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Superbowl coming to DFW


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#1 lobster

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Posted 13 April 2005 - 10:23 AM

Superbowl coming to Arlington ... now's FW's chance to step in and promote this so Dallas doesn't get all the plugs to the world audience :no:

Tagliabue 'quite certain' Super Bowl headed to Arlington
By Charean Williams
Star-Telegram Staff Writer

IRVING _ National Football League commissioner Paul Tagliabue said he expected the Dallas Cowboys' new stadium in Arlington to be awarded a Super Bowl, but he would not commit to 2011.

"I think [Arlington] has a hell of a shot at getting [the 2011 game], yes," said Tagliabue, speaking at the SMU Athletic Forum on Tuesday. "But nothing in life is shoo-in, and there will be competition, I would imagine, for that game as there ordinarily is for every game. Whether it's 2011 or '12, I'm quite certain you're going to see a Super Bowl in that stadium not too long after it opens."

Arlington voters agreed to help finance a $650 million retractable-roof stadium that is scheduled to open in 2009.

The next three Super Bowls will be in Detroit, Miami and Phoenix, respectively. Houston, Atlanta, Miami and Tampa Bay are candidates for Super Bowl XLIII in 2009, and New York has won the 2010 game, contingent on the Jets getting a new stadium in Manhattan.

"We know the type of facility that we're going to have, and that's going to be very attractive for Super Bowls _ not only the initial Super Bowl we have but [multiple] Super Bowls," Cowboys owner Jerry Jones said.

#2 cjyoung

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Posted 13 April 2005 - 10:34 AM

It'll be all Dallas, all the time! B)

...just like the Breeders Cup. The NFL will setup it's headquarters at the Anatole and most of the big events will occur in Dallas. :(

...and everyone in Fort Worth will be so happy that the Super Bowl is in the "Metroplex," while everyone else in the 16 county region will be welcoming everyone to Dallas. :no:


:ph34r: :ph34r: :ph34r: :ph34r: :ph34r:

#3 JBB

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Posted 13 April 2005 - 10:37 AM

To be fair, the Breeder's Cup did hold their fundraising gala, complete with an intimate George Straight concert, in Fort Worth.

I wouldn't be surprised to see the people who made that happen try to get a piece of the Super Bowl action.

#4 lobster

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Posted 13 April 2005 - 10:59 AM

It'll be all Dallas, all the time! :(
...just like the Breeders Cup. The NFL will setup it's headquarters at the Anatole and most of the big events will occur in Dallas. :?:
...and everyone in Fort Worth will be so happy that the Super Bowl is in the "Metroplex," while everyone else in the 16 county region will be welcoming everyone to Dallas. B)

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aha! this is why I say "now's our chance".. Yes, the cowboys bear the Dallas name but the game will be in Tarrant County, and so Arlington n' FW: we's family! (even if for one evening six years from now :no: ) And so if FW ramps up the hype early, offers sweet cushy comps to the NFL crew, we can snag this .. Despite what you saw on the top of our xmas tree, FW can out-market Dallas if our hearts are in it :(

#5 safly

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Posted 13 April 2005 - 12:25 PM

It'll be all Dallas, all the time! :(
...just like the Breeders Cup. The NFL will setup it's headquarters at the Anatole and most of the big events will occur in Dallas. :?:
...and everyone in Fort Worth will be so happy that the Super Bowl is in the "Metroplex," while everyone else in the 16 county region will be welcoming everyone to Dallas. :cry:

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aha! this is why I say "now's our chance".. Yes, the cowboys bear the Dallas name but the game will be in Tarrant County, and so Arlington n' FW: we's family! (even if for one evening six years from now) And so if FW ramps up the hype early, offers sweet cushy comps to the NFL crew, we can snag this .. Despite what you saw on the top of our xmas tree, FW can out-market Dallas if our hearts are in it

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Like I have been saying all this time Lob's. Arlington n FW is family. I like how you are starting to think now. NFL SBowl committees gotta have some fun, so let's give them a red carpet treatment at Del Frisco's :wub: and perhaps some entertaining at the FW Club, or Stockyards, or even with our own FWSymphony. B) We do host the O'Brien awards here, EVEN THOUGH THEY SCREWED UP THEIR VOTES FOR THE LAST 2 YEARS! GO SC!

We have the means of really puttin up some stiff competition in before Arlington steps-up and creates an inhouse venue in the mean time, other than the stadium? So come on folks! Let's extend the OLIVE BRANCH to our brethren across the MLK. It's our only shot at joining forces for the BIG ONE.

Our motto's can be:
Fort Worth, the town that Willie (Nelson) chooses to party with! :angry:
or, Why go for the Big "D" when you can go for the BIG " F and W"?
or, We've got more of the letters in DFW! :o
or, SALLAD is for Lightweights. (Dallas spelled backwards) :lol:
Note to self:Coin it!

If you were every bit as disgruntled as I was that Tag's went to visit SMUrf, than come on peoples, let's get creative on this, NOW! :z:

TCU should have put their best effort in hosting the NFL Commish, we at least host an NCAA Bowl Game. I think.
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#6 lobster

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Posted 13 April 2005 - 01:20 PM

We've got more of the letters in DFW!  :angry:

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bawhahw
Fort Worth: 2/3 of DFW!

