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Tandy Center/FW Outlet Mall???


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Poll: What should be done with the former Tandy Center Mall? (48 member(s) have cast votes)

What should be done with the former Tandy Center Mall?

  1. Tear it down and build a park, as planned? (13 votes [27.08%])

    Percentage of vote: 27.08%

  2. Leave it - future Tandy Tower dwellers will love having a mall downstairs. (7 votes [14.58%])

    Percentage of vote: 14.58%

  3. Convert it into FW's version of the West End Marketplace. (10 votes [20.83%])

    Percentage of vote: 20.83%

  4. Convert it into FW's Galleria Mall? (9 votes [18.75%])

    Percentage of vote: 18.75%

  5. Turn it into the new City Hall? (1 votes [2.08%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.08%

  6. Turn it into a downtown college of some sort? (ie, Texas Tech Univ at FW) (1 votes [2.08%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.08%

  7. Other? (7 votes [14.58%])

    Percentage of vote: 14.58%

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#1 Willy1

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Posted 27 June 2004 - 03:21 PM

These are just a few ideas for the Tandy Center/FW Outlet Mall. I was in there this week with a friend for the first time in probably ten years and had forgotten what a nice facility it is. While walking through the building I couldn't help but be reminded of the mall that used to be under the World Trade Center in NYC. And, given that at least one of the two towers is slated to be converted to high rise living, I thought there might be a more useful redevelopment for the old Tandy Center other than just tearing it down for a park, especially since there are plans for the Public Square in Sundance Square and the Trinity River Vision project... Just seems like that another green space in such close quarters to the others is overkill. Thought I'd see what everyone else on there thought about the plans, etc.

#2 Dismuke

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Posted 27 June 2004 - 09:34 PM

I voted "other." I would like to see the mall torn down - but I am cool with it being considered for other uses besides the park.

I would much prefer to see downtown retail on the street level throughout downtown rather than in an enclosed central location. I don't think, however, there is much chance of it ever being used as a mall again even if it isn't torn down. One of the things that made the old mall and the Outlet Square viable was the Tandy parking lot and subway. With that now gone, one would probably have a difficult time attracting typical mall shoppers without free and convenient parking.

I always thought the ice skating rink was a neat touch. Perhaps they could include one in the proposed park. Here in Texas, of course, it would have to be enclosed. But they could put a steel and glass enclosure around it and do it in a style that makes it look like the sort of ornate glass and iron buildings of the Victorian era. Here's an excellent example of something along the lines that I am talking about: http://www.palmhouse.org.uk/index.php Put something like that in the middle of the park and surround it with very nice landscaping and I guarantee you it will attract pedestrians wanting to see what it is. One could build the ice rink at ground level and surround it by such a structure. Or, one could build the ice rink below ground with the structure merely serving as the entry way/observation deck.
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#3 mosteijn

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Posted 27 June 2004 - 10:10 PM

Only the little part of the mall between the South Tower and future 2nd street would be turned into a **public** park, which I think is a fantastic idea. Most of the rest of the mall would be torn down and replaced by retail, which the parking would remain, which is also a fantastic idea. It's great to see retail spreading out from Sundance.

Dis, thanks for posting that link! I agree that the ice rink was a cool perk about the mall, and I like the idea of putting an enclosed one in the park. Heck, it doesn't even have to be that park. Maybe an enclosed rink could be included in some part of the Trinity River Vision or some other park in downtown. The design of the one in that link would be perfect.

#4 David Love

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Posted 28 June 2004 - 08:53 AM

I voted for a West End type option, but would be hard pressed to choose between that or expanded parking options for downtown.

#5 Brian Luenser

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Posted 28 June 2004 - 08:53 PM

With all the new (and planned) residences coming to downtown, retail will be king. Could even be that the old mall will have done well. Seems like a waste, as commodity prices are soaring, to scrap that much finished space.
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#6 John T Roberts

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Posted 28 June 2004 - 08:56 PM

I think what is driving the demolition is the fact that once RadioShack leaves, the center has virtually no parking on site for the two office and/or residential towers. In order for those building to lease with either office or residential uses, more parking has to be provided to make the project viable.

#7 Willy1

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Posted 29 June 2004 - 11:54 AM

has the subway tunnel been permanently sealed/destroyed, or could it possibly be reopened and rerouted if parking were built at a remote location? I really miss the subway. It was such a great way to park without a hassle and zip right into downtown. As FW grows and CBD gets more congested, that subway is going to be missed more and more. Wouldn't it be nice to have a large remote parking garage to park in and jump on a subway to zip into Tandy in order to get to Sundance Square activities? Plus, I just like the urban feel of the subway itself.

