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Westcliff Shopping Center


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#51 John T Roberts

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Posted 21 December 2015 - 09:08 PM

Bill Sievers, there's no need to scan the image.  There is a high resolution version available from the UTA Library.  Here's the link:

 

http://library.uta.e...67e81f8ae8f.jpg

 

If it comes in fitting the screen, click on the photo to enlarge it.



#52 Bill Sievers

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Posted 23 December 2015 - 07:34 PM

Thanks for this link John!  This high resolution picture makes all the difference in the world for clarity.  I can now zero in on my old house on Biddison and see much more detail.  Brings back a lot of memories.  I didn't realize that's what the land looked like prior to the development of the old Fair Dept Store and Wyatt's Food Store.  When I arrived in FTW in 1955, those structures were already well underway.  The theatre at that time was almost all torn down except for the attached retail store space on the east side of the theatre building itself.  Bob Bolen's dad, the jeweler, had his store in that part of the building before he moved a short time later into Bob's toy store (the Toy Palace).  It seems like there was also another office or store of some sort in that part of the building. 

 

From what I see in the picture, the theatre's entrance was apparently from the south side of the building which I didn't realize.  At least that's what I'm assuming from the planform of the building and the feature on the southwest corner of the roof.  It looks like there may have been a spire of some sort on top for decoration.

 

Back in its day, the Westcliff Shopping Center was a major hub of activity in that area, even beating out Bluebonnet Circle in my opinion.

 

Do you know of any other historical pictures of the Westcliff Center?

 

Thanks,

Bill Sievers

Natick, Mass.



#53 John T Roberts

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Posted 23 December 2015 - 08:59 PM

Bill, I saw another one this week.  Even before I saw the aerials of the center, I knew the theater faced south.  That may have been from my exploring of Those are looking straight down.  The photograph that I saw this week was taken from the north side of the gas station, looking toward the Worth Food Market.  The theater was on the far left side of the photo, in the distance.  It did have a tower on the southwest corner of the building.  I would explore the UTA Library Website more thoroughly, you might find some aerials looking north.  I wish I could help you more, but I was born in 1957, so the only memories that I have are the old Wyatt's Grocery Store and vaguely, The Fair on the west side.  I have better memories of shopping at Monnig's when we didn't go downtown.



#54 Bill Sievers

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Posted 24 December 2015 - 05:46 AM

Ok John.  Thanks for the tip on the UTA Library website.  I will have to check that out.  It sounds interesting.

 

I suspected the entrance to the theatre was from the south as you confirmed.  After looking at the picture in more detail, I'm guessing it was taken earlier than 1954, but that's just a hunch.

 

Yeah, I too have memories of going downtown with my mom back in the mid-'50's and seeing all the dept. stores.  That was really exciting back then for an 8-year old!  The highlight of any downtown trip was waiting at the bus stop inside Leonard's Dept. Store and getting a bagful of jelly donuts.  I've never had jelly donuts as good as those since.  That's probably more wishful thinking than reality though!

 

One thing I remember when walking around downtown was there was always a guy with a camera who would take your picture as you walked along the sidewalk.  He'd then hand you a small card where apparently you could send off and get a copy of the picture he just took, for a fee of course.  It was a novel idea back then, but unfortunately I never availed myself of one of those pictures.  I certainly wish now I had done that!

 

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all those on the forum.

 

Bill Sievers

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#55 lcbrownz

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Posted 30 December 2015 - 04:51 PM

I have photos of the Westcliff Shopping Center when it was new. Worth Food Market and Mott's were there.



#56 txbornviking

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Posted 06 February 2018 - 04:32 PM

I couldn't find a thread for Bluebonnet Circle, but this seems interesting. http://www.the109.or...ebonnet-circle/

I'd not seen this anywhere else. Clearly I missed something.

 

Thoughts?

 

http://the109.org/wp...utput_2882.jpeg



#57 Doohickie

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Posted 06 February 2018 - 04:51 PM

It sounds like ol' Parker Daniel has a victim mentality.


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#58 horticultor51

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Posted 04 April 2018 - 08:33 PM

Bailey and everyone,

Thanks for the great corrections and clear recollections!

Several stand out:

(1) The hardware store -- how could I forget? I was in there often with my Dad.

(2) As you mentioned, the food store was a Wyatt's (not a Buddy's or A&P). I worked across the parking lot as a sacker at the Piggly Wiggly. That was in 1970-1971.

(3) I remember the listening booths at the record store.

(4) I can't quite recall the cafeteria, but it rings a bell. Did Colonial have a cafeteria there?

