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Mixed use development @ St. Louis & Daggett

Near Southside mixed use

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#1 Austin55

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Posted 15 April 2017 - 04:41 PM

From the southside TIF

 

 

Discussion and Consideration of a Resolution to Approve a TIF Development Agreement with Daggett Southside Holdings, LLC for public improvements associated with the development of a newly constructed three-story mixed-use building located at 209 St. Louis Ave., 208 & 214 Galveston Ave., Smith-Jones & Daggett Addition, Block 3, Lot 9, 10, 11, 12 (Paul Paine, TIF Administrator)

 

From the Near Southside Inc 2017 progress report

 

 

Southwest Sports & Spine Center St. Louis Avenue and Daggett Avenue Dr. Steve Simmons is in the final design phase of a mixed-use project featuring space for his medical clinic, a police storefront and upper floor apartments

 

Tma-Cha is the architect. The project is across the street from the Dickson-Jenkins lofts and Markeen apartments, 2 blocks from S. Main, and one block from the T&P parking lot. 



#2 renamerusk

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Posted 15 April 2017 - 06:06 PM

From the southside TIF

 

 

Discussion and Consideration of a Resolution to Approve a TIF Development Agreement with Daggett Southside Holdings, LLC for public improvements associated with the development of a newly constructed three-story mixed-use building located at 209 St. Louis Ave., 208 & 214 Galveston Ave., Smith-Jones & Daggett Addition, Block 3, Lot 9, 10, 11, 12 (Paul Paine, TIF Administrator)

 

From the Near Southside Inc 2017 progress report

 

 

Southwest Sports & Spine Center St. Louis Avenue and Daggett Avenue Dr. Steve Simmons is in the final design phase of a mixed-use project featuring space for his medical clinic, a police storefront and upper floor apartments

 

Tma-Cha is the architect. The project is across the street from the Dickson-Jenkins lofts and Markeen apartments, 2 blocks from S. Main, and one block from the T&P parking lot. 

 

 

Without looking into this closer, I think that this use of TIF seems to be inappropriate.  Sounds to me that the doctor is hoping to get some nice residential digs, for which may possibly for himself, by dangling the prospect of a public safety hangout.  

 

Seems cynical from my perspective.



#3 Austin55

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Posted 15 April 2017 - 06:27 PM

I'd assume the TIF money will be spent on sidewalks, which are in very poor condition at the site currently.

#4 Austin55

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Posted 30 August 2017 - 11:29 AM

News + rendering from Fort Construction

 

51FKfPz.jpg

 

 

We are preparing to begin construction on a new doctor’s office located in the Near Southside neighborhood.

This will be a 19,000 SF mixed-use building. The first two floors will feature a medical office along with physical therapy offices for a pain management practice. The third floor will have leasable apartment space that will provide extra income to the owner.

An interesting aspect of this building is that it will have a small police sub-station, office, and secure restroom for the Fort Worth Police Department. As Dr. Simmons stated, one of the small luxuries that an officer can have is a secure restroom since they cannot lay down their weapons while using a public restroom.

Tom Malone at tma-cha architects, inc. is the mastermind behind the design. He is not only considered one of the most experienced mixed-use architects in Fort Worth, but he also brings a keen eye to healthcare design.

We should start moving dirt by the second week of September and expect to have everything completed by June 2018.



#5 Doohickie

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Posted 30 August 2017 - 11:36 AM

That style is not something I would choose.  (Maybe it will look better in person.)


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#6 Austin55

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Posted 30 August 2017 - 12:00 PM

I get some MCM vibes.



#7 pelligrini

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Posted 30 August 2017 - 12:20 PM

I think I've seen this before, but there were mountains in the background and skis on top of the cars. I might just be this perspective, but I'll be looking forward to more renderings and the construction.


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#8 johnfwd

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Posted 30 August 2017 - 12:28 PM

I think I've seen this before, but there were mountains in the background and skis on top of the cars. I might just be this perspective, but I'll be looking forward to more renderings and the construction.

Does look a little like a ski lodge resort, doesn't it.



#9 Doohickie

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Posted 30 August 2017 - 12:34 PM

I think I've seen this before, but there were mountains in the background and skis on top of the cars. I might just be this perspective, but I'll be looking forward to more renderings and the construction.