#8 hipolyte

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Posted 29 June 2004 - 03:03 PM

I always rode the subway when I went downtown. I hate wandering the one way streets now in my car trolling for a convenient parking space. Downtown sees much less of me now, and the new wierd parking meters aren't helping.
As for the overkill on greenspace, sometimes the weather gets ugly. Might be nice to have an indoor venue for 'outdoor' events.

#9 Urbndwlr

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Posted 29 June 2004 - 05:56 PM

I voted "other" because reusing the retail but reorienting it toward the street was not an option.

And what's with the "version of the West End"? Not sure what the West End represents to you, but I think of a mediocre tourist trap when I think of the West End. Besides, we need to break the habit of trying to create "our version of (city name)'s (place name)." It is tempting to do, however explaining our city in terms of others only results in our "version" paling in comparison to the original.

We can be a heck of a lot more creative than by replicating the West End.

#10 mosteijn

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Posted 29 June 2004 - 09:28 PM

I voted "other" because reusing the retail but reorienting it toward the street was not an option.

That's basically what the plan is. There would only be a 1/2 block park, plus more parking for Sundance visitors.

And I agree abot the West End plan, Fort Worth doesn't need to be copying cities (especially Dallas :huh: ). And besides, I don't see how you could do it succesfully with an enclosed, below grade mall.

#11 David Love

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Posted 01 July 2004 - 03:13 PM

It appears that many of the one way streets are being converted into two way streets due to a recent Downtown Access and Circulation Study.

The Study

#12 ghughes

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Posted 01 July 2004 - 09:41 PM

explaining our city in terms of others only results in our "version" paling in comparison to the original. - Urbndwlr

How true, how true.

#13 Willy1

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Posted 02 July 2004 - 11:06 PM

I guess I should have explained myself better when I said "our version of West End". I didn't mean to imply that we would copy the idea. I meant to imply that we would build something unique to Fort Worth that would fulfill the same needs/venues that are found in West End does in Dallas. Of course, I would never propose copying Dallas on anything. FW does developement much better! I look forward to seeing what is ultimately done with the space. I'm just a little sad to see the Tandy Center go since it was a part of my childhood and, regardless of what happens, it really is a unique space already. I just think it's ashame to see a perfectly good space be destroyed. I think converting the building to be more pedestrian friendly is a great idea. The store fronts could be reversed to allow street entrances, drawing people into the core of the building. I think the ice rink area could also double as a pretty cool concert venue with all the balcony space overlooking the rink. Live music is something we really need in downtown FW. Right now we don't really have a good live music feel to our city. It would be great if we had some great places to see great local bands other than tiny little clubs throughout the city. Will Rogers - too big for an intimate experience - and too far west. Billy Bob's - too "country western" to draw anything but country music, and too far North. We need live music venues in Downtown to really complete our downtown experience. Of course, the death of Caravan of Dreams really left a void there... But, considering I'm currently enrolled in improv comedy classes in the former Caravan Theater (now the Four Day Weekend theater) I'm not totally sad to see Caravan become Reata/Four Day Weekend. ;-)

Anyway - I am rambling... I just thought that as creative and visionary as the redevelopment of downtown has been, that surely some of the great minds responsible for the transformation could come up with something other than "tear it down". (Talk about copying Dallas!!!) Plus, the Tandy Center and the subway are part of FW's history. It could be argued that it led the way to what we ultimately have downtown now. After all it was the first big development in downtown after years of companies/building projects moving out of downtown. The 70's weren't a huge growth time for the CBD, but there was the Tandy Center and FW National Bank (The Tower). Then came the Worthington and the rest of the Bass Family developments in the 80's....

#14 Buck

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Posted 03 July 2004 - 05:51 PM

By the way, one of the subway cars is rolling again in Dallas.

http://www.mata.org/winnie.shtml

#15 gdvanc

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Posted 03 July 2004 - 10:04 PM

But, considering I'm currently enrolled in improv comedy classes in the former Caravan Theater (now the Four Day Weekend theater) I'm not totally sad to see Caravan become Reata/Four Day Weekend. ;-)

Say, my baby brother took those classes. He's still not as funny as me, though. ;-)

#16 Willy1

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Posted 03 July 2004 - 10:33 PM

gdvanc,

Then it sounds to me that you should be enrolled in the classes. LOL. They're really good classes if you're into that sort of thing. Did he go all the way through all 4 levels or did he just take a couple of the classes? How long ago was he in the classes, etc.? I'm starting the final level next week. It's fun stuff... very scary though when it comes to perorming improv in front of a live audience.

