panther Island site and where the company could potentially expand".  J. D. Granger, Executive Director TRVA

 

 

1. Initially Fort Worth seemed to be unsure about which site to bid as its proposal; but reading the tea leaves, it seems to have come around to Panther Island.  Sundance Square was a throw away suggestion I suppose to massage some egos.  Sundance Square (SSq) has a mental block when it comes to mid and high rise buildings and besides SSq has maxed out or is near being maxed out of land for development.

 

It has taken them awhile to come around, but I believe Fort Worth will be ready to go at this with its best foot forward.

 

2. Just say that Mr. Gengelbach has raised some suspicion about an understanding of who his primary client is.  When you advocate for a client, you don't normally promote the interests of other clients and should not be surprised with drawing some criticism.

[johnfwd]

2. Just say that Mr. Gengelbach has raised some suspicion about an understanding of who his primary client is.  When you advocate for a client, you don't normally promote the interests of other clients and should not be surprised with drawing some criticism.

 

 

Right.  In a subtle manner that was the point I was making in Post#197.

[renamerusk]

I couldn't find anything online to back this up, but I believe TRVA, TRWD, the city, and the corps of engineers are public and Streams and Valleys is a private non-profit. I believe TRVA is a tax payer funded arm of TRWD in place to carry out the TRV project.

 

So here is the angle that seems to be overlooked about the Amazon RFP - Incentives.

 

Mass transit, 1,000,000 metro, international airport, freeways are attributes that Amazon is seeking, but it is expecting substantial incentives, presumably public ones.  North Carolina law does not permit incentives without a clear demonstration that the recipient's project will contribute to the "Public Good".  Texas may have a comparable rule, Texas Government Code, Title 10, Chapter 2267, Secs .053, ©1.  Summarized, this Texas Rule appears to require that before a private company can receive public incentives, it has to show that that will be a public good generated by the project and not simply the enrichment of itself with the help of public incentives.  Public Good can be rehab a brownfield, renovating a public building, flood control, etc.  It cannot be or should it be tenants for Sundance Square or Hillwood.

 

Take Sundance Square and Panther Island to demonstrate their eligibility as a recipient of publicly derived incentives -

 

Sundance Square is a privately held and controlled entitiy.  It could not be a viable candidate for Amazon unless it demonstrated that it provided Public Good aside from the good that it would be doing for itself. Sundance Square could not invoke eminent domain. Its only recourse is for it solely to provide the incentives which would be limited in nature and scope.

 

Panther Island (TRWD/TRVA/USCorp of Engineers, City of Fort Worth) would not need to demonstrate a Public Good in that it is an publicly held and governed entity.  The governing boards and councils should already have authorization to provide incentives for development of public lands; and they collectively have power of eminent domain, taxation, issuance of debt, etc.

 

On a broader regional scale, I think that the bids from privately held developers (Perot, Hillwood,Crow, etc.) will find it impossible to demonstrate that the project  provides for the Public Good and not so much that their project would provide for their own exclusive benefit.

 

Speculation of a Dallas Uptown, Oak Cliff Oak Farm Dairy, Dallas Valley View, Dallas HSR or Sundance Square, T&P Warehouse, a super tall skyscraper developed by Perot misses the legal restrictions that they would have to overcome to be a successful bidder for Amazon.

 

In the region, I can only identify four sites that probably meet the qualifications and do not have any restrictions on their offering public incentives to Amazon: Irving/Texas Stadium Site; Dallas/Fair Park, DFW Airport; and Fort Worth/Panther Island.