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800 Car Parking Garage To Go Up on Landmark Tower Site

Downtown Parking Garages New Construction

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#151 Mr_Brightside526

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Posted 17 March 2016 - 09:10 AM

Fascinating timing.

 

My conspiracy mode suggests that XTO used its insider's card at City Hall for an eventual investor to step in do a major project on this prime site.

 

It never made economic sense, IMO, for an O&G company, even XOM/XTO to forego a highest use of the site for the sake of providing free and convenient parking for its employees. I still cannot believe it for a number of reasons.

 

As for the new owner, Woodbranch Management (WBM), here is a report in the Houston Chronicle which shows what WBM is currently doing at a comparable site in Houston and is suggestive as to what could be done in Fort Worth. The garage now underway at Houston@7th Streets can be changed/reinforced to support a multistory high rise. Lets hope so!

 

http://www.houstonch...p#photo-6595882

 

I just so happen to have snapped a picture of that building on Monday while I was in Houston.

 

Excuse the dingy-ness, I was working with a dirty window.

 

cdb21a76-e346-4e35-b827-bd4a9a285ec7_zps

 

I agree completely though. It does not make sense to build a parking garage in the center of downtown where prime landmark tower real estate exists. I really hope something of this size and capacity comes to the CBD.



#152 johnfwd

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Posted 17 March 2016 - 09:57 AM

I share your wishful thinking; however, the brief account of the downtown Houston project suggests that a high-rise building was planned at the site from the outset.  In our case WBM's purchase price was for a 9-story parking garage.  And a 9-story parking garage is probably what it will end up being.  And, of course, high-rise construction in downtown Houston is undoubtedly far more marketable than in downtown FW. 



#153 renamerusk

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Posted 17 March 2016 - 10:58 AM

Yeah, it is wishful thinking; however an inquiring mind would question why XOM/XTO would need a third party to manage its employees' only garage or why a commercial/residential real estate developer, WBM would want to be merely the leasing agent?

 

The opportunity for multistory residential in Downtown is more feasible than it is being given credit.

 

I believe this bares watching as it has the potential to evolve to something more.



#154 RD Milhollin

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Posted 17 March 2016 - 10:58 AM

XTO seem consistent in emphasizing that the purpose of building on this site is to provide parking for it's employees. I am sure the company made provision in the sale terms that the parking would be provided. I am also pretty sure that significantly changing the construction plans at this late date would be very cost-prohibitive. The images provided seem to show a modular element design; at least this building could be disassembled at a later date when a better and "higher" use presents itself. :closedeyes:



#155 renamerusk

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Posted 17 March 2016 - 11:23 AM

XTO seem consistent in emphasizing that the purpose of building on this site is to provide parking for it's employees. I am sure the company made provision in the sale terms that the parking would be provided. I am also pretty sure that significantly changing the construction plans at this late date would be very cost-prohibitive. The images provided seem to show a modular element design; at least this building could be disassembled at a later date when a better and "higher" use presents itself. :closedeyes:

 

I would think that re-engineering the site to accommodate or even fortifying it to support a high rise is feasible; particularly since ground has just been broken this month.  Engineers weigh in!

 

It may be that XOM/XTO is immovable on its goal of providing 800 free parking spaces solely allocated to its employees.  It may be that WBM is in it only to management the property.  Both scenarios seem implausible, but you would have to wonder about that.



#156 Dylan

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Posted 17 March 2016 - 08:51 PM

No way!!! - I literally took pictures of that building when I was in downtown Houston yesterday!

 

I haven't even uploaded my pictures yet!


-Dylan


#157 dangr.dave

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Posted 18 March 2016 - 10:04 AM

They haven't dug down on the site, so I wouldn't imagine that very much can be supported.  They have a giant auger machine out there putting in columns, so I would imagine it is just going to be the garage.



#158 Austin55

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Posted 19 March 2016 - 06:14 PM

They've got an interesting drilling pattern here,not really sure what this is for. I've looked for signs of Landmark Tower's foundation, I'm not sure if that was all torn out after its implosion or not. 

 

DSC_1112_zpsdyx52wmq.jpg

 

DSC_1118_zpspqoerin7.jpg



#159 renamerusk

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Posted 19 March 2016 - 10:41 PM

XTO seem consistent in emphasizing that the purpose of building on this site is to provide parking for it's employees. I am sure the company made provision in the sale terms that the parking would be provided......

 

 From the onset, it is no secret that I have been mystified by the nature of this project. Perks aside for its employees; now XOM/XTO is negotiating parking provisions on a project that it is building, thus substituting current provisions with new provisions. It is puzzling to say the least. 

 

I sense that a surprise is hopefully in store.



#160 JBB

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Posted 19 March 2016 - 11:08 PM

Why would they say they're building a parking garage when they intend to build something else?



