1099 replies to this topic

[hannerhan]

You said "If Love Field were not restricted, what would stop all of the airlines from abandoning DFW Airport for Love Field?"

 

My response was a list of the reasons why this could never happen.

[johnfwd]

“…During the 1950s two attempts were made by Fort Worth to convert Carter Field into a joint regional airport with Dallas participating as a full partner. Both efforts were rebuffed by Dallas, and expansion of Love Field continued. In May 1960 the airport, renamed Greater Southwest International Airport, was purchased by the city of Fort Worth in an effort to compete more successfully with Love Field, and a municipal board was established to supervise the city's airports.

 

From 1959 to 1965 the percentage of enplaning passengers from Greater Southwest declined from 6 percent of Texas air traffic to less than 1 percent, while Love Field increased from 40.3 percent to 49.0 percent. The result was the virtual abandonment of Greater Southwest International Airport and serious congestion at Love Field. Though Dallas and Fort Worth were archrivals, the Federal Aviation Administration (formerly the CAA) refused to put any more money into duplicate installations. In 1964 the Civil Aeronautics Board ordered the two cities to come up in less than 180 days with a voluntary agreement on the location of a new regional airport, or the federal government would do it for them…”

 

 

http://www.tshaonlin.../articles/epd01

 

 

This excerpt from the above website of the Texas State Historical Association provides some historical background regarding the regional airport issue and some understanding of the rationale behind the now-defunct Wright Amendment.

[Dylan]

 

As early as 1940 a regional airport for the Dallas and Fort Worth area was being considered. The Civil Aeronautics Administration approached the city of Arlington to sponsor an airport midway between the two larger cities. Both Dallas and Fort Worth were interested, since expansion of Meacham Field and Love Field^qqv in Dallas would require extensive construction to accommodate increasing air traffic and larger aircraft. Arlington agreed, and with the support of American Airlines (see AMR CORPORATION) and Braniff Airways, which were to deed 1,000 acres of land, the CAA was to build the landing area; a seven-man board would control overall operation of the field. Construction began in 1942, but a disagreement over which way the terminal building should face, along with other considerations, caused the airport, then called Midway, to be turned over to the city of Arlington in 1943.

 

Fort Worth had its own commercial airport before Greater Southwest, and Fort Worth took over GSW (thus replacing Meacham) after Dallas refused to support it even though both cities were supposed to support it.

 

Then the FAA told both cities to build another regional airport because they didn't want to support two separate airports.

 

The result: One of the world's greatist airports to serve both cities. Dallas kept their airport while Fort Worth did as told.

[RD Milhollin]

S-T article reports air fares at DFW and DAL remained basically unchanged after end of Wright Amendment.

 

http://www.star-tele...le19832001.html

[JBB]

I've recently purchased airfare for a trip to NYC and I'm watching prices for a trip to Orlando. In both cases, AA came in slightly cheaper than Southwest, but the 2 free checked bags with Southwest made going with them a no-brainer (I'm not a checked bag fan, but both trips are at least 5 nights and one involves the kid. It's just not much of an option.) I know the distance to Love makes it a deal breaker for some, but it's only 10 minutes further from my front door than DFW.

[David Love]

It's 10 - 15 mins either place for me, depending on where I'm sleeping.

 

I wonder why more people have not discovered FED/EX - UPS on trips? I hate checking bags, unless it's international, if I can't carry it, I ship it, along with the boxes to send it back. Call the concierge / desk before you ship, it's waiting for you when you get there and drop a return box off when you leave.

[renamerusk]

I wonder why more people have not discovered FED/EX - UPS on trips?.....

 

 ... And I thought that I was the only one who had discovered this traveling tip...it has worked for me.

[renamerusk]

 

Lawsuit or not this will still be a WIN WIN for both SWA and the city of Dallas

 

.... SWA will relinquish gates, move more and more flights to Houston; and Love Field will be more and more a conduit to Hobby and SWA's international aspirations. Therefore SWA @ Love and Dallas will lose lose...Time will tell and Dallas' taxpayers are and will be on the line for this action.

 

Seems likes SWA is looking for love in new places; and should the City of Dallas keep an eye on the situation?  I could say more, but for now, I will simply say that these are interesting times for Dallas and Love Field. 