.. I think people on the national level have no idea that the games were even held in Irving 'cept when ol Madden would lightly mention it when they're coming back from commercial to a goodyear shot of downtown dallas in the distance, mouth full of pork cutlet..

but then again, there are many stadiums (I once heard Mark Davis say Stadii .. is that correct?) located in lesser-known cities people probably aren't aware of or care about.. when was the last time you thought of visiting East Rutherford NJ while watching a Giants game? Anyone care the Redskins play in Landover MD ? Bills = Orchard Park NY, who knew? But with clever marketing we can take ownership and let people know everytime they watch a friggin Cowboys game that it takes place in more-or-less Fort Worth!

#7 safly

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Posted 13 April 2005 - 01:36 PM

Lobs! FW : 2/3's of DFW. :angry:

We MUST market that one as a black and white bumper sticker. You can even stick em on bright green "Mad Hatter" hats to distribute in every DTFW bar on the wekends, til Arlington publicly joins our camp.

2/3's . :lol: Phenomenal!
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#8 lobster

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Posted 13 April 2005 - 01:39 PM

Like I have been saying all this time Lob's. Arlington n FW is family. I like how you are starting to think now.

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Now now, don't get too excited .. I said "if only for one evening six years from now" :angry: .. I like to make it clear to people that there is a distinct difference between that little splotch of roller coasters & Applebees and the great Fort Worth --- but for the Superbowl, we can put on the we-family face for a night or two :lol: ..

{I am not much of a fan of Arlington.. I lived there for six months long ago back during very horrible times and the town itself only added to the depression .. (funny enough, it was downtown fw that saved me from that slop -- dtfw has such a healing effect, you have no idea) .. I try to be objective and look beyond personal experiences when judging a city, but as a temporary resident I never found it to have much character and everytime I saw a city council meeting on tv i was amazed to see actual people taking an actual interest in things that happened there.. :wub: .. To be fair, River Legacy is marginally pretty, but that's the 0.0051% of Arlington I could tolerate.. }

HAVING SAID THAT, when it comes to the FW-(Arlington)-Dallas tug-of-war game, Arlington more resembles FW than Dallas as far as proximity and pace of life, and that should be kept in mind when this Superbowl rolls around... Arl is OUR lil ugly kid brother and we will take him under our wing! Come to think of it, I don't think I've ever heard the words "Arlington" and "Dallas" ever spoken in the same sentence, they're such worlds apart. The true test is, would Dallas dare stoop to actually equate itself with Arlington to attract hype for the SB? FW is more believable, closer, and therefore we should win this one hands down. So like I say.. for one evening far in the future, yay arlington! :ph34r:

#9 lobster

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Posted 13 April 2005 - 01:42 PM

Lobs! FW : 2/3's of DFW. :angry:

We MUST market that one as a black and white bumper sticker. You can even stick em on bright green "Mad Hatter" hats to distribute in every DTFW bar on the wekends, til Arlington publicly joins our camp.

2/3's .  :wub: Phenomenal!

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haha
they'd certainly get a kick out of it @ city council...
it's been a while since i've kept 'em in line w/ a citizen presentation.. perhaps one is due :lol:

#10 safly

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Posted 13 April 2005 - 01:54 PM

Lobs! FW : 2/3's of DFW. :angry:

We MUST market that one as a black and white bumper sticker. You can even stick em on bright green "Mad Hatter" hats to distribute in every DTFW bar on the wekends, til Arlington publicly joins our camp.

2/3's .  :wub: Phenomenal!

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haha
they'd certainly get a kick out of it @ city council...
it's been a while since i've kept 'em in line w/ a citizen presentation.. perhaps one is due :lol:

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I'll get the PPoint. You apply for the TIF on it.(Worth a try) Then we will both sweet talk former Mayor Barr to cut us a printing deal. You know on shirts, stickers, banners, golf balls and stuff. $$$$, Cha Ching!

IT WILL WORK, TRUST ME.
Just like the Annika Soren"STAMPEDE"! T-shirts I made up for the '03 Colonial. Limited Edition of course.

BT :cry: can model it with his St. Paddy's day get-up.
COWTOWN! Get your TIP ON!
www.iheartfw.com

#11 safly

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Posted 13 April 2005 - 01:58 PM

ITMT, Would lil Arl consider Annexation ? :angry:

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Eat, Drink, and Smoke in good ol Fort Worth. :lol:
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#12 mosteijn

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Posted 13 April 2005 - 02:16 PM

Well it sounds good in theory, and Fort Worth should try to work its way into as much national coverage as it can, but it won't come easily. Dallas is an attention whore and won't go down without a fight. Sadly I think the superbowl dichotomy will play out the same way the basic regional system works today: people stay (live) in Fort Worth and party in Dallas.

While Fort Worth will undoubtedly see a huge (albeit brief) surge in tourism from the superbowl, I think the big winner in terms of national media hype wil be Arlington. Arlington has more power than people give it credit for, and will find a way to make sure whenever the superbowl is mentioned, the location given will be "Arlington, TX" rather than Dallas or even Fort Worth.

In my fantasy world though, the best thing that could happen for Fort Worth is if we build a light rail system the links future urban entertainment districts within the city and connects to Arlington via commuter rail (is it the UP line?), commuter rail that doesn't go to Dallas just yet. Then car-less tourists could fly into DFW, take the Cotton Belt to downtown Fort Worth, stay here, take the commuter rail to Arlington, and come back to hit the clubs and such. Unfortunately, given how utterly progressive :angry: we are, I have a feeling most of that isn't going to happen.

