Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

General Worth Square

Downtown

  • Please log in to reply
35 replies to this topic

#1 renamerusk

renamerusk

    Skyscraper Member

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,662 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fort Worth South

Posted 04 December 2017 - 10:01 AM

 

 

901 Commerce has been added to DFWI's website

 

massing3-600x400.jpg

 


 

 

The "bones" are in place to make Worth Square a great public space with the removal 950 Commerce; encircle the square with brick paved road, add a water feature or a small puppet theater..Nice!

 

 

 

Yeah 950 Commerce has to go

 

 

It just needs activation of some sort. Ground floor retail would be fantastic, especially if it could tie into the park in some way. 

 

A55, is it that you think that if 950 Commerce could activate components of retail/food like the Sundance Pavilion,  then 950 Commerce could remain a "good fit" within GWS?

 



#2 A_Random_Username

A_Random_Username

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 83 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fort Worth

Posted 04 December 2017 - 05:12 PM

what exactly is 950 commerce?



#3 Austin55

Austin55

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,647 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Near Southside

Posted 04 December 2017 - 05:28 PM

what exactly is 950 commerce?

 

This building - http://www.fortworth...?showtopic=5380

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah 950 Commerce has to go

 

 

 

It just needs activation of some sort. Ground floor retail would be fantastic, especially if it could tie into the park in some way. 

 

A55, is it that you think that if 950 Commerce could activate components of retail/food like the Sundance Pavilion,  then 950 Commerce could remain a "good fit" within GWS?

 


 

 

 

I don't see it as a negative the way it is now.



#4 JBB

JBB

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,420 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Dirty suburbs

Posted 04 December 2017 - 05:39 PM

I picture the square being tied into whatever happens to the north end of the convention center the same way the Water Gardens were tied into the south end expansion.

#5 Austin55

Austin55

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,647 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Near Southside

Posted 04 December 2017 - 05:54 PM

I picture the square being tied into whatever happens to the north end of the convention center the same way the Water Gardens were tied into the south end expansion.


Do you think 9th St should be closed/pedestrianized?

#6 John T Roberts

John T Roberts

    Administrator

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,363 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Fort Worth
  • Interests:Architecture, Photography, Bicycling, Historic Preservation

Posted 04 December 2017 - 07:20 PM

No, I don't think 9th should be closed.  I think the removal of the parking spaces and widening of the sidewalks are enough.  This would create too large of a super block.



#7 A_Random_Username

A_Random_Username

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 83 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fort Worth

Posted 05 December 2017 - 01:28 AM

ahh. always seen it, never knew what it was used for. 



#8 JBB

JBB

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,420 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Dirty suburbs

Posted 05 December 2017 - 09:11 AM

I don't think that 9th should be closed for the same reason as John's, but I would be interested in some type of set up that allows for Main to be closed for events in the square.



#9 John T Roberts

John T Roberts

    Administrator

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,363 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Fort Worth
  • Interests:Architecture, Photography, Bicycling, Historic Preservation

Posted 05 December 2017 - 11:18 AM

The Police and Fire Departments want streets in downtown to either be permanently closed or permanently open (with special exceptions, not just events).  Otherwise, it creates public safety issues.  When the debate was going on regarding the plaza, the PD and FD preferred to have the street permanently closed between 3rd and 4th Streets.  Now, it is only open during parades, which are even more limited exceptions.



#10 rriojas71

rriojas71

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,492 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Belmont Terrace - Historic North Side
  • Interests:Real Estate, RE Development, Geography, Team Sports, Restaurants, Urban Exploring, Gaming, Travel, History

Posted 05 December 2017 - 12:06 PM

I wish they would permanently close Main Street between 2nd & 3rd and then also close 3rd St. between Houston & Commerce. I think it would work better as a true pedestrian mall vibe. I just think 3rd Street is too busy with cars and pedestrians interacting continuously; especially on busy nights.

#11 Dylan

Dylan

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,346 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Suburbia

Posted 05 December 2017 - 07:12 PM

Regarding 9th street, it's a busy corridor for buses traveling between Houston / Throckmorton streets and the ITC.


