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Westin in the works for Cultural District

Cultural District Hotels West 7th University Drive

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#1 JBB

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Posted 28 July 2015 - 07:34 PM

http://www.star-tele...le29251687.html

6 stories, 250 rooms, 210 space parking structure, ballrooms, meeting space, and a full-service restaurant. Tied to the new arena, getting around $7 million in tax breaks from the city. Fronting University between Morton and Bledsoe, I'm assuming on the western half of the block where Dos Gringos is currently located. Capital Bar and Magnolia Motor Lounge on the on the eastern half.

LTI, the developer has a mixed bag of hotel properties around the country, including one opening in the fall in Dallas and another in Frisco.

This is good news. The one thing the CD has been missing in all of the rampant development is a hotel along these lines.



#2 BlueMound

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Posted 28 July 2015 - 07:41 PM

Awesome!



#3 Austin55

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Posted 28 July 2015 - 09:07 PM

I think it's a bit disappointing that a hotel being built for the arena won't really be within a quick walking distance from the arena,  but good news overall. 

 

Hopefully the Museum Place hotel will be rising soon as well.



#4 JBB

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Posted 28 July 2015 - 09:28 PM

I suppose that depends on your definition of quick walking distance. I mapped 3 different routes, 2 from the corner of University and Bledsoe to the corner of Harley and Trail and another to the corner of Gendy and Harley and only the last one was longer than 3/4 of a mile (0.8). 15 minutes tops, 20 if you're slow?

Of course this is moot since the hotel will have a shuttle. And I'm sure there's a fair number of hotel guests that will drive over to the arena to save a quarter of a mile of walking.

#5 Jimmy

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 09:46 AM

Wow.  Great news.



#6 Lobster Eastside

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 10:02 AM

Is Dos Gringos closed?  Going to miss it.......



#7 John T Roberts

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 12:36 PM

I will miss the Dos Gringos neon sign more than I will miss their food.



#8 JBB

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 12:51 PM

I've only been to Dos Gringos once. That was enough. I like their sign too.

#9 johnfwd

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 01:24 PM

I think it's a bit disappointing that a hotel being built for the arena won't really be within a quick walking distance from the arena,  but good news overall. 

 

Hopefully the Museum Place hotel will be rising soon as well.

Great news!  I try to keep up on the latest news, but must have missed the "Museum Place hotel."  Any details on that?



#10 RD Milhollin

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 01:35 PM

I wonder why it was not possible to construct the hotel adjacent to the new arena and closer to the Will Rogers Complex? The proposed location seems a long way from where guests might need to be or want to go in the immediate area, except for Casa Mañana, The Modern and the Kimbell.



#11 cjyoung

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 01:45 PM

Is Dos Gringos closed?  Going to miss it.......

Who cares? Salsa Limon is next door. lol



#12 JBB

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 01:56 PM

johnfwd: A hotel has long been rumored and assumed to be a part of the next phase of Museum Place with Aloft being the brand that I hear most often. Considering how aggressive they've been in expanding in this area, I don't think that it's too off base to assume that will be what goes into MP.

RD: Where else could they build that would be closer or adjacent? The land east of Montgomery is slated for the arena or for parking and the land west of Montgomery would involve going into a residential neighborhood.

#13 Jimmy

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 03:18 PM

This hotel is going to serve far more than just rodeo fans.  I think it's proximity to the cultural district and all of West 7th will mean it's book at or close to capacity most of the time.  As for the walking distance to the arena- well, it's closer than anything they've had so far.  

 

After this project, I'll be really interested to see what happens with the the block immediately to the south- bounded by University, Lancaster, Norwood and Bledsoe.



#14 JBB

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 03:21 PM

Exactly. This is an area that is grossly underserved by hotels compared to other parts of the city. I would not be surprised if this is the first of several hotel projects in the area.

#15 BlueMound

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 04:20 PM

Hotels love to cluster.

I think this will help Museum Place make a deal with a hotel.



#16 Austin55

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 04:59 PM

It seems that the West side of Montgomery Ave. could eventually become a big hotspot for development, but I'm sure the Arlington Heights residents will not be happy about it. A hotel on that street makes more sense of a location to me than where this one will be. I seem to also remember suggesting the parking lots on the right side of the arena rendering would be good places for multistory hotels on top of a parking podium. 

Could be an issue for another topic though. 



#17 JBB

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Posted 30 July 2015 - 11:49 AM

I'm surprised no one has asked this: was this the big project the mayor mentioned? Seems big enough, politically speaking anyway.

#18 JBB

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Posted 30 July 2015 - 11:53 AM

I seem to also remember suggesting the parking lots on the right side of the arena rendering would be good places for multistory hotels on top of a parking podium.


Sorry for the double post.