(5) Moreland's Rexall Drugstore did have great food.

Thanks again!

The name of the cafeteria was the Chanticleer. Never heard that name since. I don't remember the quality of the food, but it was a fun place to go.

#59 horticultor51

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Posted 04 April 2018 - 08:38 PM

Two additional memories of Westcliff Center:

The Fort Worth Public Library bookmobile went there every week. My dad took me almost every week the entire time we lived in Wedgwood.

Also, the only thing I ever won in a drawing was a slot car racing kit I registered for in the Fair store there.

#60 John T Roberts

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Posted 04 April 2018 - 08:56 PM

I still shop at Albertson's and Jabo's Ace Hardware.



#61 Doohickie

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Posted 05 April 2018 - 07:05 AM

I still shop at Albertson's and Jabo's Ace Hardware.

 

That's now my closest major supermarket and hardware store.  (But the Savers Cost Plus on Seminary at Lubbock is cheaper and more interesting.)


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#62 John T Roberts

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Posted 05 April 2018 - 10:49 AM

I have dashed into Savers Cost Plus a few times when I have needed something quick and I didn't want to deal with a big store.  It was originally built as a Safeway.



#63 Doohickie

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Posted 05 April 2018 - 11:50 AM

It's amazing how much grocery stores have evolved.  You can see it by going into Cost Plus.  Some is good, some is bad.  Cost Plus produce section looks like a farmers market but the aisles are tiny.


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#64 Doohickie

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 07:08 PM

I saw this on Nextdoor:

 

Westcliff Shopping Center - Project Information 8/8/18

Release 2018-08-08: Change is on the horizon for Westcliff Shopping Center. This is what we know from the preliminary meeting held on August 2. The Shopping Center is under contract (to be purchased) by Panteras Development Partners (A group of individuals with ties to Fort Worth and our immediate neighborhoods). The purpose of the meeting was two-fold: 1) To allow the development partners to explain their vision for the project and articulate the need for a zoning change, and 2) to inform a group of neighborhood leaders about the project so neighbors are equipped with facts and are able to respond to questions from neighbors. We are planning a larger public meeting in the coming weeks. Our city council representative strongly encouraged the development partners to meet with neighbors to get feedback and help shape the change that is coming. The proposal is for a top quality Independent Living / Assisted Living facility (not a facility for skilled care nursing or memory care) in a park-like setting with grocery store and some retail/restaurant options. This project is in the first week or two of existence, there are a lot of details to come and we are certain there are many questions to ask and even more answers to come. We encourage all neighbors and nearby neighborhoods to please attend future meetings as often as possible. There was a broad representation of neighbors at the preliminary meeting that can assist with answering questions. There will be a larger public meeting coming soon. No zoning recommendation has been made to the city at this time. Please check the Events section of Nextdoor and Facebook (https://www.facebook...tcliffneighbors) for meeting announcements. If you would like to be included in an e-mail distribution list related to this topic please send an email to westcliffneighbors@gmail.com stating so. UPDATE: The partners will not be at the August 13 General Neighborhood Meeting for Westcliff and Westcliff West as was originally suggested. We will call a special meeting when Panteras Development Partners have some site plans to share.

 

(Emphasis mine)

 

It's worth it to click the Nextdoor link at the top to see the comments on the post.  Apparently these are the same people behind the Westchester Plaza demolition.  They say the want to put in a senior living center, but the comments state they want the hardware store and Cafe Bella gone, and they think after getting zoning changed to residential they will bait and switch it to TCU housing (or so the comments speculate).


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#65 JBB

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 07:39 PM

FYI you cant see Nextdoor posts unless youre part of a connected neighborhood.

This seems like a huge long shot. I bet opposition will be through the roof.

#66 John T Roberts

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 07:46 PM

Knowing the neighborhood, I'm very confident the opposition will be through the roof.  I would really hate to see the Jabo's Ace Hardware and Cafe Bella go.



#67 renamerusk

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 07:58 PM

I hope you guys are wrong about the opposition. High quality gated assisted living community are in great demand and should be welcome by families needing a place nearby for their elderly family member to live.



#68 FunkyTownTay

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 08:38 PM

I would hate to see Ace Hardware go. Does anyone know what the large, nondescript building next to Albertson's is?



#69 renamerusk

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 09:48 PM

This sounds innovative; keeping (a) grocery store and retail as part of the assisted living community (ALC) so that the residents can walk to shopping and dining. It is possible that there could be a protected entry in the retail and grocery store for access to the ALC.