  • JBB likes this

-Dylan


#12 Austin55

Austin55

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,647 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Near Southside

Posted 04 April 2018 - 10:31 AM

A new Heritage Trails marker dedicated MLK is going to be installed in the Square.

 

http://fortworthtexa...4/mlk-memorial/

 

https://www.fortwort...itagetrails.com



#13 Austin55

Austin55

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,647 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Near Southside

Posted 11 April 2018 - 02:37 PM

DFWI's annual report has a small mention of this. Firm Arcturis did a pro bono study on the park for DFWI, some of the layouts were shown in the report.

 

taYck4P.png



#14 John T Roberts

John T Roberts

    Administrator

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,363 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Fort Worth
  • Interests:Architecture, Photography, Bicycling, Historic Preservation

Posted 11 April 2018 - 05:55 PM

I see that two of these layouts close the street.  I would say that if this block of Main Street was closed, then the city should close the entire street to vehicles and make it a pedestrian only space, except for maybe deliveries.



#15 Dylan

Dylan

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,346 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Suburbia

Posted 11 April 2018 - 08:09 PM

Of the two street closure proposals, there's one with a large grass lawn and one that's mostly paved.

 

I'd rather go with the large grass lawn proposal. The eastern part of downtown lacks large grassy parks, and Main Street already has a paved plaza.


-Dylan


#16 Austin55

Austin55

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,647 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Near Southside

Posted 11 April 2018 - 08:34 PM

I didn't post the text, but it mentions short and long term concepts. Presumably they could build bottom left tomorrow and then have top right in a few years if they wanted. It also mentions an "enhanced role in conjunction with the convention center expansion", so I'd assume any work here would occur around that time. 



#17 renamerusk

renamerusk

    Skyscraper Member

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,662 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fort Worth South

Posted 11 April 2018 - 09:14 PM

I like the closed street models; either is an improvement over the slicing of the square by Main Street.

 

The layout reminds me of Washington Square, NYC.  It would be a perfect situation to place a large spray fountain or a replica of the Tarrant County Courthouse's South Portico (columns and frieze).

 

Someone mentioned the need for something iconic, this square could become comparable to SS and an addition to with cafes and food shops surrounding it.  It would be both an instant success and a picturesque success.

 

There is such potential to this green space.

 

http://www.fortworth...courthouse3.jpg



#18 Now in Denton

Now in Denton

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,069 posts
  • Location:Fort Worth Denton Co.Tx. The new Fort Worth

Posted 12 April 2018 - 08:47 AM

Main street closed or not. I still want that lower right building gone. And get rid of that car tunnel whatever it is. President Kennedy statue put it on that exact spot where he made that public speech on the morning of November 22 1963. And the area where the public stood and heard President Kennedy that morning. A lush open green grass space for the public to enjoy. People can picnic sunbath whatever.JFK statue over looking it. 

 

And oh ! P.S.  Rename it "President Kennedy Square" I never understood what did General Worth do on that block that tumps over that sad but very historic day over Kennedy ? It was just a parking lot before Kennedy speech. Plenty of other ways and places to honor the city namesake. Even have a statue of General Worth of his own in another green space park of his own. Maybe in or around Panther Island ?   



#19 renamerusk

renamerusk

    Skyscraper Member

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,662 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fort Worth South

Posted 12 April 2018 - 10:32 AM

And oh ! P.S.  Rename it "President Kennedy Square" I never understood what did General Worth do on that block that tumps over that sad but very historic day over Kennedy ? ...

 

 History suggests that General Worth actually never visited Fort Worth, however, the general was a highly awarded soldier who did spend time in other parts of Texas.  Worth is also honored in NYC. Fort Worth was named in his honor because of his service to the country.  I hope that I have the history right.

 

Even though I have a positive opinion of JFK, I do not believe that a square honoring the president is more appropriate than the naming of the square for Gen. Worth.  The statue of JFK is without question appropriate, but there ought to be more care in placing memorials and or name public spaces.



#20 Now in Denton

Now in Denton

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,069 posts
  • Location:Fort Worth Denton Co.Tx. The new Fort Worth

Posted 12 April 2018 - 11:50 AM

 

And oh ! P.S.  Rename it "President Kennedy Square" I never understood what did General Worth do on that block that tumps over that sad but very historic day over Kennedy ? ...

