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#1 Austin55

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Posted 12 December 2017 - 01:42 PM

The full PDF is massive, almost 500 pages. I've only just begun looking through it and figured the forum would have many thoughts on what is discussed. Several hot topics, like FW's image, regionalism with Dallas, and preffered growth plans are outlined.

http://fortworthtexas.gov/edplan/

 

A quick summary,

 

RESULTS. The economic development strategic plan that emerged has very specific outcomes:

1. High-wage job growth.
2. A more sustainable tax base, driven less by residential property valuation and more by commercial and
industrial investment.
3. An economy that capitalizes on high-growth businesses and the creative individuals who fuel them.
4. A commitment to “quality of place” throughout the community


#2 PeopleAreStrange

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Posted 12 December 2017 - 04:35 PM

The Dallas metro division is 2x larger, but is seeing 9x more office space under construction. :o

 

We're doing something seriously wrong when it comes to attracting new development!

 

EDIT: Page 135 (160 on the viewer)


- Dylan


#3 Austin55

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Posted 12 December 2017 - 05:33 PM

No doubt.

Star Telegram weighs in

http://amp.star-tele...impression=true

#4 Now in Denton

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Posted 12 December 2017 - 08:00 PM

I take it a step further. I say we ARE a bedroon community for Dallas and Collin County now. Fort Worth has TCU, Texas Wesleyan and start ups like UTArlington in downtown.  But I know no one personally who works in Fort Worth after graduation ? Yet Collin Co. has no major school. But they are landing white collar jobs left and right. I am not knocking junior colleges. Some use Junior college to start out. Then transfer to a TWU, UNT, UT and even a TCU or SMU. But just about every county has a junior college. But not ever county has a major four year college.

 

I am glad, finally our city leaders have taken off the blinders. But I am pretty ticked off also that little ol me. And FWF members here been seeing this problem for years ! 



#5 ramjet

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Posted 12 December 2017 - 08:44 PM

Two words.  Public schools.



#6 Austin55

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Posted 12 December 2017 - 08:51 PM

Two words.  Public schools.

 

Would better schools really attract more jobs? They would seem to attract residents, which is no issue for Fort Worth at the moment. Obviously, they play a part, but I'm not sure it's as significant.  



#7 ramjet

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Posted 12 December 2017 - 09:13 PM

It would be interesting to see where Fort Worth's big growth has been relative to the school districts the big growth areas are in.  North Fort Worth is not FWISD to my understanding, and that's where much of the population volume growth has been.  The core areas, which appear to have greater wealth, and access to Country Day, All Saints, Trinity Valley, etc. also seem to contribute to the city's growth.  I would imagine that companies like Toyota, which support upper middle class white collar jobs, are looking for good public school districts to serve their large work forces.  Just sayin'.  I did not read the report, but if it did not address the sub par schools in the FWISD, to me, it has left out a big part of the challenge of attracting the Toyota's of world to Fort Worth.  



#8 JBB

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Posted 12 December 2017 - 09:16 PM

I don't think it's a coincidence that massive growth has happened in schools north of 820 and 635 where the schools are more highly thought of (and they might not be that much better, but there's a perception there).  



#9 Austin55

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Posted 12 December 2017 - 10:46 PM

I'm surprised by a lack of talk about transit. TEXRail is only mentioned once. Mass transit, commuter rail, buses, etc are barely mentioned. Even roads and highways are really spoken of. 



#10 John T Roberts

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Posted 13 December 2017 - 08:34 AM

Austin, I want to say thank you for posting the link.  Unfortunately, I will not have a chance to read the report until I finish my architect's continuing education for the year.  I'm trying to do an online course every night until I finish my required hours.  This is the price I pay for procrastination.



#11 hannerhan

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Posted 13 December 2017 - 09:40 AM

Re: the school thing.  I'm not saying it's not an issue, but look at DISD.  It has been a disaster for decades, and yet the core of Dallas is thriving (with regards to office construction and jobs).  Schools are certainly a reason why Frisco/Plano has taken off, but they're not the reason why Dallas is kicking FW's tail in white collar job growth.



#12 tamtagon

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Posted 13 December 2017 - 10:25 AM

No doubt public schools are a primary issue of discussion planning economic goal, recruiting new business and laying foundation for a wide array initiatives intended to improve a community. It always seems the 'inner city' has the absolute worst school districts while schools on the edge of town have the best -- at least that's what the text scores and tracking data tell us.

 

I don't know all that. Really. I think we may not measure or tracking important components of education. Wouldn't be the first time testing of institutional infrastructure is the faulty aspect of measurement. Good schools are vastly more important to the evolution of communities on the edge of town than the evolution of communities in a well established city, especially in edge of town communities targeting growth among the highly educated families with abundant disposable income. All sorts of white flight and red-line issues muck up the testing of school district performance. 

