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North Fort Worth shopping center in the works


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#1 cjyoung

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Posted 11 February 2005 - 04:13 PM

North Fort Worth shopping center in the works

Simon estimates project would generate 3,500 jobs

By Heather Landy

Star-Telegram Staff Writer


FORT WORTH - Mall developer Simon Property Group is eyeing a 250-acre tract in a fast-growing area of north Fort Worth to build an outdoor shopping center.

The company made a presentation Tuesday to the Fort Worth City Council's Economic Development Committee, asking the city for $11.5 million for road improvements around the site, including a westward extension of North Tarrant Parkway.


Construction of the mall, named Presidio Vista, could begin as early as this year and be completed by 2007, Simon said. The first phase of the project, which would include a movie theater, three large anchors, at least 12 other major spaces, plus space for restaurants and shops.


The project would generate about 3,500 new jobs, according to company figures.


The land, west of Interstate 35W and north of U.S. 287, was once slated for a Dell Computer corporate campus. In the wake of the technology bust, that project evaporated. Legacy Capital of Dallas bought the land from Dell and is a partner in the 250-acre development now being pitched by Indianapolis-based Simon. Simon owns several North Texas properties, including the North East Mall and the Shops at North East in Hurst and Irving Mall in Irving.

#2 cjyoung

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Posted 11 February 2005 - 04:16 PM

Apologies to the sprawl haters, but this project is needed in the Northwest part of Fort Worth.

#3 JBB

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Posted 11 February 2005 - 04:27 PM

This will probably serve to light a fire under the folks who are building the mall in Westlake. I'm betting this one will open first.

#4 Malt

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Posted 11 February 2005 - 06:31 PM

That is a prime location for a such a develpement with 35 and 287 feeding there.


Hope they charge Haslet residents double for all purchases. :blink:

#5 John T Roberts

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Posted 12 February 2005 - 09:02 AM

The internet article that CJ posted yesterday is a shortened version of what ran in the FWST today. For the full article go here: http://www.dfw.com/m...fw/10884837.htm

Personally, I don't think the area can support two malls going up at the same time. However, since both are outdoor malls, it would be very easy to phase development and construction and only build what is needed at the time.

#6 JBB

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Posted 12 February 2005 - 09:16 AM

Oh good. Sounds like the city will use TIF to revitalize another blighted area.

#7 Urbndwlr

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Posted 12 February 2005 - 02:58 PM

I haven't seen the site plan for Simon's planned outdoor retail center. I have to say, though, that this type of retail project is a big step in the right direction from conventional, enclosed shopping malls that prevailed in the 2nd half of the 20th Century.

If the site plan is designed well (to connect the project with the surrounding neighborhoods) and not isolate itself in a sea of parking, then it could be a very postive development.

I am a sprawl hater, however I realize that our city will continue to grow outward. The city should have smaller nodes/clusters of retail, office, industrial, and institutional uses in these more remote districts. This is consistent w/ the Comprehensive Plan, which seeks to have these small villages that serve as neighborhood centers.

I look forward to seeing the site plan and some elevations.
Any word on who Simon has hired to do the architecture?

BTW, Simon announced another outdoor shopping center down in Austin. This is definitely a national trend. Lots of these already exist in California.

For examples of open air retail centers (often called "Lifestyle Centers") see San Diego's Fashion Valley

http://www.simon.com...ult.aspx?ID=765

The new Market Street project in the Woodlands. Being developed by Fort Worth-based Trademark. Trademark also did the Tom Thumb anchored Trinity Commons retail center on Hulen Street. I wish they were behind more local projects. Would probably do a better job than Strode did in that Chapel Hill center.
http://www.marketstr...sing/index.html

Related WSJ article on the shift from enclosed malls to open air retail centers.
http://www.realestat...40812-muto.html

#8 mosteijn

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Posted 12 February 2005 - 07:46 PM

If the site plan is designed well (to connect the project with the surrounding neighborhoods) and not isolate itself in a sea of parking, then it could be a very postive development.

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HA! Good luck with that. I don't see how either of those wishes are possible since a.) there is limited (if any) transit opportunities up there, thus everyone will drive to it, plus it's cheaper to build a sea of parking than a few compact garages and b.) it's bounded by two freeways and a bunch of empty land...which neighborhoods will it be conncted to, exactly?

Any word on who Simon has hired to do the architecture?

Not like it matters, it's going to look like every other "lifestyle center" in the country. I can guarantee stucco is going to be a primary material.

For examples of open air retail centers (often called "Lifestyle Centers") see San Diego's Fashion Valley

http://www.simon.com...ult.aspx?ID=765

That's more of a roofless mall than a lifestyle center. I think what Presidio Vista is going for is more like Market Street, which has the "feel" of individual buildings on a main street, aka the new meaning of "urban" :rolleyes:

#9 gdvanc

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Posted 13 February 2005 - 01:07 AM

A few quick thoughts:

It may be true that people in that area feel a need for more convenient shopping. However, that doesn't necessarily mean that the rest of Fort Worth should subsidize the added convenience.

It's true that, from a developer's point of view, that looks like a great place to build a mall. If the access is poorly designed, however, (and that seems pretty inevitable all things considered) you will create (yet another) traffic nightmare in all directions on two important highways. Same goes for the Hillwood proposal for the east side of the intersection. And for Cabela's. Eventually the added congestion will impact things like industrial development at Alliance.

The "3,500 jobs" projection is silly.

One positive is that it is close to other cities; if the shopping people will be doing at this mall will replace shopping they are currently doing at stores in other cities, there would be a gain in sales tax revenues for Fort Worth. That would be worth estimating. Preferably by someone impartial.

#10 cjyoung

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Posted 14 February 2005 - 10:13 AM

There are 26,000+ housing units planned for the 287 area, all of which will be in Fort Worth. If you combine this with the thousands of houses being built near 170, 114, and Golden Triangle on the eastside of 35W, I think the area will be able to support two large malls.