 

There are ways to make ALCs blend into a neighborhood without much notice.



#70 Doohickie

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 10:43 PM

I hope you guys wrong about the opposition. High quality gated assisted living community are in great demand and should be welcome by families needing a place nearby for their elderly family member to live.

 

But these are the same people that leveled Westchester Plaza.  The thought is that they are using the assisted living angle to get the zoning changed, then will build TCU apartments.

 

From the comments below:

It would be very easy for the developers to turn the assisted living complex into TCU apartments if rezoning is approved...

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#71 Doohickie

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 11:01 PM

FYI you cant see Nextdoor posts unless youre part of a connected neighborhood.

This seems like a huge long shot. I bet opposition will be through the roof.

 

Here's what it looks like so far.  I redacted names to first name and last initial.

 

Anne S, Overton Park·11h ago

Are we losing our hardware store?
 

Bill L, Westcliff & Westcliff West·11h ago

Everyone needs to look up The Westchester Plaza downtown. Alex and Jeff Bryant are the people who want to do this project. Highly unprofessional. They want Café Bella and Ace hardware store to leave because it is a “waste of space”.
 

Carole C, Westcliff & Westcliff West·11h ago

Strange timing since they just revamped that center with new paint , new landscaping. Businesses have revamped inside also; Ace, Dr Cass, Albertsons. Will they just turn around and knock it all down now?
 

Liz P, Bluebonnet Hills·11h ago

Ugh!!!
 

Martha J, Bluebonnet Hills·10h ago

Be aware to do this they need to change zoning to a PD to add residential.
 

Davie and Karen S, Westcliff & Westcliff West·Edited 10h ago

That’s exactly what we heard too Bill. Not who we want to revamp our center! Not very trustworthy either! Very frustrating!
 

Suzi M, Bluebonnet Hills·10h ago

What will happen to all the businesses there? Dian West, Dr. Carol Cass, the gym, Westcliff Hardware, and all the rest? This sounds terrible to me!!
 

David and Karen S, Westcliff & Westcliff West·10h ago

Will there still be a meeting on August 13th? Just without their representatives, or is the whole meeting pushed back . . . ?
 

Martha J, Bluebonnet Hills·10h ago

We CAN fight this if the neighborhood does not want this. While developers will tell you that something else worse can come in it does not mean it will happen. But we have to be fair, to listen and to explore options. Personal attacks on anyone, neighbor or developer will hurt our cause.
 

Carole C, Westcliff & Westcliff West·10h ago

It's better than TCU apartments but I'd rather keep our local businesses. Dr Cass is my vet of over 20 years, I have a membership at Jody's gym. I frequent Ace hardware and the Dollar Store. I eat at Bella's. I used to go to George's for car repair before they lost their lease. I on occasion shop at Albertsons. Not liking this possibility too much if they are kicking out all of these places
 

Loren B, Westcliff & Westcliff West·10h ago

The Neighborhood Meeting on August 13 remains as scheduled. Academy 4 will be our special presentation.
 

Harold R, South Hills·10h ago

I think it would a good idea to know a few facts before rising up in arms about what might happen.
 

Bill L, Westcliff & Westcliff West·10h ago

It would be very easy for the developers to turn the assisted living complex into TCU apartments if rezoning is approved...
 

Bill L, Westcliff & Westcliff West·10h ago

Jeff G, South Hills·8h ago

I think Bill may very well be right. If these are the same guys that owned the company that owned Westchester, they have no business opening another assisted living facility, much less in Westcliff Shopping Center. The neighborhood didn’t come together in time to stop the student housing next to Westcliff. Hopefully they can come together and prevent the rezoning of the shopping center.
 

Lu T, Westcliff & Westcliff West·8h ago

Bill, thank you so much for the link to those articles! It was good to find out who these developers are. Their past track record does NOT favorably impress me at all. Also, I agree with you that it would be very easy to turn the assisted living complex into TCU apartments if rezoning is approved. Or, for operators of an assisted living complex to decide to no longer operate the property as such and then have it turned into TCU apartments in the future. And how do we know what might happen if the loan for this property were to be defaulted on in the future? Neighbors, please DO NOT let these developers influence you by trying to tug at your heartstrings by claiming the property will be used as housing for the elderly. Read these articles and see how the elderly living at Westchester were treated. I'm VERY interested in hearing more from the public meetings. Personally, I prefer to protect our shopping center and the people who operate businesses there who have become our friends and neighbors.
 