#161 renamerusk

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Posted 19 March 2016 - 11:52 PM

Why!

 

Because what is the reason to self build a garage only to hope and then have a waiting and willing investor that would come along and manage it for them 8-5,m-f. --- that is a very good luck indeed.

 

Because there are ample surface/garage management companies in Downtown who would have gladly managed it for them the during the week just for the privilege of managing it after 5 and on weekends.

 

And Because - As for WBM, I have yet to come upon a garage-only facility that it operates.  WBM, for what I am learning about it, is a commercial and residential developer, not a parking garage manager.

 

WBM becoming a garage manager makes as little sense to me as XTO/XOM feeling the parking pains of its employees and building a private garage with a T-Mobile, Starbucks, 7-11 as leasees. 

 

But if on the other hand, XTO/XOM and WBM preferred to keep plans for a major development quiet for whatever their reasons; then having XTO/XOM break ground and WBM immediately purchase the property even before one leasee has taken a space and generated rental income suggests the possibility, at least in my mind, that something may be in the works.

 

Of course, all of this activity surrounding a garage, a mediocre garage at that, is just what it is -  a garage. 

 

I continue think there is more to come and to hope for a big surprise.



#162 JBB

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Posted 20 March 2016 - 07:54 AM

Good reasons why it should and maybe one reason why it could be something else, but I don't think they are starting construction on something they slid through the DDRB without anyone finding out. Keep looking for the ball glove or toy truck under the tree, but you would be better off accepting the fact that your aunt knitted you a sweater.

#163 Volare

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Posted 20 March 2016 - 08:19 AM

Besides, as we know, the highest best use for property in downtown Fort Worth is for parking.



#164 renamerusk

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Posted 20 March 2016 - 11:22 AM

Good reasons why it should and maybe one reason why it could be something else, but I don't think they are starting construction on something they slid through the DDRB without anyone finding out. Keep looking for the ball glove or toy truck under the tree, but you would be better off accepting the fact that your aunt knitted you a sweater.

 

 Probably very sound advice.



#165 Austin55

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Posted 30 March 2016 - 04:20 AM

This is already going vertical. There's nearly no foundation to it, nothing about it seems like "more than a parking garage", hate to say it.

 

 There's also a tower crane base in place. It's in a weird spot though, right in the middle of the site. 

 

DSC02024_zpsg6fs8aml.jpg

 

DSC02112_zpspfutu6pw.jpg

\



#166 Austin55

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Posted 02 April 2016 - 02:43 PM

The crane has an FAA obstruction height of 267 feet.

 

https://oeaaa.faa.go...286516900&row=3



#167 John T Roberts

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Posted 02 April 2016 - 09:01 PM

You are right about the DDRB.  They reviewed a nine story parking garage and the owners basically have to build what is approved or pay the price by resubmission or possibly demolition of the changed building.  By the photographs taken from above, I'm pretty confident this is going to be nothing more than a nine story garage.  If it were a high rise building, it would require one, two, or more basement levels just to support a tall building.  This construction is basically a slab on grade with drilled piers.



#168 Austin55

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Posted 03 April 2016 - 09:35 PM

DSC02585_zpske0fmd0c.jpg



#169 Mr_Brightside526

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Posted 04 April 2016 - 08:18 AM

How sad :(

 

Time to rename the tread "Landmark Parking."



#170 John T Roberts

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Posted 04 April 2016 - 09:14 AM

I didn't need to rename that thread.  There was already one for the parking garage, so I moved those posts over this thread.



#171 dangr.dave

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Posted 06 April 2016 - 06:09 AM

26269153335_0320f45f12_c.jpgFrom the very beginning by Dave Matthews, on Flickr



#172 renamerusk

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Posted 23 April 2016 - 03:11 PM

Well once "Cowtown Plaza".... Uh hmmm... Gets built then there should be significant parking near this corner.

 

 

Cowtown Plaza will be XTO only.

 

 

 I'm still all in on the "something more" conspiracy when it comes to the XTO garage; believing that there may have already been some negotiation between XTO and Iconlodging, Inc. about sharing the garage.  XTO could earn some additional secured leasing terms for its space.

 

 

 

... then having XTO/XOM break ground and WBM immediately purchase the property even before one leasee has taken a space and generated rental income suggests the possibility, at least in my mind, that something may be in the works....Of course, all of this activity surrounding a garage, a mediocre garage at that, is just what it is -  a garage....I continue think there is more to come and to hope for a big surprise.

 

Halliburton cutting 6,000 jobs and XTO building an 800 car garage for its employees! Again something very wrong with that picture. I apologize for the doomsday message, but how secure can XTO jobs actually be?  So when XTO makes a deal with a parking garage managing firm, the proposed hotel at Houston @ 8th and other projects nearby can perhaps happen without the additional expense of building a parking structure; and yes, this is the surprise that I was hoping for; and hoping for more to come.



