142 replies to this topic

[John T Roberts]

I believe there was.  I also think the pocket park was dismantled.  It's funny, I go down Magnolia at least once per week, yet when you are driving, you don't notice the details.

[Jeriat]

No photo, but there's a red/white barricade around the site now. 

[txbornviking]

Any word on why nothing really seems to be happening at the site of this project?

[panthercity]

Yeah, Ive been curious myself. Isn't this where they moved the small park from?
 

[txbornviking]

Yeah, Ive been curious myself. Isn't this where they moved the small park from?
 

 

exactly that location...

[Austin55]

The disappearance is odd. Completely cold.

[renamerusk]

Any word on why nothing really seems to be happening at the site of this project?

 

 

The disappearance is odd. Completely cold.

 

 Although I love the idea of a hotel in the Magnolia Ave District, there was a uneasy feeling on my part that this was a bit too ambitious for this neighborhood; other words, is there actually sufficient demand for a mid size hotel in MAD?

 

I do believe that a Byers Avenue Boutique hotel model [http://www.fortworth...5f636ca257.html] would be a better business plan for this sector.  Even two or three additional BABs in MAD might make more sense.

 

Without any evidence to support my speculations, perhaps BB&P and the Magnolia Hotel Developer(s) are reevaluating the project to be a smaller project; that I could understand.

[arch-image]

I have wondered about that also Rename, I love this area and see it continuing to grow and expand similar to the growth and what has happened in the Bishops Arts area in Dallas. Both have a ton of potential as very cool areas but can they support a Hotel? I think Marriott's new Moxy flag fits really well or Hilton has developed a new Flag Called Motto that could also work well. Both are heavily going after the younger market and it's all about play and fun. The Motto is setup for connecting rooms and having some with even bunk type Beds. I have spoke with several people about the areas and they still aren't convinced but the Magnolia area I feel is close enough to the Hospital district as well as a few other draws for businesses and I think even close enough to downtown to draw some from there when talking the younger crowd. As well, if you start looking for land today your about 2 years out from open and even more will be built up in that area, we just need someone with some vision! 

[Austin55]

From the upcoming TIF #4 (Southside) agenda this coming Wednesday

Update on Magnolia Hotel project at Magnolia Avenue and Henderson Street 

 

 

 

Hopefully we'll know more soon!

[Dylan]

As of yesterday's forum lunch, there seemed to be no progress on this hotel.

[Urbndwlr]

I have wondered about that also Rename, I love this area and see it continuing to grow and expand similar to the growth and what has happened in the Bishops Arts area in Dallas. Both have a ton of potential as very cool areas but can they support a Hotel? I think Marriott's new Moxy flag fits really well or Hilton has developed a new Flag Called Motto that could also work well. Both are heavily going after the younger market and it's all about play and fun. The Motto is setup for connecting rooms and having some with even bunk type Beds. I have spoke with several people about the areas and they still aren't convinced but the Magnolia area I feel is close enough to the Hospital district as well as a few other draws for businesses and I think even close enough to downtown to draw some from there when talking the younger crowd. As well, if you start looking for land today your about 2 years out from open and even more will be built up in that area, we just need someone with some vision! 

I think those are on the right track.  Hard to tell on Motto since seems they dont have any hotels open yet but their brand narrative appears on target.  Naturally a truly independent, unique hotel would be most appealing from a leisure traveler perspective (a hotel that cannot be found elsewhere) but if that doesn't exist, one of those would probably do.   I don't know what data the developers or hotel companies look for but I'm with you - Magnolia seems evolved enough to support a leisure hotel.  Seems often what people really want before they invest is to see someone else prove the concept so they can see the revpar rather than guess. 

[arch-image]

Your dead on. Motto announced their first US location, Atlanta 4th ward, this past week. I have a client is very interested in both the Motto and the Moxy, but you hit the nail on the head, he gets they fit very well in an urban inter-city settings but is concerned of the lack of financial information as it is kind of new ground for most cities outside of New York and LA. Personally I think Magnolia in FTW and Bishop Arts in Dallas are both prime for something like this as well as possibly around UTA and the colleges up in Denton. Then again, it aint my $$$ on the line! 

 

 

I think those are on the right track.  Hard to tell on Motto since seems they dont have any hotels open yet but their brand narrative appears on target.  Naturally a truly independent, unique hotel would be most appealing from a leisure traveler perspective (a hotel that cannot be found elsewhere) but if that doesn't exist, one of those would probably do.   I don't know what data the developers or hotel companies look for but I'm with you - Magnolia seems evolved enough to support a leisure hotel.  Seems often what people really want before they invest is to see someone else prove the concept so they can see the revpar rather than guess. 