#13 JBB

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Posted 13 April 2005 - 02:37 PM

FW should go after the media center or the media party that happens the week before the game. DT may be a little far for the media center, but, if not, they should go for it.

#14 gdvanc

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Posted 13 April 2005 - 02:59 PM

much ado about nada, imho.

btw, lobs: i believe fw has more applebee's per capita than arlington.

outside of downtown, much of fw is pretty much the same as most of a-town. most development in fw is basically suburban - just happens to be inside the city limits of a city with a high-rise cbd.

<tangent>for those who prefer suburban living (and believe it or not, many people do at least for some stage in their lives), what factors affect the choice between arlington and suburban fort worth? my guess: familiarity, temporal proximity to (family|friends), perceived quality of schools, perceived safety, temporal proximity to work, perceived value of proximal (entertainment|recreation)</tangent>

#15 lobster

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Posted 13 April 2005 - 03:04 PM

Dallas is an attention whore and won't go down without a fight.

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hmm.. I think I can give Dallas a run for its money at media whoredom :angry:
and I'm happy to use my powers for the FW side .. the war is already won!


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FW: No presidents assassinated HERE )

#16 lobster

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Posted 13 April 2005 - 03:23 PM

btw, lobs: i believe fw has more applebee's per capita than arlington.

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applebees is my default "suburban chain restaurant" for effect and humor when talking about the ultimate in suburbanism, but if you enjoy fun tangents of semantics, after a little fact checking, you are indeed correct:

Arl pop: 361300, # of Applebees = 1
Arl APC (applebees per capita, of course) = 0.00000276778
FW pop: 534694, # of Applebees = 2
FW APC = 0.00000374047

you win, neighborhood grille grasshopper, but not by much! :wub: .. mind you, both FW's applebees are in the burbs just as well, so what can I tell you .. (glad I didn't go with my other default burb joint, Bennigans.. Arl=2, FW=5!)

Anyway, back to the topic,

outside of downtown, much of fw is pretty much the same as most of a-town. most development in fw is basically suburban - just happens to be inside the city limits of a city with a high-rise cbd.

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Hm. although it may feel/look the same if you were taken by helicopter and plopped into a field somewhere off SE 287 inside loop 820, the fact of the matter is that if you live in FW you have a sense of belonging to the history, and yes, the cbd is there for you as a bonus :lol: .. people identify with the "city" they live in, even if it's just a lil' house way off at the edge of the city limits.. but just because I'm largely biased towards downtown doesn't mean I don't appreciate other parts of FW..

I'm sure people in Dallas probably feel the way about Grand Prairie :angry:

#17 lobster

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Posted 13 April 2005 - 04:13 PM

(btw gdvanc I didn't mean to insult anyone from the forum that actually lives in Arlington.. I was just exerting my fw vs. dallas passion and I guess arlington got caught in between... (just like they do on i-30!) .. so I don't mean to create a fw vs arlington battle, as you've pointed out, I'm just trying to illustrate that fw & arlington have more ties than that of dallas.. no hard feelins) :angry:

.. i still call it wet n' wild

#18 gdvanc

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Posted 13 April 2005 - 04:34 PM

you win, neighborhood grille grasshopper, but not by much! :) .. mind you, both FW's applebees are in the burbs just as well, so what can I tell you .. (glad I didn't go with my other default burb joint, Bennigans.. Arl=2, FW=5!)

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it might be mildly interesting to compare overall chain restaurants per capita between the two cities. or mall space. or big box space. personally, i'm too tired.


Anyway, back to the topic,

outside of downtown, much of fw is pretty much the same as most of a-town. most development in fw is basically suburban - just happens to be inside the city limits of a city with a high-rise cbd.

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Hm. although it may feel/look the same if you were taken by helicopter and plopped into a field somewhere off SE 287 inside loop 820, the fact of the matter is that if you live in FW you have a sense of belonging to the history, and yes, the cbd is there for you as a bonus ;) .. people identify with the "city" they live in, even if it's just a lil' house way off at the edge of the city limits.. but just because I'm largely biased towards downtown doesn't mean I don't appreciate other parts of FW..

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not sure i agree, but it'd take a good survey to sort it out.

this may be incoherent; i'm under the weather, medicated, and keep getting distracted...

my thinking: i do agree that people often id with their city - but i don't think in general that it's automatic. it develops over time. fw has been high-growth for several years; much of that growth, of course, has come from the outside and is in areas further from the cbd; many of those people haven't necessarily developed a real connection to - a sense of belonging to the history of - fort worth. i'm thinking of people in far north and far south fort worth primarily, but also people inside the loop. hopefully most will develop those connections over time. mean time, they're still basically suburbanites. :-) no more urban or urbane or connected to fw than today's arlington residents would be if annexed tomorrow. and the point i was really trying to make is that the suburban mentality you dislike in arlington is pretty common in much of fort worth. some fort worth residents live where they live because their house met their needs (price, size, travel time, etc.) and it just happens to be in fort worth.

the fw cbd is just as convenient for someone in arlington (and certainly nrh and heb et. al.) as it is for people in outer fort worth, so it's not quite as much of a factor as it might otherwise be.

admit i could be wrong. wouldn't bother me to be, either. not that important.


I'm sure people in Dallas probably feel the way about Grand Prairie  :swg:

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I'm not sure people in dallas think about gp much at all.