 

 

http://www.aviationp...home-in-houston

[renamerusk]

 

Lawsuit or not this will still be a WIN WIN for both SWA and the city of Dallas

 

.... SWA will relinquish gates, move more and more flights to Houston; and Love Field will be more and more a conduit to Hobby and SWA's international aspirations. Therefore SWA @ Love and Dallas will lose lose...Time will tell and Dallas' taxpayers are and will be on the line for this action.

 

Seems likes SWA is looking for love in new places. Should the City of Dallas be keeping an eye on the situation?

 

  I could say more, but for now, I will simply say that these are interesting times for Dallas and Love Field.

 

"Off to Court!"

 

http://skift.com/201...-at-love-field/

[John T Roberts]

The Fort Worth Star-Telegram has an editorial in today's paper about the Delta and Southwest gate issue.

 

http://www.star-tele...le25033024.html

[RD Milhollin]

I don't have the numbers but it seems from casual observation that Delta has been slowly increasing their presence at DFW over time. Maybe Southwest and Delta could agree that WN would reduce flights from DAL to ATL, SLC, and LAX and thus relieve the competitive pressure for DL to continue flights from Love and concentrate on increasing their reach and frequency from DFW. This might not be the best thing for competition and resulting lower fares in this area, well at least in the Dallas area, but it would be one way to resolve the current problem without increasing the number of gates at Love. The City of Dallas and Southwest would "love" to open more gates, but the current legal environment prohibits it. Doing so would undoubtedly not be the best thing for DFW Airport.

[renamerusk]

....Maybe Southwest and Delta could agree that WN would reduce flights from DAL to ATL, SLC, and LAX and thus relieve the competitive pressure for DL to continue flights from Love and concentrate on increasing their reach and frequency from DFW. This might not be the best thing for competition and resulting lower fares in this area, well at least in the Dallas area, but it would be one way to resolve the current problem without increasing the number of gates at Love.....

 

"Hello Wright Amendment"

 

Why in heaven should Delta agree to anything; DOT has ruled in their favor. Delta's should follow its own business/strategy.  As for the public, true competition only results when there are legitimate choices at Love Field among multiple carriers. 

 

Southwest maybe selling seats it does not have which has to be some kind of violation or it may be force to cancel their expansion plans.

 

The obvious resolution to this is for WN to shift those seats to DFW, but WN has vowed to the end that it will never go to DFW. WN could use the gates it shuttered at DFW when it absorbed Trans Air and the gates that Virgin abandoned for gates at Love; or face being sanctioned by the Federal Trade Commission; or WN can speed up its stealth relocation to Houston (corporation) that would be a significant blow to Dallas' image.

 

Now Dallas finds itself all alone and caught between a rock and a hard place because of its duplicitous ways in the past and is suing everyone with the exception of Fort Worth now that the chickens are coming home to roost.  Dallas would like to have the Feds bail itself out.... My, my! 

 

"Schadenfreude" (harm-joy)

[Electricron]

WM can open gates at DFW, but every gate they open at DFW means losing 8 gates at Love Field per the recent 5 party pact that's now Federal law.

Here's the math:

WN leases 18 gates at Love Field today. Total gates in market = 18

If WN leases one gate at DFW, it loses 8 gates at Love. Total gates in market = 11

If WN leases two gates at DFW, it loses 16 gates at Love. Total gates in market = 4

If WN leases 3 gates at DFW, it loses up to 24 gates at Love. Total gates in market = 3

If you don't see the ever diminishing returns,  you are as blind as a bat.

 

Dallas needs to either have the law declared unconstitutional, or the regulators (FAA) declared breaking the law.  While it is true the FAA (DOT) wishes to have free access to commercial airports, the DOJ is supporting the existing federal law as written by Congress. 

 

Dallas  can't possibly satisfy everyone. 

 

A compromise the judge might order is to eliminate the 8 Love gates loss per DFW gates open for WN - I just don't see how the judge can get there with the existing laws on the books.

[renamerusk]

If you don't see the ever diminishing returns,  you are as blind as a bat.

 

Dallas needs to either have the law declared unconstitutional, or the regulators (FAA) declared breaking the law.  While it is true the FAA (DOT) wishes to have free access to commercial airports, the DOJ is supporting the existing federal law as written by Congress. 

 

Dallas  can't possibly satisfy everyone. 

 

"Yes, one in the same, BTCRB - the Blind Texas Central Railways Bat".

