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#1 johnfwd

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 07:27 AM

Bill Hanna tackles the thorny problem of urban sprawl in this Star-Telegram article about people’s feeling of alienation from Fort Worth because they live so far north (in the Alliance area). I have mixed feelings about this: I sympathize with these people for having been lured to this area under false pretenses (I guess). But, as the old saying goes, “you look before you leap.” They are fortunate to have jobs, otherwise why would they be living up there? And I am a hometown Fort Worthian who wants to see my city grow. Eventually, the undeveloped gaps between old FW and far FW will be filled with population growth and concomitant amenities until these people really know they’re living in our far city. At least I hope.

http://www.star-tele...-many-feel.html

#2 Ron Payne

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 08:18 AM

We have a house out there (Haslet mailing address, but actually in unincorporated Tarrant County) and Fort Worth is literally 5' off the back of our house (Willow Springs Golf Course falls under the greedy jurisdiction of FW). We bought out there in 2005 to stay away from the crowded urban areas (we were specifcally advised to stay away from the 'Golden Triangle' unless we enjoy gridlock), but after 6 years of living in the middle of nowhere (closest groceries are 8 miles away at Saginaw Walmart), we rented the house out and moved downtown. We love it here (urban crowding and all, since we walk everywhere downtown anyways), but I can certainly understand the alienation of the folks up north - terrible roads, no shopping, sparse emergency coverage, etc.

What amazes me is that our house sits 18 miles north of DTFW, so the city stretches at least that far north, and I assume a similar distance to the south. Other than seeing the dollar signs of the large houses/large taxes in the Alliance area, why in the world does a city need to consume that much real estate, especially when they are unprepared for the 'upkeep' of it? Kind of a microcosm of our nation - always reaching way too far to "help" distant others in the interest of money rather than taking care of business at home...
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#3 Doohickie

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 09:53 AM

We bought out there in 2005 to stay away from the crowded urban areas


I always find it ironic when people move out to new developments out in the boonies, then begrudge further development in the boonies which turns it into urban sprawl. Not sure that you bought a new development house, but I know people that moved down to a new home in Crowley, complained about the people who moved down there after they did, complained how crowded the roads got, then complained about the new bypass that was built to take the load off the country roads, then complained about how the new Hwy 1187 brought even more development.... essentially the downside of urban sprawl in a nutshell.

I live in southwest Fort Worth, a sprawl neighborhood, but it was already obviously sprawled when we moved in. We knew what we were getting into, and did so with a purpose (correctly identified that the Crowley ISD would provide good services for our special needs son). Now that he is in college, we have no reason to remain here and are fixing up the house so we can move closer to downtown. So yeah, I got caught up in the urban sprawl, too. I guess we all have our reasons.

At present, though, the sprawl isn't that bad compared to other cities where I've lived. You can still reasonably commute around here, and even where there is stop & go traffic, there aren't too many spots that are just hell.... at least west of I-35W and south of I-30. Not as experienced with the far north.
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#4 Brian Luenser

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 10:07 AM

^Agree Doohickie.

Also, I kind of laugh at people that buy a house in a city, buy 17 miles from the center of the city, and then complain that they "Don't feel a part of the City." Der.
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#5 John T Roberts

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 10:29 AM

What also concerns me is what the city is planning to do with the land that lies outside the city limits, but in the ETJ. According to the city, that area is roughly the same size as the city limits is now, meaning that the city could double in land area. Our ETJ goes a long way out northwest of Alliance Airport, north of Lake Weatherford, all the way out to Cresson to the southwest, a good part of northern Johnson County west of Burleson, and the town of Lillian. If the city ever annexed and developed all of that land, Benbrook would be an inner city suburb.

#6 Joshw

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 11:27 AM

I live in the area he's talking about. I've lived as far north as 170 and Alta Vista, and as far south as in between Western Center and 820 off of Beach. I can't wait to move to the Near Southside area, but most people I know that live in the area love it. They hate the roads, they hate that it takes forever to get ANYWHERE, but they love it here nevertheless. The school district is definitely a huge driving force.

17 years ago my parents moved to South Arlington (Kennedale) where it was actually just considered Tarrant County. It got absorbed in to Arlington city limits, Kennedale school system and now it's gone crazy down there with all of the houses, Wal-Mart, Chilis, NTB etc. When they moved there there was a Food Lion (now bulldozed), 1 apartment complex and a gas station. If you want to move out to get away from sprawl, you need to head in any direction 100 miles. And even then, its coming for you.

#7 mmiller2002

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 12:46 PM

Ok, I'm not the only one who had many of the same thoughts in the posts above.