Scott T, Westcliff & Westcliff West·7h ago

This is becoming very suspicious. So the company under contract is Panteras Development Partners. This company has filed for an LLC on 04/24/2018. https://www.bizapedi...rtners-llc.html It can also be found https://mycpa.cpa.state.tx.us/coa/ with file number 0802996930. The agent that filed for the LLC is JAKE PROCTOR. Here is Jake's Facebook page. https://www.facebook...jake.proctor.52 His 'Favorites' includes TCU off Campus Student Housing and Fort Capital. He is the VP of Acquisitions at Fort Capital. https://www.linkedin...roctor-17956027 Here is some of the work that Fort Capital does... https://fortcapitall...tudent-housing/ That second picture looks like the student housing across from Westcliff. It really appears they are in the market for more student housing. It looks like Panteras Development Partners is an LLC doing business as Fort Capital through Jake Proctor.
 

Bill L, Westcliff & Westcliff West·6h ago

Wow this is worse than I thought. Also, somehow my post about this whole issue was suspiciously deleted...
 

Brent A, Westcliff & Westcliff West·6h ago

Fort Capital are the same folks who built the butt-ugly Russian factory housing across from the shopping center. I find it suspicious that the “URGENT,” post about this was pulled within hours, but the post asking folks to share prescription medication was left up for days.
 

Lu T, Westcliff & Westcliff West·6h ago

Brent A, Westcliff & Westcliff West·Edited 6h ago

It’s worth noting the sequence of events also. Fort Capital builds the triplexes at Carolyn and South Hills, that are different from the original proposed design on their development sign. The neighborhood votes for a zoning change to prevent more “mini-dorms,” being built. One of Fort’s executives forms a new company and moves to buy the shopping center with plans for an old folks home, that uses the same zoning as student apartments.
 

Kathleen R, Foster Park·5h ago

Thank you for the facts, Scott. Mr. Proctor was featured in articles regarding a stealth dorm on Rogers Road, 2500 or 2600 block. Lovely neighborhood, and it was very upsetting to the neighbors (leading to the articles)... I grew up in the neighborhood surrounded by TCU professors and employees. It was ideal, just as Westcliff Shopping Center is an ideal neighborhood destination. We do need nice senior housing, but there are locations that would not demolish such a vibrant part of a long-established neighborhood. FW residents' quality of life should be a higher priority than developers. Just my humble opinion.
 
Lu T, Westcliff & Westcliff West·5h ago
Interesting article about Fort Capital and 'Urban Residential Zoning". Fort Capital was involved in the transformation of the Linwood neighborhood near So7. I DO NOT want our neighborhood to become anything like So7! https://www.bisnow.c...e-linwood-70956 February 13, 2017 Julia Bunch, Bisnow Dallas/Fort Worth If you have driven around the West 7th district of Fort Worth lately, you have probably noticed a lot of construction in the residential neighborhood just north of the cultural district. A new zoning designation called Urban Residential could spur several other Fort Worth neighborhoods to follow the redevelopment happening in Linwood. Urban Residential has only been in effect for a couple of years, so the first products of UR have just recently delivered. Eventually, many UR products will surround the city’s 16 "urban villages." The city designates urban villages for small geographic areas of dense mixed-use, such as Magnolia, Near East Side and (you can see where this is going) West 7th. UR allows developers to build denser and with more architectural flexibility. Some parameters, such as rear parking, are more constraining. Northern Realty Group owner Will Northern, who is on the Fort Worth Zoning Commission, said this designation is perfect for areas caught in the middle of commercial development and single-family residential. The Fort Worth-based investment firm Fort Capital has also been involved in the transformation of Linwood, and has interest in the River District, the Foundry District and other neighborhoods that will use UR to build dense residential. With values skyrocketing in a short period of time, talk of gentrification brings unhappy residents to the forefront of the conversation. Phillip Poole is the lead development executive at Townsite Co., which is located within Linwood. “There’s always the issue of displacing people when you develop like this,” he said. “But everyone in Linwood has been able to sell their houses for strong returns, and many decided to age in place and not move.” Poole said Townsite and other involved parties have worked with some residents who have chosen not to move or sell their homes. As residents keep selling and get more money for their properties, the homeowners who want to stay become the minority, Landry said. “Linwood has a really involved residential voice, but the influence changes when enough people sell their land.” Landry said UR is still evolving. As the zoning comes into conflict with neighborhood ordinances, the city is working to more seamlessly integrate the two. The city recognizes that the development process needs to be as predictable as possible for builders, he said.
 

