33 replies to this topic

[tinman1412]

Hi All,

I started looking at The Tower condos again. There are many more on sale now than when I started looking 4-5 months ago. Why is that. I'm just looking for a 1-bedroom with a nice view. Their 923 Ft. units are large enough for me and my wife. What is a good price point to buy the condos. They are listing them around $220K-$230K. What would be a fair offer for a unit that is listed at $220K?. It seems like a good time to buy right now. Thoughts?

[Brian Luenser]

Hi All,

I started looking at The Tower condos again. There are many more on sale now than when I started looking 4-5 months ago. Why is that. I'm just looking for a 1-bedroom with a nice view. Their 923 Ft. units are large enough for me and my wife. What is a good price point to buy the condos. They are listing them around $220K-$230K. What would be a fair offer for a unit that is listed at $220K?. It seems like a good time to buy right now. Thoughts?

I believe there are fewer for sale than there was 4 months ago. And always a low amount. Any high end neighborhood has 10% of their homes for sale. (Executives move more than anybody.) And condo's historically have higher turnover than houses for many reasons. Besides the obvious, "My darling daughter did not grow up there,... Fido is not buried in the back yard,... I already have so much work done on the yard." As well as being the perfect market. Everybody knows within a few percent what their home is worth because several identical homes in the same building sold recently."

Moving into the Tower is the best thing that ever happened to my wife and I. I love the building and the people in it, as well as living in Sundance Square. It is Miller time, all the time... forget the yard work, roof leaks etc... The walls are nearly soundproof. In 3 years I have never heard evidence of another resident. You don't hear TV's, toilets flushing or laughing, yelling or anything else. We walk nearly anywhere we want to go. My wife and I fill our cars with gas once a month. We could not love it more. (I am on my second condo here.)

PS. the dues are MUCH cheaper than most house expenses. (Homeowners ins., repairs, security, yard/pool expenses) and super cheap utilities etc. Go for it!

[safly]

Hi All,

I started looking at The Tower condos again. There are many more on sale now than when I started looking 4-5 months ago. Why is that. I'm just looking for a 1-bedroom with a nice view. Their 923 Ft. units are large enough for me and my wife. What is a good price point to buy the condos. They are listing them around $220K-$230K. What would be a fair offer for a unit that is listed at $220K?. It seems like a good time to buy right now. Thoughts?

Many more are probably FOR SALE because it is THE selling time of the year. And you picked a great time to SHOP AROUND.

A good mortgage calculator site.
www.bankrate.com


IF it is VACANT:
I say counter with $198,445.00 and tell em to throw in a plasma screen (of your choice) for kicks, and either a local bar VIP membership for 2 years, RANGERS and COWBOYS season passes '08-'11, or about 300K AA miles. It seems like they should be willing to IMPRESS YOU ENOUGH for YOUR BUSINESS. Trust me, they will be doing alright if they are able to get this property off of their hands at this NEW price. It was most likely an INVESTMENT ASSET to them, so no hard feelings. Strictly business. I'm sure they overshot the DTFW condo market and are in PANIC MODE like many others. It happens.

When you are in negotiations and in the buying process. Keep in mind that you are not impressed so much by the location or accessibility, BUT MORE IMPRESSED with getting A GREAT DEAL! Make the payments work for you and keep in mind of the fixed costs. Most agents who take on a condo sale will think it is an easy sell, and it SHOULD BE. But then again these aren't the easiest of times for everyone. So make your case matter, make it significant. If they can't offer you all the attractions, then negotiate with a lower price. It shouldn't hurt you to wait another 6 months. And NEVER tell them what EXACTLY you can afford, just ballpark it low until you sign YOUR NAME on the contracts.

You also have to take into account your insurance, HOA, and then RISING property taxes. Tell em (TOWER Mgmt.) to CAP YOUR HOA at _____ price and that it be transferable, no exceptions! Do this before signing ANYTHING.