#19 gdvanc

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Posted 13 April 2005 - 04:44 PM

i'm not insulted. arlington is easy to criticize. there are many reasons why i live here, but there are many frustrations, too. and a lot of wasted potential.

#20 lobster

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Posted 13 April 2005 - 05:00 PM

and the point i was really trying to make is that the suburban mentality you dislike in arlington is pretty common in much of fort worth. some fort worth residents live where they live because their house met their needs (price, size, travel time, etc.) and it just happens to be in fort worth.

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yessa .. I don't mean to bash it so much, most of what I say on here is a mixture of venting and humor.. I lived way up near Eagle Mountain Lake from the age of 3 through 18 so I grew up in country/suburbia .. I know that scene well, and I had a great time growing up in that environment.. it worked for my folks (nyc transplants) and all our neighbors seemed to have enjoyed it.. so I recognize it works for many people .. it's just as an adult I realize it's not for me .. and so therefore it's easy for me to make fun barbs at it.. and that's all any of this is :angry:

#21 safly

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Posted 13 April 2005 - 06:27 PM

and the point i was really trying to make is that the suburban mentality you dislike in arlington is pretty common in much of fort worth. some fort worth residents live where they live because their house met their needs (price, size, travel time, etc.) and it just happens to be in fort worth.

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yessa .. I don't mean to bash it so much, most of what I say on here is a mixture of venting and humor.. I lived way up near Eagle Mountain Lake from the age of 3 through 18 so I grew up in country/suburbia .. I know that scene well, and I had a great time growing up in that environment.. it worked for my folks (nyc transplants) and all our neighbors seemed to have enjoyed it.. so I recognize it works for many people .. it's just as an adult I realize it's not for me .. and so therefore it's easy for me to make fun barbs at it.. and that's all any of this is :wub:

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NYC to Eagle Mountain Lake? :angry:



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#22 Willy1

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Posted 13 April 2005 - 07:38 PM

ITMT, Would lil Arl consider Annexation ? :angry:

Aother motto:
Eat, Drink, and Smoke in good ol Fort Worth. :lol:

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Hey, that's a great idea... Get FW to just annex Arlington (as if FW ever asks a community if they'd consider annexing.) and that combined with FW's growth rate will make FW larger than Dallas by 2011 - which will result in The Dallas Cowboys calling FW home and calling Dallas a suburb.

Seriously, we need to remember something... Arlington is NOT Fort Worth, in the same way that FW is not Dallas.... People in FW get hacked when Dallas steals FW's credit on stuff. FW shouldn't turn around and do the same thing to Arlington. If FW wanted credit for the Sbowl then they should have gotten off their butts and put in an offer to build the stadium in FW and beat Arlington to the punch for once. We've already passed on a chance for a MLB team and that's how the Rangers landed in Arlington (from what I have heard.) FW is just way too passive for that sort of competition. It's that same passiveness that has kept FW a sleepy little hidden secret until recent years.

#23 DrkLts

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Posted 13 April 2005 - 08:06 PM

:angry: FW won't do anything. If the city can't even get its name on its own TX Motor Speedway with its Nextel Cup (superbowl equivelent in the world of racing) then what makes everyone think they gonna embrace the Arlington Superbowl???

#24 cjyoung

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Posted 13 April 2005 - 08:15 PM

Arlington n' FW: we's family!  (even if for one evening six years from now  :angry: )


...with family like Arlington (Southlake and Grapevine too :lol: ) you don't need any enemies. :ph34r:

#25 cjyoung

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Posted 13 April 2005 - 08:17 PM

ITMT, Would lil Arl consider Annexation ? :angry:

Aother motto:
Eat, Drink, and Smoke in good ol Fort Worth. :lol:

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Hey, that's a great idea... Get FW to just annex Arlington (as if FW ever asks a community if they'd consider annexing.) and that combined with FW's growth rate will make FW larger than Dallas by 2011 - which will result in The Dallas Cowboys calling FW home and calling Dallas a suburb.

Seriously, we need to remember something... Arlington is NOT Fort Worth, in the same way that FW is not Dallas.... People in FW get hacked when Dallas steals FW's credit on stuff. FW shouldn't turn around and do the same thing to Arlington. If FW wanted credit for the Sbowl then they should have gotten off their butts and put in an offer to build the stadium in FW and beat Arlington to the punch for once. We've already passed on a chance for a MLB team and that's how the Rangers landed in Arlington (from what I have heard.) FW is just way too passive for that sort of competition. It's that same passiveness that has kept FW a sleepy little hidden secret until recent years.

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The difference is that Ag Town is in the county in which we are the county seat.

We have a urban core. We have jobs. Most of our residents work in our city. The same can't be said about Ag Town.

#26 cjyoung

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Posted 13 April 2005 - 08:26 PM

Sadly I think the superbowl dichotomy will play out the same way the basic regional system works today: people stay (live) in Fort Worth and party in Dallas.

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Anybody that tells you Dallas is a better place to party doesn't know how to party. :red:

If you're looking to waist time hanging with people who used to be fat and ugly before their gastric bypass and total body reconstruction, then Dallas is the place for you. :roflol:

Of course, if you want real fun with real people, then Funkytown is the place. :D

#27 safly

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Posted 13 April 2005 - 11:15 PM

ITMT, Would lil Arl consider Annexation ? :roflol:

Aother motto:
Eat, Drink, and Smoke in good ol Fort Worth. :D

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Hey, that's a great idea... Get FW to just annex Arlington (as if FW ever asks a community if they'd consider annexing.) and that combined with FW's growth rate will make FW larger than Dallas by 2011 - which will result in The Dallas Cowboys calling FW home and calling Dallas a suburb.