 

If the community composure is minority majority, less educated than average, without disposable income, bilingual and housed within maintenance-differed infrastructure then of course the tests that show how well the up-and-comers continue to do will show the down-trodden are still down-trodden. Clearly, the schools have to adjust the classroom for the neighborhood, but really, why is it that for generations it's always the poor kids who "on average" pull down the test scores? My generalizations are sure to overlook and be ignorant of important issues in the education discussion, but where there's smoke there's fire. something like that....

 

The structure and foundation of an economic development plan to grow "downtown" Fort Worth should be simple, but for some reasons (some obvious) municipal decision makers swing influence to losing propositions and disregard strengths. HA - figuratively and literally - I think much of the impotence rests in the lap of the good ole boy network. The innovative thinking from the past has aged out of relevance, grown withered and flaccid as things actually do change in a flexible society. As the directives reinforce themselves, the become too ridged and narrowed. 

 

The Fort Worth potential is certainly there, more potential than ever, but the turn of the century happened almost a generation ago and the perception of thinking & decision making in Fort Worth is still pre-2K. Cities are supposed to be progressive, that's where society changes and grows.

 

Fort Worth is not progressive -- and that's all fine because all are certainly an equal in the way of life, but don't complain that nothing changing... when nothing changes.



#13 Austin55

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Posted 13 December 2017 - 03:54 PM

Some interesting things I've noticed.

 

Sundance is the cities largest property tax generator. XTO is 4th.... for now.

 

DQ8vCFkUIAA0Nk6.jpg



#14 PeopleAreStrange

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Posted 13 December 2017 - 09:44 PM

This study splits the Dallas-Fort Worth metroplex into metro divisions for comparison purposes. There are several instances where the Fort Worth metro division is compared to other metro areas.

 

Splitting Dallas and Fort Worth into separate metro areas would almost certainly help our image, and perhaps help us attract more business.

 

Ironically, we're less and less likely to split into separate metros as long as our employment doesn't keep up with our population growth.


- Dylan


#15 A_Random_Username

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 03:33 AM

 

 

Ironically, we're less and less likely to split into separate metros as long as our employment doesn't keep up with our population growth.

maybe if we just go ahead and split into our own metro, like we should have done 25 years ago, our employment would still be growing. assuming the potential is as high as everyone is saying it is.



#16 renamerusk

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 09:48 AM

 

Ironically, we're less and less likely to split into separate metros as long as our employment doesn't keep up with our population growth.

 

maybe if we just go ahead and split into our own metro, like we should have done 25 years ago, our employment would still be growing. assuming the potential is as high as everyone is saying it is.

 

I am now supportive of a split.  Both Fort Worth and Arlington should submit for the 2020 Census what ever forms that it requires to designate a separate metro area. 

 

An analysis and conclusions from a cost:benefit ratio outlined in EDS demonstrate that the current metro area statistics used by private industries and their research divisions routinely conclude that Dallas has a population of 7m and this always seems to ignores that the formula includes numbers from both Fort Worth and Arlington.  Businesses base their decision on statistics; if the name of your statistic is "Dallas", then it is unsurprising that Dallas would reap the greater share of economic growth.

 

Forty-five years and running since the opening of DFW Airport under the authorization of the FAA along with the shortcut term "Dallas Airport" the affect has been to cement in the mind of outside people and businesses that the region is the Dallas Region. You see even in Texas where in San Antonio, North Texas weather is reported as Dallas Weather.  You read in the national media where speculation of Amazon's 2HQ is looking at "Dallas" and its having the 4th or 5th largest population in the country. 

 

The corroboration of the Fort Worth Chamber with the Dallas Chamber(s) has significantly benefited the DCs.  Now after spending $300k, surprise, Fort Worth has an national recognition deficit, let alone an international deficit and a humiliating and unacceptable   recognition image within its own state.

 

The immediate first step for Fort Worth to take is to end joint missions with Dallas to other cities and countries to promote a region that is heavily skewed towards one city over the other.

 

The second step is for Fort Worth's Congressional Delegation to ask the Census Bureau to designate Tarrant County and region as a stand alone metro area. 

 

Step three. Now after wastefully spending $300k to discover what has been plainly knowable for near 50 years, the DFW merger brought on by the FAA, it is time for a change. The FAA should and would positively consider an application by the City for its own regional airport.  AA would not like that, but it is needed as a way to distinguish this city of 700k from it larger neighbor and to prevent this city from its continual slide towards irrelevancy.



