72 replies to this topic

[mmiller2002]

I'm sure all the homeowners anywhere near the area will love this as much as they love the garage.

[Volare]

I'm sure all the homeowners anywhere near the area will love this as much as they love the garage.

Yep, cuz everyone will be parking in front of their houses 24/7/365! Brilliant!
I mentioned as much when I emailed my Councilman today.

[John T Roberts]

The City Council viewed a proposal today to increase the parking fees to $8. They will also explore the possibility of having people pay by the actual time parked, rather than the flat fee. This will be done to continue to pay off the construction of the Western Heritage Garage and was planned from the beginning.

[Volare]

Well, I'm just SHOCKED. The pay parking debacle has been a miserable failure, and now the Council decides that instead of scrapping it they will instead make the problem worse. What a debacle. "Told you so" email to my councilman already sent.

[360texas]

Its maybe like the Grocery Store parking = its free and customers focus on buying needed product in the store.
If the grocery store started requiring customers to pay for parking to shop in their store.... there might be very few food shopping customers.
Why don't they charge for Parking? Maintaining parking lots are just built into their operations budget as a distributed cost added to the products they sell.

Churches, Movie Theatres and big box retail do not charge for parking. Its in their budget.

Maybe they should reallocate parking fees to the Museum and Event Services ... add the parking cost to Event entry ticket fee.

Actually that make sense.

Venues with with more traffic probably means more occupied parking spots. Venues with Zero attendance.. probably means no car spots occupied.

So for the average person finding an open parking spot... thinks it is free parking... until they buy family tickets ($). The City gets their cut from ticket sales.

Now that the Venues become sale tax and parking tax collectors... the city will not need to employee a Parking subcontractor and its overhead costs. Actual cost of parking just goes down. Which might actually increase attendance.

Remember a FEE is a recoverable expense based on specific usage.
A Tax is non specific and is approved or not approved by taxpayers and probably goes into the Fort Worth City general fund.

[mmiller2002]

This pay parking has been a royal PITA. Our family participates in several dance events per year between Scott and Will Rogers Theaters. Each performance requires a minimum of 2-3 visits for the rehearsals and actual performances Many, many of the participants park up by the Lutheran church, or in the neighborhoods to avoid the $5 parking.

I'll bet the Crestline, Harley, Washburn, Watonga, etc. residents have also fallen in love with the pay parking since it's inception. They get to meet so many new people jamming the streets in front of their houses.

[FoUTASportscaster]

Its maybe like the Grocery Store parking = its free and customers focus on buying needed product in the store.
If the grocery store started requiring customers to pay for parking to shop in their store.... there might be very few food shopping customers.
Why don't they charge for Parking? Maintaining parking lots are just built into their operations budget as a distributed cost added to the products they sell.

Churches, Movie Theatres and big box retail do not charge for parking. Its in their budget.

Maybe they should reallocate parking fees to the Museum and Event Services ... add the parking cost to Event entry ticket fee.

Actually that make sense.

Venues with with more traffic probably means more occupied parking spots. Venues with Zero attendance.. probably means no car spots occupied.

So for the average person finding an open parking spot... thinks it is free parking... until they buy family tickets ($). The City gets their cut from ticket sales.

Now that the Venues become sale tax and parking tax collectors... the city will not need to employee a Parking subcontractor and its overhead costs. Actual cost of parking just goes down. Which might actually increase attendance.

Remember a FEE is a recoverable expense based on specific usage.
A Tax is non specific and is approved or not approved by taxpayers and probably goes into the Fort Worth City general fund.

Why should parking have a hidden cost? What is wrong with paying for the use? Someone owns that land. Someone pays taxes on that land (usually). Someone paid money for that land. Someone pays money to maintain that land. Yet, you want to make it a hidden cost. As a non-caqr user, I'd love to have thaty discount, but as a car user, you want me subsidizing your use.

[John T Roberts]

Maybe, I'm just strange, but in theory, I don't have a problem with charging for parking or a service. However, in principle, I have a problem with providing something for free and then deciding to charge for it later. Unless I can completely avoid the fee, once that the fee is started, then I don't use the service any more. For example, I have not flown on an airplane since the airlines have started charging for baggage and all of their other fees. I have driven to my destinations instead. Will I fly again? Yes, but only if that is the only way I can get there.

My bank is studying charging a $3 per month fee to use a debit card for purchases. If that works out in other states and they start that in Texas, I will either look seriously at switching banks, or go back to cash. I know this probably sounds dumb, but it is the principle of the thing, not the fee.

As for the Cultural District, I have visited a few times and I have parked in the neighborhood and walked to the museums. Last weekend, I took some photographs for the Cultural District portion of Fortwortharchitecture.com and I parked in the neighborhood and walked.

When the $5 parking fee was started, the neighborhood stated that they wanted to allow people to be able to park in the neighborhood without a permit. When they raise the fee to $8, the city will explore the option again with the neighbors because more people will be parking for free to walk to the museums and events. I don't mind walking a block, or even two to go to one of the museums.