Seriously, we need to remember something... Arlington is NOT Fort Worth, in the same way that FW is not Dallas.... People in FW get hacked when Dallas steals FW's credit on stuff. FW shouldn't turn around and do the same thing to Arlington. If FW wanted credit for the Sbowl then they should have gotten off their butts and put in an offer to build the stadium in FW and beat Arlington to the punch for once.
" It's that same passiveness that has kept FW a sleepy little hidden secret until recent years."

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Or a sleepy lil panther. :red:
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#28 normanfd

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Posted 14 April 2005 - 01:25 AM

Holding the Super Bowl in Arlington only benefits Arlington and Dallas. The networks will show the Dallas skyline from the blimp when they return from commercials. They will also mention that the stadium is in Arlington when they announce attendance statistics. George Strait will sing "The Star-Spangled Banner" rather than "Does Fort Worth Ever Cross Your Mind." It will be LaToya's turn to show off her east-facing tit instead of her west-facing one at halftime.

Texans familiar with Fort Worth will book hotel rooms in the city because they know local geography. Hollywood and Wall Street people will be featured on Entertainment Tonight for the parties they attend in Dallas.

TV will make no mention that Fort Worth is larger than most NFL cities. TV will make no mention of the fact that Arlington is larger than no small number of NFL cities. TV will mention Dallas twice as often as Fort Worth and Arlington combined.

Arlington will never choose to incorporate with Fort Worth because Arlington eschews city taxes over public services. Tom Vandergriff is the only Arlington resident who has lived in that town for more than five years who also professes that he intends to remain a resident for at least five more years. No one else gives a rat's ass whether the city prospers in the long haul, since it's only a temporary community.

#29 lobster

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Posted 14 April 2005 - 06:59 AM

Seriously, we need to remember something... Arlington is NOT Fort Worth, in the same way that FW is not Dallas.... People in FW get hacked when Dallas steals FW's credit on stuff. FW shouldn't turn around and do the same thing to Arlington.

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..an excellent point that I lost sight of in my bid for using the TC brotherhood as my scapegoat in my ingenious ploy to give FW some recognition during this SB six years from now :roflol:

If FW wanted credit for the Sbowl then they should have gotten off their butts and put in an offer to build the stadium in FW and beat Arlington to the punch for once.

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You know, I GAVE A CITY COUNCIL SPEECH ON THIS VERY TOPIC ONCE .. about oct of 2003, I asked to the council at large "why don't we step in and buy the cowboys?" and Jim Lane quickly awakened from his under-sombrero snooze to say "I am the head of the FW Sports Authority and we've been working on that for years".... (it's on record ! ) .. of course this was before Arl stepped up and hacked it. And indeed they deserve it.. I just hate that Dallas is going to inevitably syphen off this when we should get first dibs to syphen .. cuz.. you know... we family! :red:

#30 lobster

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Posted 14 April 2005 - 07:05 AM

The networks will show the Dallas skyline from the blimp when they return from commercials.

They will also mention that the stadium is in Arlington when they announce attendance statistics.

TV will make no mention that Fort Worth is larger than most NFL cities.

TV will mention Dallas twice as often as Fort Worth and Arlington combined.

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UNLESS .. we step up early on! it's all about marketing, that's what any of this is... arlington knows damn well people won't ask for arlington by name when visiting the metroplex after seeing the superbowl, so it's really down to D vs FW in the long run like everything else.. and since we family :roflol: arlington should naturally endorse FW as the co-superbowl town .. :red:

the MOMENt they announce whether arlington will get 2011 or 2012, FW needs to put banners all over town (where those dopey Mayfest banners hang) saying FORT WORTH: SUPERBOWL LXLXXICXLLCIVII CITY! etc .. drill that mindset that FW will be a major part of the fun early on.. i'm already ordering my taquito tray from sams as we speak

#31 Sam Stone

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Posted 14 April 2005 - 07:44 AM

Holding the Super Bowl in Arlington only benefits Arlington and Dallas. The networks will show the Dallas skyline from the blimp when they return from commercials. They will also mention that the stadium is in Arlington when they announce attendance statistics. George Strait will sing "The Star-Spangled Banner" rather than "Does Fort Worth Ever Cross Your Mind." It will be LaToya's turn to show off her east-facing tit instead of her west-facing one at halftime.

Texans familiar with Fort Worth will book hotel rooms in the city because they know local geography. Hollywood and Wall Street people will be featured on Entertainment Tonight for the parties they attend in Dallas.

TV will make no mention that Fort Worth is larger than most NFL cities. TV will make no mention of the fact that Arlington is larger than no small number of NFL cities. TV will mention Dallas twice as often as Fort Worth and Arlington combined.

Arlington will never choose to incorporate with Fort Worth because Arlington eschews city taxes over public services. Tom Vandergriff is the only Arlington resident who has lived in that town for more than five years who also professes that he intends to remain a resident for at least five more years. No one else gives a rat's ass whether the city prospers in the long haul, since it's only a temporary community.

