29 replies to this topic

[jefffwd]

Would you be for or against casino gambling in Texas? Here is one paragraph from the article and the link to the rest of the story... Why does FW get only one casino and Dallas two? Austin doesn't get any? Neither does Lubbock, Amarillo, Abilene, Midland/Odessa or Corpus. I am all for it and if you don't want to gamble don't - if people want to throw away their money that is their business... I don't want a casino in Sundance Square but I think one (or more) would do well in the Stockyards.

The study was based on the assumption of one destination casino in Fort Worth, two in Dallas, two in Houston, and one apiece in San Antonio, Galveston and South Padre Island.

Read more: http://www.star-tele...l#ixzz1I19CVkrp

[Big Frog II]

Yes, I would vote to allow casinos in Texas. The people now drive just an hour north and deposit our tax money in the State of Oklahoma. As for 1 casino in Ft Worth and 2 in Dallas, I think when you allow casinos eventually they will be built wherever a developer can afford to put one.

At least allow the citizens to vote yes or no.

[David Love]

You can buy lottery tickets, is that because it resembles the benign game of bingo but for ADD folks that can't wait to put their marks down before they call the numbers out, that and really big payouts. I'm all for letting people do what they wish as long as they don't bother anyone else in the process.

If it keeps money that would normally go outside the state, then what's the hold up? I'm wondering who benefits by not having gambling in the state.

What it comes down to is: Would casinos be good for Texas and Texans?

[Roger_H]

Let's see. The Texas Lottery was supposed to fund education. How's that working out? The lottery has turned out to be just what opponents said it would be: an incredibly inefficient way to tax the poor and ignorant.

The horse race tracks were supposed to keep much needed jobs in the state. Yet very little racing goes on at the tracks. Mostly people bet on races on TV, so the main jobs they have created are for waitstaff. Nothing against waiters, but they aren't exactly top-paying jobs. Despite this, I don't believe there's a single track that hasn't declared bankruptcy or been sold to avoid bankruptcy. Horse racing was also supposed to bring more tourism to the state. I guess when I drive through Grand Prairie on I-30 I'm going so fast I miss all the mega-hotels that have sprung up next to Lone Star Park.

Now they are aiming for the trifecta with casino gambling? The State is proposing to grant the casinos monopolies in order to make it. That should tell you something. In the words of those noted economists The Who, "...pray we don't get fooled again."

[Brian Luenser]

I don't disagree on most of Roger's points, though I do have a different perspective on some of it.

Tax on the poor and the ignorant. Surely can't disagree on that one. But I am OK with that. I believe in everybody paying tax. Including the poor and the ignorant. When I am at 7-11 and see some slobs buying lottery tickets, I am glad to see them pay at least a tiny share of their fair share of the states needs. I usually figure the money they are blowing on lottery tickets reduce the total number of ounces in their total beer purchase. (Less 32 Oz. Bud bottles on my sidewalk.) I would like to think the money this guy is spending on lottery tickets would be paying for his daughters school lunches but it probably would not. I am paying for his daughters lunches, and medical care etc,. either way, likely. All part of that ignorant equation.

The money going to State Education? 13 billion bucks. Net. So as strapped as the education fund is now, figure it with 13 billion in additional debt. Personally, it matters not where the money goes. The general fund is the same as the education fund as the money. I am paying the shortfall on either. It is like saying, I am going to bring in some extra money by mowing lawns for people on Saturdays and use that money only to pay for new tires on the left sides of my cars. If I have to buy tires for my right side, what's the difference.

I don't believe in horse racing. Keep animals out of our stupid games. Abuse in every case. Taking advantage of animals is the lowest form of pathetic. I agree completely that horse racing brings nothing good to an area. All crap. An increase in worker illegal aliens and beer bottles might be the major effects. Maybe air pollution from all the junk cars going back and forth to it and horse manure.

Casino gambling. I am somewhat mixed on. Another tax for the ignorant but again that's great. I really do hate to see bus after bus heading to Las Vegas or some pathetic Indian reservation with Texas Dollars. I don't know if there is a great way to count those people but I think there have been license plate studies done at Oklahoma casinos that show that all of the plates in the lots have the word TEXAS on top of them. The Casinos themselves bring nothing good to an area. At least to a nice area. I have a friend from Mississippi that had her beautiful town on the river completely ruined by casinos. Like, only the construction phase, did anything positive for the community. Now that they are built it is only a magnet for other states icky people. They tore down historic houses and completely removed more than a century of charm building casinos that were not nearly as grand as the initial conceptions. Many are actually tin buildings.