#8 Ron Payne

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 02:46 PM

We bought out there in 2005 to stay away from the crowded urban areas


Not sure that you bought a new development house


In our case, it was an existing home, but within a couple years, we heard about the plans for Sendera Ranch - I believe the number I heard was 10,000 homes - being built at the end of our formerly quiet dead end street - now transformed into a narrow 2-lane freeway (the northermost portion of Willow Springs Rd). Our intent was to stay out of the city - we had no desire to be a part of it - but it came to us anyways. HOWEVER, 6 years down the road, we are living downtown and loving it, so I guess things change - kids grow up and move away, the wife gets tired of driving so far to shop, etc. The only real issue I have with the growth out there now is that we can't sell the house - most of the comments are related to the road being too busy. So there's the irony - the area is growing but we can't sell the house because the roads are too busy due to the area growing. Well, that and the 10,000 new homes we are competing against...
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#9 Doohickie

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 04:17 PM

I hope we will be able to sell. We have pretty good equity in the home and it is in a first-time buyer kind of neighborhood where homes sell in the low 100s.
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#10 Now in Denton

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 10:54 AM

What also concerns me is what the city is planning to do with the land that lies outside the city limits, but in the ETJ. According to the city, that area is roughly the same size as the city limits is now, meaning that the city could double in land area. Our ETJ goes a long way out northwest of Alliance Airport, north of Lake Weatherford, all the way out to Cresson to the southwest, a good part of northern Johnson County west of Burleson, and the town of Lillian. If the city ever annexed and developed all of that land, Benbrook would be an inner city suburb.


Right on Mr. Roberts ! In fact did you know Fort Worth is already in Wise County ? Go look at your Mapsco.Growing up in inner city Fort Worth. We all need to make New Fort Worth feel warm and welcome and a part of the greater community. Because they are.

#11 Ron Payne

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 01:55 PM

The long reach of Fort Worth, outlined in pink (salmon?) - from Google maps:

Posted Image
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#12 John T Roberts

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 01:56 PM

Yes, I'm aware that Fort Worth annexed into Wise County a few years ago. For the record, Fort Worth has its city limits inside Tarrant, Parker, Wise, and Denton Counties. The southern city limits, east of Spinks Airport is on the Johnson County line. This is the part of our city limits that extends the ETJ down to include the town of Lillian.

#13 Joshw

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 04:01 PM

Not that I like Dallas more, but Dallas is so much more square than Fort Worth. We've got fingers everywhere, lol

#14 Ron Payne

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 08:02 AM

It does kind of look like a thumb going off towards Euless - are we destined to become the Michigan of Texas?? People will hold up their right hand to use as a map of FW! :roflol:
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#15 Joshw

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 10:14 AM

It does kind of look like a thumb going off towards Euless - are we destined to become the Michigan of Texas?? People will hold up their right hand to use as a map of FW! :roflol:


Hahaha! Although as a Ohio State Buckeye fan, I will forever refuse that notion! :roflol:

#16 Now in Denton

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 10:26 AM

Not that I like Dallas more, but Dallas is so much more square than Fort Worth. We've got fingers everywhere, lol


To me Dallas is more like a donut. Highland Park and University Park making the Hole for Dallas. Fort Worth is more like Swiss Cheese.Man I hate those speed trap towns.

#17 johnfwd

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 10:41 AM

A number of articles have been written about the population growth in far north Fort Worth, particular in the Alliance area. This is the latest in the Star-Telegram, but the future projections and analysis are noteworthy.


http://www.star-tele...adlines-default

#18 johnfwd

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 07:55 AM

Sorry to interrupt the kudos re the new Motorola plant at Alliance, but a thought here that the multiplier effect from the 2,000 jobs on further economic development and population in far north Fort Worth will be quite significant. Especially so when coupled with the new GE locomotive plant in the same area.

#19 johnfwd

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 10:52 AM

Seems the Perots are so happy with the billions they're making from AllianceTexas that they're contemplating the development of a "AllianceCalifornia".  I haven't read the Forbes article applauding the Perots for their Texas achievement, but it's mentioned in the Star-Telegram column by Shlachter and company below.  Hey, who in our city is complaining?  What's good for Perot is good for north Fort Worth!

 

http://www.star-tele...as-created.html



#20 BedfordLawyer

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 04:19 PM

I live in Keller off Golden Triangle. I didn't choose it. My wife had this house before we got married. Made sense to stay put because she works about fifteen minutes from here and at the time I was going to the law school in downtown Fort Worth. We are pretty much the edge of civilization. I hate it.