My wife and I chose this location to build a new home based on these projections two years ago. I'm glad things are starting to get exciting. :rolleyes:

#11 AdamB

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Posted 14 February 2005 - 03:42 PM

I am pumped about this too. My Wife chose to build overlooking Eagle Mountain Lake and took advantage of an opportunity that we could not refuse... HOWEVER.. there is A LOT of open land and I am very eager to see more devlopment move towards us from the East. I would rather our area resist the expanding Azle/Lake Worth/Saginaw area that seems to be slowly approaching.

#12 Urbndwlr

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Posted 16 February 2005 - 11:37 PM

Johnny, it is entirely possible to tie a retail project into the urban fabric.
It just takes sound planning before. Just because there aren't obvious local examples of this doesn't make it impossible.

Also, remember, a project doesn't have to have structured parking day 1 for it to fit within the type of plan to which I am referring. As time goes on, and as demand for that land (the retail center's land) increases, it will make sense to begin to construct parking structures and other buildings that offer greater density for the site.

The site must be scalable so that it will allow it to grow well into a more dense, walkable district. I'm not talking SoHo, just a moderate-density area such as Palo Alto, California. (inspired by a recent visit).

#13 mosteijn

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Posted 20 February 2005 - 05:07 PM

Johnny, it is entirely possible to tie a retail project into the urban fabric. 
It just takes sound planning before.  Just because there aren't obvious local examples of this doesn't make it impossible. 

Also, remember, a project doesn't have to have structured parking day 1 for it to fit within the type of plan to which I am referring.  As time goes on, and as demand for that land (the retail center's land) increases, it will make sense to begin to construct parking structures and other buildings that offer greater density for the site. 

The site must be scalable so that it will allow it to grow well into a more dense, walkable district.  I'm not talking SoHo, just a moderate-density area such as Palo Alto, California.  (inspired by a recent visit).

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What urban fabric are we talking about? By the time anything even remotely urban makes its way this far north, Presidio Vista will be a distant memory. We've seen how long enclosed malls lasted, and I have a feeling this "new urbanist" mall idea won't last long either. Really, it's nothing more than a glorified strip mall, and like all stupid fads, it'll die out eventually.

Until then, don't count on those parking lots being replaced by anything except more parking...as long as this is a regional mall with no mass transit connection, that parking is an absolute necessity. How else do you expect people to get there? Are they going to walk accross 35W? I don't know about you, but I wouldn't risk my life because Foley's was having their billionth red-apple sale.

#14 cjyoung

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Posted 23 February 2005 - 02:59 PM

It looks like there are actually THREE projects in the works.

I would prefer one of the westside projects ($$$), but either project would benefit the area and I think other projects will come in the future to replace the projects that aren't approved.

#15 cjyoung

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Posted 23 February 2005 - 03:16 PM

City has considerable leverage over competing Alliance retail projects

By Mitchell Schnurman

Star-Telegram Staff Writer


How hot is the Alliance area in north Fort Worth?

Hot enough to attract three competing retail projects aiming for the same tenants and same consumers. And hot enough to drive down some incentive numbers to zero, as in zero tax abatements and zero tax rebates.

But is Alliance so hot that Fort Worth can tell the nation's biggest shopping-center developer to cool its jets?

That's what the city has to do now. If not, it runs the risk of backing the wrong horse on a project that could become the retail centerpiece of the Alliance area.

It's tricky, but it's a sweet spot for Fort Worth to be in. After priming the pump at Alliance for two decades, the area has heavyweights fighting to bring in retail in a big way.

That tells us that Alliance, a dynamo in job creation and housing, is about to arrive as a retail force.

It also means that Fort Worth has unusual leverage and influence. In getting to designate the chosen one, the city can place aesthetics over costs or product over performance or the long run over the short.

Fort Worth seems to sweat every detail on its big downtown projects, and the one in Alliance deserves the same treatment. It could set the tone for development for years to come in the area's top growth corridor.

Three proposals

Simon Property Group, which operates 78 regional malls, including North East Mall in Hurst, put a major retail proposal on the table this month. It attached urgency to its request for help on new roads, saying it has a March 1 deadline on its land option.

Hillwood, Ross Perot Jr.'s company, which created Alliance, sent its site plan to elected officials last week. Its ambitious vision includes a medical campus, a blend of residential and commercial properties, a grocery store and a hotel, all in addition to the usual anchor retailers and cinemas.

A third player, Ellesmere Corp. of Vancouver, British Columbia, is talking about something even larger. It's supposed to submit plans to the city next week, and like Simon, it may want to be reimbursed for road improvements. A development partner says Ellesmere's retail complex would include lifestyle and entertainment components and would be larger than Hulen Mall.

The focus of all this attention is an area along Interstate 35W just north of U.S. 287. Two of the tracts abut the western edge of I-35W, and their potential to capture the growing population along 287 is being played up.

Hillwood's tract is east of I-35W. With plans for bike trails and walking paths, it's designed to appeal to the neighboring Heritage residential development. It also offers a denser-living counterweight to suburban sprawl.

It's not unusual for retailers to go head-to-head for the same market, fighting to be the first to lock up tenants and break ground. Cities are often involved in the battle, as Grapevine and Irving, which squared off for the discount mall that became Grapevine Mills in the 1990s.

Usually, the marketplace sorts things out: Retailers pick the development and price they prefer, and that becomes the primary center. A few years later, the other location becomes something different.

Ultimately, all three sites along I-35W may end up with retail development because the area is growing rapidly and it's underserved. But only one project can emerge as the first to market, which means it will have the most-coveted tenants and the best chance to become the signature designation.