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normanfd, I have to disagree with you on a few points, as much as I despise the burbs. There are quite a few people in Arlington who have been there a long time and will probably stay there a long time. Some might call them the "powers that be." They're probably in the minority, but I think they also exercise the most political clout. And they like it the way it is. But you're right about the tax/service thing. Local government fragmentation has allowed residents of Arlington and the other burbs to fictitiously live outside of Dallas and FW when really they wouldn't be here at all if not for the two real cities.

I like to think in terms of taxes, so think about this: FW, having a great number of cultural and civic institutions has quite a bit of untaxable property. Property that goes untaxed is in effect subsidized by the other taxpayers. When non-residents get to enjoy these amenities/attractions, this activity is also subsidized by the residents. We pay for the museums, but everyone gets to enjoy them. Arlington has quite a few attractions itself, but they are different from ours. They are for profit, on the tax rolls, and generate revenue for the city.

#32 Biggins

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Posted 14 April 2005 - 09:03 AM

I like to think in terms of taxes, so think about this: FW, having a great number of cultural and civic institutions has quite a bit of untaxable property.  Property that goes untaxed is in effect subsidized by the other taxpayers.  When non-residents get to enjoy these amenities/attractions, this activity is also subsidized by the residents.  We pay for the museums, but everyone gets to enjoy them.  Arlington has quite a few attractions itself, but they are different from ours.  They are for profit, on the tax rolls, and generate revenue for the city.

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True, FW does have a great number of properties off the tax roll, but this is equally as true for Arlington and most suburbs as well. It's all a matter of perception. If you look closer at Arlington, you will find that vast quantities of incorporated land is also off the tax rolls in the form of massive traffic arterials and needlessly supersized streets that are (un)designed in a way that maximizes their replacement costs and minimizes their efficiency over the years. Postwar suburbs, by which Arlington is defined by all accounts, are notorious for their extremely inefficient development, with often 30% of the incorporated area given over to traffic infrastructure. Within this 30%, many millions of square feet are effectively non-taxable in the form of private parking lots, which incur little tax revenue as compared to the stores/buildings that necessitate having them. Fort Worth's older urban and suburban core is much more efficient in its use of asphalt and leaving space for the public realm, a concept seemingly lost on many suburbanites. All things being equal, with FW's tax-exempt museums and parks and Arlington's exempt traffic arterials, which do you think brings in the most economic development and tourism dollars? :roflol:

#33 safly

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Posted 14 April 2005 - 12:07 PM

I can assure you guyz that if FW were to wheel and deal to pay down every cost associated with that darn Cowboy Stadium, and have it placed in NOW Arlington near the Ball Park, THAT THEY WOULD CONSIDER ANNEXATION.

Lobs! Present that case to the city of FW. I'll present the same argument to some ARL city guys I know.

Fort Worthington ?
FArlington?
FWA?

To dallas: We got Arlington , yes we do, we got Arlington , HOW BOUT YOU?
:D Alright, so that was a lil weak. Gotta munch on some freezer burned taquitos and packaged GUAC.

" Awoke from his sombrero nap!"-Lobs

HEY! I represent that buddy! -Safly :red:

Did he put a trip to Cancun on our dime? :roflol:
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#34 safly

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Posted 14 April 2005 - 12:09 PM

I like to think in terms of taxes, so think about this: FW, having a great number of cultural and civic institutions has quite a bit of untaxable property.  Property that goes untaxed is in effect subsidized by the other taxpayers.  When non-residents get to enjoy these amenities/attractions, this activity is also subsidized by the residents.  We pay for the museums, but everyone gets to enjoy them.  Arlington has quite a few attractions itself, but they are different from ours.  They are for profit, on the tax rolls, and generate revenue for the city.

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True, FW does have a great number of properties off the tax roll, but this is equally as true for Arlington and most suburbs as well. It's all a matter of perception. If you look closer at Arlington, you will find that vast quantities of incorporated land is also off the tax rolls in the form of massive traffic arterials and needlessly supersized streets that are (un)designed in a way that maximizes their replacement costs and minimizes their efficiency over the years. Postwar suburbs, by which Arlington is defined by all accounts, are notorious for their extremely inefficient development, with often 30% of the incorporated area given over to traffic infrastructure. Within this 30%, many millions of square feet are effectively non-taxable in the form of private parking lots, which incur little tax revenue as compared to the stores/buildings that necessitate having them......All things being equal, with FW's tax-exempt museums and parks and Arlington's exempt traffic arterials, which do you think brings in the most economic development and tourism dollars? :roflol:

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FW. For now. :red:
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#35 Biggins

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Posted 14 April 2005 - 01:04 PM

Another quick thing: while you could measure a city's greatness by its ability to generate profits at privatized attractions, I would venture to say that the best things about cities are often "free" to the public (i.e. subsidized by residents). By this, I mean taking strolls down the boulevards of Paris, through the bounded wilds of Central Park in Manhattan, up Michigan Avenue in Chicago, and, yes, even the Stockyards/Main St. district of Fort Worth. I would shudder to think that the age-old idea of "civic urbanity" has been tossed out in favor of a faceless corporate megalomania concerned only with the bottom line and not about the virtues that make up great cities. Just because "Ripley's Believe It or Not" might generate money for the tax rolls doesn't mean that it's a better civic amenity than the Kimball. :roflol:

#36 Sam Stone

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Posted 14 April 2005 - 02:28 PM

Biggins:
Excellent point about the streets and highways. Regarding ability to generate taxes, I of course didn't mean that cities are in all ways better off with more taxable properties. My point was that the residents of the big cities are often unwittingly more generous than the those in the burbs, that we are paying for our civic amenities, the folks from the burbs get to enjoy ours without paying for them and for us to enjoy theirs, we have to pay.

