21 replies to this topic

[normanfd]

An article in the San Antonio Express-News mentions the Trinity Railway Express in planning being made for commuter rail service between San Antonio and Austin that could be running possibly as soon as 2009.

SA E-N article

[mosteijn]

You have to register to see the article...I guess Belo owns their paper, since the website looks awful similar to WFAA's site.

Do you mean that there's a plan for commuter rail TRE style between Austin and SA? I think it's a great idea, I remember taking Amtrack from SA to FW and passing through Austin. If they follow that general alignment, they can add stops to San Marcos and New Braunfels and a few other fast growing suburbs along the way.

[JBB]

Here's the article. By the way, if you're registered for WFAA or DMN, you can use your login for any Belo site. I just used my DMN login for that one.

S.A.-Austin rail pushed
Web Posted: 05/01/2004 12:00 AM CDT

Patrick Driscoll
San Antonio Express-News

If Fort Worth can put up half the money to build and operate a commuter rail line to Dallas, then San Antonio can pitch in to develop similar service to Austin, local business leaders said Friday.

"And we can probably do it better," said Michael Novak, chairman of the Greater San Antonio Chamber of Commerce.

Novak helped lead a delegation of more than a dozen people, including a few from Austin, to check out the state's only commuter rail service — the Trinity Railway Express linking the downtowns of Fort Worth and Dallas.

"If there was any lesson that we learned today, this is a part of the solution that we have to use," said Tullos Wells, chairman of the Austin-San Antonio Commuter Rail District.

Commuter rail is needed because of growing traffic congestion on Interstate 35 and the increasing restrictions that congestion puts on economic activity, Wells said.

"It's not a question of if this is going to happen, it's a question of when," he said.

The rail district, formed last year, is busy updating a 1999 study on the feasibility of commuter rail between San Antonio and Austin.

Officials hope to get numbers this year, develop a plan, fund it, and — perhaps with fingers crossed — start up service by 2009.

The last study said it would cost $475 million in 1998 dollars to start a 110-mile rail line, an amount that could add two lanes to I-35. Trains could run every 30 to 90 minutes, and rides from San Antonio to Austin might last an hour and 45 minutes and cost $9.

Officials with the transit agencies in Fort Worth and Dallas told the San Antonio group they started their 35-mile system for about $290 million, with the first section opening in 1996 and the rest by 2001.

The two agencies split the $16 million a year it takes to operate the system.

That doesn't seem much of a problem for Dallas Area Rapid Transit, which collects $350 million a year from a 1-cent per dollar sales tax, said those in the San Antonio contingent. What's impressive is how the Fort Worth Transportation Authority is managing costs.

Fort Worth collects half a cent, and because the city is smaller than San Antonio, it's reaping just $32 million a year, half of what VIA Metropolitan Transit gets for its 1/2-cent tax.

Fort Worth is considering about 30 more miles of commuter rail over the next 10 to 15 years, said Dick Ruddell, director of the transit agency there.

Funding for the San Antonio-to-Austin line remains a huge question.

Officials will try to get money from every federal, state and local source possible. That could include the transit agencies, metropolitan planning organizations and regional mobility authorities in both cities.

Fort Worth and Dallas found a way to do it, Wells said, adding: "We need to learn from that."

The Railway Express carries about 8,000 passengers each workday to and from nine transit stations. A trip along the whole length takes about an hour, and a one-way ticket costs $2.25. Trains run from every 20 minutes during rush hour to every 90 minutes late at night.

And the rides are smooth and easy, customers say.

Scott Calkin rode the rail system for the first time Friday to get to jury duty in Fort Worth.

"It's very clean and pleasant," he said. "It's just a hassle to drive downtown and find parking, and it's a bit of a novelty so I wanted to try it."

He said he'll ride again when the occasion arises.

[Thurman52]

No, it uses TRE as an example. Their proposal is communter rail from SA to Austin to reduce traffic from 35

[Wildcard]

Las Vegas has a new public transport system called MAX that utilizes buses designed to operate like light rail. What do y'all think, could this sort of thing be successful in Fort Worth?

Here's the link: http://www.chron.com...politan/3231107

[Biggins]

Las Vegas has a new public transport system called MAX that utilizes buses designed to operate like light rail.  What do y'all think, could this sort of thing be successful in Fort Worth?