There's still going to be a big need for non-garage surface parking for livestock trailers during events. I would be surprised if the rodeo wants to continue to park that insane number of trailers down in Rockwood Park during the Stock Show once the arena is completed. Not to mention that it's a terrible use of the park space.

#19 Austin55

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Posted 30 July 2015 - 09:36 PM

Komatsu will be the architect of record



#20 renamerusk

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Posted 30 July 2015 - 11:03 PM

"Support For Local Business" :)



#21 Austin55

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Posted 05 August 2015 - 07:00 AM

7.8 Million in incentives. Must be finished by New Years day 2018.



#22 Doohickie

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Posted 05 August 2015 - 07:46 AM

Is Dos Gringos closed?  Going to miss it.......

 

In a Town Hall meeting Saturday, Betsy confirmed that Dos Gringos is where the hotel will be, so yeah, it's gone.


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#23 John T Roberts

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Posted 05 August 2015 - 08:00 AM

I can also confirm that Dos Gringos will be demolished.  There are also a couple of other properties related to this project that may be demolished.  One of them is a designated Demolition Delay structure. 



#24 Fort Worthology

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Posted 05 August 2015 - 09:18 AM

As long as Salsa Limon survives, that's all I care about - both because I love them and I love that diner building.


- Architecture/urban planning/transit blogger, Fort Worth Weekly

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#25 JBB

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Posted 05 August 2015 - 09:21 AM

Shouldn't be an issue since they're on the block north of this project, right?

#26 Fort Worthology

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Posted 05 August 2015 - 10:04 AM

Yeah, I'm just paranoid.


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#27 Jeriat

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Posted 05 August 2015 - 11:19 AM

As long as Salsa Limon survives, that's all I care about - both because I love them and I love that diner building.


That would be tragic. But no worries about that.

Now the strip office building behind it, however...

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#28 Austin55

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Posted 06 September 2015 - 02:11 AM

Some looks from the zoning commission. Nothing on the actual architecture of it but some idea of how it will be shaped. 

 

It will take up half the block. 

 

westin1.png

 

Here's a pair addressing the view corridors

 

westin2.png

 

westin3.png



#29 John T Roberts

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Posted 06 September 2015 - 08:20 AM

That's a good find.  Thanks for posting.



#30 JBB

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Posted 03 November 2015 - 08:06 PM

Bud Kennedy is reporting on social media that Dos Gringos will close on the 15th.

#31 dfwerdoc

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Posted 04 November 2015 - 10:30 PM

the block next to this is also slated for development --- told it was under contract and the earnest  money just went hard. all seasons car wash is due to close on the 15th of december 



#32 Austin55

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 05:14 AM

the block next to this is also slated for development --- told it was under contract and the earnest  money just went hard. all seasons car wash is due to close on the 15th of december 

 

 

Is Salsa Limon safe?



#33 Jeriat

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 09:33 AM

 

the block next to this is also slated for development --- told it was under contract and the earnest  money just went hard. all seasons car wash is due to close on the 15th of december 

 

 

Is Salsa Limon safe?

 

 

^^^ This is a very important question. 


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#34 dfwerdoc

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Posted 07 November 2015 - 07:08 PM

 

the block next to this is also slated for development --- told it was under contract and the earnest  money just went hard. all seasons car wash is due to close on the 15th of december 

 

 

Is Salsa Limon safe? 

 

i doubt it ... greystar just got the alley vacated. my guess is that the whiteheads and the other 3 property owners are under contract and we will see something multifamily. their 28th story apartment building at victory park will be special. i wish the amon carter museum didn't have a say about the height restrictions on west 7th. 



#35 John T Roberts

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Posted 07 November 2015 - 08:03 PM

HRI, the developer for this property, also restored the Blackstone Hotel.  Their specialty is in preservation. 

 

I think it is good that the Amon Carter Museum does have a say about the height restrictions on West 7th.  That is one of the few places where our skyline views have not been destroyed.



#36 dfwerdoc

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Posted 07 November 2015 - 11:43 PM

with due respect john our skyline has been stagnant. 12 people that want to see the the skyline of fort worth from the board room of the amon carter are having undue influence on the height of the buildings on west 7th. it's kind of been our whole problem, period. john go visit victory park and harwood. there are 5 cranes there. our biggest crane today is building an old folks home 



#37 JBB

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Posted 08 November 2015 - 01:31 AM

Ah, yes. It's been awhile since I issued my stock line, so I'll need some time to dust it off.

What's the more likely reason for no high rise construction along W. 7th or any other part of FW: a sinister conspiracy of which there is no proof involving rich men in a smoke filled boardroom or economic forces of supply and demand that have held true for centuries?

I might buy into the conspiracy a little if this lack of high rises was unique to W. 7th.

#38 jsfslls

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Posted 08 November 2015 - 02:27 AM

Fort Worth is not Dallas, nor should we try to be, so comparing it to Victory Park or Harwood is a flawed observation.

