2047 replies to this topic

[johnfwd]

Here's more from Fort Worth, Inc.

 

https://fortworthinc...2026E7643790G2W

[Big Frog II]

I'm curious about some of the sections show along the water. 

Like, is this not just a levee still? How are they going to make the walk along a ~30' pleasant?

 

This part looks like the section only along the bypass channel that the TRWD would still control.

[TLA]

This presentation looks great. Being relatively new to Fort Worth, I’m not carrying the same level of distrust and skepticism as others throughout the city (not here but Reddit and the like). I’m bullish on this. It’s gonna take a longer time, need interest rates to trend down, need a corporate tenant or two to move down, but overall we are riding some good tailwinds between the regional economy and population growth.

Also, glad to see the power plant incorporated. For those who haven’t been to Austin in the last decade, they revitalized their Seaholm Plant. Amazingly, they built a brand new city library adjacent.

[eastfwther]

This presentation looks great. Being relatively new to Fort Worth, I’m not carrying the same level of distrust and skepticism as others throughout the city (not here but Reddit and the like). I’m bullish on this. It’s gonna take a longer time, need interest rates to trend down, need a corporate tenant or two to move down, but overall we are riding some good tailwinds between the regional economy and population growth.

Also, glad to see the power plant incorporated. For those who haven’t been to Austin in the last decade, they revitalized their Seaholm Plant. Amazingly, they built a brand new city library adjacent.

The Seaholm project in Austin is pretty impressive and I would love something similar here.  In regards to Panther Island being Las Colinas Part II...nope.  We know the business/corporate component is unlikely and as much as I would love to see high rises and such on Panther Island, I expect it to be mainly a bunch of apartment complexes. 

[Austin55]

Here's some of my other quick thoughts: 

 

Shrinking the block sizes and tightening up the grid is a very good step IMO. The huge blocks would invite way too much "pancake architecture" 

 

 

Height limits are one that I know the forum has discussed. The new vision loosens them up a bit in terms of where they could go, and also raised the limit a bit (from 288' to 325'). I'm glad this is capped and hopefully pushes any huge skyscrapers into downtown, and also will keep PI feeling a bit more open and sunny. 

 

 

There is def a lot of focus on some sort of transit on N. Main. A streetcar would really be cool running through the island and Main is the obvious one. 

 

 

The suggest arrangement of having protected bike lanes on the new bridges is just how they should have been built in the first place. 

 

 

I love the "Bike Street" idea.

 

 

I'm glad the weird side roads for White Settlement, which has been dubbed "Panther Blvd" in the documents, have been dropped. Those always seemed like they took up too much space and were not pedestrian friendly.   

 

 

There also seem to be some notes about moving away from the heavy residential focus and more towards a mixed-use focus by inviting more office space and hotel uses. I think that's a good vision. 

[John T Roberts]

Austin, you have been doing a lot of reading.

[Jeriat]

 

This presentation looks great. Being relatively new to Fort Worth, I’m not carrying the same level of distrust and skepticism as others throughout the city (not here but Reddit and the like). I’m bullish on this. It’s gonna take a longer time, need interest rates to trend down, need a corporate tenant or two to move down, but overall we are riding some good tailwinds between the regional economy and population growth.

Also, glad to see the power plant incorporated. For those who haven’t been to Austin in the last decade, they revitalized their Seaholm Plant. Amazingly, they built a brand new city library adjacent.

The Seaholm project in Austin is pretty impressive and I would love something similar here.  In regards to Panther Island being Las Colinas Part II...nope.  We know the business/corporate component is unlikely and as much as I would love to see high rises and such on Panther Island, I expect it to be mainly a bunch of apartment complexes.

 

Well it's not like Las Colinas has an uber impressive number of high-rises, even for a suburban office complex (see the general Greater Houston area) there's not that many. 



I do see more apartments being built, but I can also see basically a shorter version of our current downtown skyline being built, and we only have like 7 real "skyscrapers" as is.

Also, "Las Colinas 2.0" is DEFINITELY NOT something I'd want anyway, because again, it's still a suburban office complex at its core. 

[Eastsider817]

The height restrictions need to be removed completely. Let the market decide what should be built. Let this city grow without restrictions.

[Stadtplan]

 

This presentation looks great. Being relatively new to Fort Worth, Im not carrying the same level of distrust and skepticism as others throughout the city (not here but Reddit and the like). Im bullish on this. Its gonna take a longer time, need interest rates to trend down, need a corporate tenant or two to move down, but overall we are riding some good tailwinds between the regional economy and population growth.