In this case, Fort Worth leaders may have to play Solomon. Simon and Ellesmere want public help to make their projects fly. They're willing to pay for new roads to U.S. 287 as long as they're reimbursed by a special taxing district that includes their project and, paradoxically, Hillwood's.

Hillwood, in contrast, has paid for its access roads. President Mike Berry says it's unfair to force Hillwood to compete with a developer that didn't have to sink those costs.

"The city doesn't have to get involved in this," Berry says. "At least not at this stage of the game. The city ought to sit back and let us guys battle it out."

That would be a death knell for Simon. Without a publicly funded road, it won't do the project, says Bill Hammer, Simon's vice president of development.

"Simon is a large company with a lot of development opportunities," Hammer says. "We really like this project, but if it's not going to happen here, we'll go on to others."

Don Silverman, the Dallas development partner for Ellesmere, says Simon is pushing too hard. Ellesmere has held the land for 30 years, but now "we're running as fast as we can to submit a plan," Silverman says.

"It's a disservice to the community to rush into anything," he says.

Another opinion

Fort Worth has asked a financial firm to review the three plans. Analysts will make sure that the developers can repay the road costs if that's included in their request. They'll also assess the amount of sales tax that each project would generate.

That measurement could favor sites west of I-35W if they call for more retail space. But the Hillwood proposal, designed with Trademark Property Co. of Fort Worth, might win points for aesthetics.

Hillwood also deserves kudos for delivering at Alliance. It received about $200 million in public money and has generated more than 20,000 jobs and hundreds of millions in new tax revenue.

But Hillwood has critics, especially leaders still angry that Hillwood plans to build an upscale mall on the Circle T Ranch in Westlake, across the city line.

Simon is trying to capitalize on that sentiment. Hammer says Simon's project would let Fort Worth capture taxes that would otherwise go to Westlake.

I'm skeptical.

The retail spending that's up for grabs has nothing to do with Westlake. It's going to be spent around I-35W and 287 -- at Hillwood's Alliance Town Center, Simon's Presidio Vista or Ellesmere's new project.

Which one will Fort Worth bless? With so much riding on it, this requires serious study.

But Simon may not be patient, because its option costs climb every month.

"For us, time is money," Hammer says.

Maybe he should be prepared to part with more of it.

#16 Urbndwlr

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Posted 23 February 2005 - 09:48 PM

Johnny, it is entirely possible to tie a retail project into the urban fabric. 
It just takes sound planning before.  Just because there aren't obvious local examples of this doesn't make it impossible. 

Also, remember, a project doesn't have to have structured parking day 1 for it to fit within the type of plan to which I am referring.  As time goes on, and as demand for that land (the retail center's land) increases, it will make sense to begin to construct parking structures and other buildings that offer greater density for the site. 

The site must be scalable so that it will allow it to grow well into a more dense, walkable district.  I'm not talking SoHo, just a moderate-density area such as Palo Alto, California.  (inspired by a recent visit).

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What urban fabric are we talking about? By the time anything even remotely urban makes its way this far north, Presidio Vista will be a distant memory. We've seen how long enclosed malls lasted, and I have a feeling this "new urbanist" mall idea won't last long either. Really, it's nothing more than a glorified strip mall, and like all stupid fads, it'll die out eventually.

Until then, don't count on those parking lots being replaced by anything except more parking...as long as this is a regional mall with no mass transit connection, that parking is an absolute necessity. How else do you expect people to get there? Are they going to walk accross 35W? I don't know about you, but I wouldn't risk my life because Foley's was having their billionth red-apple sale.

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If it is designed with bike and pedestrian-friendly crosswalks and entrances, the site plan could accommodate pedestrians who live within a 1/2 mile radius and cyclists who live within a 2-3 mile radius of the project. Because most shoppers/visitors choose to drive does not render these components a failure. The idea is to make it easy on the cyclists and pedestrians - to design the transportation infrastructure (roads, sidewalks, bike lanes) so that it does make sense to occasionally abandon the car and use the feet to get us where we're going. It works in other cities.

#17 mosteijn

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Posted 26 February 2005 - 08:08 PM

If it is designed with bike and pedestrian-friendly crosswalks and entrances, the site plan could accommodate pedestrians who live within a 1/2 mile radius and cyclists who live within a 2-3 mile radius of the project.  Because most shoppers/visitors choose to drive does not render these components a failure.  The idea is to make it easy on the cyclists and pedestrians - to design the transportation infrastructure (roads, sidewalks, bike lanes) so that it does make sense to occasionally abandon the car and use the feet to get us where we're going.  It works in other cities.

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But this is the suburbs!!! Who is going to choose to walk or ride their bikes to the mall when it makes MUCH more sense to drive? Sure, it's a good idea to incorporate crosswalks, sidewalks, etc. so the few brave souls who venture there without using gasoline can be a little better accomodated, but do you really think that it's going be an incentive to get a sizeable amount of people to go by foot or pedal to this new mall?

And when I was talking about connecting to the urban fabric, I was talking about the parking issue. It's the suburbs, face it, 99% of the customers at Presidio Vista will arrive there by car. There is really no way to avoid the place being surrounded by a sea of parking (unless, of course, it's surrounded by a few parking garages.)

#18 JBB

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Posted 02 March 2005 - 11:15 AM

Another developer throws their hat in the N. Tarrant/35/287 ring. Looks like this area is about to explode with development.

Third retail center planned for area

By Andrea Ahles

Star-Telegram Staff Writer


FORT WORTH - Details of the third proposed shopping complex for the junction of U.S. 287 and Interstate 35W were revealed Tuesday, making official a three-way race for retail traffic in north Fort Worth.

In addition to previously announced plans by Simon Property Group and Hillwood Properties, a landowner and a Dallas developer have entered a joint venture to build a 2 million-square-foot shopping center.