 

Dallas needs for everyone to see it their way and to be nice to it; and well just because; and the solution for WN is DFW who continues to be ready to welcome WN.

 

“Oh, what a tangled web we weave...when first we practice to deceive.”
--- Sir Walter Scott (1771-1832)

 

[RD Milhollin]

HA! And you thought this thread had ended...

 

http://www.star-tele...le53780900.html

 

Judge Linkeade is trying to reset the years of struggle and controversy surrounding the DFW / DAL relationship. All the issues of original intent, contractual obligations, and flight safety are apparently going to have to be rehashed in this guy's court unless appealed.

[JBB]

I sympathize with both sides on this. Dallas and Southwest have fought tooth and nail to undermine the agreement that was pretty hard fought. At the same time, with all of the talk of growth and expansion at DFW, if they can't hold up against competition from regional airports, that talk is a lot of smoke and mirrors.

[mmmdan]

It really makes one wonder what the 4th busiest airport in the nation is so worried about considered Love Field is ranked 40th.  It's not like Love can really grow that big based on its location.  https://en.wikipedia...e_United_States

 

Maybe AA just doesn't want really want the competition http://fivethirtyeig...air-fares/?_r=0

 

[renamerusk]

It really makes one wonder what the 4th busiest airport in the nation is so worried about considered Love Field is ranked 40th.  It's not like Love can really grow that big based on its location......Maybe AA just doesn't want really want the competition

 

 True competition would be if all the airlines used the same airport; then one would not need to wonder.

[Dylan]

If Love Field isn't restricted, there's nothing to stop every airline from abandoning DFW if they wanted to, and it seems like most airlines (except American) would rather fly from Love Field for whatever reason.

[JBB]

Love has no room to grow. That's a pretty big deterrent.

[JBB]

it seems like most airlines (except American) would rather fly from Love Field for whatever reason.

Facts:

3 airlines fly at Love Field. 4 if you differentiate between Delta and Delta Connection and DC doesn't fly out of Love year round. Virgin and Southwest fly exclusively out of Love in this area.

29 airlines currently fly at DFW, 27 of which exclusively fly out of DFW in this area.

You need some more schooling to clarify the meaning of the word "most".

[Dylan]

Please re-read my previous statement, as you apparently did not interpret it correctly:

 

"...it seems like most airlines (except American) would rather fly from Love Field for whatever reason."

 

That is very different from saying most airlines actually fly from Love Field, in which case I would be wrong. But that's not what I said.

 

International flights are thankfully banned from Love Field, so that prevents many airlines from flying out of Love Field.

 

In addition, gate restrictions prevent almost every other airline from flying out of Love Field.

[Dylan]

Love has no room to grow. That's a pretty big deterrent.

 

Love Field used to have many more gates than it currently does, and has plenty of room to grow if the current gate limit were lifted.

 

http://historicaeria...6.8486452102661

[JBB]

I read your post just fine and your interpretation doesn't help your case. Who are these mystery guest airlines that prefer flying out of Love?

The gate restrictions won't be lifted. Rename will get his fantasy airport at Carswell before the people in the Park Cities let Love expand. They're already irked at the increased traffic in the last year.

[renamerusk]

 

it seems like most airlines (except American) would rather fly from Love Field for whatever reason.

Facts:

3 airlines fly at Love Field. 4 if you differentiate between Delta and Delta Connection and DC doesn't fly out of Love year round. Virgin and Southwest fly exclusively out of Love in this area.

29 airlines currently fly at DFW, 27 of which exclusively fly out of DFW in this area.

You need some more schooling to clarify the meaning of the word "most".

 

 

Well, if we are going to deal in facts; lets add a few more facts to the debate -

 

Current share -

DFW Gates: 165     AA Gates:    98       Share: 59.3%

Love Gates: 20       SWA Gates: 18       Share: 90.0%

 

It has been suggested over and over again that AA does not want competition; while at the same time ignoring what a sweet and noncompetitive deal that SWA currently has at Love.  Now, SWA wants the two remaining gates for a total of 20 gates or 100% share.  Imagine what would be said of AA if it wanted the sixty-seven remaining gates at DFW.  By the way, those 67 gates could be SWA for the asking.

 

For SWA:Love to be in parity with AA:DFW,  SWA would control only 12 gates.