Here's the link:  http://www.chron.com...politan/3231107

"BRT" (Bus Rapid Transit) has been only marginally successful as compared to LRT. Altogether, analysis has shown that, for new starts installed in corridors serving the core areas of US cities, "BRT" busways have attracted only one-third of the rider-trips estimated for them by FTA-approved modelling. LRT has attracted 122 percent. The palpable effect of this is that, on most new LRT systems, parking lots are jammed, and riders are crowding on trains; in contrast, typical new "BRT" systems may experience modest increases in ridership, but certainly not the avalanche of passengers seen on LRT.
Here are a couple of examples from LightRailNow.org:

• 1999-2000 – Pittsburgh's West Busway, with a capital cost of approximately $55 million per mile, was originally projected to attract 50,000 weekday rider-trips. However, initial ridership of only 5,400 has grown modestly to 9,000 (18% of projections),as repairs to a parallel bridge in the corridor have delayed motor vehicle traffic and given a temporary ostensible advantage to the busway. It is debatable whether this level of ridership will be maintained after bridge repairs are completed, and traffic delays are thus eliminated. Taken as a whole, Pittsburgh's three busways were forecast to attract 165,000 weekday rider-trips. In reality, only 55,000 daily rider-trips have actually materialized some 25 years from the opening of the first busway there.
[Source: Port Authority Transit data; analysis by EL Tennyson, PE]

•...exclusive busways are in no way less costly than light rail.... Boston, Los Angeles, Ottawa and Pittsburgh have about 50 [total] miles of exclusive busway. At today's updated construction cost, they average over $50 million per mile plus a million a mile or two for buses and garages. The buses only last 15 years....

Light rail for [total] 46 miles in Denver, to Portland Airport, in Salt Lake City to Sandy, and east of Saint Louis, cost only $23 million per mile including both cars and shops ([except] no shop at Portland Airport) The cars last for 35 or 40 years.
[E. L. Tennyson, "$3.3 billion Freeway proposed for Honolulu", personal discussion paper (edited), 12 Sep. 2003]

[safly]

Well, anything is expensive to build in Honolulu these days. Just drove on I-35 today from SA to Austin to SA during 1pm til 6pm traffic. Was not bad, I do remember worse. That I-35 to 71 is really shapin up. However, I am all for this idear. Totally! This will surely make the likes of Selma, Gruene, BUDA, NB, and SAN MARCOS just blossom!

[Biggins]

Well, anything is expensive to build in Honolulu these days. Just drove on I-35 today from SA to Austin to SA during 1pm til 6pm traffic. Was not bad, I do remember worse. That I-35 to 71 is really shapin up.  However, I am all for this idear. Totally! This will surely make the likes of Selma, Gruene, BUDA, NB, and SAN MARCOS just blossom!

Yes, Austin-SA commuter rail is the way to go, and it's immeasurably better than adding lanes to I-35. We already know what we get when we widen roads.

[safly]

I hope they would include a commuter-like piggyback rail for peoples cars too. Goes from SA to Austin 4 or 5 times a day, seperate from the passenger rail. Would be an excellent idea and make a mint too. I'd pay $55+ a month (SA to Austin) for unlimited weekday service, plus an extra $55 to DFW unlimited too.
Just an idea though.
Keep Texas Rails Alive!

[mrowl]

this would be an even better idea if they used a high speed rail. People would pay the extra $10 or $15 dollar to get there in half the time.

[DrkLts]

and after 2009 when the rail between SA and Austin opens, can it be linked to the TRE??? i hate car trips to see family in south TX, especially if ya got to squeeze in a small car with several peeps

[ladymcbeth]

I hope they would include a commuter-like piggyback rail for peoples cars too. Goes from SA to Austin 4 or 5 times a day, seperate from the passenger rail. Would be an excellent idea and make a mint too. I'd pay $55+ a month (SA to Austin) for unlimited weekday service, plus an extra $55 to DFW unlimited too.
Just an idea though.
Keep Texas Rails Alive!

It will probably cost more than $55 a month. I pay $70 a month for a monthly pass to Dallas now.