#173 JBB

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Posted 23 April 2016 - 03:55 PM

I don't think there's any indication how the hotel is dealing with parking, much less that they're using the XTO garage.

I have a few friends in the oil and gas business and they all say the same thing: it's as bad as they've ever seen it. The only way I can figure is that XTO is well-insulated under the umbrella of Exxon. That may not last forever, but I'm sure they're hoping the low prices killing the industry won't last either.

#174 renamerusk

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Posted 23 April 2016 - 05:19 PM

But if on the other hand, XTO/XOM and WBM preferred to keep plans for a major development quiet for whatever their reasons; then having XTO/XOM break ground and WBM immediately purchase the property even before one leasee has taken a space and generated rental income suggests the possibility, at least in my mind, that something may be in the works.

 

 

I don't think there's any indication how the hotel is dealing with parking, much less that they're using the XTO garage.....

 

 Entire countries (Russia, Venezuela, Saudia Arabia and states like Oklahoma, North Dakota are reeling from the both the oversupply of and low prices for oil.  Exxon does not want you to see it sweating; but you know that it is.

 

As for the 800 car garage, I believe the first indication was the immediate purchase of the garage by Woodbranch Management (WBM). It was so fast a deal, that it had to have been in the works for a while.

 

One suspects that WBM will lease/management the property to other nearby businesses (hotel, restaurants, etc.). 

 

Depending upon how long the energy slide continues and if XTO is compelled to make adjustments, the garage will be a steady cash flow for XTO.  Combined with the other adjacent parking garages, the garage can provide for the parking needs of other projects that may be on the drawing board.

 

I was highly skeptical from the onset that the garage-only project made sense simply standing alone to provide "parking perks" for employees.



#175 Austin55

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Posted 08 July 2016 - 06:40 PM

I noticed on the Loopnet page for this they are offering naming rights for a major tenant. PLEASE SOMEONE so this wont get called Cowtown Place. The PDF also has some additional renderings and plan views of the 1st floor if you want to see, but nothing to exciting.



#176 renamerusk

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Posted 09 July 2016 - 07:56 PM

I noticed on the Loopnet page for this they are offering naming rights for a major tenant. PLEASE SOMEONE so this wont get called Cowtown Place. The PDF also has some additional renderings and plan views of the 1st floor if you want to see, but nothing to exciting.

 

 With such a large canvas facades (4x4), the garage facades should either be dressed-up and or used the facades for large outdoor banners for advertisement. 

 

 I could see a banner for a Kimbell, Modern of Carter exhibition; a Bass Performance show, etc.



#177 Austin55

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Posted 21 July 2016 - 07:42 AM

7/21/16

 

 

Cn4-c03UMAAYRUw.jpg

 

Cn4-bu6VYAIjq-x.jpg



#178 Mr_Brightside526

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Posted 22 July 2016 - 10:57 AM

Gross -_-



#179 John T Roberts

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Posted 22 July 2016 - 02:17 PM

I never pass judgment on a building until it is complete.  If you think about it, unless you are talking to a structural engineer, a building's skeleton is not that attractive.



#180 Jeriat

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Posted 22 July 2016 - 06:52 PM

I never pass judgment on a building until it is complete.  If you think about it, unless you are talking to a structural engineer, a building's skeleton is not that attractive.

 

True...

But personally, it being a garage is an instant turn off for me. 


7fwPZnE.png

 

8643298391_d47584a085_b.jpg


#181 John T Roberts

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Posted 23 July 2016 - 08:42 PM

I hate to admit it, but it just being a garage did not appeal to me, either.  I also have not been impressed by the renderings.



#182 renamerusk

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Posted 24 July 2016 - 06:38 AM

One suspects that WBM will lease/management the property to other nearby businesses (hotel, restaurants, etc.)..... Combined with the other adjacent parking garages, the garage can provide for the parking needs of other projects that may be on the drawing board.

 

I was highly skeptical from the onset that the garage-only project made little sense as a stand- alone to provide "parking perks" for employees.

 

To reiterate portions of an earlier post, the garage; now that it has been purchased by WBM, has the potential to be the support infrastructure allowing downtown restaurants and retail business the means to accommodate greater numbers of clients.

 

In a case such as this one, to look for a silver lining is, for me, possibly the better way of coming to some kind of an acceptance.



#183 JBB

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Posted 24 July 2016 - 10:31 AM

I've always said that, at the least, it's likely pulling people out of surface lots and possibly making those lots less valuable as parking.



#184 Austin55

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Posted 24 July 2016 - 10:35 AM

Does induced demand apply to parking?


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#185 JBB

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Posted 24 July 2016 - 10:49 PM

I'm not certain, but I've always felt like you could apply induced demand to anything that involves capacity.  If it comes into play here, then one could assume that the available parking opening up could spur more development.  Silver lining still intact.