Also, glad to see the power plant incorporated. For those who havent been to Austin in the last decade, they revitalized their Seaholm Plant. Amazingly, they built a brand new city library adjacent.

The Seaholm project in Austin is pretty impressive and I would love something similar here.  In regards to Panther Island being Las Colinas Part II...nope.  We know the business/corporate component is unlikely and as much as I would love to see high rises and such on Panther Island, I expect it to be mainly a bunch of apartment complexes.
 

Well it's not like Las Colinas has an uber impressive number of high-rises, even for a suburban office complex (see the general Greater Houston area) there's not that many. 



I do see more apartments being built, but I can also see basically a shorter version of our current downtown skyline being built, and we only have like 7 real "skyscrapers" as is.

Also, "Las Colinas 2.0" is DEFINITELY NOT something I'd want anyway, because again, it's still a suburban office complex at its core. 

Meanwhile in Las Colinas (taken Thursday)

[Jeriat]

 

 

 

This presentation looks great. Being relatively new to Fort Worth, Im not carrying the same level of distrust and skepticism as others throughout the city (not here but Reddit and the like). Im bullish on this. Its gonna take a longer time, need interest rates to trend down, need a corporate tenant or two to move down, but overall we are riding some good tailwinds between the regional economy and population growth.

Also, glad to see the power plant incorporated. For those who havent been to Austin in the last decade, they revitalized their Seaholm Plant. Amazingly, they built a brand new city library adjacent.

The Seaholm project in Austin is pretty impressive and I would love something similar here.  In regards to Panther Island being Las Colinas Part II...nope.  We know the business/corporate component is unlikely and as much as I would love to see high rises and such on Panther Island, I expect it to be mainly a bunch of apartment complexes.
 

Well it's not like Las Colinas has an uber impressive number of high-rises, even for a suburban office complex (see the general Greater Houston area) there's not that many. 



I do see more apartments being built, but I can also see basically a shorter version of our current downtown skyline being built, and we only have like 7 real "skyscrapers" as is.

Also, "Las Colinas 2.0" is DEFINITELY NOT something I'd want anyway, because again, it's still a suburban office complex at its core. 

Meanwhile in Las Colinas (taken Thursday)

 

Doesn't change that it's still a suburban office complex, and that's the most important thing to focus on.

[Stadtplan]

 

 

 

This presentation looks great. Being relatively new to Fort Worth, Im not carrying the same level of distrust and skepticism as others throughout the city (not here but Reddit and the like). Im bullish on this. Its gonna take a longer time, need interest rates to trend down, need a corporate tenant or two to move down, but overall we are riding some good tailwinds between the regional economy and population growth.

Also, glad to see the power plant incorporated. For those who havent been to Austin in the last decade, they revitalized their Seaholm Plant. Amazingly, they built a brand new city library adjacent.

The Seaholm project in Austin is pretty impressive and I would love something similar here.  In regards to Panther Island being Las Colinas Part II...nope.  We know the business/corporate component is unlikely and as much as I would love to see high rises and such on Panther Island, I expect it to be mainly a bunch of apartment complexes.
 

Well it's not like Las Colinas has an uber impressive number of high-rises, even for a suburban office complex (see the general Greater Houston area) there's not that many. 



I do see more apartments being built, but I can also see basically a shorter version of our current downtown skyline being built, and we only have like 7 real "skyscrapers" as is.

Also, "Las Colinas 2.0" is DEFINITELY NOT something I'd want anyway, because again, it's still a suburban office complex at its core. 

Meanwhile in Las Colinas (taken Thursday)


 

Doesn't change that it's still a suburban office complex, and that's the most important thing to focus on.

I guess we will overlook the indoor/outdoor music venue, restaurants, convention center, light rail station, bike trails, walking paths, water features, multifamily housing, and hotels.

[Jeriat]

 

 

 

 

 

This presentation looks great. Being relatively new to Fort Worth, Im not carrying the same level of distrust and skepticism as others throughout the city (not here but Reddit and the like). Im bullish on this. Its gonna take a longer time, need interest rates to trend down, need a corporate tenant or two to move down, but overall we are riding some good tailwinds between the regional economy and population growth.

Also, glad to see the power plant incorporated. For those who havent been to Austin in the last decade, they revitalized their Seaholm Plant. Amazingly, they built a brand new city library adjacent.