#17 PeopleAreStrange

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 02:26 PM

Renamerusk- I agree with almost everything until the last point.

 

We already have a commercial airport, and it has flights to just about every large U.S. city (plus some international cities).

 

We need to get travel sites to refer to the airport as "Dallas-Fort Worth."


- Dylan


#18 renamerusk

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 03:01 PM

We already have a commercial airport, and it has flights to just about every large U.S. city (plus some international cities)....We need to get travel sites to refer to the airport as "Dallas-Fort Worth."

 

Yes, we already have a commercial airport; a shared commercial airport that is "ours only in our minds";  the sad truth is DFW is routinely referred to as Dallas Airport. 

 

You can not change the minds of travel sites or the general public for that matter.  The surest way to do that is to have an airport to yourself with its own Airline Code.When the travel site books your flight to Dallas and you actually land in Fort Worth, the travel site will not make the same mistake again.  And if you land in Fort Worth/West Side, travelers will actually observe that Fort Worth is a city and not a suburb of Dallas.  The clearest example of this is Newark, NJ. It faces the most oversized image deficit imaginable and works hard to keep its economic viability against impossible odds.  Fort Worth is not faced with such an extreme deficit image, Dallas is not NYC; but Fort Worth is, as the sobering report found, at risk of becoming so.

 

Other than DFW Airport, which was created to be the "sole" airport and therefore the sole economic air transport engine for NTX, I find very little convincing evidence that Fort Worth needs its own airport. If the argument were to be that NTX already has a convention center (Dallas, Arlington, Irving, Plano, etc.) then following that argument, why would Fort Worth need a convention center.  Love Field and an additional regional airport has not nor would it significantly impact its operations.

 

Give me a regional airport and the supportive jobs and services that would be require to operate it.  Give Fort Worth back its long ignored identity and image.



#19 cjyoung

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 03:05 PM

There used to be a separate Fort Worth-Arlington MSA. I remember a lively discussion on this forum when the OMB proposed the change.

 

Fort Worth has the residential stuff locked up - We just need to attract more white collar employers (or another Lockeed Martin) downtown or west that actually is a vested member of the Fort Worth community (unlike AA).

 

Secondary, we need to stop being timid with pro sports and aggressively pursue all options as they are the best marketing - i.e. "Fort Worth Motor Speedway", "Fort Worth 500", "Fort Worth Open", "Fort Worth Stars"? :laugh:  If you are going to support the Dallas Cowboys, Dallas Mavericks and Dallas Stars then they should not be allowed to take you for granted.  :ninja:



#20 JBB

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 03:26 PM

I couldn't agree more about fixing whatever went wrong with the relationship between TMS and the city and getting them back on board with clearly identifying with Fort Worth. That seems to be a no brainer and a huge missed opportunity.

As far as the MSA, that sounds like a good start, but then what? It creates a separation from Dallas as far as some behind-the-scenes governmental workings go, but does it truly do anything to fix any of the problems identified by the economic study? It's not going to make white collar employers move here. It's not going to make the news reader at MSNBC say "Fort Worth" instead of Dallas when they throw it to a reporter standing in front of the Stockyards marquee. It's not going to mean there's not another major city 25 minutes east of here. Again, great idea, but I'm not sure that it's going to do anything but make the few people that pay attention to that type of thing feel better.

#21 Austin55

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 03:36 PM

I think Fort Wort lacks sex appeal.

 

Fort Worth has a lot of suburban style development. Walsh isn't sexy. Warehouses in Alliance aren't sexy. Strip malls with walmarts and targets aren't sexy. They're appealing to 90% of the population who desire those amenities. But that's not gonna get highfalutin jobs.

 

Look at Dallas and Collin County. They've got sexy light rail. They're building sexy glass towers full of sexy upper middle class employees driving sexy Mercedes coupes. 

 

Look at Austin. They've got tall condos and apartment buildings for their hip young techies and office workers. They've got events like SXSW and ACL. Hot. 

 

Fort Worth is getting some sexy developments. Panther Island will be. TEXRail will be. Our densifying urban neighborhoods are getting there. 

 

Let's get laid, Fort Worth.



#22 JBB

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 03:45 PM

Re: the school thing.  I'm not saying it's not an issue, but look at DISD.  It has been a disaster for decades, and yet the core of Dallas is thriving (with regards to office construction and jobs).  Schools are certainly a reason why Frisco/Plano has taken off, but they're not the reason why Dallas is kicking FW's tail in white collar job growth.


I forgot to reply to this the other day, but this is an excellent point. Schools are an issue, but the problem is so much deeper than that.