Actually - on a bragging note for FW - we're really lucky to have those guys here. I've been to see The Groundlings in LA, and they were great! These guys (4 Day) were trained at the Second City Conservatory in Chicago. Second City and The Groundlings are where a lot of really big comedy stars got their start. And, for FW to have a show/theater of this calliber is really a good thing. Our theater is SOOOO much nicer than The Groundlings and Second City, architectually speaking. The Groundlings in LA, on the famed Melrose Ave., seats about 75 people and is very simple. From what I understand Second City seats about 150, and also is a very basic theater. Our former Caravan Theater blows them away... and those two venues are where most of the SNL and MAD TV casts come from, in addition to a lot of really well known sitcom stars.

So, if anyone reading this likes improv comedy and hasn't been to see a 4 Day show, then y'all are missing something great that downtown FW has to offer!

Shows are 7:30 and 10:00 PM Friday and Saturday nights and are $15 per person for a 1.5 hour show. They have an intermission and a great little lounge/bar so you can buy cocktails. They guys are really good at what they do and put on a great show. And for anyone interested in the training school, just e-mail me directly and I'll give you information.

#17 gdvanc

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Posted 03 July 2004 - 11:47 PM

Willy, I think Zach went through two levels. Maybe three. I know I went to two of his performances. He planned to keep going in the program but took a job in the Seattle area right after his last class (around February). I've been a fan of 4DW for a while and turned him onto it. He is single and at the time was living downtown so taking the classes was not a problem. I'm married with a bunch of kids, and my wife was pretty patient (most of the time) while I was in grad school. I don't see comedy classes - or really any other kind - happening for me for a while.

I agree that Four Day Weekend is an asset to downtown. Good show!

Take care,
Donnie

#18 Willy1

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Posted 04 July 2004 - 02:10 PM

gdvanc,

Zach was in my class - he rocks! We all really miss him. He was in my level 1 and 2 class before moving to Seattle - we missed him in level 3, and are about to start level 4 next weekend. If you saw our shows then you might remember me - I'm the short guy with the shaved head.

Anyway, tell Zach I said hello and that his 4 Day class misses him!

Travis

#19 gdvanc

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Posted 12 July 2004 - 06:59 PM

Hey, I remember you, man. You're dang funny!

#20 EricTCU

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Posted 30 March 2006 - 05:16 PM

First post here since July 2004.

One tower is currently undergoing Class A office space renovations.

The other tower (I think) is still planned for condos.

Is demolition still the plan for the mall?

An existing Ice Rink would be a great place for another Dr Pepper Stars Center as youth Hockey continues to grow. An additional attraction to downtown could be a GameWorks or Dave&Busters in the site.

#21 safly

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Posted 30 March 2006 - 06:21 PM

Or like I've been saying. A bowling alley. smile.gif
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#22 Fort Worthology

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Posted 31 March 2006 - 09:56 PM

QUOTE(EricTCU @ Mar 30 2006, 05:16 PM) View Post

First post here since July 2004.

One tower is currently undergoing Class A office space renovations.

The other tower (I think) is still planned for condos.

Is demolition still the plan for the mall?


I think the mall is going to be demolished and replaced by townhomes and shops.

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#23 John T Roberts

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Posted 02 April 2006 - 06:21 PM

I attended the Downtown Tour of Homes and I had the opportunity to look at the presentation package that Gideon Toal prepared for the whole development. Essentially, all of the street grid is going to be replaced through the superblock. The mall is going to be demolished for retail, parking, and residential. It looks as if this new low rise parking structure will have the foundations for a residential tower to be built on Throckmorton Street.

#24 cjyoung

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Posted 04 April 2006 - 01:04 PM

QUOTE(John T Roberts @ Apr 2 2006, 07:21 PM) View Post

It looks as if this new low rise parking structure will have the foundations for a residential tower to be built on Throckmorton Street.


Where can I get more details?

#25 John T Roberts

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Posted 04 April 2006 - 09:53 PM

I would contact PNL, the building's owner.