 

There are a lot of jobs in the Alliance/Westlake/Solana area although plenty of people who live in the far north FTW area do not work up here. People moved here because property values were respectively low, the houses being built were mostly very nice and the school districts are highly rated. Plus, people love their suburbs here. For now there is very little outside of schools and residential neighborhoods but in 5-10 years it will be just as developed as the midcities. The huge misfire on development out here is on TXDOT for seeing an airport and a massive development plan for this area and not properly expanding the freeways during the late 90s construction projects to accommodate the obvious future traffic. Now they are tearing apart and reconstructing the same freeways less than fifteen years after the work was completed. Wasteful.


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#21 Not Sure

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 05:52 AM

...to accommodate the obvious future traffic.

 

The city of Fort Worth is littered with roads built to accommodate obvious future traffic. Many of them still lead to nowhere and the weeds that once sprouted through the contraction joints are now trees.



#22 Fort Worthology

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 01:54 PM

The endless cycle of widening roads out on the north end of town will only be broken when the city starts requiring all those developments to be built in an interconnected and sustainable manner with their own walkable/bikeable neighborhood centers of commerce linked at a fundamental level with the housing.  Since the city's never going to do that (because City Hall wants to have its cake and eat it, too), the constant widening-traffic-widening-traffic will continue, sucking money away and worsening our health.



#23 BedfordLawyer

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 04:07 PM

 

...to accommodate the obvious future traffic.

 

The city of Fort Worth is littered with roads built to accommodate obvious future traffic. Many of them still lead to nowhere and the weeds that once sprouted through the contraction joints are now trees.

 

 

Those roads were probably not built to accommodate a multi-decade plan to develop part of town with a commercial airport and enormous business campuses. That's what's going on up on 170 and has been for fifteen years. There's still a LOT Perot is building up here.

 

I'm not talking about building or widening some avenues. The highway system needed greater expansion (and they should have put a mass transit system in place a long time ago). I've never heard an urban planner say they wish there were fewer highway lanes. Maybe you have.


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#24 johnfwd

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Posted 29 April 2015 - 08:51 AM

The announcement by Farmer Bros. coffee (reported in Robert Francis' FWBP article below) is fairly significant for far north Fort Worth, even though the production facility will be located in Northlake. 

 

http://www.fwbusines...c09ff770ee.html



#25 johnfwd

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Posted 19 September 2016 - 06:09 AM

Long-delayed relocation, and almost like the same article by Robert Francis, but more than one year later.  What's also worth noting is the typical claim of possession by a metropolitan area, in this case Fort Worth.  But it's really Northlake, which shares Alliance with Fort Worth other municipal jurisdictions.

 

http://www.fortworth...4abf3e2b55.html



#26 cjyoung

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Posted 27 September 2016 - 03:47 PM

But it's really Northlake, which shares Alliance with Fort Worth other municipal jurisdictions.

 

http://www.fortworth...4abf3e2b55.html

Kinda like someone who leaves off of Golden Triangle claiming to live in Keller when all of 76244 is in Fort Worth



#27 johnfwd

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Posted 05 October 2016 - 07:38 AM

More new developments in far north Fort Worth...a new outlet center.

 

http://www.fortworth...3bae4385d6.html



#28 johnfwd

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Posted 04 August 2017 - 09:32 AM

I saw this progress report on the Alliance developments on NBC Channel 5 yesterday.  As a Fort Worth native and promoter, what concerns me is the apparent effort by the Alliance promoters to eventually make this an incorporated municipality.  In other words, a divorce mostly from Fort Worth but also from Haslet and other communities in the vicinity of Alliance Airport and Town Center.  I guess this would be analogous to Los Colinas claiming community rights apart from Irving. 

 

Is Alliance Town Center already served by its own municipal utilities and police and fire services, or are they acquired from Fort Worth?

 

http://www.nbcdfw.co...-438415083.html



#29 JBB

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Posted 04 August 2017 - 10:10 AM

Alliance Town Center is a strip center retail development in the city of Fort Worth just like similar developments at I-20 near Hulen and Bryant Irving or I-30 and Eastchase Parkway or the Target anchored strip center behind Montgomery Plaza. I'm not sure where anyone would get the idea that it is anything different from that. It's highly unlikely that any of those areas that have been annexed by Fort Worth will break off from the city and, if they did, have at it. Like most suburban sprawl, it's highly unlikely that the taxes collected from that area cover the provided city services and infrastructure and the residents and businesses probably don't feel like they get the value of city services from the taxes they pay.

#30 renamerusk

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Posted 04 August 2017 - 11:01 AM

.....As a Fort Worth native and promoter, what concerns me is the apparent effort by the Alliance promoters to eventually make this an incorporated municipality.  In other words, a divorce mostly from Fort Worth but also from Haslet and other communities in the vicinity of Alliance Airport and Town Center....