The Seaholm project in Austin is pretty impressive and I would love something similar here.  In regards to Panther Island being Las Colinas Part II...nope.  We know the business/corporate component is unlikely and as much as I would love to see high rises and such on Panther Island, I expect it to be mainly a bunch of apartment complexes.
 

Well it's not like Las Colinas has an uber impressive number of high-rises, even for a suburban office complex (see the general Greater Houston area) there's not that many. 



I do see more apartments being built, but I can also see basically a shorter version of our current downtown skyline being built, and we only have like 7 real "skyscrapers" as is.

Also, "Las Colinas 2.0" is DEFINITELY NOT something I'd want anyway, because again, it's still a suburban office complex at its core. 

Meanwhile in Las Colinas (taken Thursday)


 

Doesn't change that it's still a suburban office complex, and that's the most important thing to focus on.

I guess we will overlook the indoor/outdoor music venue, restaurants, convention center, light rail station, bike trails, walking paths, water features, multifamily housing, and hotels.

 

Mainly because of where they are and how they're built... it's still more suburban than anything. Also because the primary reason for building up that area in the first place was for companies to move there, where everything else came much later.

There are still parts of that area that looks like this:



Even the picture you showed looked like it could be at some random big mall anywhere around The Metroplex. 

I'm saying I want them to start this off right and be much more urban in form.

[roverone]

Do you ever really green field build an urban area?

 

It seems it kind of evolves over time as the density becomes advantageous.

 

Being of my age, I most think of office high rise construction leading the way, and then back filled with residential and all of the food and retail and entertainment arriving meet need.

 

It seems we have found ourselves living in a post-office-tower era, even before the pandemic companies were leaving downtowns for campus settings.

 

I would be curious about what could be a catalyst for urban settings these days?

 

Is the Las Vegas strip “urban”?  It is sure dense and has a lot of large buildings.

 

Why don’t you talk about what it would be like to be standing in the area you want it to be; what would be at street level, what would be going on in the buildings?

[TLA]

Roverone, that’s a question I’ve been thinking about recently. As a lifelong Texan, most greenfield development I’ve seen are what you describe. The master planned communities sprawling out of Austin or north of Dallas or the corporate campuses in your example. The typical Texas ideal of we have the room, let’s spread out. Is this a uniquely Texas or North American thing or a 20th/21st century thing? I don’t know, all of the above.

Your Vegas example is interesting. I returned from a work trip there for the first time since the Pandemic. I forgot how much of it feels like an interconnected series of malls and seemingly no straight lines. Anyways, the greenfield that I’ve seen developed that is ‘dense but is it urban’ could be The Domain in Austin and basically its little brother the Shops at ClearFork. There’s lots of residential, office, and commercial space. However, does ClearFork feel like an urban neighborhood? I’d argue no. Some of it is weird design decisions or mandates like the Las Colinas pics above. Weirdly, the red fire lane curbs instantly make me think I’m in artificial density, it gives office park vibes rather than neighborhood vibes.

What excites me about Fort Worth is the urban settings growing out of areas that have been in the core of the city. I welcome the Panther Island project to have its urban ambitions. However, it’s adjacent to downtown. I’d be much more impressed if a developer built a dense, urban neighborhood in a far out exurb.

[roverone]

 

"Who will be able to afford to live on Fort Worth’s future Panther Island? What we know."

By Harrison Mantas

 

https://www.star-tel...l#storylink=cpy

 

 

I'm nervous about stories like this.  No one has been able to live there for so very very many years while the project has just been an expensive stalled idea.  Do I really want pressure on developers to make it less financially attractive to develop?  I also think lots of stories like this are missing the important other side of costs of land and construction -- I honestly don't know how those work out for an area like this, but for sure they must be a part of the conversation.  Would giving some land away for free be enough to meet an affordable goal?  I expect probably not.  I think the best we can hope for is some efficiency-sized units that are a little more affordable simply because they are smaller -- but if it has a bathroom and a kitchen, it is not like the costs are going to scale just by square footage.

 

I can't believe that an increase in inventory will have a long term negative impact on overall housing costs, so in that way every development helps.  The article mentions something akin to gentrification for the surrounding areas.  I don't think neighborhoods are ever static: at any moment they are going up or they are going down in value.  Development inside the loop very often includes some displacement -- I'm not sure that we should be pushing developers to the city limits.