Ellesmere Corp., which has owned the land for several years, and Margaux Development Co., a Dallas shopping-center developer, say they want to break ground next year on the first phase of the project, which would be 1.3 million square feet with three large anchor stores, a 14- screen movie theater and 20 to 30 shops and restaurants.

Details about the Ellesmere-Margaux proposal were briefly mentioned during a tax-increment finance district board meeting Tuesday morning.

A site plan shown to the TIF board also includes single-family houses and a Lowe's home-improvement store. Margaux, however, would not confirm that Lowe's has committed to the project.

The Simon and Ellesmere developments are on the west side of I-35W, while the Hillwood development is east of the interstate.

The board discussed Simon's request for $9 million in TIF funds for roads to be built next to its 972,000 square-foot outdoor mall development, called Presidio Vista. Simon initially had requested $11.5 million.

But instead of voting on whether the TIF should fund Simon's request, the board has asked the city staff to write a reimbursement policy that can be applied to all of the developers that are situated to capitalize on the North Tarrant Parkway TIF.

"I don't think we have to [give incentives or tax breaks] with three interested parties," said Councilwoman Becky Haskin, chairwoman of the TIF board. "The city can't be as generous as we used to be."

All three proposed projects are in the TIF district. In a TIF district, property values are frozen for tax purposes, and taxes paid on the increased value created by new development are used to repay loans taken out by developers for streets, sidewalks, sewers and other public improvements within the district.

If the three projects move forward, the TIF could generate $81.9 million in real property tax revenues, according to an economic analysis by First Southwest Co. The city could also receive $181.6 million in sales tax from the developments between 2007 and 2019, First Southwest said during a presentation at the meeting.

But it's uncertain whether all three developments will be built as conceived. For example, all three would like to include a movie theater complex. But even with the population growth expected for north Fort Worth, Haskin said she's not sure all three will happen.

Bill Hammer, a development vice president with Simon, said his company is ready to be the first retail project on the ground even though it's waiting for city and other government approvals for improvements to the Harmon Road-U.S. 287 interchange.

"Obviously, timing continues to be a consideration," Hammer said. "We had hoped to break ground around the first of the year."

Russell Laughlin, a senior vice president for Hillwood, said he was comfortable with the TIF board's decision because Hillwood had already paid for some road improvements -- without city funding -- as it developed its land in the TIF. Hillwood has spent $6.6 million on Heritage Trace Parkway.

"We're just here to make sure the interchange gets funded with a true public-private partnership," said Laughlin, who sits on the TIF board. "The way those happen is developers help pay for roadways that they are actively developing."

Hillwood plans to develop 1.6 million square feet for retail, residential and office space on the east side of I-35W, south of Heritage Trace Parkway. The first phase of 694,000 square feet is scheduled to open in fall 2006.

Margaux, which has properties in Dallas and Collin counties under development for neighborhood shopping centers, speculates that the area could support three shopping centers. Donald Silverman, Margaux managing partner, likened the area to Preston Road and Texas 121 in Frisco where Stonebriar Centre and three other large retail complexes crowd one intersection.

"There is enough room for everybody, especially if you take a look at the population growth of north Fort Worth," Silverman said.

#19 Biggins

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Posted 02 March 2005 - 01:31 PM

A site plan shown to the TIF board also includes single-family houses and a Lowe's home-improvement store. Margaux, however, would not confirm that Lowe's has committed to the project.

_____

All three proposed projects are in the TIF district. In a TIF district, property values are frozen for tax purposes, and taxes paid on the increased value created by new development are used to repay loans taken out by developers for streets, sidewalks, sewers and other public improvements within the district.

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I can't believe the TIF financing provisions are being abused to achieve outlandish cases of corporate welfare such as these. First of all, seeing "Lowe's" and TIF in the same sentence makes my skin crawl. TIF districts are supposed to be "blighted" in nature, not merely underdeveloped. This is ridiculous. The city taxes the land as if its agricultural, whether or not it's being used for $$$ retail? I have an idea: why don't we dedicate the taxes paid on shoes, fitness and running equipment sold across the country and reserve them exclusively for building hiking and biking trails and pedestrian-friendly streetscapes (i.e. the end beneficiaries)? The developers get to have their cake and eat it too. I don't like the fact that a developer feels that it's entitled to a four lane boulevard supported with our tax dollars going into its developments. If the developer thinks that it stands to make such a profit from putting in the retail, let them build their own damn roads and infrastructure. What's next, will we be having to pay them to paint their buildings as well? There's ABSOLUTELY no reason that residents of Fort Worth should stand for this. All the talk about generated sales from the projects is complete bunk: any and all sales are merely cannibalized from other faltering retail developments. The only reason for the real growth of retail can be attributed to 1) booming population and 2) Americans' penchant for vast amounts of credit card debt. The sales generated by these developments will benefit only the owners' of the shopping centers, certainly not those small businesses shuttered by the opening of these "welfare queens".

#20 cjyoung

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Posted 02 March 2005 - 02:38 PM

I'm still in favor of the Presidio Vista project.

#21 Biggins

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Posted 02 March 2005 - 03:01 PM

I'm still in favor of the Presidio Vista project.

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Bottom line: TIFs are intended to give incentives to renew an area of existing blight with public monies that set forth provisions that dictate what TIF funds can and can't be used for.

You would be hard pressed to find a realtor/speculative real estate investor who would truthfully declare that ANY land between IH-820 and the Texas Motor Speedway is currently blighted. That land is destined to only increase in value as the free market develops it. It's not a question of IF that area will be developed, it's only a matter of when. Overlaying a TIF district anywhere in this area is asinine in nature, when it's perhaps poised to become the hottest market area in Tarrant County. It all amounts to the public subsidizing developers at the expense of the rest of the public. Any monies Fort Worth spends repaying developers for building roads is money that can't be spent on upgrading and repairing existing infrastructure in (guess what?) BLIGHTED areas. Anyone who can't see right through this has to be collusive in it or flat refuses to see the benefits/drawbacks to public decisions such as these.