#37 Biggins

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Posted 14 April 2005 - 04:26 PM

Biggins:
Excellent point about the streets and highways.  Regarding ability to generate taxes, I of course didn't mean that cities are in all ways better off with more taxable properties.  My point was that the residents of the big cities are often unwittingly more generous than the those in the burbs, that we are paying for our civic amenities, the folks from the burbs get to enjoy ours without paying for them and for us to enjoy theirs, we have to pay.

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Thanks Sam! I see what you're saying now. It is a shame that the suburbs get to mooch off of our civic amenities (and our tax base, our diversity, etc...), but I would rest easy knowing that they're probably spending money somewhere in FW while they're here. Also know that Arlington's establishment as a home for the Cowboys is but another in a long list of band-aids in that particular suburb's search for it's own nonexistent urbanity. Think 20-30 years out from now: the Cowboys will likely move up to Sherman or Gainesville (scary) and Arlington will be stuck with an empty, rusting behemoth that would even make Sam Walton envious. But, I'll bet the Tarrant County Courthouse and the Kimball will still look as good as new! ;)

#38 normanfd

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Posted 15 April 2005 - 12:17 AM

normanfd, I have to disagree with you on a few points, as much as I despise the burbs.  There are quite a few people in Arlington who have been there a long time and will probably stay there a long time.  Some might call them the "powers that be."  They're probably in the minority, but I think they also exercise the most political clout.  And they like it the way it is.  But you're right about the tax/service thing.  Local government fragmentation has allowed residents of Arlington and the other burbs to fictitiously live outside of Dallas and FW when really they wouldn't be here at all if not for the two real cities. 

Granted, I used more than just a little hyperbole in my previous post, but I agree with you. Many of Arlington's "powers that be" have an unrealistic expectation of their city based upon what their city used to be instead of what it is now. Arlington is at a crossroads. What Arlington needs to do as a city to succeed as an inner ring suburb when all the big money is moving out to Frisco and Trophy Club is not what the city has inherently ever been about. The "powers that be" can't accept that this transformation, the need for Arlington to become more like its urban sister cities to the west and east, should ever take place. Meanwhile, most of its residents continue to save their money until the day they can afford Frisco and Trophy Club while refusing to engage themselves in Arlington politics since they have no long-term vested interest in the city.

#39 safly

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Posted 16 April 2005 - 12:11 AM

If I were a city councilman or a developer, i could care less about residence saving money for the long term move to Frisco or TClub. It is what I would have to do, to bring in a NEW Wave of folks or REVENUE to A-Town. Looking ahead for FRESH revenue streams is PARAMOUNT. It is what A-Town can ONLY do for now. Hence, the vision of new condo's and shops encircling that 2 ring circus of a sports complex soon to be underway. Being land locked and squeezed in TIGHT by two bullish monsters, there is only way to play the game and get your pickins. WORD!
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#40 Buck

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Posted 17 April 2005 - 11:31 AM

Fort Worth got more publicity from the Breeders Cup than Dallas.

The pre-event parties were at the Zoo and Billy Bob's.

I doubt Jerry Jones would give us all the Super Bowl events, but we have a shot.

#41 safly

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Posted 17 April 2005 - 03:42 PM

Fort Worth got more publicity from the Breeders Cup than Dallas.

The pre-event parties were at the Zoo and Billy Bob's.

I doubt Jerry Jones would give us all the Super Bowl events, but we have a shot.

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JJ has nothing to do with it. It's the NFL's party to plan. We present our case to the NFL that FW is destined for greatness with an NFL team in OUR county.
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#42 lobster

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Posted 17 April 2005 - 03:50 PM

I doubt Jerry Jones would give us all the Super Bowl events, but we have a shot.

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Although he is the ringleader of all things Cowboys, I don't think it's Mista Jones' call necessarily.. parties and events will be all over the place, and you can bet FW will organize some good ones.. That's why if the hype starts early enough, the NFL might take notice

#43 safly

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Posted 17 April 2005 - 03:54 PM

I doubt Jerry Jones would give us all the Super Bowl events, but we have a shot.

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Although he is the ringleader of all things Cowboys, I don't think it's Mista Jones' call necessarily.. parties and events will be all over the place, and you can bet FW will organize some good ones.. That's why if the hype starts early enough, the NFL might take notice

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I can get a camera crew ready stat. Let's roll film. I know "family" in the news media business up here. All about MARKETING your case to spend the SAME money for MORE in these parts. The Forum can showcase a superb MMedia presentation to the "players" of this event, get some backing.
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#44 DrkLts

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Posted 18 April 2005 - 10:23 PM

think about it, if fort worth wants to promote this city during a superbowl, you can bet your whole life savings it will be the whole "CoWtOwN" thing all the way. was anyone aware about the NYC visit to promote this city and its two nascar race dates this year? some nascar vehicles and a heard of longhorns on times square. gee, I pass on any HEEHAA promos of this city. i rather we stay in away from the spotlight in this case :D

#45 john3628

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Posted 18 April 2005 - 10:59 PM

Seeing how Fort Worth really doesn't back the whole "COWTOWN" theme the best that they could, I think they would really miss out on a GREAT amount of tourism. I'm sure all would agree that Fort Worth needs to add on to its NIGHTLIFE aswell. :D