[Austin55]

Another Star-T article, "Skyscrapers on Panther Island? Fort Worth considers changes to its zoning rules": https://www.star-tel...l#storylink=cpy

 

(with a misspelling in the first sentence...) 

[Jeriat]

 

Another Star-T article, "Skyscrapers on Panther Island? Fort Worth considers changes to its zoning rules": https://www.star-tel...l#storylink=cpy

 

(with a misspelling in the first sentence...) 

 

So there's people out there worried that Panther Island could actually become a second downtown and possibly block the view of nearby skyscrapers?

 

 

 

. . . who are these people? 

BREAKING NEWS: "Some Fort Worthians are afraid of Panther Island... becoming what it was designed to be."

[TLA]

Did any one tell them new skyscrapers downtown could block the view of downtown skyscrapers?

[rriojas71]

The consultants they interviewed also suggested a step-down approach, so tall towers aren’t built next to single family neighborhoods in the north side and Marine Park neighborhoods.

 

Do they even know the area they are consulting on?  Marine Park would not be considered next to Panther Island.  It would be almost a mile away from the northern edge of the channel so any "Skyscrapers" are not going to have an impact.  Also the only neighborhood that would be close is a small sliver between Northside Dr and Grand Ave to the west of Main St that lies to the north of Oakwood Cemetery.  So with the cemetery, the railroad tracks, a block of industrial warehouses, the new park frontage and the channel in between the Island and the Northside I doubt "skyscrapers" would have any effect on the neighborhood.

 

I'm perplexed as to why they would make that statement unless they have only looked at the area from a map.  They sound under informed to me or just clueless.

Did any one tell them new skyscrapers downtown could block the view of downtown skyscrapers?

As a resident of the Northside I'm hoping the new skyscrapers will block Burnett Plaza from my view.

[Jeriat]

 

Did any one tell them new skyscrapers downtown could block the view of downtown skyscrapers?

As a resident of the Northside I'm hoping the new skyscrapers will block Burnett Plaza from my view.

 

I live near Hulen/City View and I second this. 

[John T Roberts]

Burnett Plaza is a product of its time.  By the way, in the winter at night when it is outlined, I can see it through the trees from my front yard.

[Jeriat]

Burnett Plaza is a product of its time.  By the way, in the winter at night when it is outlined, I can see it through the trees from my front yard.

 

It could at least have a different lighting system...

Honestly, I'd say the same about 777 Main. 

[TLA]

I’ve learned to love Burnett Plaza, but if new skyscrapers block it. Bring them on.

John, I also can see Burnett from my street after the leaves falls. You can see Burnett and other downtown buildings from near Daggett Elementary on Elizabeth. A few of those North-South roads from Elizabeth are pleasant to bike on and occasionally give a glimpse of downtown.

[John T Roberts]

There are many locations along the north-south streets where you can see the skyline.  I've seen the skyline change over the years from all of these streets, since I grew up in the area.

[Jeriat]

Did any one tell them new skyscrapers downtown could block the view of downtown skyscrapers?

...Sorry, I'm still on this.

Are there REALLY people who are complaining about the skyline view being blocked? 

Because if there are, that's new to me. Never once have I heard of anyone complaining about a skyline view being blocked... mainly because that's a COMMON THING in every major city, that's not in Asia or South America. 

There are neighborhoods and parts of the city that won't get a view of even one skyscraper. I live within the 820 loop and can't see it from my apartment. And mine is facing a direction where it would be. 

[rriojas71]

I’ve learned to love Burnett Plaza, but if new skyscrapers block it. Bring them on.

John, I also can see Burnett from my street after the leaves falls. You can see Burnett and other downtown buildings from near Daggett Elementary on Elizabeth. A few of those North-South roads from Elizabeth are pleasant to bike on and occasionally give a glimpse of downtown.

I don't completely despise it and I have learned to tolerate it since it's not going anywhere.  I think I would like it a bit more if it wasn't the fact that it's our tallest building.  If we had 2 or 3 buildings taller than I wouldn't really give it a second thought.

[rriojas71]

 

Did any one tell them new skyscrapers downtown could block the view of downtown skyscrapers?

...Sorry, I'm still on this.

Are there REALLY people who are complaining about the skyline view being blocked? 

From what I took from the article the concern seemed to come more from the consultants who, as well as adjust height restrictions to add density, want to loosen the minimum height restrictions because they said that it would give developers more flexibility to create shops, restaurants and music and art venues.