REMEMBER, ANYTHING YOU WANT IS NEGOTIABLE.

BON CHANCE!

[Bart]

Everytime a person looks at the listings there are at minimum 10% for sale in the Tower. A better question that I think should be asked is how long have those people who are selling owned; years, months, etc. My presumption is that unlike those who have a distinct preference for the condo-life, many buyers have grand visions of living in the Tower, buy into it, and then realilze that it is not for them.

If a person is currently in a home and lived that style for some time, then the leap from that right over other "low-rise" options in d-town to the Tower may be a bit of a shock. Considering that if you have to drive often, parking in the Tower is not convenient; the garage mgrs have mentioned several times that they can't get the Tower residents to park on the assigned upper floors of the garage. Saving just an extra few floors of elevator ride to floor 2 or 3 must be worth it as opposed to parking in the purchased spots (something like $10 or $20k?) one floor up. Also, various comments have been posted on the Forum regarding the inconveniences associated with living there. However, there have been many conveniences listed on the Forum also. So, you just need to weigh all of the issues and activities in your daily life and see how frequently you do each and how those would be affected.

[Brian Luenser]

Hi All,

I started looking at The Tower condos again. There are many more on sale now than when I started looking 4-5 months ago. Why is that. I'm just looking for a 1-bedroom with a nice view. Their 923 Ft. units are large enough for me and my wife. What is a good price point to buy the condos. They are listing them around $220K-$230K. What would be a fair offer for a unit that is listed at $220K?. It seems like a good time to buy right now. Thoughts?

Many more are probably FOR SALE because it is THE selling time of the year. And you picked a great time to SHOP AROUND.

A good mortgage calculator site.
www.bankrate.com


IF it is VACANT:
I say counter with $198,445.00 and tell em to throw in a plasma screen (of your choice) for kicks, and either a local bar VIP membership for 2 years, RANGERS and COWBOYS season passes '08-'11, or about 300K AA miles. It seems like they should be willing to IMPRESS YOU ENOUGH for YOUR BUSINESS. Trust me, they will be doing alright if they are able to get this property off of their hands at this NEW price. It was most likely an INVESTMENT ASSET to them, so no hard feelings. Strictly business. I'm sure they overshot the DTFW condo market and are in PANIC MODE like many others. It happens.

When you are in negotiations and in the buying process. Keep in mind that you are not impressed so much by the location or accessibility, BUT MORE IMPRESSED with getting A GREAT DEAL! Make the payments work for you and keep in mind of the fixed costs. Most agents who take on a condo sale will think it is an easy sell, and it SHOULD BE. But then again these aren't the easiest of times for everyone. So make your case matter, make it significant. If they can't offer you all the attractions, then negotiate with a lower price. It shouldn't hurt you to wait another 6 months. And NEVER tell them what EXACTLY you can afford, just ballpark it low until you sign YOUR NAME on the contracts.

You also have to take into account your insurance, HOA, and then RISING property taxes. Tell em (TOWER Mgmt.) to CAP YOUR HOA at _____ price and that it be transferable, no exceptions! Do this before signing ANYTHING.

REMEMBER, ANYTHING YOU WANT IS NEGOTIABLE.

BON CHANCE!

Again, the Tower is almost a perfect model of Capitalism. You know what to ask for (or pay) for a unit based on almost identical sales. If I am sell my unit, why would I except 25k less than everybody else is selling their identical unit for? I wouldn't, of course. And never believe everything is negotiable. It isn't. Like HOA fees. I can tell you as a Director on the Board of the Tower (And Treasurer) that asking for your HOA fees to be capped would be a good laugh for us. The HOA is gets the required fees from every unit whether it is vacant or not. Our costs are actually less if it is vacant. All the units (Except for the Penthouses) sold out immediately. We have been getting dues on every unit (Including the Penthouses) ever since. But again, the HOA fees are small compared to the costs of running and maintaining a home.
Parking has its pros and cons. I like it. A reserved space in a caged area not available to the public. (I have the only cheap car in it.) A bit of a hassle carrying groceries but some times it's the only exercise I get. I am great with it now. You will love it!