 

 History suggests that General Worth actually never visited Fort Worth, however, the general was a highly awarded soldier who did spend time in other parts of Texas.  Worth is also honored in NYC. Fort Worth was named in his honor because of his service to the country.  I hope that I have the history right.

 

Even though I have a positive opinion of JFK, I do not believe that a square honoring the president is more appropriate than the naming of the square for Gen. Worth.  The statue of JFK is without question appropriate, but there ought to be more care in placing memorials and or name public spaces.

 

 

Again General Worth didn't do anything on that block ? As I said we can honor him in other ways in another area. With a statue of General Worth himself. It was just a parking lot before the speech. But suddenly after the Presidents death. City leaders had a sudden itch to honor General Worth on that particular lot ? It just had to be that Kennedy speech lot ? You said it yourself. And that is also what I heard, that General Worth never been to Fort Worth. That is a head-scratcher. I believe it is very appropriate to name the park after Kennedy. Well that is my strong opinion on that matter anyway. 



#21 John T Roberts

John T Roberts

    Administrator

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,363 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Fort Worth
  • Interests:Architecture, Photography, Bicycling, Historic Preservation

Posted 12 April 2018 - 01:27 PM

General William Jenkins Worth never visited Fort Worth.  He actually died before the fort was ever established.  He passed away from cholera in San Antonio a few months before.  However, that is probably why the fort was named after him because of the fairly short amount of time between his passing and setting up of the fort.

 

The block bounded by 8th, Commerce, 9th, and Main was the home of the Metropolitan Hotel.  It was built on the western half of the block in 1898 by Winfield Scott.  It was doubled in size around 1905 to include the eastern half of the block.  In 1938, it was sold to the Milner Hotel Corp. and remained in their hands until 1959.  However, it was during this time that it became run down.  The hotel closed in that year and was demolished for a parking lot.  It was in that parking lot where John F. Kennedy appeared before the public on the day that he was assassinated.  In the mid-1960's, the Moncrief family purchased the southeast corner of the block and built their office building on the site.  In the late 1970's, with the restoration of the old Hotel Texas (Hilton) and construction of Continental Plaza (777 Main) planned, the City of Fort Worth purchased the remaining 3/4 of that block and 1/2 block to the west where Washer Bros. was located.  The city built a 2 level underground parking garage that connected into the Hotel Texas with a city park on top.  At that time, there was no place honoring General Worth, so they decided to name the green space after him. 

 

This is why there is a concrete ramp going down off of Commerce and off of 8th Street.  These ramps need to be in place to utilize the underground parking.



#22 renamerusk

renamerusk

    Skyscraper Member

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,662 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fort Worth South

Posted 06 March 2019 - 12:37 AM

 

 

wt-night.jpg

 

 Would the Avenue of Lights be better appreciated being placed in GWS?

 

https://www.dfwi.org...venue-of-lights



#23 John T Roberts

John T Roberts

    Administrator

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,363 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Fort Worth
  • Interests:Architecture, Photography, Bicycling, Historic Preservation

Posted 06 March 2019 - 08:35 AM

I think the Avenue of Lights is in the best place.  Once all of Lancaster is redeveloped, there will be plenty of people walking down the street to appreciate the sculptures.



#24 panthercity

panthercity

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 312 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fort Worth

Posted 06 March 2019 - 01:01 PM

They need to be brighter, they would make more of an impact. As they stand now, they dont do much for me.

#25 John T Roberts

John T Roberts

    Administrator

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,363 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Fort Worth
  • Interests:Architecture, Photography, Bicycling, Historic Preservation

Posted 06 March 2019 - 01:12 PM

They have already been brightened once.



#26 panthercity

panthercity

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 312 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fort Worth

Posted 06 March 2019 - 01:15 PM

Recently? I hadnt even noticed.

#27 renamerusk

renamerusk

    Skyscraper Member

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,662 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fort Worth South

Posted 06 March 2019 - 01:20 PM

I think the Avenue of Lights is in the best place.  Once all of Lancaster is redeveloped, there will be plenty of people walking down the street to appreciate the sculptures.