#186 johnfwd

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Posted 25 July 2016 - 01:38 PM

I thought this garage was for XTO Energy employees only.  If that's the case, the "inducement" works only to the extent that XTO Energy employees move from surface lots to the garage.  This isn't "public parking," am I right? 



#187 renamerusk

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Posted 25 July 2016 - 01:55 PM

I thought this garage was for XTO Energy employees only.  If that's the case, the "inducement" works only to the extent that XTO Energy employees move from surface lots to the garage.  This isn't "public parking," am I right? 

 

 

XTO immediately sold the project to investors.  More likely scenario,  XTO during the workday and public parking night and weekends that gives the new owners a steady revenue stream.

 

See Post#149 with link.



#188 Mr_Brightside526

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Posted 27 July 2016 - 12:11 PM

I love how smart you all are!

 

I'm feeling optimistic now.



#189 Austin55

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Posted 19 August 2016 - 07:15 AM

Cp_0kYcUkAEZ3Jr.jpg



#190 Austin55

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Posted 04 September 2016 - 01:49 PM

Crc7o7uUkAAYE10.jpg



#191 renamerusk

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Posted 05 October 2016 - 02:55 PM


[Downtown Design Review Board meeting].... Incidentally, the board's 10/6/2016 agenda also includes an exterior alterations proposal regarding Cowtown Place (702 Houston St.).  Wonder if these alternations are significant? -  johnfwd

 

It looks too much like a parking garage.  It would be much better if it hid its use.  Garages in other cities are aesthetically pleasing by the use of glass, screens, metal, and other materials.

 

 

This perfectly demonstrates why I believe that existing and proposed Downtown Garage Projects ought to be reviewed for aesthetic content.

 

:no:

 

 Certainly, we should all hope so. :mellow:



#192 JBB

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Posted 05 October 2016 - 03:22 PM

It was reviewed and approved in the spring. I believe there were a number of changes made at the request of the board.

#193 renamerusk

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Posted 05 October 2016 - 04:31 PM

It was reviewed and approved in the spring. I believe there were a number of changes made at the request of the board.

 

Well Okay then;  but why, if this had already been reviewed and approved, is it now on the agenda seeking the City's permission to do exterior alterations; ....why?



#194 John T Roberts

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Posted 05 October 2016 - 04:39 PM

That is part of the DDRB rules.  If you change the design, then you are required to go back before the board for approval of those changes.  I'm not going to get into the details of the regulations, but if you want to look up the specifics, all of that information can be found on the city's website.  Also, once the building is completed, any tenant signage, awnings, tenant facade changes, etc. will have to be approved by the board.  There is one caveat.  If a project meets all of the requirements of the guidelines, then it can be administratively approved by the city planner associated with the DDRB.  My firm had a case that would have been on this month's agenda that was administratively approved. (This was not one of my projects.)



#195 Austin55

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 07:06 AM

Nearly at full height. 

 

CwNtxQ3UsAAlDFq.jpg

 

CwNt01xVYAAVaKx.jpg



#196 John T Roberts

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 07:59 AM

Even though I am not a fan of the design, it is certainly making an impact on the streetscape.  It has been a long time since we have had a full block of buildings (or in this case a building) on this block.



#197 renamerusk

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 08:40 AM

Even though I am not a fan of the design, it is certainly making an impact on the streetscape.  It has been a long time since we have had a full block of buildings (or in this case a building) on this block.

 

 Agree. Now if only, it could look somewhat like the streetscape along this section of 7th Street, then I could be more at peace with it.    I do hope that the recent report about potential exterior changes come to pass. 



#198 Austin55

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 09:01 AM

The retail along the bottom does make me feel better. Here's a plan of the lower floor- 

 

gHTj3TG.png

 

Nearly 200 feet of contiguous street fronting retail along 6th, around 140 feet along Houston, and half the block facing 7th. 

 

We never did hear more about the DDRB decision about the exterior changes. 



#199 JBB

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Posted 03 November 2016 - 11:19 AM

Is there any guarantee whatsoever that the retail space gets finished out and used? I seem to remember all of the somewhat recent garage projects downtown - Neil P. Anderson, the county courts garage (less certain on this one), and the convention center - being touted as having a ground floor retail component and none of them do at this point.

I'm not sure this was the best use of this block, but it beats the surface lot that was there and I like that it will hopefully pull XTO employees out of other surface lots. As for optimism about the recent item on the DDRB agenda, it's more likely it was minor material changes to finish out rather than a large scale change to the exterior appearance.

#200 John T Roberts

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Posted 03 November 2016 - 09:11 PM

It has come to my attention that RTKL did the original and initial design of the garage.  Schwarz-Hanson Architects inherited and took over the project after that point.  They provided the final working drawings for the garage.







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Downtown, Parking Garages, New Construction

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