[UncaMikey]

I think there are two different questions here, getting jumbled together.

First question is, do you want to live in the Tower? This is a matter of personal preference. There's much to be said for living there; we considered it before and will likely consider it again.

Second question is, having decided you want to live there, do you want to rent or buy? This can be answered a bit more objectively, I think -- it's much cheaper to rent at the Tower than to buy. I admit I am biased against owning, myself; I've bought and sold houses over the years but plan on being a renter from now on. Between the high Texas property taxes and HOA fees, there's a significant monthly cost to owning one of the units even without a mortgage.

I haven't checked the latest offers, but if a $230K unit can be rented for around $1500-$1600, why would you buy? At the very least, it would make more sense to rent for a year or so and make sure you like living there. If you love it and plan on staying a long time, then a purchase may make sense.

[tinman1412]

I guess I can always have a real estate agent do a market analysis and show me what other units have sold within the past 6 months to get an idea of the ballpark figure if I choose to buy. I have visited The Tower once, and it's very nice, especially if you get a unit with a great view. I just wanted to make sure that it's a buyer's market for a condo at The Tower

[Keller Pirate]

If the same units range in price from 220-230K you can see already there is some difference in how motivated the sellers are. Safly sometimes gets a little carried away but, I would take 10 percent off the asking price for my original offer. Now 199,000 might sound good to a buyer, but not a seller so I wouldn't go below 200,000. I would expect the seller to come back with a counter offer somewhere in between.

A property is only worth what someone is willing to pay, if the seller thinks you are the best they can do, you will get the property, if not you won't.

I don't think you can beat the Tower for location. UncaMikey made some good points about owning. A 220K unit will run around $6600 a year in property taxes. The HOA dues aren't bad, but as the Tower gets older I would worry about a special assesment for major repairs. On the other hand, your rent money will be paying taxes and HOA dues for the owner.

Good luck on whatever you decide.

[Brian Luenser]

If the same units range in price from 220-230K you can see already there is some difference in how motivated the sellers are. Safly sometimes gets a little carried away but, I would take 10 percent off the asking price for my original offer. Now 199,000 might sound good to a buyer, but not a seller so I wouldn't go below 200,000. I would expect the seller to come back with a counter offer somewhere in between.

A property is only worth what someone is willing to pay, if the seller thinks you are the best they can do, you will get the property, if not you won't.

I don't think you can beat the Tower for location. UncaMikey made some good points about owning. A 220K unit will run around $6600 a year in property taxes. The HOA dues aren't bad, but as the Tower gets older I would worry about a special assesment for major repairs. On the other hand, your rent money will be paying taxes and HOA dues for the owner.

Good luck on whatever you decide.

I don't disagree with any of this really. You are not going to get that much of a discount but it won't hurt to try.

A hunk of the HOA dues goes for future capital repairs. We have had a very comprehensive study about how much needs to be funded on an annual basis to cover big repairs. We are in great shape. I feel I am much more protected against a huge expense than I would be in a house. Not only do we have a large capital fund for huge repairs but remember any big expense is split 300 ways! And the building is mostly brand new in 2005.

But my best argument for living in The Tower is attached. I took this pic very early Sunday morning while the coffee was brewing and my fat Sunday paper was sitting at my door. (That would be the front door) I don't think there is a nicer living room in any "working man's" house in Fort Worth. Also pic from the 5th floor from 2 weeks ago.

[gdvanc]

i hate you and your stupid living room, i say jealously.

and you know above-ground pools are déclassé.