P.S. - Am I the only one who thinks it's a little collusive that a Hillwood director is sitting on a TIF board, with the ability to distribute public monies to private developers? Isn't that like leaving the fox in guard of the henhouse? ;)

#22 John T Roberts

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Posted 02 March 2005 - 06:08 PM

Biggins, I agree with you 100%!

#23 Biggins

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Posted 02 March 2005 - 10:21 PM

Biggins,  I agree with you 100%!

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Thanks John, I appreciate it! ;)

#24 JBB

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Posted 02 March 2005 - 10:32 PM

I think you're preaching to the choir around here, Biggins. I'm afraid that FW has backed themselves into a corner to some degree when it comes to TIFs. It seems that every big name development in the city has come with their hands out waiting for the city to give them the push they need to go through with their plans. At some point, they have to say "No", but where do they start and what will the consequences be?

#25 normanfd

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Posted 03 March 2005 - 02:25 AM

Where does the company promoting Presidio Vista come from? Perhaps they chose that name in order to suggest blight.

Anyone who has ever seen the vista from Presidio, TX would know exactly what I mean. May I comically suggest that at this stage they're going after the TIF dollars as opposed to attracting high-end retailers? Clearly they're not in a location to evoke San Francisco's famous Presidio location.

#26 hannerhan

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Posted 03 March 2005 - 07:01 AM

Sure Norman, just because you live in the prettiest town in Texas doesn't mean you can bash Presidio! You have to admit, there's a vista.

#27 Biggins

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Posted 03 March 2005 - 08:40 AM

I think you're preaching to the choir around here, Biggins.  I'm afraid that FW has backed themselves into a corner to some degree when it comes to TIFs.  It seems that every big name development in the city has come with their hands out waiting for the city to give them the push they need to go through with their plans.  At some point, they have to say "No", but where do they start and what will the consequences be?

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Well, they simply have to rescind this area's approval for a TIF zone, effectively cutting off any additional subsidies. As a city, FW should study the legality of cutting off all financing retroactively to the point in time that there became a "Tarrant Parkway TIF" district. FW, and any other city for that matter, can't afford to extend miles of boulevards into pastureland for speculative development, as this was never the way retail developments were conceived to begin with. The adage "retail follows the rooftops" has apparently gone out the window at the foaming mouths of these developers. If the Frisco/Plano area can't support two new malls effectively (Shops at Willow Bend is redundant for Stonebriar), how is the pastureland around Fort Worth and the few towns that dot it (Watauga, Saginaw, Keller) going to support THREE huge shopping centers? If FW is to reimburse any developer, be it commercial or residential, then that developer should have to adhere to a set of city standards and the city masterplanning document (if there should exist such a document). With this current setup, it seems that the developer is able to construct the streets with only the up-front costs in mind, knowing good and well that down the line, the residents of FW will be responsible for its limited lifespan and eventual replacement. I'll go one step further and advocate that any street built in Fort Worth, be it privately or publicly funded, that eventually reverts back to FW for maintenance and patrol must be held to the same standards that are codified by the city. We need to make these developers stop passing the buck at us. :(

#28 cjyoung

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Posted 03 March 2005 - 09:14 AM

I'm still in favor of the Presidio Vista project.

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Bottom line: TIFs are intended to give incentives to renew an area of existing blight with public monies that set forth provisions that dictate what TIF funds can and can't be used for.

You would be hard pressed to find a realtor/speculative real estate investor who would truthfully declare that ANY land between IH-820 and the Texas Motor Speedway is currently blighted. That land is destined to only increase in value as the free market develops it. It's not a question of IF that area will be developed, it's only a matter of when. Overlaying a TIF district anywhere in this area is asinine in nature, when it's perhaps poised to become the hottest market area in Tarrant County. It all amounts to the public subsidizing developers at the expense of the rest of the public. Any monies Fort Worth spends repaying developers for building roads is money that can't be spent on upgrading and repairing existing infrastructure in (guess what?) BLIGHTED areas. Anyone who can't see right through this has to be collusive in it or flat refuses to see the benefits/drawbacks to public decisions such as these.

P.S. - Am I the only one who thinks it's a little collusive that a Hillwood director is sitting on a TIF board, with the ability to distribute public monies to private developers? Isn't that like leaving the fox in guard of the henhouse? :(

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MY RESPONSE HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH TIF'S! B)

I was just stating which project I prefer to happen first, not whether or not I approve or disapprove of corporate welfare.

I just hope the project happens.

#29 Urbndwlr

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Posted 03 March 2005 - 11:18 AM

If it is designed with bike and pedestrian-friendly crosswalks and entrances, the site plan could accommodate pedestrians who live within a 1/2 mile radius and cyclists who live within a 2-3 mile radius of the project.  Because most shoppers/visitors choose to drive does not render these components a failure.  The idea is to make it easy on the cyclists and pedestrians - to design the transportation infrastructure (roads, sidewalks, bike lanes) so that it does make sense to occasionally abandon the car and use the feet to get us where we're going.  It works in other cities.

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But this is the suburbs!!! Who is going to choose to walk or ride their bikes to the mall when it makes MUCH more sense to drive? Sure, it's a good idea to incorporate crosswalks, sidewalks, etc. so the few brave souls who venture there without using gasoline can be a little better accomodated, but do you really think that it's going be an incentive to get a sizeable amount of people to go by foot or pedal to this new mall?

And when I was talking about connecting to the urban fabric, I was talking about the parking issue. It's the suburbs, face it, 99% of the customers at Presidio Vista will arrive there by car. There is really no way to avoid the place being surrounded by a sea of parking (unless, of course, it's surrounded by a few parking garages.)