[AndyN]

 

From what I took from the article the concern seemed to come more from the consultants who, as well as adjust height restrictions to add density, want to loosen the minimum height restrictions because they said that it would give developers more flexibility to create shops, restaurants and music and art venues.

 

Let's not and just say we did. I'd hate to see suburban style development on the island.

[elpingüino]

The Star-Telegram series continues,
Who will be able to afford to live on Panther Island? What we know

[Jeriat]

The Star-Telegram series continues,
Who will be able to afford to live on Panther Island? What we know

 

 

 

The consultant report from HR&A Advisors of Dallas recommended the city allow for more flexibility to attract a variety of development. Suggestions include lowering some of the height minimums to allow for more single story buildings like libraries, shops and townhomes. The report does not mention including single family neighborhoods.

*sigh*

[Eastsider817]

 

Another Star-T article, "Skyscrapers on Panther Island? Fort Worth considers changes to its zoning rules": https://www.star-tel...l#storylink=cpy
 
(with a misspelling in the first sentence...) 

 
So there's people out there worried that Panther Island could actually become a second downtown and possibly block the view of nearby skyscrapers?
 

 

 
. . . who are these people? 

BREAKING NEWS: "Some Fort Worthians are afraid of Panther Island... becoming what it was designed to be."

Do these crazy people not realize they live in the core of the city? Let Fort Worth grow without height restrictions!

[Austin55]

I got all excited that Luke was back.

[Austin55]

Council is hearing an update on proposed changes to the "North Main District, which includes loosening up the height limits in a 9-block area.

 

The proposed interim amendments to the Panther Island North Main (PI-NM) subdistrict reflect recommendations in the Panther Island Strategic Vision Update and facilitate proposed high-density, mixed-use development along North Main Street. The proposed amendments to the development standards are as follows:

 

• Increase the maximum building height of the PI-NM subdistrict to 20 stories;

• Remove the prohibition against floorplates greater than 16,000 square feet above 96 feet in height for towers; and

• Allow administrative approval of one-story structures that are either part of a development site with a building height of 6 stories or greater or accessory structures.

 

The proposed schedule is as follows:

 

• Zoning Commission and Urban Design Commission briefings March 2024

• Zoning Commission public hearing and vote April 10 • Urban Design Commission public hearing and vote April 18

• City Council public hearing and vote April 23

 

Staff plans to issue an RFQ later in spring 2024 to update the full Panther Island form-based code with community engagement. The update will help implement the Strategic Vision and help ensure that Panther Island is a vibrant urban district that builds on the area's history and character, complements the downtown core, and creates distinctive neighborhoods.

https://fortworthgov...3C-879D1DF80E2B

Notably, the first phase of Seco Venture's project falls into this area. 

[Eastsider817]

Why is this city so obsessed with height restrictions in the core. Let this city grow out to its full potential. This is not suburbia. Im so sick of our small 🤬 skyline. Its embarrassing. Almost a million people live in this city and the skyline doesnt reflect that. If you just let panther Island grow Fort Worth skyline would look amazing from North Fort Worth. You can barely see a skyline from North Fort Worth in present day Fort Worth.

[Jeriat]

Why is this city so obsessed with height restrictions in the core. Let this city grow out to its full potential. This is not suburbia. Im so sick of our small skyline. Its embarrassing. Almost a million people live in this city and the skyline doesnt reflect that. If you just let panther Island grow Fort Worth skyline would look amazing from North Fort Worth. You can barely see a skyline from North Fort Worth in present day Fort Worth.

Look, I've been beating the drum of building-Up-instead-of-OUT in this forum for years, but having a better skyline isn't more important than having a cohesive, walkable urban core.

Houston's Uptown (Galleria area) has a better skyline than ours, but there are parts of it that looks like this from the ground:





Just some perspective. 

 

[george84]

https://maps.app.goo...HXEqEh9?g_st=ic

Your point stands, I agree with you but wanted to share a link for that same view in the present day, post oak now has BRT and several new skyscrapers. My hometown is not for everyone, but I love and miss random skyscrapers popping up everywhere on a regular basis. But density is certainly not Houstons strong suit.

[Jeriat]

 

"Why is Fort Worth limiting the heights of buildings on the future Panther Island?"

By Harrison Mantas Updated April 02, 2024 2:15 PM

https://www.star-tel...l#storylink=cpy

 

 

I get this...

 

 

 

The plan is to create a step-down in heights between the skyscrapers in downtown and the single family neighborhoods in the north side, according to the report.