[PLS]

along with the majority of americans, i don't think right now is a great time to buy any residential real estate (condo or otherwise) - and that's probably why you should. if you have the gusto to be a contrarian, history shows it typically pays off in the long run.

the tower is a cool development. right now, it's basically the only game in town. in the next 12-18 months there will be some competition down the road at the omni, but the location of the tower is far better, imho. if indeed there are more units on the market right now (seems to be some disagreement among the responses thus far), it is likely due to the time of year and nothing more.

i would take what saf says with a grain of salt - the guy has some good insight, but often takes ideas and suggestions to one extreme or the other. like kp said, keeping an offer above a certain psychological threshold would probably help you out a lot. you want a buyer to think you're serious enough to buy, and if you offer too little you're just as likely to anger them as you are to get a counter-offer.

despite what you may read in the national press, residential real estate isn't that bad locally. use the prevailing negative sentiment to your advantage should you decide to buy. good luck.

[UncaMikey]

monee, Those pictures are the best and most persuasive argument for living in the Tower yet!

[safly]

Nice pics man.

BTW, that 714 Main building will be another NEW residence to consider real soon.

Happy hunting.

(Yawn.)

[JBB]

714 Main is being renovated as office space for XTO.

[safly]

Ohh, that bites.

[Fort Worthology]

Ohh, that bites.

Not really. The plan to convert 714 Main to lofts was, frankly, awful. It would have converted the first 6-8 floors of the building into a parking garage - including the ground floor. It would have been very sad indeed. The building's in better hands with XTO.

[safly]

What if they designed the first 6 floors with INTERNAL parking and EXTERNAL RETAIL. Is it even possible? Prolly not. But I know YOU would dig it if they could.

[David Love]

Happy Friday the 13!

There are actually about 3 maybe 4 percent fewer units on the market than several months back. If you ask any Realtor that moves property here, that seems to be the norm for summer.

Prices will vary by floor and exposure, as will sounds and views, obviously. It's just my opinion that prices are near where they should be, TAD still hasn't figured out what some units should be valued at, mine included. Urban residential seems to run 180 degrees out of sync with the regular real estate market, not many that move in here are waiting for the kids to get out of school.

Just a regular Friday off my balcony, please excuse the image quality, I took it with my phone.

I may have some extra tickets for the freestyle motocross tomorrow, if anyone's interested let me know.

[redhead]

"Safly sometimes gets a little carried away"

Really??? I hadn't noticed...

On a more serious note, I think the time to buy is NOW. RE in TC has not tanked like other parts of the country, and downtown RE particularly is insulated. Why? There is no more DT land, and there is no overbuilding like big D and other DT markets. The total number of units on the market is quite low, and there is nothing new going to start...714 went office and I dare say that David Porter's second building may follow that lead. Doesn't leave much competition or negotiating room for what is on the market. I wouldn't be surprised to see Ed Bass pull his old plans for "The Cassidy" out of the file and dust them off if the Omni and VDL keep selling---and at their asking price. Both of those make the Tower look like a bargain!!!

[safly]

Lil BOXING tonight I see.

[safly]

"Safly sometimes gets a little carried away"

Really??? I hadn't noticed...

On a more serious note, I think the time to buy is NOW. RE in TC has not tanked like other parts of the country, and downtown RE particularly is insulated. Why? There is no more DT land, and there is no overbuilding like big D and other DT markets. The total number of units on the market is quite low, and there is nothing new going to start...714 went office and I dare say that David Porter's second building may follow that lead. Doesn't leave much competition or negotiating room for what is on the market. I wouldn't be surprised to see Ed Bass pull his old plans for "The Cassidy" out of the file and dust them off if the Omni and VDL keep selling---and at their asking price. Both of those make the Tower look like a bargain!!!

Enough with the name dropping already.

[Fort Worthology]

What if they designed the first 6 floors with INTERNAL parking and EXTERNAL RETAIL. Is it even possible? Prolly not. But I know YOU would dig it if they could.

Probably problems with the space to do that.