The current ethics debacle going on with FWISD's board is probably worthy of its own topic. It's probably a good thing that the local media outside of the Star Telegram has left it alone since blaming the repeal of the strict policy on it being on the consent agenda makes the board look stupid and being so reluctant to pass another makes them looks like backwoods hillbillies.

#23 PeopleAreStrange

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 05:20 PM

I couldn't agree more about fixing whatever went wrong with the relationship between TMS and the city and getting them back on board with clearly identifying with Fort Worth. That seems to be a no brainer and a huge missed opportunity.

As far as the MSA, that sounds like a good start, but then what? It creates a separation from Dallas as far as some behind-the-scenes governmental workings go, but does it truly do anything to fix any of the problems identified by the economic study? It's not going to make white collar employers move here. It's not going to make the news reader at MSNBC say "Fort Worth" instead of Dallas when they throw it to a reporter standing in front of the Stockyards marquee. It's not going to mean there's not another major city 25 minutes east of here. Again, great idea, but I'm not sure that it's going to do anything but make the few people that pay attention to that type of thing feel better.

 

People who look at metro area statistics will be more likely to recognize Fort Worth as a metro anchor.

 

As for the statement I bolded, I'd argue we're more likely to attract companies and developers if they recognize us as a metro anchor.


- Dylan


#24 Now in Denton

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 05:28 PM

I'm disheartened that the first news from city hall is "change the logo" after this report. Well ok..we can look at that. But, I want and I think Fort Worth needs real red meat. Some bold new ideas. Not window dressing. On a sidenote. Read for yourself what people are saying about changing the logo. Seems like most in and outside the city don't like the idea ? Interesting.

 

One twitter poster said " Exactly how would that attract new business" I agree. But then he then goes on to say "Looks like FW is doing pretty well"  (My hand over my face in frustration)  :no:  But I think he is from Dallas so that lowers my blood pressure some. But if some in Fort Worth think "FW is doing well" Then they have no clue. Fort Worth is not the worst city in America. But at the meeting yesterday. It was said to paraphrase. We cannot expect Fort Worth to prosper economically on 12 dollar an hour wearhouse jobs alone.  

 

https://twitter.com/...429653348130817



#25 Austin55

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 05:33 PM

I like the comments that it has history to the logo. Was it not introduced in 2004?



#26 PeopleAreStrange

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 05:36 PM

There's a city council member who thinks changing our logo will attract more business? Oh, geez.


- Dylan


#27 Austin55

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 05:38 PM

There's a city council member who thinks changing our logo will attract more business? Oh, geez.

 

Even worse, the member didn't even bother looking at the plan.

 

 

Disappointing: One of the @cityoffortworth council members asked for a paper copy of the plan. He hadn’t logged in to read it. Others heard a presentation about invention, innovation and inclusion and only asked whether we need to change the Molly symbol. Old thinking at the top



#28 PeopleAreStrange

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 07:03 PM

NBC 5 has a story on this: https://www.nbcdfw.c...-464255693.html

 

Bryan Byrd (Dist. 3) seems to imply our logo is holding us back.

 

I'd be real surprised if companies or developers consider a city's logo when deciding where to locate or build.


- Dylan


#29 renamerusk

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 09:50 PM

 

.... It's not going to make white collar employers move here.   It's not going to make the news reader at MSNBC say "Fort Worth" instead of Dallas when they throw it to a reporter standing in front of the Stockyards marquee. It's not going to mean there's not another major city 25 minutes east of here......

 

People who look at metro area statistics will be more likely to recognize Fort Worth as a metro anchor.....As for the statement I bolded, I'd argue we're more likely to attract companies and developers if they recognize us as a metro anchor.

 

  No, it probably will not immediately change the City's image, but it will over time.  White collar employers will move here over time when these employers are provided with precise statistics associated with Fort Worth.  Fort Worth has the same assets as does Dallas; and a quality of life that is as good or better than its neighbor.  The thing is now, Dallas has a big head start with incredible momentum.  Dallas will not vanish or is it something desirable.

 

And Yes, as PAS so intuitively points out, statistics drive decisions. For Fort Worth to burst on to the scene, it is crucial that it brings its own personal statistical as a resume when it is wooing white collar jobs creators.



#30 tamtagon

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 07:19 AM

 Fort Worth has the same assets as does Dallas

 

...almost the same assets. Decision making and leadership in Fort Worth-Arlington is not the same. 



#31 johnfwd

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 08:05 AM

Improvements in the transportation infrastructure such as further development of a commuter rail system and the transformation of Meacham into a regional airport would greatly contribute to the city's economy.



#32 tamtagon

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 09:51 AM

I've always wanted Meacham to be viable as a commercial airport again, too, but I would think if the region gets another one, it'll be at Alliance or possibly McKinney.  