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You're missing the point. The point is that the project's design (and all of the neighborhoods and districts' designs) to make it easy for people who choose to walk or ride their bikes to thier destinations (work, play, live). To design it so that pedestrians or cyclists feel intimidated by fast-moving cars would ensure that nobody would ever walk or ride a bike in these places.

By the way, there is definitely some precedent for this throughout Northern California and now down in Austin. SW Fort Worth is not one of those places - yet. I would encourage you to suspend that impluse that says "that would never work here". There doesn't actually have to be precedent for new designs and new ways of doing things to work in Fort Worth.

To illustrate what I'm talking about, please check out the following books. I think you would really enjoy reading these.

The Regional City, Peter Calthorpe
The Charter of the New Urbanism
The New Urbanism, Peter Katz
Suburban Nation

#30 Biggins

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Posted 03 March 2005 - 12:24 PM

MY RESPONSE HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH TIF'S!  :wub:

I was just stating which project I prefer to happen first, not whether or not I approve or disapprove of corporate welfare.

I just hope the project happens.

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I apologize. I now realize that you were inputting a general comment rather than a flippant reply. I was really worked up when I heard TIF and Lowe's in the same sentence and was trying to provoke some positive reaction amongst the crowd, which I eventually received.
Again, I apologize. ;)

#31 Thurman52

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Posted 25 March 2005 - 06:04 PM

Looks like Hillwood plans on beating Simon to the punch....

GlobeSt.com EXCLUSIVE: Fall Start Eyed for $200M Alliance Town Centre
By Connie Gore
Last updated: March 24, 2005 07:43am

For more retail coverage, click GlobeSt.com/RETAIL.


FORT WORTH-With the rooftops in place, Hillwood has decided the time has come to christen a town center. In Hillwood style, the "power town" project's build-out will easily top $200 million, adding 1.5 million sf of retail, residential and office space to the 17,000-acre AllianceTexas.


Darrell Lake, senior vice president for Hillwood Properties, tells GlobeSt.com that the first wave of construction, 600,000 sf to 700,000 sf, will break ground in the fall. He says three retail anchors are getting the project moving, with the team fully confident that the shop space will rapidly fill.


Though names aren't ready to be aired, Lake says deals have been sealed with a 100,000-sf soft goods retailer and a theater chain for 15 screens in a 75,000-sf venue. And before long, the third anchor will be signed. Hillwood plans to deliver the 60-acre first phase for Alliance Town Centre in fall 2006.


Hillwood has picked Trademark Property Co. of Fort Worth, a master craftsman of town centers in Texas, as its joint venture partner for the project. An early run at 60 possible retailers has brought an "overwhelming response," Lake says.


With the anchors in place, Lake says the team is ready to settle down to design the Texas-size project. Good Fulton & Farrell Inc. of Dallas will be crafting a "power town" design with big boxes, a village center and native architectural lines. The breakdown of retail, high-density residential and office space has yet to be determined.


"We felt the scope and scale of this project is large enough to warrant the name, Alliance Town Centre," Lake says. "This will become the gathering spot for the residents and business customers that we have at Alliance." The project site is the highest point in North Fort Worth, coming with built-in views of the downtown on a clear day.

Another developer has marked a spot across Interstate 35W for an equally large retail project. But, Lake points out, the ramp will be at Hillwood's doorstep on the east side Heritage Trace Parkway and I-35. "We don't think there will be two projects there," Lake assesses. "We have to be the first so we'll break ground in the fall."


Alliance Town Centre will be the gateway to Hillwood's master-planned communities of Heritage and Park Glen, which have 4,000 single-family homes on 3,500 acres. "In a 360-degree trade area--four miles to the north and four miles to the south--it is pure residential," Lake says. "This is the bull's eye." The area is platted for 40,000 single-family lots, with 7,000 dwellings now rising annually. The site also is three miles south of the 230,000-sf Cabela's, set to open in May as a drawing card for four million shoppers per year.


Hillwood's land bank has another 500 acres with I-35 frontage. Lake says talks have begun to use some of the land as vehicle dealership sites.

Hillwood's projection is it will take six years to build out Alliance Town Centre's estimated 1.5 million sf of mixed-use, class A space. "It will be well north of a $200-million project," Lake says.

#32 redhead

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Posted 25 March 2005 - 07:07 PM

Oh you cynics! Of course we can support all three---have you forgotten that Cabelas is going to bring in SIX MILLION visitors?! (I wonder if that projection is still good since they are building another Cabelas about eight miles south of the Austin city limits...mmm?)

#33 JBB

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Posted 06 May 2005 - 12:41 PM

For those of you playing along at home, the mall that the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy, and Santa Clause are collaborating on in Westlake has been pushed back to 2007, 12 years after it was first proposed. I'll believe this one when the dirt starts turning.

Posted on Fri, May. 06, 2005

Firm: Mall is still on track

By Andrea Jares

Star-Telegram Staff Writer


General Growth Properties has pushed back the opening date of a long-anticipated Westlake mall in a federal filing, but a spokeswoman for the developer said the project is still on target to open in fall 2007.

The later date for the opening of the Shops at Circle T Ranch was given to the Securities and Exchange Commission because it is more conservative and reflects when the company expects all parts of the mall to be completed, said Julie Jacoby, General Growth spokeswoman.

In partnership with Alliance developer Hillwood, General Growth has been planning the Shops at Circle T Ranch off Texas 114 since 1995. Foley's, Dillard's and an AMC theater have signed on as anchors for the 1.3 million-square-foot mall.

Construction will take 18 to 24 months, representatives of Hillwood and General Growth said.

Trent Petty, Westlake's city manager, said mall developers have not yet submitted detailed plans for city approval so that crews can dredge nearby Lake Turner, design roads and build.

"There is the ability to fast-track portions of the project and build some of it simultaneously," Petty said.