I would not be in favor of *any* proposal that involved converting *any* of that building to parking, no matter what they did on the outside. It's too great a building to be scarred like that. Keep the cars in another garage or underground, not in a beautiful building. Ditto the Hollywood Theater, another shame.

[Fort Worthology]

I wouldn't be surprised to see Ed Bass pull his old plans for "The Cassidy" out of the file and dust them off if the Omni and VDL keep selling---and at their asking price.

I've been thinking the same thing. Bass is just waiting and seeing - I tend to think the Cassidy is a "when" not an "if" at this point. He's in no rush, but it'll happen one of these days.

[safly]

This market? 4 to 10 years.

[John T Roberts]

Kevin, I want to wish you a belated Happy Birthday!

[safly]

Kevin, I want to wish you a belated Happy Birthday!

Happy Birthday Weekend Kevin!

[ChevyRDC]

If the same units range in price from 220-230K you can see already there is some difference in how motivated the sellers are. Safly sometimes gets a little carried away but, I would take 10 percent off the asking price for my original offer. Now 199,000 might sound good to a buyer, but not a seller so I wouldn't go below 200,000. I would expect the seller to come back with a counter offer somewhere in between.

A property is only worth what someone is willing to pay, if the seller thinks you are the best they can do, you will get the property, if not you won't.

I don't think you can beat the Tower for location. UncaMikey made some good points about owning. A 220K unit will run around $6600 a year in property taxes. The HOA dues aren't bad, but as the Tower gets older I would worry about a special assesment for major repairs. On the other hand, your rent money will be paying taxes and HOA dues for the owner.

Good luck on whatever you decide.

I don't disagree with any of this really. You are not going to get that much of a discount but it won't hurt to try.

A hunk of the HOA dues goes for future capital repairs. We have had a very comprehensive study about how much needs to be funded on an annual basis to cover big repairs. We are in great shape. I feel I am much more protected against a huge expense than I would be in a house. Not only do we have a large capital fund for huge repairs but remember any big expense is split 300 ways! And the building is mostly brand new in 2005.

But my best argument for living in The Tower is attached. I took this pic very early Sunday morning while the coffee was brewing and my fat Sunday paper was sitting at my door. (That would be the front door) I don't think there is a nicer living room in any "working man's" house in Fort Worth. Also pic from the 5th floor from 2 weeks ago.

Great pixs. The amazing thing is that every evening you open your front door as you arrive home - this veiw is what you walk into! We also love living at the Tower.

[hooked]

It looks like Kevin may have been right regarding the Cassidy - workers just installed a "Cassidy" logo in the concrete where the Tower sales office used to be. I think it's on the corner of Throckmorton at 3rd Street, across Throckmorton from the Chase Bank Building. Is this where it was supposed to be built, or just the sales office?

Forgive me if there's been a recent post about this, I've been gone for a while.

[John T Roberts]

The Cassidy has always been scheduled to be constructed at the corner of 3rd and Throckmorton.

[Tower Renter - NOT Buying]

If you're really thinking of moving to The Tower, you might want to take a very close look at the rules. Here are some hidden gems...

• $300 move in/move out fee
• deliveries (including move in/out) only allowed M-F, 8-5...so if you work, tough
• party room rental -- I don't even know how much this'll run you. It varies based on when you want to use it and for how many people.
• parking - must park in spot, which will be on 4, 5 or 6. forget to swipe your pass, $10/day that you screw up!
• renters are 2nd class citizens -- that's not a rule, just ridiculous

I was considering buying, but would rather spend the fortune I'm spending on rent than get locked into this building. The Tower certainly has its benefits (location, location, location)...I would still never invest in this place.

[Brian Luenser]

If you're really thinking of moving to The Tower, you might want to take a very close look at the rules. Here are some hidden gems...