#33 renamerusk

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 10:46 AM

....but I would think if the region gets another one, it'll be at Alliance or possibly McKinney.  

 

You really miss the whole point of the EDP - the need for Fort Worth to place its interest first and to do something about it.

 

And you probably wonder why Dallas' boosters are frequently viewed as fiendish foes of what is good for Fort Worth. :angry:



#34 Austin55

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 11:02 AM

Electric Airliners might be an interesting development. Reduced noise and costs could make Meacham more viable. Electric jets would probably also cover shorter trips, which would make trips such as FW - OKC, Houston, Austin, etc more easy and convenient.  

 

Of course, this is all decades away.



#35 renamerusk

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Posted 15 December 2017 - 03:20 PM

If electric aircraft can reduce the need for longer runways and also reduce noise associated with take offs, then this will be a game changer for airports that we have today.  I like the idea; and hope that it is not "decades away".



#36 tamtagon

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Posted 16 December 2017 - 07:45 AM

 

....but I would think if the region gets another one, it'll be at Alliance or possibly McKinney.  

 

You really miss the whole point of the EDP - the need for Fort Worth to place its interest first and to do something about it.

 

And you probably wonder why Dallas' boosters are frequently viewed as fiendish foes of what is good for Fort Worth. :angry:

 

 

Hahahaha I totally get the fiendish reputation of the Dallas Booster Club, and that's a reputation frequently deserved!! 

 

"Making Fort Worth Great Again" isn't going come from matching up head-to-head anymore. The sometimes debilitating rivalry between city builder booster clubs of the 20th Century created a fluid, contiguous population center -- North Texas -- with two of everything. It's fantastic, really, and totally undervalued by many if not most. I've always thoroughly enjoyed, too, the quick shift from the Dallas Booster Club when attention shifts away from Fort Worth to Houston.... all of a sudden the family stands strong! together to dispatch any vile Houston claim of "better."  Every established city faces the same formidable suburban juggernaut sucking up all the economic growth, Dallas boosters have the same need to place the interest of that city over those of the region as a whole. Rallying the troops to put Fort Worth First is only good for the pep rally, nothing substantive will come from a spirit trophy except another dust catcher on the shelf. Neither city can find great success by focusing on the competition over entities looking for the exurb-to-suburban conversion expansion. The city of Fort Worth is unlike any place within at least 500 miles, that's the selling point, there's just not as many folks looking to buy that product, and clearly the city has failed to search for, market to and win that business. 

 

I kinda think Meacham Field seems is on the wrong side of downtown to return as a commercial airport, though, but maybe that's because I want to elevate travel generated by Arlington Sports & Theme parks traffic over business travel to DTFW and Lake Cities; but it's not likely we'll just find a way to build an airport from scratch between FW-Arl for any reason. NW Tarrant county might begin the impressive conversion to suburb wonderland NE Tarrant, but I firmly believe expanding the Nature Refuge to encompass and include most of the West Fork Trinity River catchment, roughly everything between hwy 199 & 287/114 to Jacksboro. Creating such wedges of managed wilderness will be among the most important initiatives for the future of North Texas. Like -- almost half the state's population gets its drinking water from the Trinity River - Fort Worth, Dallas and Houston, so very little is more important than ensuring that river basin is as clean and verdant as possible. Establishing urban growth boundaries which infuse managed wilderness deep into the population center geography is a quality of necessity that's only beginning to warrant awareness. Fort Worth ought to be angling to create an environmental clean-up fund to take care of all the waste sure to be left behind by the fracking industry because if anything is for sure, the companies creating the pollution will fight to the death before they accept responsibility. anyway....

 

I don't believe for a New York minute should another passenger airport be allowed to open within 30 miles of DFW that $$Alliance Airport$$ owners/operators would allow the operation anywhere outside the Alliance property straddling the Denton/Tarrant county line. 



#37 Thurman52

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Posted 16 December 2017 - 08:54 AM

So for two years I worked at the far reaches of Fort Worth (Alliance and Independence Parkway). My VP would fly in monthly from NYC and want to go to dinner. His imperssion of a Fort Worth was Alliance area assumed we were a big suburb. Dinner was always in Southlake, I tried every time to try something Magnolia or Downtown but he couldn’t understand that we are independent and have urban amenities.

Not sure exactly how to solve it but image matters and changing Molly out won’t solve that.

#38 tamtagon

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Posted 16 December 2017 - 09:34 AM

So for two years I worked at the far reaches of Fort Worth (Alliance and Independence Parkway). My VP would fly in monthly from NYC and want to go to dinner. His imperssion of a Fort Worth was Alliance area assumed we were a big suburb. Dinner was always in Southlake, I tried every time to try something Magnolia or Downtown but he couldn’t understand that we are independent and have urban amenities.