 

It's easy to look from afar and go "Man, why can't we have a skyline like that", but our real focus for true longevity should be the pedestrian experience at the street-level of any building. Yes, I think we should add more to our skyline, and I tend to get jealous of the amount of upward activity going on over there, but there are so many other factors that should really be focused on, a lot of them of which Dallas overlooks.



#39 Jeriat

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Posted 08 November 2015 - 10:15 AM

Fort Worth is not Dallas, nor should we try to be, so comparing it to Victory Park or Harwood is a flawed observation.

 

It's easy to look from afar and go "Man, why can't we have a skyline like that", but our real focus for true longevity should be the pedestrian experience at the street-level of any building. Yes, I think we should add more to our skyline, and I tend to get jealous of the amount of upward activity going on over there, but there are so many other factors that should really be focused on, a lot of them of which Dallas overlooks.

 

Yeah. As much as I would LOVE a skyscraper boom like in Houston, Uptown Dallas, and Austin (btw, I'd much rather follow Austin's growth in terms of skyscrapers), it's less likely to happen anytime soon. 

It's best to focus on the pedestrian level first. 


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#40 John T Roberts

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Posted 08 November 2015 - 11:13 PM

I'm not opposed to new high rise construction. However, I do feel that some of our skyline views should be preserved.  Mainly, as a photographer, some of my old favorite locations to take skyline photographs are no longer available due to new construction. 

 

As for Austin, I really like what they have done to their skyline, but I also wish they had preserved more of the view corridors to the Capitol Building.  You can hardly see it from many points in the city.



#41 dfwerdoc

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Posted 09 November 2015 - 12:21 AM

Ah, yes. It's been awhile since I issued my stock line, so I'll need some time to dust it off.

What's the more likely reason for no high rise construction along W. 7th or any other part of FW: a sinister conspiracy of which there is no proof involving rich men in a smoke filled boardroom or economic forces of supply and demand that have held true for centuries?

I might buy into the conspiracy a little if this lack of high rises was unique to W. 7th.

 

im not saying that you're naive. im saying that you're ill informed. listen to one hour and 18 minutes and 45 seconds into the zoning commision meeting (http://fortworthgov....=5&clip_id=2306) and you'll see how one person, ruth carter stevens has had an undue influence on the height of the buildings of west 7th. sir just look how the developers have perseverated about the height of the westin and you'll understand how this city works or you can just think you're super smart and the market is priced efficiently and that we're conspiracy theorists. yes people care about the view from the board room of the amon carter. 



#42 JBB

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Posted 09 November 2015 - 01:38 PM

I'm not naive about influence in this city. If you read around the forum, you'll see a fairly active topic in the last month where I talked about it extensively. (Although I question how much influence someone can have on a meeting that happened nearly 3 years after their death, but maybe I'm not as "super smart" as I think I am.)

Yes, I understand that there are influences in the Cultural District that can limit building height between there and downtown. But there's a whole lot of city out there where there's also not much vertical construction happening. I'm just pointing out that economic factors are just as involved.

#43 renamerusk

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Posted 10 November 2015 - 09:43 PM

I'm not naive about influence in this city. If you read around the forum, you'll see a fairly active topic in the last month where I talked about it extensively. (Although I question how much influence someone can have on a meeting that happened nearly 3 years after their death, but maybe I'm not as "super smart" as I think I am.)

Yes, I understand that there are influences in the Cultural District that can limit building height between there and downtown. But there's a whole lot of city out there where there's also not much vertical construction happening. I'm just pointing out that economic factors are just as involved.

 

 

im not saying that you're naive. im saying that you're ill informed. listen to one hour and 18 minutes and 45 seconds into the zoning commision meeting (http://fortworthgov....=5&clip_id=2306) and you'll see how one person, ruth carter stevens has had an undue influence on the height of the buildings of west 7th. sir just look how the developers have perseverated about the height of the westin and you'll understand how this city works or you can just think you're super smart and the market is priced efficiently and that we're conspiracy theorists. yes people care about the view from the board room of the amon carter.

 

This one is a fence sitter for me.   For one, Fort Worth is, for all I can tell, a part of the Texas' burgeoning economy; and yet, there does seem to be a glass ceiling or hesitance in the city and it is perplexing.



#44 JBB

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Posted 10 November 2015 - 09:44 PM

There are also a large number of vacant/parking lots in the central core.

#45 renamerusk

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Posted 10 November 2015 - 10:14 PM

There are also a large number of vacant/parking lots in the central core.

 

Yes.  Lots that should be developed, but are not.  Yet it is a widely held view outside of Fort Worth and spoken by mean of innuendo and sometime outright that Sundance Management (SM) has a thumb on what gets approved in Downtown and the West side.  If Sundance has a 5 year plan for a project, then things get inexplicably bogged down.