 

[Austin55]

For what it's worth the Magolia Hotel, though not discussed, was still on the list of upcoming projects in the Southside Shindig. 

[rriojas71]

^^ LOL... Yeah that's not worth much unfortunately...  It was supposed to break ground in 2018 and it has been on their upcoming list for several years now.  I will believe it when it opens up.  

[renamerusk]

For what it's worth the Magolia Hotel, though not discussed, was still on the list of upcoming projects in the Southside Shindig. 

 

 

^^ LOL... Yeah that's not worth much unfortunately...  It was supposed to break ground in 2018 and it has been on their upcoming list for several years now.  I will believe it when it opens up.  

 

In my opinion, this potential hotel should be slotted in the hotel space at Museum Place.

 

The proposed Fort Worth Hotel 21c has seem to have evaporated.

[george84]

The notes in the upcoming development link Austin posted in another thread say that this hotel has shifted ideas a bit and will include extended stay suites and possibly residential units. I guess that is what has been the hold up. Hopefully it will resume soon. I also recently was thinking about 21c hotel, they said they would move quickly and possibly break ground within a couple of months, but nothing at all has happened.

[Doohickie]

For what it's worth the Magolia Hotel, though not discussed, was still on the list of upcoming projects in the Southside Shindig. 

Per fwtx.com,

 

32. Magnolia Hotel and Condos

Where: Magnolia Avenue and Henderson Street

What: A new approach is in the works for this planned hotel, which will include extended-stay suites and a parking garage.

[rriojas71]

 

For what it's worth the Magolia Hotel, though not discussed, was still on the list of upcoming projects in the Southside Shindig. 

Per fwtx.com,

 

32. Magnolia Hotel and Condos

Where: Magnolia Avenue and Henderson Street

What: A new approach is in the works for this planned hotel, which will include extended-stay suites and a parking garage.

 

In the Commercial Real Estate world "A New Approach" usually means that financing didn't come together.

[Jeriat]

Just walked by the site... reminded me of this page.

So what's up?

[rriojas71]

Being that we are nearing the end of 2020 and construction was supposed to start in 2018 I think it is safe to assume that this may be dead.

[John T Roberts]

Rriojas77, you are probably right.  However, another revised project may be built in its place.  If that does happen, the owners will have to go back before all of the commissions that approved the original project.

[Jeriat]

Weak

[JBB]

This one had all of the signs of being on shaky financial ground before the economy turned. What were you expecting?

[Austin55]

Covid has especially wrecked the hospitality industry. Weve lost the Omni expansion already, remains to be seen what else.

[arch-image]

I have had 3 killed, wont go forward at all even when things turn around, and 2 others put on hold from expected start last March, thought one was going to come off hold but relooked at $$ and still can't make it work in the current circumstances. Even if starting now puts you open around March 2022. Owners are seeing the need even then for another 1 to 1.5 million equity to assist meeting needs of debt service. Most in industry are saying except for very specific areas, coastal towns and big vacation spots most wont be back to crossing into the 65-75% Occupancy and stabilized rates until early to mid 2024. Most are running about 40% Occupancy with rates discounted down by almost half in the higher end and mid level hotels. The one bright spot is Lower tier properties, Motel 6, Best western types as the truckers and field workers and such are all still working. 

[rriojas71]

Sorry Arch-Image... I'm sure you are gutted by that.  I wish you the best with other projects moving forward

[John T Roberts]

I'm sorry to hear this news.

[arch-image]

Thanks Guys, that honestly means alot! we've all been thru economic ups n downs and we will make it thru this one. This one is definitely different though. In the past there were reasons that could be addressed  and you we just had to figure out the economic method to adjust and move on so to speak, with this were dealing with something that is much harder to quantify and develop a solution for. 

[Austin55]

During the Near Southside TIF meeting it was mentioned by Mike Brennan that this project was coming back together with a new team but that he though "all hospitality projects have been on pause for a while" and hopes it will come back together soon.

[Austin55]

I dont have any photos but there is a random concrete pad, maybe 8x8 that has been poured along the street with two posts in it. Looks like for a sign maybe? Anyone know?

Something to check out if you are in the area for forum lunch today.

[Jeriat]

I dont have any photos but there is a random concrete pad, maybe 8x8 that has been poured along the street with two posts in it. Looks like for a sign maybe? Anyone know?

Something to check out if you are in the area for forum lunch today.

I'll check it out when I get off work. 