Elizabeth P, Westcliff & Westcliff West·5h ago

Who is our city council representative? There is no money in a old folks facility in this area. The money is in TCU housing. The precedent has already been made with the two ugly apartments. They just want to deceive people and get the property. Is there any way to make sure the zoning does not change
 

Jeff G, South Hills·5h ago

Ann Zadeh is our Councilwoman. Yes, the neighborhoods surrounding Westcliff Shopping Center, and those that use it, can organize through their neighborhood associations, contact Ann Zadeh, show up at City Council and City Zoning meeting and oppose rezoning.
 

Lu T, Westcliff & Westcliff West·4h ago

Jeff, I believe Dr. Brian Byrd is the city councilman for the area Westcliff Shopping Center is in.
 

Jeff G, South Hills·4h ago

10-4. Even better. Two on City Council with concerned and upset residents. Should make it easier to prevent rezoning with two councilpersons supporting their districts opposition.
 

Angela C, Bluebonnet Hills·3h agoJake Proctor, Chris Powers, Fort Capital... are the major players that we came to an "agreement" with in the TCU overlay 'resolution'. This is just a sidestep to continue to develop our area in a way that makes them the most money.

 

Dorothy S, Royale Orleans·3h ago

Call Brian Byrd now let him ck the bad deal now!!!

Martha J, Bluebonnet Hills·Edited 1h ago

Reading all the posts it is evident that at least the people here do not want residential allowed on the Westcliff Shopping Center. The solution for that is to fight a zoning change. Please be aware that the people you are talking about are reading these posts. BBH fought an apartment complex from being built on University Drive because it was an inappropriate land use for that location. Westcliff is zoned E Commercial which allows a nursing home, or assisted living without changing zoning. The zoning change requested will be to add residential. Everyone must attend meetings and hear what developers are proposing. To be effective we have to listen and learn about the project. We don’t have facts, site plans or anything. We have to show our council members we were willing to listen and compromise and if after doing that we feel residential in that location is not right for our neighborhood or the project will damage the integrity of the neighborhood then we take a formal stand and fight for no change. I feel certain many neighborhoods will come together on this. I was on the TCU overlay committee, and I am presently on the Multi Use Zoning Advisory Group. We are currently looking at zoning and UR will be in the near future. Regardless of how I personally feel about those involved with this project I am willing to sit down and listen, but I want a formal site plan and FACTS. Have not seen any of those yet. Past experience can predict future behavior so many of us are very leery of this development group. And because this center is in the heart of a residential neighborhood and close to TCU we have to weigh very carefully before supporting any zoning change to residential to protect our neighborhood from losing what makes it a great place to live. Contempt without investigation is not a good way to approach this.
 

Lu T, Westcliff & Westcliff West·50m ago

Yes Martha, I am aware that the people we are talking about are reading these posts - also people who would be willing to sell out their neighbors and neighborhood for money are reading them too. Thank you for the work you have done with the TCU overlay committee and other projects. The neighborhoods who want to preserve the integrity of the Westcliff neighborhood must present a united front on this. I am looking forward to the public meetings to come. And we are investigating this, the internet is a very useful tool for that, among other tools.

Patrick P, Overton Park·49m ago

Good evening, I am the Managing Director of Multifamily at Fort Capital and a resident of Overton Park. In fact I grew up in Overton Park, attended TCU, and moved back to my favorite neighborhood in Fort Worth. I can assure you that Fort Capital has no affiliation with Panteras and their proposed Westcliff Shopping Center redevelopment. Jake Proctor left Fort Capital in 2016 and has been operating independent of Fort Capital since his departure. Please feel free to reach out directly if you have any questions on the matter.

 

Bill L, Westcliff & Westcliff West·Edited 14m ago

That must mean Jake Proctor runs Panteras and has a suspicious connection with the Bryants... I found this article that shows that Proctor doesn't have a clean bill either and exactly matches the suspicions we were earlier talking about. https://www.star-tel...e150645462.html

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#72 Thurman52

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 07:05 AM

Same group was trying to buy the land behind the synagogue on Hulen that the FWISD wants for 2nd Tanglewood

#73 Doohickie

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 07:11 AM

The comments seem pretty alarmist, but that doesn't necessarily mean they're unwarranted.


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#74 JBB

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 08:47 AM

I'm always alarmed when it takes something like this for someone to ask, "who is our city council representative?", and it doesn't seem easy to get an answer. Fort Worth has single member districts. It ought to be easy to remember if people actually voted.