 

It is baffling to me that there are people who live in Tarrant County that are quick to bash AA and praise SWA for the sake of relatively cheaper fares; but is it really cheaper?  Cheaper only if one excuses the fact that SWA does practically nothing to boost the Tarrant County economy; and the vast majority of people in Tarrant County face the added financial burden and time expended of commuting to and from Love Field.

 

And yes, airlines would flock to Love because of its perceived proximity to high end passengers, although, SWA, for all practicality, started out as a "flying bus". 

 

So why not have more "flying buses" at Love; but of course, SWA does not want that; and that fact is why the City of Dallas is and will always be split trying to do the right thing for the public or doing the biddings of an ever more self serving SWA that will eventually cause SWA and Dallas to part ways - SWA to Houston and could allow Love to become, due to the Courts and real competition, a more open airport.

[Electricron]

Well, if we are going to deal in facts; lets add a few more facts to the debate -

 

Current share -

DFW Gates: 165     AA Gates:    98       Share: 59.3%

Love Gates: 20       SWA Gates: 18       Share: 90.0%

Current share for the entire North Texas Metro area:

Total Passenger Gates = 185

AA Gates = 98 (53%)

SWA Gates = 18 (10%) 

[renamerusk]

Current share for the entire North Texas Metro area:

 

Total Passenger Gates = 185

AA Gates = 98 (53%)

SWA Gates = 18 (10%)

 

Who but SWA and apparently you believe that Love Field is an extension of DFW Airport.  What are you calling it...Terminal L?  SWA tried that line and it was sternly rejected by the City of Fort Worth, American Airlines, Delta Airlines and DFW Airport.

 

When has SWA marketed to the entire North Texas Metro as I have been missing the part of their marketing campaign that even mentioned Fort Worth or North Texas.

 

And now, no less an authority than the Dallas Morning News is weighing on the Love Field debacle, 1/12/16

 

http://aviationblog....own-words.html/

 

By the way, it is becoming more of a possibility that Dallas will someday have to choose between all out supporting Texas Central Railways HSR or keeping Southwest Airlines.   As CEO Kelly (SWA) says "I have Dallas fatigue".  What a contrast to the how American Airlines feels about the City of Fort Worth.

 

What a web one weaves when one chooses to deceive.

[youngalum]

Judge Kinkeade taught me Legal Ethics in law school 20 years ago.  The stories he would tell makes you appreciate the course  He really is a smart and thoughtful person.  He is wrong on the lawsuit in this case, but still a good judge and person.

[renamerusk]

Judge Kinkeade [He] is wrong on the lawsuit in this case, but still a good judge and person.

 

 How is he wrong?; please elaborate.

[youngalum]

That Love field should open more gates and the Wright 5 party agreement should be voided.

[renamerusk]

Not sure how the preceding post is applicable to the Wright Amendment.

 

[preceding post moved]

[renamerusk]

Judge Kinkeade taught me Legal Ethics in law school 20 years ago.  The stories he would tell makes you appreciate the course  He really is a smart and thoughtful person.  He is wrong on the lawsuit in this case, but still a good judge and person.

 

 

That Love field should open more gates and the Wright 5 party agreement should be voided.

 

Youngalum, one is not being snide when one asks for an elaboration on the remarks that are posted in this Forum.

#1. - Thousands of hours of legal work and legislation went into the compromise that eventually became law, The Wright Amendment.  While you are entitle to your opinion,  it is apparent that Judge Kinkeade, instead of taking an activist judicial role, made his ruling to enforce the law based upon the agreements signed to by the litigants. He, therefore, is not wrong; and you may need to retreat.

Again, what legal brief or explanation do you have to put on the table that supports a ruling different from the one issued by Kinkeade; particularly after having publicly calling him out...elaborate!

#2. - This forum is one of the best places to engage in debate, or you have described, to be in argument. I do love a spirited debate; but dislike rumor trafficking or careless comments given solely to suggest that one is an "insider" or to have a shock affect. I find the Forum to be an excellent vehicle to learn and gain

 

The dual statement that “Love Field should open more gates; and the Wright 5 party agreement should be voided”. is neither convincing or believable for many reasons and that exhaustive time has been expended to delineate.  However, a statement like the one in quotation illustrates that one has both an unsophisticated understanding of the subject matter and that one has a legalistic shortcoming when it comes to complicated issues as this one is.  Sometimes an issue is rocket science and maybe it is better to be more considered before weighing in so boisterously.
 