And sure enough, you now have people that are gambling addicts (Read, those looking out the window in Statistics class) that have a bunch of kids back at the house that have to put up with Dad in a bad mood today because he wasn't lucky last night. Poor kids. You can't pick your parents. (usually)


Gambling sux in general. But we are in an economic crisis and I hate to see people driving back and forth to Oklahoma. Or Louisiana or wherever.

[David Love]

We can't effectively utilize the money collected for school taxes now, Texas has proven that more money spent in the education arena does not equate to better academic performance, maybe better standings in sports.

I think it comes down to whether or not you'd welcome a casino near your neighborhood. So I ask myself what would Sundance Square be like if we had a nice big casino. If you're not comfortable with a casino near your home, then why would they be welcome near anyone's.

[johnfwd]

I favor casino gambling and want Fort Worth to be part of it. After all, Fort Worth’s cowboy culture, replete with gamblers, drovers, saloon keepers, and dance hall girls, predated Las Vegas by forty or fifty years! Seriously, casinos can be tourist attractions, spurring honest urban development, and need not be magnets for crime and immorality.

[cberen1]

I agree with JohnFWD on this. Look at the casino in New Orleans. It isn't a blight on the city. In fact, it's pretty understated by casino standards. It adds to their tourism and convention trade.

Imagine a Western themed Casino in the Stockyards with a trolley line from downtown to the Stockyards. If done well it could really be an addition to the overall tourism/convention goals of the city.

Plus, I'm all for giving the people every opportunity to pay voluntary taxes. I don't get a lot of support for this position, but my share of the tax burden vs. my share of the public services I pay for is way out of whack. I'd like to even it up as much as possible, and since I don't see a tax break in future, let everyone else pay more voluntarily if they want to.

Also, I know a ton of upper middle class people in FW who drive up to OK for the big Texas Hold'em tournaments. It's probably incorrect to characterize the gambling population as being made up entirely of wife-beating alcohalic wellfare recipients.

[cjyoung]

I don't gamble, but everyone that I know that drives to Winstar or Bossier City/Shreveport is neither poor or ignorant. It's what the people want just like the stupid reality shows, social networking and "energy" drinks.

[Roger_H]

If there exist in this country an Indian reservation without a big casino, I've yet to encounter it. Yet despite the prevalence of these supposed money machines, the standard of living for the vast majority of Native Americans living on reservations would barely even meet third-world status.

Economic development and tourism? The last time I drove past the Winstar Casino, which claims to be the third largest in the world, the only new development I saw was a little Holiday Inn Express. Well, not exactly true. Besides the motel, a brand new pawn shop had opened up. How convenient. Nothing against cheap motels or pawn shops, but they hardly seem like two industries I want to hitch our state's future prosperity to.

If casinos will be the economic boon that supporters claim, why just 8? Why not build 80? The fact that they want the state to grant monopolies to the casinos is an admission that these ventures will be built on shaky financial ground.

[ron4Life]

Economic development and tourism? The last time I drove past the Winstar Casino, which claims to be the third largest in the world, the only new development I saw was a little Holiday Inn Express. Well, not exactly true. Besides the motel, a brand new pawn shop had opened up. How convenient. Nothing against cheap motels or pawn shops, but they hardly seem like two industries I want to hitch our state's future prosperity to.

Bahahahaha.. wow

[cberen1]

If there exist in this country an Indian reservation without a big casino, I've yet to encounter it. Yet despite the prevalence of these supposed money machines, the standard of living for the vast majority of Native Americans living on reservations would barely even meet third-world status.

Economic development and tourism? The last time I drove past the Winstar Casino, which claims to be the third largest in the world, the only new development I saw was a little Holiday Inn Express. Well, not exactly true. Besides the motel, a brand new pawn shop had opened up. How convenient. Nothing against cheap motels or pawn shops, but they hardly seem like two industries I want to hitch our state's future prosperity to.

If casinos will be the economic boon that supporters claim, why just 8? Why not build 80? The fact that they want the state to grant monopolies to the casinos is an admission that these ventures will be built on shaky financial ground.

Where to start?