Not sure exactly how to solve it but image matters and changing Molly out won’t solve that.

 

I would start with a market plan presenting Greater Downtown Fort Worth to North Texas residents as a "dinner and a movie" and "weekend" destination.  Downtown proper is already charming, relative to the rest of North Texas, but the park and walk appeal seems pretty limited to those who already know it.

 

In a year or so the new arena will deliver a steady stream of concerts (probably), joining the very potent appeal of the museums. Stockyard Cowtown draw is built-in. Getting Dallas, Collin and Denton county residents to spend the night in a downtown hotel should not be difficult. There a lengthy thread mulling the tourist appeal of downtown, and the foundation will only come from within the region. After that, out of towners will have a viable, active and appealing alternative with pervasive local awareness.



#39 renamerusk

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Posted 16 December 2017 - 01:59 PM

(1) "Making Fort Worth Great Again" isn't going come from matching up head-to-head anymore. The sometimes debilitating rivalry between city builder booster clubs of the 20th Century created a fluid, contiguous population center -- North Texas -- with two of everything. It's fantastic, really, and totally undervalued by many if not most..

 

(2) Dallas boosters have the same need to place the interest of that city over those of the region as a whole.

 

(3) Rallying the troops to put Fort Worth First is only good for the pep rally, nothing substantive will come from a spirit trophy except another dust catcher on the shelf. Neither city can find great success by focusing on the competition over entities looking for the exurb-to-suburban conversion expansion.

 

(4)The city of Fort Worth is unlike any place within at least 500 miles, that's the selling point, there's just not as many folks looking to buy that product, and clearly the city has failed to search for, market to and win that business. 

 

(5) I kinda think Meacham Field seems is on the wrong side of downtown to return as a commercial airport, though, but maybe that's because I want to elevate travel generated by Arlington Sports & Theme parks traffic over business travel to DTFW and Lake Cities; but it's not likely we'll just find a way to build an airport from scratch between FW-Arl for any reason. NW Tarrant county might begin the impressive conversion to suburb wonderland NE Tarrant, but I firmly believe expanding the Nature Refuge to encompass and include most of the West Fork Trinity River catchment, roughly everything between hwy 199 & 287/114 to Jacksboro. Creating such wedges of managed wilderness will be among the most important initiatives for the future of North Texas. Like -- almost half the state's population gets its drinking water from the Trinity River - Fort Worth, Dallas and Houston, so very little is more important than ensuring that river basin is as clean and verdant as possible. Establishing urban growth boundaries which infuse managed wilderness deep into the population center geography is a quality of necessity that's only beginning to warrant awareness. Fort Worth ought to be angling to create an environmental clean-up fund to take care of all the waste sure to be left behind by the fracking industry because if anything is for sure, the companies creating the pollution will fight to the death before they accept responsibility. anyway....

 

(5) I don't believe for a New York minute should another passenger airport be allowed to open within 30 miles of DFW that $$Alliance Airport$$ owners/operators would allow the operation anywhere outside the Alliance property straddling the Denton/Tarrant county line. 

 

 

 You certainly enjoy wadding through a field of landmines!

 

(1) I seriously take issue with your notion that Fort Worth lacks greatness.

 

(2) True. So why is it that you feel the need to disparage the need of Fort Worth to do the same.  Dallas has climbed the ladder and will continue to pull it up by touting to a willingly gullible Fort Worth that regionalism is the path forward when Dallas' boosters inwardly acknowledge that regionalism has and does not distribute the benefits evenly.

 

(3) Rallying the troops is exactly what is needed today. There is very little evidence that remaining silence or complacent gets your issues address and the anecdotal evidence suggests that you will be marginalized when you keep quiet -- "Oh! Who knew you cared?"

 

(4) Yes. Fort Worth is different in an appealing way.  This has been born out by media reports that routinely rate it as a great place below the radar. Aside for Dallas' "kick-ass" place for jobs, what is it that you as one of its boosters can say about a city like Dallas other than its a worker's paradise.  Clearly, the proximity to one's job rates as high as anything, even above quality of life and uniqueness;  and this is what the folks of Dallas are buying.