 

Your question prompted me to do a quick google on the prospect of something like a de-annexation to go through. What I quickly learned is that de-annexation is rare and difficult; it is much easier for annexation.  If Alliance sought de-annexation, the following steps would have to take place:

 

1. The governing city council (Fort Worth, Haslet) would have to approve a resolution for de-annexation

2. A petition drive would have to started and certified to seek de-annexation

3. A ballot would have to be approved and city-wide vote taken by Fort Worth, Haslet requiring at least 60% or 2/3rd approval.

4. Then there would be a "brexit" like negotiation to appraise and settle the expended market value investments paid by Fort Worth/ Haslet and the projected market value that would be lost from their investments.  Alliance would be seizing property from Fort Worth; not something that would be looked upon favorably by a majority of residents outside of Alliance.

 

Also, Alliance would be required likely to show that Fort Worth and Haslet have neglected to provide basic services and infrastructure to Alliance. And then there is the follow up process of gaining incorporation.

 

In theory it could happen but in practical terms it would be a very costly and burdensome process for the Alliance group to de-annex itself from Fort Worth. 



#31 Big Frog II

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Posted 04 August 2017 - 02:11 PM

That is not happening.  Fort Worth spent a ton of money to run water, sewer lines etc.when all of that was a dream.  All of that is just talk and nonsense.



#32 johnfwd

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Posted 08 August 2017 - 09:42 AM

That is not happening.  Fort Worth spent a ton of money to run water, sewer lines etc.when all of that was a dream.  All of that is just talk and nonsense.

I heartily agree.  But I suspect the developers and promoters of Alliance would very much like to divorce this "community" from Fort Worth, if not through getting Fort Worth to de-annex followed by Alliances' municipal incorporation, then through their psychological manipulation (a strong way to put it for lack of a more tactful choice of words) of the area populace and beyond.  Public perception is everything.  I thought about placing my posts in this point of discussion in the "Fort Worth Going, Going, Gone?" thread, because that's exactly what Alliance wants to do.



#33 JBB

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Posted 08 August 2017 - 10:05 AM

Based on what? They're a developer promoting their brand. I've seen nothing indicating that they want to distance or de-annex from Fort Worth.

#34 renamerusk

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Posted 08 August 2017 - 12:33 PM

Based on what? They're a developer promoting their brand. I've seen nothing indicating that they want to distance or de-annex from Fort Worth.

 

Frankly, the perception of Alliance disassociating itself from Fort Worth became ingrained in my psyche by the an early marketing campaign touting the area as being "Alliance, Texas".  So I get what jfwd is getting.



#35 JBB

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Posted 08 August 2017 - 12:45 PM

I forgot about that and I suppose I could see it. Alliance is a product of Hillwood. They are a real estate developer and they're not interested in going into government. Where's the profit in that?

#36 Now in Denton

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Posted 08 August 2017 - 05:15 PM

As someone who works in Alliance for almost 20 years. I remember city limit signs saying Fort Worth population XYZ. Now it just says Fort Worth. Like they got tired of updating the population numbers. It still amazes me seeing Fort Worth this far north. And driving down I-35W and downtown is just a tiny speck on the horizon and takes about 20 minutes on a good day to get to downtown. Hence my name "Now in Denton" but I still live inside Fort Worth city limits. And as someone who grew up in downtown Fort Worth. I have to say I have not seen heard or felt any deannexation movement at all ? We use the same trash carts, with the Fort Worth Longhorn logo. That my Dads has back in Rock Island or as it is now known as Samuels Ave. or is it The Bluffs ?  :smwink: 

 

Remember Alliance Airport IS city of Fort Worth owned. Alliance is a joint venture of the City of Fort Worth ,FAA and Perot Jr. Hillwood. 



#37 johnfwd

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 04:10 PM

Alliance wants to be a planned community just like Los Colinas.  Planned communities within an incorporated municipality were the vogue in the 1970s and are still.  Los Colinas, on its website, touts that "It’s more than a place. We’re a thriving community!"  I don't begrudge that kind of promotion and neither evidently do the Irving economic development people who seem proud of having a community consisting of a high-rise downtown which Irving can't match.  Fort Worth is a different story, I believe.  Irving is viewed as a Dallas suburb.  Of course, not so Fort Worth which has a large geographic landmass in which to grow.  But, I hope it's far north growth remains identified as being of Fort Worth and not an Alliance, Texas.



#38 renamerusk

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 05:24 PM

I know from personal experience that Irving does not continence the idea of Las Colinas being a semi independent agent.  Evidence that the Irving Convention Center is now firmly planted in Las Colinas (North Irving).






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