First, I don't think a casino yet to be built in FW should be compared to one already built on the plot of land closest to the Texas / Oklahoma border the Indians had. Different market, financing, objectives, etc. My guess is that it will more closely resemble a facility like Lonestar Park. Whatever their financial condition, I think the facility is nice enough and well maintained.

Next, Fort Worth has already hitched its wagon to cheap hotels and pawn shops. Have you seen the stellar hotels around Six Flags, Hurricane Harbor, the Ballpark and Jerryworld? These are our county's destinations. And you may not know it, but Fort Worth is ground zero for sub-prime lending (pawn shops, payday, title loans, auto, etc.). There are multiple national companies that do high-risk lending that are based in Fort Worth. Congratulations, you're already in the business.

I don't think the monopolies in any way suggest shaky financial ground. You say why not 80. Well, why not build 800? Why not allow it to be completely unregulated? Why not? Because no one wants a ton of little crappy casinos everywhere. I think the point is that if you allow investors to build these things, you want them to build nice ones. They're taking on all the financial risk, they just want some guarantees that the market isn't going to be immediately saturated. At least they aren't looking for tax breaks like you might grant to, say, a convention hotel.

If you have moral qualms with gambling, so be it. I can't argue with that. But if you think vice isn't a viable financial model, you're kidding yourself.

[tjh1]

While I have no objections to gambling from a moral standpoint...I do not support casino gambling in Texas. Yes...there are Texans that drive to Louisiana and Oklahoma on occasion to gamble and that is Texans money that could stay in Texas. However, bringing casinos into Texas only makes them more accessible to more people--which makes it almost certain that more Texans can lose more of their money. This can be explained by opportunity cost--money lost to slot machines is money that cannot be used to make mortgage payments, start a business, invest in financial securities, etc, etc, etc. Gambling does not create new money. Additionally, gambling is highly addictive and can take a tremendous toll on society. The states with the lowest rates of problem gambling are Utah & Hawaii, which ironically happen to be the only states with no forms of legalized gambling (lottery, slots, table games, etc). I totally agree that Texans deserve the opportunity to vote on the issue and respect everyone's opinions, but I hope that people will consider both the pro's and con's and do not solely support casinos because they believe it will bring a little bit of the Las Vegas atmosphere to the Lone Star state. Las Vegas may be glamorized by the media, but the city is an economic disaster on wheels.

[RD Milhollin]

Put it at the south end of downtown near the convention center right on one of those huge parking lots. A bridge or tunnel to the Convention Hall would help to make it accessible to visitors and help book the facility to groups other than the Baptists Conventions. An integrated parking facility would be a plus, maybe put RV camping on the roof.

I don't gamble, I don't even watch it on TV. But I hate seeing all this Texas money heading north and east out of the state. Tax and regulate the heck out of it, and add a dress code to boot. The building should be sort of an urban resort with nice hotel, some deluxe suites, a superior restaurant, a club on top the tower, and transportation to the other hotels downtown. I know some people advocate for putting a casino in the Stockyards, but I would keep that set aside for card games in keeping with the image of "Cowtown", even though I know most of that really happened downtown, back in the day.

[David Love]

Since pawn shops and the like tend to be close partners HWY 10 in Euless looks like best place in the Metroplex.

[johnfwd]

Found this AP story in the latest Fort Worth Business Press.  This may actually go to a voter referendum.  In which case, if approved, this will be a city issue.

 

http://fwbusinesspre...-in-Texas-.aspx

[RD Milhollin]

Downtown adjacent to the Convention Center on the sea of semi-paved parking with a tunnel into the exhibits area and an observation deck with bar on top of new hotel rooms. 

[Dylan]

Hard to say. Like most people, I don't like seeing all of our money go to Oklahoma. But I don't want to see cheap casinos accompanied by cheap motels and pawn shops pop up everywhere or the crime that accompanies them. Where casinos go would need to be regulated, but who's to determine where casinos should go and what cities should get them? I can imagine some cities wanting a casino and then not being happy because they're not allowed to have one.

 

If casinos are ever allowed in Texas, I think Lancaster Avenue would make for a cool gambling strip.

[johnfwd]

This updated AP article in the Fort Worth Business Press is more detailed about proposed casino sites.  An excerpted quote:  “One casino each in Dallas, Fort Worth, and San Antonio with three additional casinos along the coast.”  Total 21 casinos envisioned.  Evidently, the Fort Worth Chamber of Commerce is rethinking its “neutral” position on casino gambling in our city.