[safly]

I hope they would include a commuter-like piggyback rail for peoples cars too. Goes from SA to Austin 4 or 5 times a day, seperate from the passenger rail. Would be an excellent idea and make a mint too. I'd pay $55+ a month (SA to Austin) for unlimited weekday service, plus an extra $55 to DFW unlimited too.
Just an idea though.
Keep Texas Rails Alive!

It will probably cost more than $55 a month. I pay $70 a month for a monthly pass to Dallas now.

You may pay that, but for $55 a month just for weekday pass would sound ideal. more passenger traffic than TRE I would suppose. I did read about this in the SA Express last month or so. Was interesting to see how they used TRE as an example. A plan to create a toll road through highway 281 is also proposed. Austonians are shootin it down though.

[TexasPacific52]

1. There already is rail transport from DFW to San Antonio. Amtrak makes daily trips.

2. The automobile-rail transport idea is in use in Florida on the Amtrak Auto-train.

[WTx]

There already is rail transport from DFW to San Antonio. Amtrak makes daily trips.

Yes, its an 8hr. trip. Actually it is not a bad trip if you are not in a hurry. Interesting though, the trip is 4hrs to Austin and another 4hrs between Austin and Sa.

[safly]

There already is rail transport from DFW to San Antonio. Amtrak makes daily trips.

Yes, its an 8hr. trip. Actually it is not a bad trip if you are not in a hurry. Interesting though, the trip is 4hrs to Austin and another 4hrs between Austin and Sa.

Not bad for $25 one way. Nice seats too. It is weird that the slowest part isf rom Austin to SA. and once you arrive in SA city limits they trek it all the way around DTSA and back to the station, which takes longer.

I know of the auto rail in FL, I think it would best be used in TX, and would renew life to Amtrak. Definately from their revenue woes, all while creating new users. What do you think? Auto rail from SA to Austin or DFW. Even DTFW to DTDallas, 6 times daily. Another idea is to promote auto rail into Mexico. How bout them apples?

[Biggins]

There already is rail transport from DFW to San Antonio. Amtrak makes daily trips.

Yes, its an 8hr. trip. Actually it is not a bad trip if you are not in a hurry. Interesting though, the trip is 4hrs to Austin and another 4hrs between Austin and Sa.

Not bad for $25 one way. Nice seats too. It is weird that the slowest part isf rom Austin to SA. and once you arrive in SA city limits they trek it all the way around DTSA and back to the station, which takes longer.

I know of the auto rail in FL, I think it would best be used in TX, and would renew life to Amtrak. Definately from their revenue woes, all while creating new users. What do you think? Auto rail from SA to Austin or DFW. Even DTFW to DTDallas, 6 times daily. Another idea is to promote auto rail into Mexico. How bout them apples?

In an era in which the Bush administration refuses to fund current levels of service for Amtrak, I don't see it happening.
We need a project of interstate system proportions to implement high-speed dedicated rail for Amtrak in high-density regional corridors across the country. As long as Amtrak has to use freight rail lines, it will prove inconvenient for many as a transportation option. I believe that popular opinion is in large favor of transit, but our opinions are muffled by the sounds of oil/highway lobby dollars marching into D.C.

[RD Milhollin]

Good discussion, (translation: I agree with most of what is being said)

I know of the auto rail in FL, I think it would best be used in TX, and would renew life to Amtrak. Definately from their revenue woes, all while creating new users. What do you think? Auto rail from SA to Austin or DFW. Even DTFW to DTDallas, 6 times daily. Another idea is to promote auto rail into Mexico. How bout them apples?

I am familiar with the car-train that takes snowbirds and their Oldsmobiles from Quebec and the Northeast US down to South Florida. It is very popular and seems to be used by people on an annual basis. The frequency of these trains increases in the autumn and spring to accomodate demand; I would be curious to know the profitability of this service. I wonder if the same system could be used to run from Chicago and the Midwest down to the Rio Grande Valley? I don't see any hope of profitability (even as defined by US passenger rail standards) moving comuters and their cars between Ft. Worth/Dallas and San Antonio. I understand that the terribly decrepit Mexican rail system has been privatized and much of the track has been sold off, much of it to US rail companies. Plans were at one time to extend the Chicago/San Antonio line on to Monterrey, NL. The car-train concept into Mexico would not work since you don't need an auto to get around in Mexico due to the ubiquitious presence of mass transit (busses mainly, several classes of service).