 

Fort Worth offers a character that is instinctively recognized by its citizens and people who happen to wander over here from elsewhere.  The mistake that Fort Worth has been making is relying upon an appealing character; and even though that reliance has been  solid for growth, it has not catapulted the city to the national recognition of businesses that relocate jobs to new areas.  The EDP is a sobering report that hits the City "upon its head with a baseball bat" to the necessity to be more aggressive in prostituting itself to big business; other words "put some makeup on like its immediate neighbors and ask them to come and see you for awhile".  I think an EDP like this latest one is wayyyy overdue.  Interesting effect is that a Dallas booster feels the need to weigh in on an internal matter, either out of the realization that the EDP may be the beginning of Fort Worth to demand that it takes a more significant share of the North Texas Economy; or that booster feels the need to maintain the status quo regionalism so as to keep the margins as they are now, current.  (5) is just that attempt to maintain the status quo by injecting the environment, drinking water for Texas, etc; in other words - Fort Worth should focus on the general health of Texas while allowing other cities to focus on their economic health.

 

(5) A totally irrelevant distraction!



#40 tamtagon

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Posted 16 December 2017 - 09:11 PM

^quickly....

 

1, 2 and 3) I do not share the notion that Fort Worth lacks greatness nor do I intend to disparage efforts to improve the city. If I my observations came off that way, maybe attempting to wrap some humor into the discourse was my gaffe. I sure do understand how easily my forum-geek participation can lump me only into the Dallas Booster Club, but I have a membership in the Fort Worth Booster Club, too. Generally, I try to limit scathing observations to things going on in Dallas, but I probably wouldn't be too gentle navigating the field of landmines surrounding tender Fort Worth egos, if I feel the sentiment applies. :)

 

4) Um, well, I want more and better for both cities. Status quo maintains an EDP as an internal issue; a continuation of the limited worldview which developed a wonderful city in hibernation while all the neighbors kick it up a notch. Along those lines, what I can say about Dallas as a Fort Worth Booster is that there's a whole lot more to do in that city.

 

5) ... just responding to other comments about Meacham.



#41 renamerusk

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 03:14 PM

(1) I do not share the notion that Fort Worth lacks greatness nor do I intend to disparage efforts to improve the city. If I my observations came off that way, maybe attempting to wrap some humor into the discourse was my gaffe.

 

(2) I sure do understand how easily my forum-geek participation can lump me only into the Dallas Booster Club, but I have a membership in the Fort Worth Booster Club, too. Generally, I try to limit scathing observations to things going on in Dallas, but I probably wouldn't be too gentle navigating the field of landmines surrounding tender Fort Worth egos, if I feel the sentiment applies. :)

 

(3) Um, well, I want more and better for both cities. Status quo maintains an EDP as an internal issue; a continuation of the limited worldview which developed a wonderful city in hibernation while all the neighbors kick it up a notch.

 

(4) Along those lines, what I can say about Dallas as a Fort Worth Booster is that there's a whole lot more to do in that city.

 

 

(1)  Ok, the use of disparaging to characterize your comments is too harsh; and I will hopefully be careful not to use terminology such as that going forward.   I don't want to believe that Dallas boosters (DBC) want to really damage Fort Worth per se. However,  I feel like DBC are more comfortable with Fort Worth being within Dallas' orbit, with lumping the combined statistics into numbers of their own Dallas v Houston) ; and with projecting North Texas as singularly "Dallas".

 

(2) What complicates the issue is that Dallas is both the problem and the solution - the problem is it is sucking up more of its share of oxygen; and the solution is for Fort Worth to be more like Dallas or at least to strive to do so.  The EDP did not find that the status quo is good for Fort Worth, instead, it included that Fort Worth needs to be more active in showcasing itself and that the City has enormous potential that has not been actualized.  IMO, the causes of Fort Worth's de-actualization are discoverable, but the findings will ruffle the powerful ruling classes of the City.  

 

Tender egos are not inherently Fort Worth.  Tenderer egos present themselves in the most silly display when Dallas and Houston go at one another.

 

(3) True; but with the exception that the EDP, authored by consultants from both Seattle and Austin, Texas are advocating for Fort Worth what they know about from living in two of the more international thinking cities.  Yes, Fort Worth has a limited worldview, but the report is calling out the City for its hibernation and telling it to "kick it up a notch".  The road map laid out by EDP must be followed.

 

(4) I can read into what you say about  Dallas v Fort Worth is that there exists a quantitative difference; and not a qualitative difference between the two cities.  I predicted such [a reply] might have been your answer.

 

And I can [say]that Fort Worth, step for step, has all the quality things that are to be had in Dallas; but that it has numerically less of them; not necessarily poorer or devoid or them.



#42 tamtagon

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 05:58 PM

 

 

 

 

 

You know, I do not think in a Fort Worth versus Dallas world, I think in a Fort Worth and Dallas world.


 

 

(4) I can read into what you say about  Dallas v Fort Worth is that there exists a quantitative difference; and not a qualitative difference between the two cities.  I predicted such might have been your answer.