One question that comes to mind for me and maybe I could get an answer if I read all of those replies instead of skimming them, but what's so bad about the people involved in Westchester? If it was the owner that let it fall into such bad shape, I get it. If it's the current owner, I don't think they had much of a choice but to shutter it.



#75 Doohickie

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 09:34 AM

I think the whole point is that they took an assisted care place, kicked all the people out and leveled it.  I don't know too much about whether that was a good thing or not, but it was certainly difficult for the displaced people.  So what they took from that is that this group is not a good group for assisted living centers, and further that the experience with Westchester Plaza shows that they can't be trusted to implement and run an assisted living center.  However, the zoning for their stated project would also allow use as apartments so people are worried about them building TCU apartments in the middle of the neighborhood and bulldozing their restaurants and hardware store and who knows what else.

 

Apparently there's some tie between the two really ugly buildings recently completed on the south side of South Hills Drive at Carolyn and this group (not the same company, but the same people).

 

Bottom line:  The people in the neighborhood like the shopping center as is, and don't want some developer to be able to significantly change it.  The only way they can significantly change it is with the zoning change, so there will be very vocal opposition to the zoning change.


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#76 John T Roberts

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 09:42 AM

I am going to need the time to go back and read all of the comments, but I will take the time to answer FunkyTownTay's question.  The large non-descript building next to Albertson's on the south is the old Fair Department Store, which was built as a later phase of the Westcliff Shopping Center.  Monnig's bought them out in the 1960's and converted the store to their brand.  Monnig's closed that location in the late 1980's/early 1990's when the store was going under.  The Westcliff Center then leased the space to Cook Children's Hospital, and they have used it for office space ever since.



#77 JBB

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 09:47 AM

I was just curious about the Westchester issue because the owner that let it fall into such bad shape and the owner that tore it down were not the same (unless my memory is really bad).  It's pretty likely that the owner that demolished the building would have had to relocate the residents even if they had remodeled and brought the facility up to standard. 

 

I think that this is a monumental uphill battle.  I'll be shocked if it happens.  Other than the fact that a couple of people in the Nextdoor thread can't figure out who their council person is, this is a group that has always been highly organized and, right or wrong, I don't doubt their ability to put a stop to this for even a second.  I can't say I wouldn't feel the same way if I lived nearby.  The center as it stands now is a relic of a by-gone era and adds to the uniqueness of the neighborhood.



#78 Doohickie

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 09:52 AM

The residents can probably stop the zoning change, but if the owner is determined he could fail to renew leases for existing tenants, empty the place out, then revisit the zoning change.  Given the choice between a modern assisted living center (or even TCU apartments) and an empty, decaying center, the residents will eventually crumble if the developer is willing to play a long game.  It sucks, but that's capitalism for ya.


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#79 JBB

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 09:54 AM

The Nextdoor comments seem to indicate that they can already clear out the shopping center and replace it with an assisted living or nursing facility without the zoning change.



#80 Doohickie

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 10:02 AM

That's not the way I read it... It's not currently zoned for any kind of residential use.


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#81 JBB

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 10:10 AM

From one of the comments above:

"Westcliff is zoned E Commercial which allows a nursing home, or assisted living without changing zoning. The zoning change requested will be to add residential."

I assume that to mean that a self contained facility is allowable under the commercial zoning. The apartment like facility would need the residential change.

#82 Doohickie

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 10:55 AM

I missed that one.

 

That just feeds the general hysteria then.... why do they need to change the zoning..... unless they want to build TCU apartments?  :angry:


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#83 JBB

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 10:58 AM

If you assume that a bait-and-switch is not in play and that their intentions are genuine, they've determined that apartment style senior living is more lucrative than a self-contained.  But that's a big assumption.



#84 renamerusk

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 11:04 AM

What is so offensive about an assisted living community?  ALC are not high crime communities; are not loud or junky.

Done properly, projects of this nature do not harm property values.

 

I agree with the comments by this South Hills resident:

 

"I think it would a good idea to know a few facts before rising up in arms about what might happen". - Harold R.
 


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Posted 09 August 2018 - 11:09 AM

I gather that it's not so much the assisted living community as much as it is losing part of the shopping center and the zoning change leaving open the possibility of the apartments being converted to typical multi-family.  I agree that waiting on the facts is the better option, but I get their skepticism.  There's a big difference between traditional apartments and an assisted living complex.



#86 renamerusk

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 11:17 AM

Skepticism is headed for a real dose of reality.

 

Demographics are trending to a population that is aging, living longer and desiring more independence than a traditional nursing home.  More and more of this kind of housing is needed; I would not worry about more apartments in neighborhoods without the buzz of Downtown/Near South/7th Street Corridors.