Where will I draw the line on walking? I don't know. It will probably be more than 3 or 4 blocks.

[hipolyte]

Just as I predicted, since the pay parking has been in effect, I have not returned to any of those venues. I am even less likely to pay $8 than $5, althoigh I can easily afford to.

IMHO this is less about revenue than about class barrier exclusion. There was a time when free swimming pools, zoos, and museums were a matter of civic pride. Now they are just another victim of the economic disparity between the 'haves' and 'havenots'.
They should just go ahead and make it $50 a car, and dispense with the pretense that these are still affordable 'public' facilities.

I will have to attend an event there next month, and I will park in the neighborhood and walk in like John. But I expect that the neighborhood will soon change their minds about free parking on the street, and you will see all the 'no parking' signs like all around TCU.

[EwingFTW]

...... I don't mind walking a block, or even two to go to one of the museums.

The Amon Carter, Kimbell and The Modern all offer free parking to their visitors. You don't need to walk a long way.

[mmiller2002]

When the $5 parking fee was started, the neighborhood stated that they wanted to allow people to be able to park in the neighborhood without a permit. When they raise the fee to $8, the city will explore the option again with the neighbors because more people will be parking for free to walk to the museums and events. I don't mind walking a block, or even two to go to one of the museums.

Why on earth would the neighborhood residents have "wanted to allow people to park in the neighborhood without a permit?" Why would they like cars lined up on their streets every weekend? People are slobs and leave trash...

just curious.

[Volare]

Why on earth would the neighborhood residents have "wanted to allow people to park in the neighborhood without a permit?" Why would they like cars lined up on their streets every weekend? People are slobs and leave trash...

just curious.

Can you imagine how it is to have a party at your place for Super Bowl or whatever, but have to tell your friends that they can't park on your street because you have to have a permit? In this state where personal liberty is so valued, can you imagine how well it would go over to tell people that they can't park in front of their houses unless they have a permit?

I can only imagine what this whole fiasco is doing to residential property values in this area. If I was over there, I'd be angry.

[mmiller2002]

Can you imagine how it is to have a party at your place for Super Bowl or whatever, but have to tell your friends that they can't park on your street because you have to have a permit? In this state where personal liberty is so valued, can you imagine how well it would go over to tell people that they can't park in front of their houses unless they have a permit?

I supposed that residents would have some temp permits to allow guests ;-)
May be a hassle, but the trash and congestion of public parkers escaping a new fee would be worse to me. It's not like the parking was like that when those residents decided to buy on those streets.

[John T Roberts]

The Business Press has an article in this weeks issue on the parking. Below is the link.

http://www.fwbusines...ark-debate.html

[Volare]

Debacle. Shingleton is an idiot. "We just want to cover the debt." Except for all the revenue generated by the City owned and built garages and parking lots during the stock show. Every penny of that revenue goes to the Stock Show. So much for covering debt.

[Volare]

More WRMC parking debacle fallout. Museum attendance falling.

[Joshw]

More WRMC parking debacle fallout. Museum attendance falling.

I believe it. Dallas has you paying for parking in most places, so people are used to it. Fort Worth people don't have to pay hardly anywhere for parking. Not something people are used to, so they probably see it as saving a few dollars and go have fun elsewhere. Not sure what you can do to combat that.

[mmiller2002]

More WRMC parking debacle fallout. Museum attendance falling.

I believe it. Dallas has you paying for parking in most places, so people are used to it. Fort Worth people don't have to pay hardly anywhere for parking. Not something people are used to, so they probably see it as saving a few dollars and go have fun elsewhere. Not sure what you can do to combat that.

I totally agree.
I believe that is what a lot of people would say that they like(d) about FW versus D. Easier to get a round, not a big city, etc. Little by little, many in FW are trying to be city-ish. IMO...

What's that T-shirt? "Life's too short to live in Dallas"

[FoUTASportscaster]

I just want to point out that we are in (or maybe just coming out of) one of the worst economic slumps of the past century. The first thing that goes is discretionary spending, even among those who jave jobs (because they may be worried about how long they have it). Trips to museums certainly would qualify. While charging for parking may have had some effect, it certainly isn't what you all are making it out to be.

[Volare]

The Stock Show had record attendance this year which certainly runs counter to your theory. And due to the sweetheart deal, the City realized not a penny of parking revenue during that entire show.

Read the comments to the recent ST article that I posted.

[FoUTASportscaster]

So your point is that the Stockyards, which is where tons of folks go to buy and sell livestock as well as youth involvement in raising livestock is the same thing as the museums? If so, I'm not sure that holds water.

[FoUTASportscaster]

I went to the dog show this weekend at Will Rogers Coliseum. They had near record attendence and parking was charged.

[mmiller2002]

Does anyone know if therer is pa plan to get rid of those low-rent looking toll booths on the surface lots?