"But there are certain milestones that have to be completed first."

Petty is used to the delays. He has drawn up two city budgets every year since 2000 -- a conservative one without the mall revenue and one with more spending on town projects.

"We hope to be surprised one of these days when we have to put it in the budget," Petty said.

He said recent developments in the mall and department-store businesses might be causing a slowdown, noting that planned anchors Foley's and Neiman Marcus have recently been bought and that General Growth, the developer, also recently merged with the Rouse Co.

#34 mosteijn

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Posted 07 July 2005 - 09:48 PM

I was looking around at stuff about ATC and I found this pdf on Trademark's website:

http://www.tdmk.com/...enterAerial.pdf

Why post this? In case you want to be astounded at how much development is going on in N. Fort Worth, this pdf is for you :D

#35 John T Roberts

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Posted 08 July 2005 - 06:30 AM

Although an improvement over a typical mall, this still looks too suburban to me.

#36 Thurman52

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Posted 08 July 2005 - 08:02 AM

I really like urban environments in urban settings, Alliance has been and always will be suburban, thus I think this center is fitting for the area.

I was really interested in seeing all those tract home developments planned on that map... my favorite...

#37 JBB

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Posted 08 July 2005 - 09:01 AM

Although an improvement over a typical mall, this still looks too suburban to me.

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The sea of parking with the strip centers on either side reminds me very much of NE Mall or Montgomery Park.

#38 mosteijn

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Posted 08 July 2005 - 12:10 PM

I was really interested in seeing all those tract home developments planned on that map...  my favorite...

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I know! Yes it's sprawl but wow...they're predicting the trade area (lime green outline in that map) to have almost 300,000 people by 2009, adding between 100,000 and 150,000 from now. Those are impressive numbers regardless of the type of dwellings being built out there. Hopefully they will provide Fort Worth with some critical mass it can use to get bigger central city developments.

#39 WTx

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Posted 08 July 2005 - 02:23 PM

There is not a day that goes by that I-35 up here is packed and slow. If I am going DT I take Main. I hope they have a plan to do something with 35 even if it involves tolls. If they don't do something fast its going to get even uglier up here. I don't mind the development since it is very much needed but 35 is going to be a prob.

1999 driving on 35 :P
2000 driving on 35 :)
2001 driving on 35 :D
2002 driving on 35 :D
2003 driving on 35 :wacko:
2004 driving on 35 :angry:
2005 driving on 35 :mad:

#40 RD Milhollin

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Posted 13 July 2005 - 10:33 AM

There is not a day that goes by that I-35 up here is packed and slow.  If I am going DT I take Main.  I hope they have a plan to do something with 35 even if it involves tolls.  If they don't do something fast its going to get even uglier up here.  I don't mind the development since it is very much needed but 35 is going to be a prob.

1999 driving on 35 -_-
2000 driving on 35  :P
2001 driving on 35  :huh:
2002 driving on 35  :huh:
2003 driving on 35  :mad:
2004 driving on 35  :red:
2005 driving on 35  -_-

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That aerial is eye-opening. Driving around out there you really don't get the idea of the scale of all the developments going in. As was mentioned above, traffic is going to be a holy nightmare, wait, IS a holy nightmare. I flew into DFW last night and passed over the area about 6:00 PM and things were all locked up on I-820 and I-35W (north). There are several large employers in the area, it appears people are going to need to be travelling to other parts of the Metromess, and all I see proposed to handle this is a massive reconstruction of the I820-SH183 corridor favored and pushed by the Perot camp. Did anyone else notice there is no mention of any mass transportation on the display map? I would think that a commuter rail from DT-FW and from the north gate of DFW would be fairly easy to accomplish and could serve a fairly large number of people.

#41 jefffwd

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Posted 13 July 2005 - 11:30 AM

I saw on the news a week or so ago that commuter rail is in the works from downtown Fort Worth to Plano with stops at D/FW airport and Addison. The tracks are already in place (Cotton Belt I think) and DART already owns them.

#42 cjyoung

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Posted 13 July 2005 - 11:38 AM

I really like urban environments in urban settings, Alliance has been and always will be suburban, thus I think this center is fitting for the area. 

I was really interested in seeing all those tract home developments planned on that map...  my favorite...

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I agree with both points. :huh: Unfortunately, this is how cities are grown in the South.

#43 JBB

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Posted 13 July 2005 - 11:49 AM

I saw on the news a week or so ago that commuter rail is in the works from downtown Fort Worth to Plano with stops at D/FW airport and Addison.  The tracks are already in place (Cotton Belt I think) and DART already owns them.

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That's correct, but I believe Pup is talking about commuter lines that serve the Alliance area and the Cotton Belt line does not.

#44 WTx

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Posted 13 July 2005 - 02:38 PM

My understanding is that the Cotton Belt money is already allocated and should be up and running by 09'.

#45 jefffwd

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Posted 21 July 2005 - 11:40 AM

Council vote clears way for mall

By Andrea Ahles

Star-Telegram Staff Writer


FORT WORTH - North Fort Worth may be a step closer to getting a new outdoor mall after the City Council decided a road issue Tuesday night.

The council voted to deny a request by mall builder Margaux Development Co. of Dallas to realign North Tarrant Parkway about 300 yards to the southeast of its planned route west of Interstate 35W.

The vote clears the way for another mall developer, Simon Property Group, to move ahead with its plans for a mall at U.S. 287 and I-35W. Simon also operates North East Mall in Hurst and Golden Triangle Mall in Denton.

"We're working hard on the design of the project and moving it ahead," said Bill Hammer, Simon's vice president of development. "The business with the road has been something of a sideshow."

The planned parkway would run alongside both Margaux's and Simon's proposed retail developments. Simon had planned its development around the city's master thoroughfare plan.