 

:D


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#10 rriojas71

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Posted 30 August 2017 - 12:35 PM

Oh god. This is just so blah. I'm sorry, but I'm not a big fan of Fort Construction's design aesthetic. Everything they do looks cheap and value engineeed. Just my opinion.

Aren't they responsible for that suburban bank lodge building on 7th & Summit?

#11 Austin55

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Posted 30 August 2017 - 12:46 PM

Oh god. This is just so blah. I'm sorry, but I'm not a big fan of Fort Construction's design aesthetic. Everything they do looks cheap and value engineeed. Just my opinion.

Aren't they responsible for that suburban bank lodge building on 7th & Summit?

 

TMA CHA is the architect, but yes. 

http://www.tma-cha.com/portfolio/#

They've done some nice stuff.



#12 pelligrini

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Posted 30 August 2017 - 01:08 PM

It's nice seeing a true mixed use project happening. Here the 'live, work' phrase applies. The future apartment dwellers should feel very secure with the police substation.

 

Oh god. This is just so blah. I'm sorry, but I'm not a big fan of Fort Construction's design aesthetic. Everything they do looks cheap and value engineeed. Just my opinion.

Aren't they responsible for that suburban bank lodge building on 7th & Summit?

 

Quite often it is not the architects fault that things look cheap and value engineered, The owner/developer's budget or lack thereof can be a big cause. Builders substitutions can change things too.

 

Not all firms can operate like Howard Roark would.  :smwink:


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#13 Jeriat

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Posted 30 August 2017 - 02:20 PM

 

News + rendering from Fort Construction

 

51FKfPz.jpg

 

 

We are preparing to begin construction on a new doctor’s office located in the Near Southside neighborhood.

This will be a 19,000 SF mixed-use building. The first two floors will feature a medical office along with physical therapy offices for a pain management practice. The third floor will have leasable apartment space that will provide extra income to the owner.

An interesting aspect of this building is that it will have a small police sub-station, office, and secure restroom for the Fort Worth Police Department. As Dr. Simmons stated, one of the small luxuries that an officer can have is a secure restroom since they cannot lay down their weapons while using a public restroom.

Tom Malone at tma-cha architects, inc. is the mastermind behind the design. He is not only considered one of the most experienced mixed-use architects in Fort Worth, but he also brings a keen eye to healthcare design.

We should start moving dirt by the second week of September and expect to have everything completed by June 2018.

 

 

Looks like something that belongs somewhere in Colorado...

Not really a bad design at all, just, strange choice in design. 


7fwPZnE.png

 

8643298391_d47584a085_b.jpg


#14 Austin55

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Posted 12 December 2017 - 11:25 PM

This has been undergoing ground work for a bit but a big mobile crane has been on site recently and it's starting to go vertical.



#15 Austin55

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Posted 14 October 2018 - 03:51 PM

Almost complete. 

 

ejiKL6s.jpg



#16 John T Roberts

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Posted 14 October 2018 - 05:15 PM

The Downtown Walking Tour group took notice last month as we were walking by.



#17 rriojas71

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Posted 14 October 2018 - 05:30 PM

no comment... which actually means I have a lot of comments but I dont really need to share

#18 JBB

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Posted 14 October 2018 - 06:41 PM

It looks like the entry of Bass Pro or Cabelas.

#19 John T Roberts

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Posted 14 October 2018 - 06:51 PM

Yes, it does.  It was a source of discussion on the September Walking Tour when we deviated to cover the Near Southside.



#20 Doohickie

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Posted 14 October 2018 - 09:53 PM

That's fugly.


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#21 rriojas71

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Posted 15 October 2018 - 02:32 AM

The only bright side on this is that it actually looks a lot better than the rendering which usually doesn’t happen too often.... sadly the only way that could not have happened was if the finally product was made out of cardboard.

#22 Doohickie

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Posted 15 October 2018 - 08:18 AM

Not the only bright side.  Really, even though I wouldn't design/build a building like that in that area, I don't necessarily think all buildings in an area need to belong to the same visual aesthetic.  The style of the building across from Benito's is unlike any of the buildings around it, yet it works in the area. 