 

http://fwbusinesspre...s-new-life.aspx

[cberen1]

I think the most logical places would be (in order of my preference):

 

1. The old packing plants in the stockyards.

2. The area just East of the ITC

3. TRV

4. Across Henderson from the Radio Shack/TCC campus

 

It seems like the stockyards would give it highway access and rail access, plenty of space and put it in a tourist area.

[johnfwd]

Most of us were probably unaware (or didn't care) that the Fort Worth City Council recently passed a tougher game room ordinance.  Caty Hirst, Star-Telegram reporter, describes the new tougher restrictions in the article below.  I know for a fact that the code compliance people are going to be shutting down game rooms around town if they don't comply with the ordinance regulations by January 21, 2015.  Why post in this thread about casino gambling?  I was enthusiastic that, if the legislature and voters ever allow casino gambling in Texas, then Fort Worth would gladly welcome a casino gambling/hotel project here.  Judging from the political morality underlying these current game room prohibitions, now I'm not so sure about the local prospects for such a project.

 

 

http://www.star-tele...cle3879158.html

[JBB]

The article doesn't directly mention this, but I think the ordinance is not about morality but about keeping them from being hidden and thus not taxed.

[johnfwd]

The article doesn't directly mention this, but I think the ordinance is not about morality but about keeping them from being hidden and thus not taxed.

Hmm.  Maybe.  But the new ordinance provides that no game room be located within 1000 feet of a school, church, or hospital.  This is similar to the restrictions on selling beer and tobacco (TABC).  I can't help seeing an underlying tinge of morality in my interpretation of that particular regulation.

[BedfordLawyer]

Gambling is the ultimate double edged sword in policy. When the economy is booming, you get these huge projects that can be a lightning rod for consumer spending (and thus jobs, other business creation, etc.) and when people have more discretionary income then the negative effects of gambling on a personal level are lessened. However, when the economy takes a dump you get casino closures which have the reverse effect. Jobs lost, more empty buildings not easily put to a different purpose, businesses that work on the fringe of gamblings (e.g. pawn shops) also take a huge hit and with less discretionary income those people with gambling problems see much greater negative impacts on their lives and their family lives. The more casinos you allow in one area, the more the business is spread out so in turn the when the economy takes a dive it is more likely all the casinos hurt. (E.g. Mississippi casinos; Atlantic City) When you have that one casino across the Red River it's easier to survive when it has such a large part of the DFW market.

 

I'm generally not opposed to gambling but as a public administration issues there needs to be careful thought put into how to deal with the swings in the gambling industry and how to avoid creating a situation where the state/public subsidizes economic downturns but lets the casinos run wild when the economy is good without paying back that support.

[johnfwd]

Being progressive myself regarding economic development, I would welcome a casino gambling/hotel project in, say, the Panther Island area.  Yes, there's the potential reversal of fortunes as a result of an economic recession.  But that can be said of any industry, not just casino gambling (e.g., I would guess Fort Worth revenue and employment has been, or will be, adversely affected by the downturn in shale oil drilling).  I believe being risk averse, meaning don't do anything progressive for fear of dire consequences, never does a city like Fort Worth any good.

[BedfordLawyer]

My point is not that FW necessarily should not have gambling but that a better plan has to be in place than green lighting casino development and hoping for the best.

[JBB]

Casinos in Texas are going to be meticulously planned and regulated on the state level.  It's unlikely that local regulations meant to flush out illegal 8-liners are going to trump state law.  And I continue to feel that you should be careful what you wish for when it comes to casinos.  Texas and Fort Worth will not get Las Vegas.  They will get Bossier City circa 1994 and Win Star.  And I really don't want what to see FW stuck with what Bossier City has now and what Win Star will look like in 20 years: run down, dilapidated casinos that stopped being destinations when the new wore off and are filled with locals just spending money in casinos instead of in other parts of the economy.

[Doohickie]

Who knows?  Maybe that's what the T&P Warehouse owner is holding out for.  That would be a cool casino site.

[johnfwd]

I don't believe Fort Worth is going to be suddenly transformed into a Bossier City with the introduction of a casino gambling/hotel.   How can you compare the country's 16th largest city with a town in Louisiana?

[JBB]

I'm not sure how you pulled that point out of what I posted.  I'm worried that casinos in FW will eventually look like those currently in Bossier City, not the city itself.