 

 

They need to be brighter, they would make more of an impact. As they stand now, they dont do much for me.

 

 

They have already been brightened once.

 

I believe they can never be fully appreciated placed in a street median where and when viewed at the same time while negotiating traffic.  The lights get lost among all of the vehicular commotion and traffic lights. Another problem is that as a work of art, the lights do not work together as a unit due to the distance between them. As they are now, they are a bit of a dud.

 

If the light were place at the north and south ends of GWS, they would create a gate effect for the square.  Just my thought.



#28 renamerusk

renamerusk

    Skyscraper Member

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,662 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fort Worth South

Posted 05 February 2020 - 05:16 PM

DFWI's annual report has a small mention of this. Firm Arcturis did a pro bono study on the park for DFWI, some of the layouts were shown in the report.

 

taYck4P.png

 

 Lets get make NYC an offer for their GW Monument to bring it to our square.  My preference is street closure with a paved plaza (D) with the monument centered in the eye sight of the courthouse.

 

https://www.google.c...4!4d-73.9889747



#29 John T Roberts

John T Roberts

    Administrator

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,363 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Fort Worth
  • Interests:Architecture, Photography, Bicycling, Historic Preservation

Posted 05 February 2020 - 06:48 PM

Rename, so I guess you are proposing to bring his body with the monument?  You know, he is buried there in New York.  I like scheme D.



#30 renamerusk

renamerusk

    Skyscraper Member

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,662 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fort Worth South

Posted 05 February 2020 - 07:00 PM

I didn't actually know that he is buried in the square, but if his descendants did not have an objection to his remains being taken for a third interment to Fort Worth, the city that bears his name, then yes, brings both to Fort Worth.

 

https://kewmanagemen...t-worth-square/



#31 John T Roberts

John T Roberts

    Administrator

  • Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,363 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Fort Worth
  • Interests:Architecture, Photography, Bicycling, Historic Preservation

Posted 05 February 2020 - 07:34 PM

He was a native New Yorker, and he never saw the city that was named after him. 



#32 Doohickie

Doohickie

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,004 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Hills

Posted 05 February 2020 - 08:14 PM

I think a replica of the NYC monument would be a good idea.


My blog: Doohickie

#33 renamerusk

renamerusk

    Skyscraper Member

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,662 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fort Worth South

Posted 05 February 2020 - 09:20 PM

He was a native New Yorker, and he never saw the city that was named after him. 

 

 How is the fact that he was from New York or that he never saw the city that was named after him a case for not honoring him in Fort Worth?



#34 Doohickie

Doohickie

    Skyscraper Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,004 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Hills

Posted 05 February 2020 - 10:06 PM

I don't think he was trying to make that case.  Just stating a fact, possibly to explain the monument in NYC.


My blog: Doohickie

#35 renamerusk

renamerusk

    Skyscraper Member

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,662 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fort Worth South

Posted 05 February 2020 - 10:37 PM

Maybe.  However, that is an argument that might have been made at the time that Fort Worth was being founded.  But of course, we know neither of those facts held water at the time.  Worth play a significant role in the Mexican -American War (helping to strip Texas from Mexico).

 

As for being in NYC, by the time of General Worth's death, NYC was or if not already the largest city in America; and a major military hero like Worth would have been honored either there or in Washington, DC.



#36 pilgrim

pilgrim

    Newcomer

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 23 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Dallas

Posted 05 February 2020 - 10:43 PM

I didn't realize his body was buried in N.Y.C. either.  Being a native New Yorker I can understand leaving his body there.  From what I understand he was revered at West Point and went on to be the (or a) commanding officer of the Mexican-American War (in which Grant and Lee served under his command if I'm not mistaken).  At any rate, making such a square a prominent feature in that part of downtown with or without the original statue and re-interned body will be something to look forward too.  The design possibilities are endless, but it should invoke both history of the man, his time, and the great city of Fort Worth from its inception to its future (I remember Jackson Square in N.O. being impressive).  I'm inclined to see a new and unique statue commissioned along with fountains and other water features.  A scaled-down version of the Sundance square area would be interesting, especially the fountain feature to enjoy during a hot September!







0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users