#46 safly

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Posted 20 April 2005 - 06:23 PM

Seeing how Fort Worth really doesn't back the whole "COWTOWN" theme the best that they could, I think they would really miss out on a GREAT amount of tourism.  I'm sure all would agree that Fort Worth needs to add on to its NIGHTLIFE aswell.  :devil:

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which is why I keep telling you all to visit SA or Austin at least 3 times a year. Take in the nightlife here, come see how events are ran and pushed to all visitors who want toplay. Nightlife is key in keeping dollar$$$ in FW. It's not even close yet, but perhaps this forum can make a true difference, like ambassadors of this city, searching for a more defined nightlife venue in this town. :huh: Taking a little from here and there along the way. All those well traveled want in? Let' get serious about promoting this town through the FW Forum filter, create an LLC or non-charity and have fun!
Herding cattle and riding on Chuckwagons will not get the attention of Madison Ave., there is a reason NYc looks remotely different from ye old West. <_<


gotta go FIESTA, Adios.

(and I don't mean the grocery store.)
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#47 apearson28

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Posted 22 April 2005 - 09:41 AM

We've got more of the letters in DFW!  :rolleyes:

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(I once heard Mark Davis say Stadii .. is that correct?)


i believe its stadia. i might be wrong

#48 cjyoung

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Posted 30 May 2005 - 12:52 PM

Seeing how Fort Worth really doesn't back the whole "COWTOWN" theme the best that they could, I think they would really miss out on a GREAT amount of tourism.  I'm sure all would agree that Fort Worth needs to add on to its NIGHTLIFE aswell.   :smwink:

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which is why I keep telling you all to visit SA or Austin at least 3 times a year. Take in the nightlife here, come see how events are ran and pushed to all visitors who want toplay. Nightlife is key in keeping dollar$$$ in FW. It's not even close yet, but perhaps this forum can make a true difference, like ambassadors of this city, searching for a more defined nightlife venue in this town. ;) Taking a little from here and there along the way. All those well traveled want in? Let' get serious about promoting this town through the FW Forum filter, create an LLC or non-charity and have fun!
Herding cattle and riding on Chuckwagons will not get the attention of Madison Ave., there is a reason NYc looks remotely different from ye old West. :smwink:


gotta go FIESTA, Adios.

(and I don't mean the grocery store.)

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This is true. Go Spurs! :D

#49 Willy1

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Posted 21 June 2005 - 12:21 PM

Did anyone see the news story about the development surrounding the new Cowboy's Stadium in Arlington? THey're proposing to build a scaled down version of NYC's Times Square around the stadium... and it's literally going to give Arlington a skyline when they build it. They're talking about high rise office, retail and residential developments... This stadium/team is going to put Arlington on the map. And FW isn't going to profit from this much at all.

First of all, we're fools if we think that Dallas isn't going to use the advantage they have - the team namesake. They will always be the Dallas Cowboys. They're never going to be the FW Cowboys or the Arlington Cowboys so we can just forget that. And, Dallas will get a lot of the "spin off" parties surrounding the SB... They have the higher-end retail, hotels, and dining that FW simply doesn't have. They have a more refined and high-end feel. Downtown FW is a jewel, but we don't have the hotel space needed for hosting a super bowl, and with the stadium being in Arlington, we can't justify building facilities just because repeated superbowls will be in Arlington (not FW). The majority of in-coming tourist who come here for the SB, will want to stay in Dallas - because that's where the major parties are going to be.

Second, Arlington has no loyalty to FW - if anything they have resentment toward both Dallas and FW for always looking down their respective noses at Arlington. This is going to be Arlington's revenge for always being considered a third class suburb in the DFW. (At one point they pushed to have it called DAFW) They're the city that had the initiative and foresight to go grab the most valuable sports franchise on Earth and do whatever it takes to get them to relocate to Arlington. FW is not going to share in that wealth - Arlington and Dallas will make sure of that.

Third, Arlington mayb be FW's "ugly step kid" now, but in a few years Arlington could very easly be saying that about FW... Arlington has done a lot of catching up with FW when it comes to population. Landing the Cowboys could be the thing that finally catapults Arlington out of Suburb status and into the Major City league.

I hate to break it to y'all, but the only thing FW will probably gain from this is the satisfaction of having the Cowboys will be in Tarrant County - I'd even be willing to be that most of the players choose to live in Dallas. Of course, we'll now have to deal with the traffic along i-30 that comes with having the new stadium in Arlington.... Our infrastructure isn't ready to handle that sort of traffic.

#50 cjyoung

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Posted 21 June 2005 - 01:24 PM

I hate to break it to y'all, but the only thing FW will probably gain from this is the satisfaction of having the Cowboys will be in Tarrant County - I'd even be willing to be that most of the players choose to live in Dallas. Of course, we'll now have to deal with the traffic along i-30 that comes with having the new stadium in Arlington.... Our infrastructure isn't ready to handle that sort of traffic.

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We need to get out of the Tarrant County mindset that everyone is pushing and understand that Arlington and Greater NE TC are our competitors. :D

I would never get satisfaction that the dallas cowgirls are in Arlington, because I hate the cowgirls! Many of the players already live in Las Colinas, Southlake, Colleyville, Grapevine and Arlington, so I don't doubt that you would see more moving to Arlington or even east Fort Worth, if the team's practice facility is located in Arlington.

I wish the cowgirls 100 years without a single Super Bowl appearance. :blink:




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