But Margaux had proposed that North Tarrant Parkway curve south and connect directly to Bailey Boswell Road. The city's plan has North Tarrant Parkway connecting to Harmon Road.

Margaux managing partner Donald Silverman said the council's vote has no effect on his company's plan to build a multiphase outdoor mall with 1.3 million square feet of retail space. Margaux hopes to open the mall by 2008.

"The alignment is immaterial to that project," Silverman said, but added, "We think mobility to this area will be, frankly, a disaster if half the retail that is planned gets built."

Three developers -- Simon, Margaux and Ross Perot Jr.'s Hillwood Properties -- have proposed large shopping complexes near the interchange.

Simon's $800 million development includes a movie theater and at least 15 large retail tenants and would create 3,500 new jobs, the developer has said. The Indianapolis-based company had initially asked the city for $11.5 million for road improvements around the site, which is in a tax increment financing district, although that figure has decreased.

Hammer said Simon's next step is to ask the TIF district for about $4 million to construct North Tarrant Parkway. The developer is already in talks with the North Central Texas Council of Governments for federal and state funding for a proposed interchange at Harmon Road and U.S. 287.

East of I-35W, Hillwood plans to break ground later this year on its 1.6 million-square-foot retail, residential and office space project.

Darrell Lake, a senior vice president for Hillwood, said his company expects to open the first phase of its development in fall 2006. He said it has agreements with several retailers, including one major anchor, for the project.

Lake declined to name the anchor but said he hopes to make an announcement in the next three months.

#46 360texas

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Posted 21 July 2005 - 01:06 PM

Isnt that the underdeveloped distressed area near Cabelas that got the Fort Worth City TIF recently?

Dave still at

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Visit 360texas.com


#47 AdamB

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Posted 21 July 2005 - 01:12 PM

so let me see if I have this straight...

we have the following:

Presidio Vista (Simon) -- north of 287 and west of 35, 1.4 million square feet, outdoor mall with big anchor retailers, residential units, movie theater

Alliance Town Center (Hillwood/Perot) -- east of 35, 2 million square feet, big box retailers, residential units, medical center, movie theater

Margaux Development -- south of 287 and west of 35, 1.3 million square feet, smaller retailers, strip center-like??, movie theater

right??

Soooo.... we have 4.7 million square feet of retail space going in, possibly three new theaters all at 287 and 35.

WHEN THE HECK IS FW GOING TO GET BUSY ON THE FREAKING ROADS AND HIGHWAYS. FOR THE LOVE OF PETE!!!!!! I live up here and 820 and 35 are complete HEADACHES.

This is sounding like it will be larger than all the development at 20 and Cooper in Arlington. They have the roads and they can't even handle the traffic. If this stuff is going to start up within a couple years then Fort Worth REALLY needs to get on the ball. I think I pay enough taxes to demand that we have decent and adequate roads and highways to drive on. If only we could get mass transit from Alliance to downtown... but I guess it is more important that the good ol' Plano folks have a way to get to DTFW. Screw the locals right!!

Someone settle me down if there is a reason to be optimistic, if not then someone please give me all the information for the guy I need to be complaining to.

:)

#48 RD Milhollin

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Posted 21 July 2005 - 03:17 PM

Soooo.... we have 4.7 million square feet of retail space going in, possibly three new theaters all at 287 and 35.

WHEN THE HECK IS FW GOING TO GET BUSY ON THE FREAKING ROADS AND HIGHWAYS.  FOR THE LOVE OF PETE!!!!!!  I live up here and 820 and 35 are complete HEADACHES.

This is sounding like it will be larger than all the development at 20 and Cooper in Arlington.  They have the roads and they can't even handle the traffic.  If this stuff is going to start up within a couple years then Fort Worth REALLY needs to get on the ball.  I think I pay enough taxes to demand that we have decent and adequate roads and highways to drive on.  If only we could get mass transit from Alliance to downtown... but I guess it is more important that the good ol' Plano folks have a way to get to DTFW.  Screw the locals right!!

Someone settle me down if there is a reason to be optimistic, if not then someone please give me all the information for the guy I need to be complaining to.

:)

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Someone mentioned the other day that the rebuilding of I-35 was on the horizon, although I don't see it as coming any time soon. Regardless, when it is designed citizens and planners should insist that two tracks of urban transit are set down the middle and stations built as part of the freeway(/tollway?). Additionally, someone should be looking into a set of tracks linking Dallas with all this new development and the adjoining racetrack. You think 820 and I-35 are bad during a regular weekday afternoon rush hour... :angry:

#49 grow_smart

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Posted 22 July 2005 - 07:09 AM

Soooo.... we have 4.7 million square feet of retail space going in, possibly three new theaters all at 287 and 35.

WHEN THE HECK IS FW GOING TO GET BUSY ON THE FREAKING ROADS AND HIGHWAYS.  FOR THE LOVE OF PETE!!!!!!  I live up here and 820 and 35 are complete HEADACHES.

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But did you enjoy purchasing your home for roughly $75 per sq.ft. or therabouts? You know why it's so cheap? Because your developer didn't have to pay to put any of the infrastructure in!

Did you not notice the congestion and lack of roads when you purchased your home?

I apologize if you lived there for 10+ years, but otherwise this congestion is to be expected until the City can catch up with the growth.

#50 AdamB

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Posted 22 July 2005 - 09:32 AM

I purchased just recently but we moved up here for my wife's job, she is a teacher in EMSISD. I can move my business, but currently I am stuck driving to Arlington everyday until my lease is up on that office space.

820 has been a problem for years.

There are plans to turn 820 into 11 lanes(one lane that will change directions as traffic dictates) between 35 and 26. The project is expected to start in two phases, one in 2007 and one in 2008. But this is my whole problem with Texas... we never look toward the future for the development of roads and highways. The fact that there are no immediate plans to run light rail from North FW and DTFW is pretty shortsighted as well.




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