[youngalum]

Good lord renamerusk, I can tell you didn't actually read the opinion.  He is telling the parties to file additional litigation to change the agreements since Congress will not do it.  Federal judges do not publically show their beliefs like he does unless he anticipates more litigation that wants to attack the current agreement. He is providing an opening if any of the litigants desire to void the current agreement.  Either you understand litigation or you do not, but don't pretend you are a legal scholar.

 

I am sorry you feel I bring "rumors" to the board about AA and the like.  I do have connections there regardless of what some ill-informed person like yourself does not have at their disposable.  I personally know the AA management team and leave it at that. 

 

Finally, I did not call out the Judge, except to say his comments about his personal beliefs that the issue should be revisited is wrong.  Period end of story.

 

You see, I am on your side sir on this issue.  But go ahead and call me unsophisticated for large complex legal matters as you know nothing about me except you dislike me. 

[mmmdan]

I've been doing some internet research on all the airports in the area and I think it would be interesting to see what would happen if the gate restrictions were lifted on Love Field.

 

Some history as I understand it:

The FAA was sick of supporting 2 airfields in such close proximity and made the cities agree to share 1 major airport.  While Greater Southwest Airport was already centrally located and could have been used by both cities, the airport was completely in Tarrant Country and the terminal was closer to Fort Worth than Dallas, therefore it was unacceptable and a new airport had to built that was more centrally located.  And that's how we ended up with DFW.

 

All of the airlines operating out of Love and GSW at the time agreed to cease operations and move them to DFW.  Everything was hunky-dory until Southwest Airlines came along and was not part of the agreement because it didn't exist at the time the agreement was made.  Because of the agreement to shut down the airports, Southwest was originally only allowed to fly within the state of TX because the Civil Aeronautics Board could not restrict travel within a state.  It is important to note that due to the nature of Southwest's flights at the time, Southwest thought they wouldn't be able to survive if they had to move to DFW which was further away from their customers.

 

Deregulation of the airlines then came in 1978 which allowed Southwest to set it sights on expansion and the ability to provide flights outside of the state.

 

Another important note is that at the time DFW opened, Love Field was significantly larger than GSW.  It appears that GSW topped out at 17 gates compared to Love Field's 70.  Not wanting to risk the big investment that was just made in a new airport, the DFW Airport board, Fort Worth, and some airlines were able to get the Wright Amendment passed which restricted how much Southwest and Love Field could ultimately grow.

 

Fast forward 40 years and we are now at the point that DFW is one of the largest and busiest airports in the country.  While a larger share of the population is still on the Dallas side of the DFW metroplex, it is not as close to Love Field as it was in the '70s.

 

For the hypothetical person that lives in Plano and wants to fly somewhere, DFW airport is 27 mi. away and it will take them a half hour to get there.  Love Field is only 20 mi. away, but it will also take them about a half hour to get there.  For someone that lives in McKinney it would take them 40 min. to get to DFW compared to 45 min. to Love Field.

 

For anyone living west of DFW, it is obviously the closer choice.

 

This is why I think it would be interesting to let go of the reigns on Love Field and make all the airlines compete on destination and price.  I don't think DFW has to worry about it's survival as much as it used to because the difference in time and distance to get to Love is not significant for the vast majority of the population.

 

I really don't think that Love Field could grow so big that it would topple DFW.  At most, I think it would provide some healthy competition which would force AA to have to compete on price as I mentioned in my previous post http://fivethirtyeig...air-fares/?_r=1.

 

It would also be interesting to see how the FAA would react to the increased operations at Love Field.  Although, the 3 airports that serve NYC are for all practical purposes as close together as DFW and Love Field are.  It wouldn't surprise me if the FAA was fed up back in the day because the traffic at GSW paled in comparison to that at Love.

[renamerusk]

...(1)  it would be interesting to see what would happen if the gate restrictions were lifted on Love Field......(2) It is important to note that due to the nature of Southwest's flights at the time, Southwest thought they wouldn't be able to survive if they had to move to DFW which was further away from their customers......(3)  For anyone living west of DFW, it is obviously the closer choice......(4)  I think it would be interesting to let go of the reigns on Love Field and make all the airlines compete on destination and price....(5)I think it would provide some healthy competition which would force AA to have to compete on price.