In an era in which the Bush administration refuses to fund current levels of service for Amtrak, I don't see it happening.
We need a project of interstate system proportions to implement high-speed dedicated rail for Amtrak in high-density regional corridors across the country. As long as Amtrak has to use freight rail lines, it will prove inconvenient for many as a transportation option. I believe that popular opinion is in large favor of transit, but our opinions are muffled by the sounds of oil/highway lobby dollars marching into D.C.

YES, the automobile/petroleum industrail complex has ridden on the back of the taxpayers long enough. We as a nation have lost the edge in train technology (actually this happened some time ago). Where were the DART trains manufactured? Where was the Ft. Worth "T" shopping for streetcars a few years ago? However, I see several trends on the horizon that might help things if they could be merged into a coherent program. Freight lines may be rerouted around urban areas, thus eliminating traffic jams like the one in Downtown Fort Worth and also helping to improve the quality of life for those living close to rail lines. This would free up lines in urban areas for dedicated passenger lines. Gasoline prices are probably going to stay moderately high, hopefully spurring popular opinion in the direction of more mass transit, especially as the trend toward tollways at the expense of freeways grows, and the cost of building new "expressways" skyrockets. The plan in Texas to build new infrastructure corridors across the state and around urban areas would provide straight-line right-of-way needed by high-speed trains. As far as an Interstate-equivalent program, agreed. However, I would suggest that both passenger and freight be included, they can share the same right of way if different tracks. And to tie in with another recent and popular thread, Eminent Domain should be available to realize this project to the same extent that the highway builders have used it for the past 50+ years.

[safly]

Pup,

I will have to resp. disagree with you on the Mexico issue. Driving throughout Mexico in your own vehicle is a plus, though I do hear of stories with missing suburbans and such, but hopefully that problem will be drastically improved upon within the internals of Mexico. The border checking has always been a drag, and you do use a lot of fuel to drive down their in a day, to places like Monterrey and Mexico City, all depending on your origin. Amtrak can cut that fuel cost in half for most big SUV's. Just imagine all the hunters getting to have their camo trucks railed down to N. Mexico, or fine Mexican furniture and decor afficianados having their mid line freight trucks hauled too. Family trips or camping excursions in the burban will be able to pack it heavy and ease on down to the inner northern corridor of Mexico, or half way through to C. America. Or just to see relatives. Sort of a relax and leave the driving to us mentality. This would def. open up prosperous avenues for Amtrak and the general Texas public.

If there was a line for SA to DFW with auto rail on a more frequent basis, it would do well and maybe turn into a profitable scheme in it's first 2 years with a good PR campaign. I had a chance to take the line from the burbs to DTChicago today and just marveled at all the traffic I was breezing by on a multi-stop(6) line going in, and marveled again at all the traffic I was passing up on the Express going back. $6 RT. It just makes perfect sense to DO THIS out here. And soon it will make PERFECT sense to DO THIS in Texas. Especially if more good paying jobs are being placed in our CBD areas much like Chicago.

-SAFLY

[safly]

If it passes, then there is a God. And that God is a Cowboys fan. Yeeeh haaaa!

[NThomas]

Posted on Fri, Sep. 09, 2005

TRE could serve new stadium
By Gordon Dickson
Star-Telegram Staff Writer

ARLINGTON - A train station may be built to get football fans to the new Cowboys stadium.

Officials from Arlington and the Fort Worth Transportation Authority are looking for ways to put a Trinity Railway Express station near the Collins Street railroad bridge.

Yes, that's way north of the stadium site. But passengers arriving at the station could board buses for a three-mile trip down Collins Street. The road would be restriped with bus-only lanes that would allow buses to breeze past congestion, depositing riders into the entertainment district.

If approved, the service could be running by the time the stadium opens in 2009, Regional Transportation Council officials said.

The station would also serve as a daily park-and-ride lot for Arlington-area commuters who would rather ride the train than drive.

But Arlington's cost is an estimated $3.75 million, and federal money would only cover about half the tab. Arlington would have to figure out a way to pony up the rest of the money, even though voters have repeatedly rejected a transit sales tax.

"It would depend upon Arlington's level of commitment," said Michael Morris, transportation director for the North Central Texas Council of Governments.

Has there been any more talk about this being put in place?