But I'm starting to get more concerned over this:

 

 

 

The consultants also recommended loosening some of the zoning rules to allow for more one- and two- story developments instead of the current rules, which set a five-story minimum for most of the island.

 

I feel like that would invite people to slip the rules even more to build basic ass fast food spots that you can see pretty much anywhere. 

[TLA]

Im ok with short, but not okay with pancakes. The shorter a building the less wide it should be. If we had blocks of buildings like the Holly or Schaffer Advertising packed tightly I wouldn’t mind. But I know the reality would be something low density across a full block.

By the way, what’s the parking minimums proposed here?

[Jeriat]

Im ok with short, but not okay with pancakes. The shorter a building the less wide it should be. If we had blocks of buildings like the Holly or Schaffer Advertising packed tightly I wouldn’t mind. But I know the reality would be something low density across a full block.

By the way, what’s the parking minimums proposed here?

Oh, that's ANOTHER concern I had. Although, I'm more than certain they won't do what Arlington did for years, but still... just to be sure...

[Austin55]

By the way, what’s the parking minimums proposed here?

 

Existing zoning in the form-based code has no requirement for developments to provide parking. I don't see any comments from the recent HR&A/LF study to add any requirements. 

 

I feel like that would invite people to slip the rules even more to build basic ass fast food spots that you can see pretty much anywhere. 

 

Drive-in restaurants are a prohibited use, so we shouldn't see any of those unless they get a waiver and I doubt one would be granted. 

[Austin55]

So no Chick-fil-A, Starbucks', What-a-burger or In-N-Out drive-thru windows?

 

This is the current table of prohibited uses in the current code,

 

[elpingüino]

Fort Worth Report,

Panther Island study gives advocates high hopes for better public transit
A rebranded bus route is the precursor to a possible light rail-like transit option for future Panther Island, but many unknowns remain

[Jeriat]

Fort Worth Report,

Panther Island study gives advocates high hopes for better public transit
A rebranded bus route is the precursor to a possible light rail-like transit option for future Panther Island, but many unknowns remain

Any kind of better public transit talk in this town just feels like a tease at this point. 

[John T Roberts]

I tend to agree with you, Jeriat.

[Doohickie]

 

Fort Worth Report,

Panther Island study gives advocates high hopes for better public transit
A rebranded bus route is the precursor to a possible light rail-like transit option for future Panther Island, but many unknowns remain

Any kind of better public transit talk in this town just feels like a tease at this point. 

 

Yeah, like clickbait articles.

[Eastsider817]

Panther Island is giving me West & 7th 2.0. Near Southside, West & 7th and Panther Island will all look identical before its all said and done. Its going to look nothing like the original renderings. Just a bunch of generic infill 2-3 story box buildings.

[Jeriat]

Panther Island is giving me West & 7th 2.0. Near Southside, West & 7th and Panther Island will all look identical before its all said and done. Its going to look nothing like the original renderings. Just a bunch of generic infill 2-3 story box buildings.

 

I wouldn't be THAT skeptical... but very few things ever turn out to look like the original renderings. 

[roverone]

As I have mentioned before I think, I really wish there was a way for a block or two to be platted out into individual lots, maybe some a little larger and some a little smaller, but all pretty small, and sold off to different groups with the promise they will be developed in X years and somehow some kind of deed restriction that they will be in unrelated ownership for a decade or whatever.  Introduce some diversity into the area, keep the design restrictions to the minimum of what it takes for safety and non-absurdity.  You can't force an organic feel, but you can sure do things to keep it from being full of look-alike whales if you break it up like this.  I'd like some part of the island to have the chance to look like old-time downtown or other areas, or similarly, like new areas where all of the property being individually held is revitalized one lot at a time, instead of some masterplanned whatever...  Master-planning can work if you have the budget of building a Disney park, but since we are not going to charge an admission fee to walk around Panther island, other forces choke us down to value engineering.  If some entity, and preferably an owner / operator entity, had the pride of ownership of the land and their own designed building, we might get some cool things.

 

About public transportation for the area:  It makes sense to reserve some right-of-way, but everyone needs to remember that public transport of any kind is not the cheap solution, it is the expensive solution.  Until the city figures out how to shore up our commercial tax base, we are aways going to need to go toward the cheap solution.  For sure these things rely on federal and other kinds of funding but I'm not sure how much that maps into ongoing operating costs.