#26 fwpcman

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 08:46 AM

I don't want to sound as if I'm getting impatient over this, but does anyone have any clues as to when this project will start to happen?

#27 Now in Denton

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 10:36 AM

QUOTE(fwpcman @ Apr 5 2006, 09:46 AM) View Post

I don't want to sound as if I'm getting impatient over this, but does anyone have any clues as to when this project will start to happen?



Get a copy of this weeks Fort Worth Business Press . Lots to say but it shows yet another plan and the new rendering for City Place AKA Tandy Center. Looks nothing like the rendering that are shown in Mr Roberts website. That many of us had seen in the Fort Worth S.T.

It shows all glass tower that looks very green in color to me. The crown looks nothing shown in earlier renderings. In facts it says the color and architectural look will change the overall look. They even talk about " additional tower could be constucted between the two existing towers"

Sounds like the re opening of the steet may not happen? And the mall may be saved? It does not talk about this . But this Tower talk gots me wondering. wacko.gif

I do like the new renderings. I also like the one shown in Mr. Roberts web site. What do you all think of the new renderings in the Ft W Business Press?

#28 John T Roberts

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 10:39 AM

The project has already started. I have been in front of the Downtown Design Review Board twice in the last 6 months and on both occasions, the Tandy Center was on the agenda. In March, they received the approval to replace the glass on the north tower.

That said, there has been work going on inside the towers that you can't see. One of the advantages (or a disadvantage from a construction observer's standpoint) that these towers have is underground access. A lot can be happening on the inside and unless you notice the trucks leaving the underground levels of the parking garage, you would never know work is going on inside.

#29 Fort Worthology

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 11:09 AM

The renderings of the towers that were shown on the Parade of Homes were slightly different from the ones on the site, but the basic look was the same: different glass, more windows on the residential tower, new oval-shaped crowns with cool night lighting, that sort of thing.

The biggest change was in the middle, where instead of what looked like townhomes & shops in the older renderings, a large parking structure is to be built where the mall now stands. The street is reopened. The skybridge to the Worthington is still there, thanks to the deal being struck to let City Place residents have use of the hotel's spa and maids and such. The parking structure in the middle looks to have some ground-level retail. There are plans in the rendering for a new residential tower, built atop the parking structure, if demand warrants it. The new tower is only shown in a translucent shape atop the garage - no detailing. It looks to be perpendicular to the existing Tandy Towers in those renderings.

The guy in the lobby of the tower for the Parade of Homes said the work should be done in a year to a year & a half, if I remember correctly. They're waiting on the last tenant of the south tower - the dentist - to vacate, at which point they'll start gutting the tower.

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#30 Now in Denton

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 11:30 AM

QUOTE(Atomic Glee @ Apr 5 2006, 12:09 PM) View Post

The renderings of the towers that were shown on the Parade of Homes were slightly different from the ones on the site, but the basic look was the same: different glass, more windows on the residential tower, new oval-shaped crowns with cool night lighting, that sort of thing.



I don't know what your talking about in this Parade of Homes? The oval-shaped crown that well all see in Mr. Roberts web. Is not thier AT ALL in the Business Press pic. For some reson the new rendering is not on the web stite of the FtWBP.

Drop by a book store and check it out. Page two.

#31 Fort Worthology

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 12:23 PM

QUOTE(Now in Denton @ Apr 5 2006, 12:30 PM) View Post
I don't know what your talking about in this Parade of Homes? The oval-shaped crown that well all see in Mr. Roberts web. Is not thier AT ALL in the Business Press pic. For some reson the new rendering is not on the web stite of the FtWBP.

Drop by a book store and check it out. Page two.


The Downtown Parade of Homes this last weekend. One City Place was a stop. There was a rep in the lobby of the south tower with a big book of renderings & floorplans, answering questions. That's where I got my info. The renderings were different from the ones on this site, but the towers still looked similar. That's what I'm talking about - if there's another rendering that looks completely different, maybe things have changed. As late as Saturday and Sunday, they were showing the renderings I described above.

I'll check out the renderings in the mag.