#87 Doohickie

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 11:20 AM

 

What is so offensive about an assisted living community?  ALC are not high crime communities; are not loud or junky.

Done properly, projects of this nature do not harm property values.

 

I agree with the comments by this South Hills resident:

 

"I think it would a good idea to know a few facts before rising up in arms about what might happen". - Harold R.

 

On the other hand, keeping the status quo is better than letting a developer sneak something through using a bait-and-switch.


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#88 roverone

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 12:10 PM

Since we all like to look at things how they were before, I highlighted the center on some older picture.  I'm not exactly sure how to attribute these, but I'd expect that they came from the collection at UTA.  I put them up a little bigger so you can make out the details:

 

D3THNL.jpglW6FmP.jpgNWHUCS.jpgHz73bY.jpgrhFy0D.jpg



#89 John T Roberts

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 12:50 PM

The proper way to attribute the photographs is either UTA Library Special Collections or UTA Libraries Digital Galleries.

 

Westcliff Shopping Center was built in phases, which you can tell from those aerials. 



#90 renamerusk

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 01:15 PM

On the other hand, keeping the status quo is better than letting a developer sneak something through using a bait-and-switch.

 

 Okay, I have not given close enough attention to how this is the bait-and-switch that you are alluding to; so where is it being inferred?



#91 Doohickie

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 01:32 PM

 

On the other hand, keeping the status quo is better than letting a developer sneak something through using a bait-and-switch.

 
 Okay, I have not give attention closely enough to see the bait-and-switch that you are alluding to; so where is it being inferred?

 

 
Here's one post that discusses it...
 

Lu T, Westcliff & Westcliff West·8h ago

Bill, thank you so much for the link to those articles! It was good to find out who these developers are. Their past track record does NOT favorably impress me at all. Also, I agree with you that it would be very easy to turn the assisted living complex into TCU apartments if rezoning is approved. Or, for operators of an assisted living complex to decide to no longer operate the property as such and then have it turned into TCU apartments in the future. And how do we know what might happen if the loan for this property were to be defaulted on in the future? Neighbors, please DO NOT let these developers influence you by trying to tug at your heartstrings by claiming the property will be used as housing for the elderly. Read these articles and see how the elderly living at Westchester were treated. I'm VERY interested in hearing more from the public meetings. Personally, I prefer to protect our shopping center and the people who operate businesses there who have become our friends and neighbors.


My feeling is that I just don't think you can know what the developers really plan to do, despite what they say, and their past track record makes the neighbors skeptical.  They may be on the up-and-up regarding the senior housing.  But even then, there is a high likelihood that Westcliff Center will be substantially altered, such as losing the hardware store.  But once the zoning change is pushed through, there really will be nothing the neighbors will be able to do to stop them from building TCU apartments.  The neighbors are already on high alert after the two ugly buildings were put up at Carolyn and South Hills.  They don't want the whole shopping center to be compromised like that.

 

I have a minor stake in this; I live the next neighborhood over in South Hills.  I occasionally shop at the Albertson's and Jabo's Hardware.  I would be disappointed if the shopping center became something else.  So I'm sympathetic with the neighbors who are concerned.  But even if they stop the zoning change, the owners of the shopping center can do things that would make it difficult for the neighbors to *not* agree to change the zoning.  If they're playing a long game, they could empty the shopping center out by not renewing leases, and then the center would sit there and rot.  If the options were letting it continue to rot or to redevelop it, eventually the neighbors would relent. 

 

There are a lot of negative outcomes that could come about in this situation, and it seems almost assured that the center would lose some of its retail and the neighborhood would be substantially altered.  It's potentially a tough situation.

 

This is viewed by the neighborhood in much the same way that small towns would view Wal-Mart wanting to come in and level their vibrant Main Street district to build a Supercenter.


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#92 renamerusk

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 01:57 PM

The likelihood of this becoming a "TCU" apartment complex seems so out of character for what a TCU student would be looking for; it is absent of any street life and the kinds of establishments that would attract students' interest. 

 

TCU is expanding to the east, north of Berry Street; and historically, development catering to the students have not been built.

 

All that being said, waiting for more information will certainly clear the air.



#93 Big Frog II

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 02:49 PM

I really thought someone would buy the old Westcliff Manor apartments, tear them down, and build new high dollar units before they would bulldoze the shopping center, but what do I know.



#94 Doohickie

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 03:29 PM

The likelihood of this becoming a "TCU" apartment complex seems so out of character for what a TCU student would be looking for; it is absent of any street life and the kinds of establishments that would attract students' interest. 