 

#1 - There are unrestricted gates available tor Southwest at DFW

 

#2 -  Note, the nature of Southwest's flights have changed.

 

#3 -  For the 4 County Region as a whole, DFW is obviously the closer choice.

 

#4 - Yes. Destination, price and the use of the same Playing Field.

 

#5 -  DFW would force the healthy competition that you are suggesting.

[elpingüino]

Surprised that the big story on the cover of Wednesday's Star-Telegram hasn't been posted yet.

North Texas airfares down dramatically since Wright Amendment ended

 

 

The cost of flying out of North Texas has come down dramatically since the Wright Amendment restrictions were eliminated in late 2014. According to government data released this month, average fares at Love Field dropped 6.5 percent in the second quarter of 2015, as Southwest Airlines added nonstop routes and flights. To compete, American Airlines and other carriers lowered their prices at DFW Airport, driving average airfares down at the region’s major airport by 6 percent during the period.

 

The article also discusses other factors in the low fares, including lower fuel costs.

[mmmdan]

 

#2 -  Note, the nature of Southwest's flights have changed.

 

 

 

For #2, there's no doubt that it changed, I was just pointing out the reason why Southwest wanted to stay at Love Field to begin with and fought to keep passenger service there.

 

elpinguino: I do get the paper, but I don't read it until the evening.  I was pleasantly surprised to see that article.  It will be interesting to see how much cheaper my flights will be to visit my family over the holidays compared to a couple of years ago.

[renamerusk]

 It will be interesting to see how much cheaper my flights will be to visit my family over the holidays compared to a couple of years ago.

 

The impact of the Wright Amendment is less likely the sole cause of cheaper fares as some economists now attribute today's cheaper fares to the lower price of jet fuel; as you have no doubt probably noticed today's cheaper prices of gasoline.  In any event, cheaper fares could be realized just as easily if all carriers were using DFW.  After all Southwest, Delta and American each fly out of LGA.

[David Love]

Oddly, the only time I've flown out of Love Field, on SouthWest, was FOR American Airlines. ...sure was an eye opener.

 

Have not used them since, but I drop a number of friends off and pick them up, from time to time. No other way to put it, but it's a mad house over there, I have no idea how they could add any more flights unless they built a hub and spoke terminal system, reminds me of driving scenes in India, lane lines are a just a suggestion.

[RD Milhollin]

 

Love Field will be the next Newark or Midway airport if they can fix the parking situation.

 

I'm a little confused on what you mean by putting EWR and MDW in the same comparison category, unless it is as number 2 airport in each respective metro area or that both airports are dominated by Southwest. DAL is already number 2 in the Dallas-Fort Worth area...

 

MDW is a much better comparison to DAL in size, passenger count, and number of airlines. EWR is a massive airport, easily twice the physical size and passenger activity as either of DAL or MDW, with numerous international/transatlantic flights. DAL is limited not only by size but be number of gates allowed.

 

I flew in and out of Love Field last month and saw no problem with the parking situation; I took the TRE and transferred to DART train and bus... worked like a champ. Didn't Dallas just finish a parking revamp recently? If yes, did it not fix the perceived problem?

[JBB]

I haven't heard much about Love parking being an issue outside of the holiday travel times. I've been dropped off when I've flown out of there recently. If it isn't a problem outside of the holidays, I'm not sure there's really much of an issue. Every airport runs thin on parking during those times. You can't always build the church for Easter Sunday.

[renamerusk]

I'm a little confused on what you mean by putting EWR and MDW in the same comparison category, unless it is as number 2 airport in each respective metro area or that both airports are dominated by Southwest. DAL is already number 2 in the Dallas-Fort Worth area...

 

I'm a little confused too.

 

I refuse to be brainwashed by Southwest's "airport voodoo" of totaling gates at DFW and DAL as though ithe two facilities are "single" airport.

 

How does DAL = metro?  Dallas has two airports: DALand DFW, reversible 1 or 2 depending how Dallas view them at its convenience.

 

Fort Worth nor any other cities (Corsicana, Greenville) in proximity to Dallas has anything to say about it. Choosing to fly in or out of DAL is a choice made by a consumer and not a choice provided to the consumer by the City of Fort Worth. Fort Worth has only one airport: DFW.