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#32 Shocker

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 07:14 PM

I'm looking at some computer generated pics that David Porter gave me. To me the towers do look pretty similar to the images seen here on this website. Specifically, the crowns look like the earlier images show them. Mr. Porter told me the glass would be more of a green tint and flush with the concrete until the top floor where it will be recessed a little bit. In this pic the future potential tower is located at the northeast corner of 2nd and Throckmorton (right across Throckmorton from The Worthington). I believe he referred to it as "Phase 3" and I believe he said if built it would be 16 floors. At the bottom it says "For more information please call 214-379-9000." Oh yeah and he said he wants to do a restaurant with a large outdoor component at the sub-street level on the west side of Taylor Street (between the street and the technology building where lots of trees are right now).

#33 John T Roberts

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Posted 05 April 2006 - 09:23 PM

Shocker, I had a chance at the Tour of Homes to go through the printed book in detail that was on display. There are a few minor changes to the tower designs as presented in the renderings David Porter sent to me. I have also been in a two of the Downtown Design Review Board meetings where parts of City Place have been presented for approval. Another part is going to be on the DDRB agenda for April 13th for discussion.

"III. Discussion Items....

....C. CITY PLACE II - ITEMS RELATED TO THE LOWER PORTION OF THE TOWER AND THE TOP FEATURE."




#34 RD Milhollin

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Posted 06 April 2006 - 06:05 AM

QUOTE(Now in Denton @ Apr 5 2006, 01:30 PM) View Post

I don't know what your talking about in this Parade of Homes? The oval-shaped crown that well all see in Mr. Roberts web. Is not thier AT ALL in the Business Press pic. For some reson the new rendering is not on the web stite of the FtWBP.

Drop by a book store and check it out. Page two.


Denton, I looked at the online version and the illustration seems to be a PHOTO not an architectural rendering. The photo shows the tower as it is now, not how the developers envision it appearing in the future.

Try this as an early rendering of the redevelopment plans

http://www.fortworth...wtopic=290&st=0


#35 Now in Denton

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Posted 06 April 2006 - 08:19 AM

QUOTE(Prairie Pup @ Apr 6 2006, 07:05 AM) View Post

QUOTE(Now in Denton @ Apr 5 2006, 01:30 PM) View Post

I don't know what your talking about in this Parade of Homes? The oval-shaped crown that well all see in Mr. Roberts web. Is not thier AT ALL in the Business Press pic. For some reson the new rendering is not on the web stite of the FtWBP.

Drop by a book store and check it out. Page two.


Denton, I looked at the online version and the illustration seems to be a PHOTO not an architectural rendering. The photo shows the tower as it is now, not how the developers envision it appearing in the future.

Try this as an early rendering of the redevelopment plans

http://www.fortworth...wtopic=290&st=0


Atomic Glee and Parie Pup maybe the OVAL crown is still thier mybe the FTBP pic shows it looking head on but still.......... details on the face don't look the same from renderings we have been seeing for about a year now. Anyway thanks for your input guys. biggrin.gif

#36 fwpcman

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Posted 06 April 2006 - 08:53 AM

That's great news. I'll have to check out the Business Press. So as soon as the dentist vacates the south tower, they can start to fill that cavity.

#37 redhead

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Posted 04 June 2006 - 09:25 PM

ARgh, ARGH, argh...No PUN intended...still waiting on that CAVITY...maybe it's a root canal by now... rotflmao.gif

#38 John T Roberts

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  • Interests:Architecture, Photography, Bicycling, Historic Preservation

Posted 01 February 2008 - 06:02 AM

The Central Block of the Tandy Center (the old retail space) is going back before the Downtown Design Review Board on February 7th. The developers have changed their plans again and they have decided not to tear the building down. This is due to the nation's credit problems.

Here is the DDRB agenda item:
DG08-016 200 Throckmorton Street; City Place Central Block
Owner / Applicant: PLN Fort Worth, LP
DUDD
Requests a Certificate of Appropriateness for renovation and adaptive reuse of existing
outlet mall, known as City Place Central Block. Proposed work includes:
1. Demolition of existing building to reopen Second Street and installation of a new
façade on Second Street;
2. Installation of a new aluminum and glass storefront at levels 1 and 2 on
Throckmorton Street, Second Street, and Taylor Street;
3. Removal of exterior walls on level 3 (new parking);
4. Construction of a new 5th level for parking;
5. Installation of a white mesh fabric to screen parking at levels 3, 4, and 5 on
Throckmorton and Second Streets; and
6. Painting the existing concrete and masonry structure white.


Below is a link to the Fort Worth Star-Telegram article. I was hoping they had the new rendering online, but it doesn't look like it is available right now.

http://www.star-tele...ory/446652.html






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