• $300 move in/move out fee
• deliveries (including move in/out) only allowed M-F, 8-5...so if you work, tough
• party room rental -- I don't even know how much this'll run you. It varies based on when you want to use it and for how many people.
• parking - must park in spot, which will be on 4, 5 or 6. forget to swipe your pass, $10/day that you screw up!
• renters are 2nd class citizens -- that's not a rule, just ridiculous

I was considering buying, but would rather spend the fortune I'm spending on rent than get locked into this building. The Tower certainly has its benefits (location, location, location)...I would still never invest in this place.

As a Director at the Tower (since the begining and re-elected), I would like comment on a few of these things as some were my ideas. Not trying to convince you to rent or buy at the Tower. Believe me.

$150. move in/out. Moving in or out of a skyscraper is a big deal. You need to lock down the service elevator (Servicing 292 condos) for hours. It takes a security person to man open doors to the docks. (Read over-time) and most of all it is hard on the building. Particularly with renters moving in and out. They damage the walls, carpet, tiles, lights, elevators and even sprinklers. We decided the best person to pay these costs are the people moving in or out. For those of us that plan on living there for many years, and care about the place, a $300. fee is OK and fair with us.

Deliveries can be had 7 days a week. Just not big moves of furniture. You want a big screen TV delivered on a Sunday? Not a problem. Security is happy to unlock dock doors and help.

Party room rental. Small charge to cover wear and tear. Common in the hi-rise business and fair. We just re-carpeted and re-tiled after 3 years. Who should pay for those costs? The people that use it would be the most fair. Some people have never had a party there and some people have had dozens. Too fair.

Parking. You have to park in your reserved spot. Der.

Living at the Tower is not for everybody. Not you, for sure. We are OK with that. I am thinking there is an apartment nearby that will fit you to the T. Good luck to you!

Living at The Tower is maybe the greatest thing that has ever happened to me. I could not be happier there.

[Fort Worthology]

Parking. You have to park in your reserved spot. Der.

I'm a bit surprised that that was considered a hidden "gem" to dissuade people. Everywhere I've lived downtown had reserved parking. I had a reserved spot at the Electric Building, and I have a reserved spot at the Sanger Building. I didn't think it was really all that odd.

[hooked]

Parking. You have to park in your reserved spot. Der.

I'm a bit surprised that that was considered a hidden "gem" to dissuade people. Everywhere I've lived downtown had reserved parking. I had a reserved spot at the Electric Building, and I have a reserved spot at the Sanger Building. I didn't think it was really all that odd.

I've never seen anybody parking on level six, either. Seems like it might be a bit difficult, since there's no ramp . . . and it's OFFICE space.

[David Love]

If you're considering living downtown then you already know most of the perks.

What most overlook is that HOA dues even out to what you'd pay for home owner's insurance plus a small fraction of the maintenance for a house in the burbs. If you have a chance to rent in a neighborhood before buying I think that's always a good choice and some of the rental units rent for less than what you'd pay to own, guessing it's more of a write-off for some.

Parking is sometimes a pain but you do drive less, so it's a little less painful than you'd initially think. I do find it odd that a person in Sangar Lofts can park their cars in the public areas of the Tower garage but they prefer owners stick to their assigned spots in the secured areas, guess it makes more room for the valets parking restaurant patron's cars.

The move fees make sense since you technically only do it once and it covers a security person manning the freight elevator which speeds up the move and minimizes the inconvenience to those still living here and with 275 plus homes there is a LOT of moving. The neat thing about deliveries is you don't even have to be here for deliveries to be made.

ANY high-rise is going to have rules and fees, most of the rules are in place for safety or to prevent small groups with little or no vested interest in the place from ruining it for everyone else, the fees are to offset high cost areas so that those using them the most help offset the overall costs which in turn keeps "everyone's" HOA dues from going up.

With a building of this size and the number of people living here, there is always maintenance going on somewhere.

Doesn't matter how you slice it, property taxes downtown are horrible and I don't see them getting any better, ever.