 

This new building a "sports and spine center."  The similarity to a ski lodge may be very purposeful considering its use.  There are so many medical buildings in the area, this one will stand out from the crowd, and the ski lodge look may be intended to communicate an active sports lifestyle.  We're looking at it from the standpoint of architects and planners in light of the style of neighboring buildings.  Maybe the correct perspective is from the viewpoint of people who will be using the building.


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#23 rriojas71

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Posted 16 October 2018 - 06:33 AM

I agree Doohickie that building variation is a good thing however building designs need to compliment the fabric of the neighborhood and this one does not. If this was built near clear fork in the area near all the other medical buildings then it would be fine, although IMO it’s still a hodgepodge of bad ideas and not a nice looking building. Heck even in your post the day before you called it “fugly” which I am in agreement with. My overall issue is not the design of the building but instead where it was built.

#24 renamerusk

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Posted 16 October 2018 - 06:44 PM

It's nice seeing a true mixed use project happening. Here the 'live, work' phrase applies. The future apartment dwellers should feel very secure with the police substation.

 

 It is inappropriate for Dr. Simmons to offer space for the police departmen; and should be against the policy of the FWPD to take a gift. Dr. Simmons knows this and the FWPD ought to know this too.

 

It is a benefit of "private security" for his private property" paid for by the public and a lessening of security for other private establishments in the area.  If Dr. Simmons desires security, he can purchase security through a private security agency as anyone else should.  Dr. Simmons may also hire off duty policeman if he wants security at his private property as do other establishments such as banks and grocery stores.

 

A similar situation occurred in Dallas at a time when the only 24 hour store was the 7-11.  7-11 offered free food and drink to the policeman who lingered around the 7-11, thus providing the stores with "free public supported security.  The public and other businesses voiced their concerns about the DPD spending more time at the 7-11 and that their businesses were being patrolled as often as they should be.   DPD instigated a policy that policeman should only take a short break at 24 hour stores and should not lingered at these establishments for long periods of time.

 

Suppose more and more establishments, apartments for example,  set aside space for FWPD to office and park squad cars in plain sight; you can see the potential for this to be epidemic. The situation at this property will likelyhave to be revisited' and IMO it should be.

 

https://www.tml.org/... memo FINAL.pdf



#25 youngalum

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Posted 17 October 2018 - 11:38 AM

 

It's nice seeing a true mixed use project happening. Here the 'live, work' phrase applies. The future apartment dwellers should feel very secure with the police substation.

 

 It is inappropriate for Dr. Simmons to offer space for the police departmen; and should be against the policy of the FWPD to take a gift. Dr. Simmons knows this and the FWPD ought to know this too.

 

It is a benefit of "private security" for his private property" paid for by the public and a lessening of security for other private establishments in the area.  If Dr. Simmons desires security, he can purchase security through a private security agency as anyone else should.  Dr. Simmons may also hire off duty policeman if he wants security at his private property as do other establishments such as banks and grocery stores.

 

A similar situation occurred in Dallas at a time when the only 24 hour store was the 7-11.  7-11 offered free food and drink to the policeman who lingered around the 7-11, thus providing the stores with "free public supported security.  The public and other businesses voiced their concerns about the DPD spending more time at the 7-11 and that their businesses were being patrolled as often as they should be.   DPD instigated a policy that policeman should only take a short break at 24 hour stores and should not lingered at these establishments for long periods of time.

 

Suppose more and more establishments, apartments for example,  set aside space for FWPD to office and park squad cars in plain sight; you can see the potential for this to be epidemic. The situation at this property will likelyhave to be revisited' and IMO it should be.

 

https://www.tml.org/... memo FINAL.pdf

 

So do you have a problem that TCU does the same thing off of Berry?  Would it make a difference if it was provided to the FWPD for free?



#26 renamerusk

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Posted 17 October 2018 - 11:51 AM

So do you have a problem that TCU does the same thing off of Berry?  Would it make a difference if it was provided to the FWPD for free?

 

No; I do not have a problem with an institution such as TCU or the Stockyards having a sub station that works with the FWPD. 

 

In the case of TCU, it has its own campus police/security department; paid for by TCU.  The public is virtually free to come and go on to the campus of TCU.  If it coordinates with the FWPD, it is appropriate. 

 

When each of the many apartment complexes begin to set aside space for police sub station, there will be a problem. Imagine every apartment complex with a sub station and deciding to that their isn't a need to provide it own security for its tenants because a police sub station is on the premises.