 

And I can that Fort Worth, step for step, has all the quality things to be had in Dallas; but that it has numerically less of them; not necessarily poorer or devoid.

 

 

 

 

You know, I do not think in a Fort Worth versus Dallas world, I think in a Fort Worth and Dallas world.

 

 

also, !!! Go Spurs Go !!!



#43 Now in Denton

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 06:15 PM

I may be wrong. But I thought that was part of the plan for the repeal of the Wright amendment ? That in exchange for Love field to grow and add expand as it sees fit. That all existing and future airports cannot be restricted either ? If Collin Co wants to build a airport for passenger service. Or if Alliance, Meacham want passenger airline service one day. They are free to do so. Weather the market place supports it ?That is another matter. If DFW or Love field will not "allow" another Airport to be built or Passenger service in Alliance, Meacham or Collin Co. Then it sounds like Wright amendment all over again 2.0 ? 

 

Who remember back in 2006 WFAA and Dallas Morning News did a story series called ? "Dallas at the tipping point" Dallas also got a report and it was gloom and doom. "Is Dallas in decline" Even this form talked about it. Eleven years later.It is. "Is Fort Worth becoming a Dallas suburb" After our economic report. I am cautiously optimistic Fort Worth will see a major change in our skyline and business in the next eleven years. IF our city leaders stay on top of this report. That is my biggest fear. That our City council starts to forget this report and let it collect dust sort of speck. That is where we Fort Worth citizens play our part. We let our current city leaders know of our concern about this report. And let not future Mayors and City Councils forget it either.  

 

I wonder if any local news will do a similar series about Fort Worth the way they did for Dallas in 2006 ? I doubt it. But I hope they do. Many links about the 2006 Dallas economic  report. But here is one . https://www.dallasne...e-tipping-point                                                                      



#44 PeopleAreStrange

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 07:41 PM

Fort Worth will never be a suburb of Dallas. Fort Worth grew into a metro anchor by itself, and what happens in the future won't change history.

 

That said, Fort Worth is at risk of becoming a "satellite" of Dallas if more Tarrant County commuters head east.

 

Plano grew large because of it's proximity to Dallas, so it's correctly considered a suburb despite all of its office space.


- Dylan


#45 renamerusk

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 09:50 PM

You know, I do not think in a Fort Worth versus Dallas world, I think in a Fort Worth and Dallas world......

 

 What do you think when you regularly hear, read or see the omission of "Fort Worth" from descriptive terminology intended to identify the whole of the metropolitan area as simply "Dallas".  Are you thinking of Fort Worth? Are people or organizations in and without of the area thinking of Fort Worth as well? 

 

There is a well proven axiom - "Out of sight; out of mind!"



#46 Austin55

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 11:08 PM

San Francisco is having the opposite issue.

https://www.google.c...ustry-inventory

#47 PeopleAreStrange

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 12:52 AM

San Francisco ran out of room to build new homes long ago. Most workers live in surrounding suburbs or satellites. That's common in many major cities.

 

How I interpret the article: San Francisco is strengthening its position as a major employment hub.


- Dylan


#48 cjyoung

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 02:22 PM

 

 

 

 

 

 

You know, I do not think in a Fort Worth versus Dallas world, I think in a Fort Worth and Dallas world.


 

 

(4) I can read into what you say about  Dallas v Fort Worth is that there exists a quantitative difference; and not a qualitative difference between the two cities.  I predicted such might have been your answer.

 

And I can that Fort Worth, step for step, has all the quality things to be had in Dallas; but that it has numerically less of them; not necessarily poorer or devoid.

 

 

 

 

You know, I do not think in a Fort Worth versus Dallas world, I think in a Fort Worth and Dallas world.

 

 

also, !!! Go Spurs Go !!!

 

Yes, Go Spurs Go!



#49 Bonfire98A

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Posted 19 December 2017 - 03:05 PM

The Dallas Morning News took the time to editorialize on the situation -- it begins as follows (hard to tell if they're being sincere or snarky here):

 

These are worrisome times, it seems, for our neighbor to the west (please note that we did not use the term "little brother." We would never say that).

 

Please, Fort Worth: Don't ever stop being 'Cowtown'



#50 JBB

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Posted 19 December 2017 - 03:33 PM

To boil this down to a problem of western heritage promotion or to suggest that anyone with a serious understanding of the issue thinks that is a ridiculous oversimplification. There is one large problem at play and one tangential secondary problem: the city has annexed and subsidized its suburban outreaches at the expense of the urban center and has allowed regional efforts to push them to a secondary role. And I would put the first problem as a far more detrimental with the second just amplifying the issue.




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