 

Take One and Two City Place: original hotel and residential plans dropped when SM proposes boutique hotel and condos. I could see the nail for the coffin for those plans when City Place decided to keep the sky bridge connection to the Worthington (SM).

 

To Dallas' credit, its developer market is multi prong; whereas Fort Worth is predominantly a two prong market consisting of SM and Bob Simpson.  That is why it was so encouraging and refreshing to have Jetta Operating, Sinclair Group and the Hilton Hotel Annex Group finally breaking through the status quo.



#46 dfwerdoc

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Posted 11 November 2015 - 01:54 AM

ehey

There are also a large number of vacant/parking lots in the central core.

you're making my point. the reason there are vacant lots is because no one wants to take the risk and the reason they don't want to take the risk is that they have no control. money is sooooo cheap right now; we should have way more cranes building things in the city core. the land community trust bank has had at the corner of summit and 7th has been a joke. surface lots are not threatening to SM and bob simpson. the land in the near west side between belknap and weatherford is ripe for someone to do something special but no developer will take a risk there. as a developer you wouldn't want to buy land and risk capital where your competition controls the zoning. look where hillwood is spending it's money. they're building a whole new city up there. it's also in part why west 7th became vibrant under our very eyes -- 4 dallas developers had real property rights and not this hoax of a form based code that's kept both sides of west 7th (the near west and camp bowie) sleepy villages. im not saying it's all bad -- but i would rather have our city curated by technocrats than businessmen. 



#47 JBB

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Posted 11 November 2015 - 10:50 AM

So I say there's not vertical construction because we have a glut of empty space (supply) and you say we have a glut of empty space because we don't have vertical construction. Stalemate, I guess.

So, why, in your scenario are there nearly a dozen surface lots along Jones and Calhoun, clearly out of the sightlines of the Cultural District, that remain undeveloped if there are developers itching to build somewhere?

And how do you explain Jetta building if the environment is so fraught with stifling competition and zoning practices?

#48 youngalum

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Posted 11 November 2015 - 11:19 AM

Not to beat a dead horse again, but the issue will always be White Collar Jobs in FW.  We do not have the base that other cities have and we are not developing the base unless you are in the O&G business.

 

Till that narrative changes, we will celebrate the 5 story buildings as major accomplishments for most of our growth. 


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#49 renamerusk

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Posted 11 November 2015 - 12:57 PM

Not to beat a dead horse again, but the issue will always be White Collar Jobs in FW.  We do not have the base that other cities have and we are not developing the base unless you are in the O&G business.

 

Till that narrative changes, we will celebrate the 5 story buildings as major accomplishments for most of our growth. 

 

I hear you.  But how exactly will Fort Worth be able to develop that base? - when-

 

Fort Worth has one of the major O&G businesses in its central core, XOM; and when hope has been invested in XOM to come in with a signature project, XOM comes in with a 6-story garage project.

 

Did Jetta Operating need Fort Worth to make its project happen?  Jetta proves that speculative projects can be achieved in the central core; and to prove it, brought in additional  white collar financial jobs (Frost Bank Corp).  How can it be argued that XOM, a titan in the O&G business, supposedly needs the city to develop a base for them.  Not only could XOM consolidate its workforce and have additional space to bring in additional white collar jobs from other professions.

 

I just don't understand how it is "on" Fort Worth when XOM is capable of doing much more and chooses to do nothing more than a parking garage.

 

 

Maybe Fort Worth should provide incentives for Class A office projects; is that the answer?

 

*And before we knew it, once again we have veered away from the subject of this thread.



#50 youngalum

youngalum

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Posted 11 November 2015 - 04:05 PM

Well Jetta and XOM are O&G so any new white collar position created is either filled with current available talent or one is brought in from outside the city.  O&G jobs are never going to be open long in FW as there is depth here to fill those openings.  Frost is consolidation of spaces that will open more class B spaces on Hulen for example.

 

What the city needs is to attract companies that are not O&G.  Hard to do with a lack of depth in the talent available that are not O&G positions and poor performing ISD's.  FW has all the land and necessities to make people want to live here. 

 

Add it the fact that local developers are not know for going out on a limb to build ambitious local projects outside warehouses and infill projects.  Most of the development from West 7th and other areas are outside developers.  There is a reason that City Place is hurting, lack of tenants.  The city has plenty of class A leasing available.  What separates us from Dallas is the mindset not to build till the need arises and in corporate relocations, time is usually not on the side of builders, unless it is a massive relocation like Toyota.

 

There is no easy answer to this problem.  It takes time to develop that talent base.  Having more college graduates stay in the city is a start.  Having places like near southside and magnolia, etc is a good start to make a recent college graduate stay versus moving to Dallas because they have something to do like their neighbors to the East.

 

It is certainly the chicken and egg problem. 







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