 

Dr. Simmons is seeking something that can not be provided to others who have medical offices, apartments, banks, churches, bars, etc.  We could next have apartment developers setting aside space for fire rescue to lower their insurance liability.

 

This "so called gift"  is inappropriate and probably against the law.  Yes, anytime a gift is provided by a private individual to a public servant or public organization, it concerns me as to what the quid pro is.



#27 youngalum

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Posted 17 October 2018 - 02:17 PM

Just to be clear, TCU does give FWPD free space for a storefront off Berry in a building TCU owns.

 

I would imagine there is a finite number of cases were FWPD would agree to this arrangement to avoid the conflicts you so describe.  

 

If not every developer is granted this wish list item and FWPD limits its use to one per sector, I see no problem with it.  Part of active community engagement is to have a presence in neighborhoods beyond a patrol car driving by every 2-3 hours.



#28 renamerusk

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Posted 17 October 2018 - 02:40 PM

Just to be clear, TCU does give FWPD free space for a storefront off Berry in a building TCU owns.

 

I would imagine there is a finite number of cases were FWPD would agree to this arrangement to avoid the conflicts you so describe.  

 

If not every developer is granted this wish list item and FWPD limits its use to one per sector, I see no problem with it.  Part of active community engagement is to have a presence in neighborhoods beyond a patrol car driving by every 2-3 hours.

 

 I just don't see how you can not have a problem with some developers getting their wish list fulfilled while others do not.  So one bar owner could get a police station at their door; and the others must pay for security.  How is that fair?

 

 What Dr. Simmons is seeking is public assistance for something that he desires disguised as "Support for the Blue".  It is fake citizenry

 

How do you determine who gets this perk and who does not..please?



#29 youngalum

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Posted 18 October 2018 - 03:31 PM

 

Just to be clear, TCU does give FWPD free space for a storefront off Berry in a building TCU owns.

 

I would imagine there is a finite number of cases were FWPD would agree to this arrangement to avoid the conflicts you so describe.  

 

If not every developer is granted this wish list item and FWPD limits its use to one per sector, I see no problem with it.  Part of active community engagement is to have a presence in neighborhoods beyond a patrol car driving by every 2-3 hours.

 

 I just don't see how you can not have a problem with some developers getting their wish list fulfilled while others do not.  So one bar owner could get a police station at their door; and the others must pay for security.  How is that fair?

 

 What Dr. Simmons is seeking is public assistance for something that he desires disguised as "Support for the Blue".  It is fake citizenry

 

How do you determine who gets this perk and who does not..please?

 

FWPD only has so much $ to spend.  If a developer comes in, has space and there isn't already a storefront in the area, then I have no problem. 



#30 renamerusk

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Posted 18 October 2018 - 04:45 PM

FWPD only has so much $ to spend.  If a developer comes in, has space and there isn't already a storefront in the area, then I have no problem.

 

 I understand that you do not have a problem with the developer doing this, but isn't it true that every developer new and old could theoretically set aside space for a storefront?

 

 However, I do not understand how you would go about deciding from whom and where you accept gifts and I am wondering if you could explain how such a decision can be made in an equitable way...would you use a lottery?...would you weigh the quality of the gift to the quality of the other donors? What will be the tax ramifications?



#31 John T Roberts

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Posted 18 October 2018 - 07:22 PM

I would think the Police Department would evaluate the location based on if they were establishing it out of their own funds.  Where would the public be best served?  Does this location offer the best response times? etc.



#32 renamerusk

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Posted 18 October 2018 - 08:40 PM

I think it is the FWPD use of its own statistics that should determine where and what neighborhoods need the greater police presence. 

 

Where there is the most crime is where there should be greater visibility and neighborhood policing.  High income neighborhoods come with the means to pay for private security and personal surveillance equipment.

 

We know or should be able to guess with a high degree of accuracy where the rates of crime and the violation of code compliance are mainly concentrated in Fort Worth.  These are the places the public should have the immediate ease to interact with the FWPD. for help and for complaints.



#33 Austin55

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Posted 28 February 2020 - 09:56 PM

Dr. Simmons is planning another building right across Daggett Ave from this one. It will also be 3 floors with a rooftop with a retail slot called "Panther City Tavern".







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