 

Metro is a trojan horse term used to gain the upper hand by the top and most power entity; as San Antonio will quickly discover if it ever 'metro-s" with Austin.

[Electricron]

I refuse to be brainwashed by Southwest's "airport voodoo" of totaling gates at DFW and DAL as though ithe two facilities are "single" airport.

 

How does DAL = metro?  Dallas has two airports: DALand DFW, reversible 1 or 2 depending how Dallas view them at its convenience.

 

Fort Worth nor any other cities (Corsicana, Greenville) in proximity to Dallas has anything to say about it. Choosing to fly in or out of DAL is a choice made by a consumer and not a choice provided to the consumer by the City of Fort Worth. Fort Worth has only one airport: DFW.

It is a choice, and most cities don't spend the money to offer two commercial passenger airports. 

But the idea that DAL doesn't service the DFW metro area is wrong. There are plenty of natives from Fort Worth flying in and out of DAL on Southwest Airlines. 

Just like there are plenty of cruise passengers flying into Bush International instead of Hobby to meet their cruise ship in Galveston. Passengers seem to pick the cheapest airline company, the airline flight with the best connections, or the airline company they have the most frequent flyer credits on. 

[RD Milhollin]

The editorial board of the Star-Telegram recommends Southwest Airlines (WN) begin flying from DFW after 2025 when restrictions at Love Field (DAL) are lifted. The Fort Worth paper doesn't even mention the possibility of WN flying from Fort Worth Meacham Field.

 

https://www.aol.com/...-185405350.html

 

I wonder if the Fort Worth Chamber of Commerce has any figures to indicate which destination airports Fort Worth travelers fly to currently from DFW and DAL. Just shooting wildly from the hip, I would think that a few flights to Denver (DEN), Phoenix (PHX), Houston Hobby (HOU), Atlanta (ATL), Chicago Midway (MDW), and Las Vegas (LAS). Actually not shooting so wildly, these are the top 6 destinations for WN from DAL according to Wikipedia...

 

If WN started sniffing around Fort Worth the city would need to be ready to commit to build a real terminal facility there.

[elpingüino]

More about that possibility:
Southwest Airlines CEO: Expanding to DFW Airport could be a way to grow

[JBB]

If WN started sniffing around Fort Worth the city would need to be ready to commit to build a real terminal facility there.

 

There's been zero indication that FW is ready to start building the infrastructure necessary to bring commercial passenger service to Meacham.  Mayor Price completely blew off the idea shortly before leaving office.

[Jeriat]

 

If WN started sniffing around Fort Worth the city would need to be ready to commit to build a real terminal facility there.

 

There's been zero indication that FW is ready to start building the infrastructure necessary to bring commercial passenger service to Meacham.  Mayor Price completely blew off the idea shortly before leaving office.

 

The more I look at it, the more I think there's no real room to do it, anyway... unless CEMEX and a couple other industrial areas in that spot decide to pack up and move, and I highly doubt that happens.

[JBB]

The decision makers and the people supporting the decision makers in the city have no desire to make this happen.  The space can be found if they change their mind.

 

COVID played a role in the delay in moving forward with terminal F at DFW, but I can't help but wonder if the possibility of Southwest being available to move in might be a partial motivation.  Just total speculation on my part.  I've always heard that Southwest has no interest in dealing with the traffic at DFW with the caveat that there's no room for expansion at Love.  No other airport in the area has the infrastructure in place to accommodate Southwest moving in, so if there's any desire to make that happen in 2025, the work needs to start now.

[Austin55]

Since SW is handling a lot of origin/destination traffic and few transfers through other airlines, would they even need a new terminal in line with all the others? Maybe they could build a whole new terminal out by 35R/17L (the one North/South runway on it's own on the East side of DFW). Then they could still have all the advantages of short taxi times to that runway and the connivence of their own space. The terminal could be similar to the Evans/North terminal at Detroit or the South "Terminal" at Austin. 

[Crestline]

The more I look at it, the more I think there's no real room to do it, anyway... unless CEMEX and a couple other industrial areas in that spot decide to pack up and move, and I highly doubt that happens.

 

Yup; cross-quoting the relevant map from the Meacham thread:

 

Here's Love superimposed on Meacham using Mapfrappe. Wonder if Meacham can support Love-style service given the size disparity?