 

TCU is expanding to the east, north of Berry Street; and historically, development catering to the students have not been built.

 

All that being said, waiting for more information will certainly clear the air.

 

Two three story townhomes of hideous design were just built across the street from the shopping center.  They are definitely for TCU students.  A lot of the houses in that area are rented by TCU students.  A friend of mine who's a recent graduate lived a block off South Hills Ave.  LOTS of TCU students already live in that area.


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#95 Doohickie

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 04:10 PM

Since we all like to look at things how they were before, I highlighted the center on some older picture.  I'm not exactly sure how to attribute these, but I'd expect that they came from the collection at UTA.  I put them up a little bigger so you can make out the details:Hz73bY.jpg

 

A question about creeks, John (or anyone who knows):  In the foreground of this picture the extension of Trail Lake Drive and the beginning of South Ridge Terrace are visible just south of the train tracks & Granbury Road.  To the left and to right in the foreground are two creeks.  The one to the right is the one that begat Westcreek Drive, so let's call that West Creek.  The one to the left of Trail Lake Drive.... what is the name of that creek?  and what is the name of the combined creek north of Granbury Road?  I've referred to it for some time as Overton Creek since it runs between Overton Park East and West further north, but does it have another name?


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#96 John T Roberts

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 06:44 PM

Doohickie, I have to correct you.  The one to the left is not the creek that begat Westcreek.  The one to the left forces the curvature of Vega Ct. E & W at the point where the two branches merge.  This creek runs between Trail Lake and Melita as it flows north, then jumps between Trail Lake and Staples.  It eventually goes under Trail Lake and Granbury and daylights near the railroad bridge.  I have always called the creek that runs down Westcreek Drive as Westcreek.  That is the creek that is on the right side of the photo.  It's on the surface through Kellis Park is in a culvert from the park southward to Westcreek & Medina.  From the aerials, it appears that the portions in the culvert are directly below the streets of Medina, Westcreek, and South Ridge Terrace.  I have always called the creek between Overton Park East & West, Overton Creek.  This "Overton Creek" has actually been split in two and diverted around Bellaire Drive S.  The diversion for flood control was to turn it west just south of Bellaire Dr. S., and then empty it into the Trinity River.  The original channel continued to flow north between Overton Park East & West.  It then followed the current creek bed south and east of Hartwood Drive.  It then dumped into the Clear Fork of the Trinity River in a bend that is now within Colonial Country Club.  The point where this creek empties into the current Clear Fork Channel is where the old river joins the new channel.  All of this rechanneling and diverting was done in the late 1960's.



#97 Doohickie

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 09:56 PM

Doohickie, I have to correct you.  The one to the left is not the creek that begat Westcreek. 

 

Of course.  You would think by now I would know my left from my right.  Original post was corrected.


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#98 Doohickie

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 10:03 PM

The latest from the developers:

 

Dear Neighbors,

 

We hope this message finds everyone well. We wanted to update the neighborhood as to our plans and to address some of the comments made on Next Door over the last couple of days. As discussed, we have proposed a senior housing development on a large portion of the Westcliff Shopping Center. We met with a small group of neighbors on August 2nd to discuss some of our preliminary plans. We felt like we had a productive meeting and appreciated hearing the neighbors thoughts and concerns. We are taking that information in and plan on meeting with the entire neighborhood and nearby neighbors soon.

 

In the mean time we have noted certain disparaging and false comments have been made. We are happy to discuss any specifics at our meeting with the neighborhoods, as we believe attempting to clear up any confusion or rumors on social media would be futile.

 

One item we felt important to clear up now, is that the proposed development does not include any student housing, and any agreement would be written in such a way that student housing could never be developed on the site, even if a new owner were to step in. This was a key item discussed at the August 2nd neighborhood meeting and can be easily confirmed with the city of Fort Worth once a formal zoning change application has been submitted. Please also be rest assured that there is no potential for any bait and switch scenarios, as the city has enforceable controls in place to restrict just that.

 

We will update the neighborhood accordingly when our next meeting is scheduled.

 

Panteras Development Partners


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#99 renamerusk

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Posted 10 August 2018 - 08:04 AM

An excellent message from Panteras Development Partners.

 

Thanks for posting and helping to quell a lot of the pre -  developmental angst.



#100 Doohickie

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Posted 10 August 2018 - 09:36 AM

The resulting comments aren't much different than the first batch.  Neighbors are *very* skeptical.


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