[Austin55]

Here is a pic

[Stadtplan]

Austin55, did you happen to see any signs of electrical work, like a conduit sticking up or some nearby trenching in the soil with buried conduit to like a power pole across the parking lot?  I found this electrical permit from late last year for a "Powered Sculpture."  I think this is 1120 W. Magnolia, correct?  I could be off on my street address for this search.  Strange thing that they would have just a slab but I'm not seeing where the stub-up from underground conduit penetrates the slab so it could just come along the back side of it.  Nice that the guys who put up the little fence placed plastic coke bottles on the rebar so no one would accidentally impale themselves.  Those two posts look like they would hold a sign, but not seeing any recent sign permits either.

 

https://accela.fortw...ShowInspection=

 

Project Description:

EXTENDING POWER FROM EXISTING JUNCTION BOX ABOUT 10-15 FEET TO NEW POWERED SCULPTURE AT LOCATION. DIGGING TRENCH TO BURY CONDUIT WIRES.

 

Doing some quick searches for Magnolia Public Art, do you think it is part of this Clifton Crofford design?  I haven't kept very close tabs on this one so maybe it's done already?

 

Artist Clifton Crofford's Final Design for West Magnolia Avenue includes three sculptures composed of bronze and glass: an acorn, a pinecone, and a magnolia seed pod. The imagery of seeds symbolizes the potential of the community and its residents to work together for future generations. Possible sites for the sculptures include the intersections of S. Henderson Street, 5th Avenue, and/or Lake Street along the pedestrian-friendly Magnolia Avenue corridor, located in the Near Southside district.

 

http://fwpublicart.o...GyucCZz8hWrk0pk

 

https://z-p3-upload....166188784310632

 

Sinaca Studios is just down the street from here:

 

https://www.sinacastudios.org/

[Stadtplan]

or is it a bus stop?

[Austin55]

It's well into the private part of the property, so it seems odd that it would be some sort of publc use. The address of the art is the same as this though. 

[Austin55]

Just as an update to the mystery posts: its two handicapped parking spaces.

[Stadtplan]

A powered sculpture sounded far more exciting.

[arch-image]

Wonder if this might be brought back to life since things are getting back to normal. I always thought it was a cool project and have always felt a Boutique hotel in this area would do great although this was much more than a "boutique" type other than it's not really flagged. 

[Austin55]

Sounds like the property will be a parking lot. From the upcoming UDC agenda, 

 

 

2. UDC-22-081 – Transitional Parking Lot) Near Southside Form based District Council District: 9
Address: 1120 W Magnolia Ave
Owner/Agent: Randy Green/Parking Management Company

Request: The applicant requests a Certificate of Appropriateness for waivers from the Near Southside Development Standards and Guidelines for the following items:

a) Waiver from the requirement to provide roadside elements requirements (street trees, sidewalks, and pedestrian lights).

Waiver to allow surface parking lot frontage to exceed 40% of the development site’s total frontage length along a project’s primary streets.

c) Waiver to allow surface parking lot frontage to exceed 70% of the development site’s total frontage length along a project’s secondary streets.

d) Waiver from the requirement to screen parking lots fronting a public right of way.

e) Waiver from the 40% canopy coverage requirement for parking lots

[Jeriat]

 

Sounds like the property will be a parking lot. From the upcoming UDC agenda, 

 

 

2. UDC-22-081 – Transitional Parking Lot) Near Southside Form based District Council District: 9
Address: 1120 W Magnolia Ave
Owner/Agent: Randy Green/Parking Management Company

Request: The applicant requests a Certificate of Appropriateness for waivers from the Near Southside Development Standards and Guidelines for the following items:

a) Waiver from the requirement to provide roadside elements requirements (street trees, sidewalks, and pedestrian lights).

Waiver to allow surface parking lot frontage to exceed 40% of the development site’s total frontage length along a project’s primary streets.

c) Waiver to allow surface parking lot frontage to exceed 70% of the development site’s total frontage length along a project’s secondary streets.

d) Waiver from the requirement to screen parking lots fronting a public right of way.

e) Waiver from the 40% canopy coverage requirement for parking lots

 

 

I'm not even surprised anymore. 

[JBB]

That's a lot of variances that they won't hesitate for even a second to grant.

[mmmdan]

I will admit that I don't know the Near Southside development standards, but with all of the waivers they are asking for, and what they are for, it feels like there's nothing left.

[John T Roberts]

I have done projects in the Near Southside and I have read the development standards.  Without having to go back through and read it again, it appears they are planning to put in a temporary parking lot and because it will not be "permanent", they want to get several waivers to not make any costly improvements, other than the lot itself, and to pave as much of the site as possible.