34 replies to this topic

[cjyoung]

http://www.star-tele...g-the.html?rh=1

[cjyoung]

The season ticket percentage change is quite shocking to me.

[JBB]

That is a pretty staggering increase, no doubt helped along by the increase in capacity and the fact that a number of longtime season ticket holders (many whom were probably Dallas residents) were forced out by the increase in PSL fees and ticket prices. I don't think there's any doubt that Fort Worth could support its own professional franchise, but where one comes from and how one gets here is the unknown.

[Now in Denton]

This is EXACTLY why I ( and Jeriat ) said about someday moving the Rangers to Fort Worth proper . Fort Worth can support a franchise . Not only due to Fort Worth growth . But growth west of Fort Worth . Parker, Wise, Hood, Johnson. Fort Worth ought not be shy about taking on Dallas. When the Rangers someday look too do a  Major Renovation or a new home.

[cjyoung]

I said it too on this forum back in 1997.

[JBB]

The Rangers are going to be the next opportunity since their lease will run out in 9 years. I think that FW would be foolish to not make a play for getting the stadium, but, as I've said before, that fight is Arlington's to lose. They've been good stewards of the current ballpark and they have bent over backward in recent years to help pay for all of the renovations (center field concourse, home plate concourse, video board, ribbon display, etc.). I fully expect Arlington to step up to the plate (pun intended) when it comes time for a large-scale renovation or replacement plan for GLP.

Other than that, it gets tricky. The Stars and Mavs are in the AAC until 2031. I couldn't find an exact term, but I would assume the Cowboys are locked into Arlington through 2039. Expansion by any of the major 4 leagues is unlikely, so you're left with convincing an existing owner of a franchise to move here or a local party purchasing a franchise to move here. Both of those options are also tricky since you have to convince other local owners to not fight said relocation.

[Austin55]

I'm still in the MLS camp. They are looking to expand and FW is ~40 miles from the nearest team, with several million people between here and there. It's not as flashy or big time as NFL or MLB but is a growing league and I think FW's population would support it.

[renamerusk]

The dumbest and most ill purpose way to spend public money would be to subsidize professional sports owners who can afford to pay a commissioner an annual salary of $44 million dollars. 

 

 

Good luck selling that one to the citizenry.

[johnfwd]

In a broad sense, packaging a sports franchise marketing strategy with the source identity "Tarrant County" might be considered less effective than a "Fort Worth" identity.  But, then again, the Texas Rangers seem to be faring well, absent a local identity.

 

 The real point here is, you need to have spirited, persistent, and powerful stakeholders to approach a national franchise sports authority.  They won't come to you.  But power means money and Fort Worth has some of these stakeholders (the Bass family and the like).  Obviously dollar signs are a powerful marketing tool in the sports world.  So you need a persuasive marketing portfolio to show potential revenues.  Of course it helps greatly to already have a venue facility such as AT&T Stadium.

 

Which sport is more desirable than another is outside my scope of knowledge.  But whichever sport is naturally going to be competitive with the Dallas identity...pro football, hockey, basketball, except for baseball (but I douibt if you can bring in another major league team to Tarrant County to compete with the Rangers).  I would think the most likely obstacle to bringing in a Fort Worth or Tarrant County sports team to compete with the Cowboys, Stars, and Mavericks, is the Dallas sports establishment headed by Jerry Jones.

[JBB]

The dumbest and most ill purpose way to spend public money would be to subsidize professional sports owners who can afford to pay a commissioner an annual salary of $44 million dollars. 
 
 
Good luck selling that one to the citizentry.

I agree with this 100%, but as of now, it is the only way to get in the game. Until municipalities start standing up to teams en masse, I don't see it changing. The LA area being without a team for 20 years has given NFL teams a tremendous amount of leverage in the handout battle. Any time a city, county, or state balks at the money demands of a team, they threaten to relocate to LA and said entity typically caves. Miami-Dade recently refused to fund renovations to the Dolphins stadium, even in the face of the league threatening to not hold another Super Bowl there until the stadium is renovated.

It's a pretty easy sell to the citizenry, given the fact that voter referendums on sports facilities rarely (if ever) fail. This happens time and time again despite study after study showing that the return on investment is almost non-existent, the economic impact is often grossly overstated, and the promised development in the areas surrounding the stadiums and arenas rarely comes to fruition.

[Jeriat]

The Rangers are going to be the next opportunity since their lease will run out in 9 years. I think that FW would be foolish to not make a play for getting the stadium, but, as I've said before, that fight is Arlington's to lose.

 

I'm still sticking by my "trade off" idea until 2024.

 

Put the Rangers in a built-up, renovated LaGrave Field

Give the Cats to Arlington, KEEP The Ballpark but downsize it to minor league standards and maybe reuse the rest of it as retail and restaurants... like *a mall/ballpark hybrid.

 

*not to be confused with Yankee Stadium, a.k.a. "Yankee Mall" 

[JBB]

I'm going to assume you're half-joking. LaGrave has a nice location and is perfect for its role, but it's just a step above a really good little league field.

[Jeriat]

I'm going to assume you're half-joking. LaGrave has a nice location and is perfect for its role, but it's just a step above a really good little league field.

 

Why do you say that?

I don't see much wrong with it.

[Austin55]

The little league fields here in Mansfield at the fields of dreams complex are better than Lagrave.

[JBB]

Austin stole the point I was going to make. Big League Dreams in Mansfield is nicer than LaGrave. You couldn't simply renovate and make it major league ready. For one, the field Globe Life, like most major league parks, is 50 feet below street level with multiple stories of infrastructure and support space beneath that. Then there's the suite space, club space, and concourses, none of which LaGrave is equipped with to handle for a crowd of 40k+. You would be better off demolishing LaGrave and building new.

Don't get me wrong. LaGrave is great for independent league ball. But it's probably barely adequate for actual MLB affiliated minor league ball. The stadium on Staten Island for the Yankees short season A league (second lowest level in the minors) affiliate makes LaGrave look like a trailer park.

[Jeriat]

Austin stole the point I was going to make. Big League Dreams in Mansfield is nicer than LaGrave. You couldn't simply renovate and make it major league ready. For one, the field Globe Life, like most major league parks, is 50 feet below street level with multiple stories of infrastructure and support space beneath that. Then there's the suite space, club space, and concourses, none of which LaGrave is equipped with to handle for a crowd of 40k+. You would be better off demolishing LaGrave and building new.

Don't get me wrong. LaGrave is great for independent league ball. But it's probably barely adequate for actual MLB affiliated minor league ball. The stadium on Staten Island for the Yankees short season A league (second lowest level in the minors) affiliate makes LaGrave look like a trailer park.

 

That's kinda what I'm saying we should do with LaGrave... Personally, I think it's fine, but that's beside the point. 

I don't see how you couldn't take what's there and just expand on it. You already have part of the 1st tier ready. So what would need to happen:

- Expand the field's dimensions. Which would also mean...
- Demolish the existing outfield bleachers and scoreboard, replacing them with new outfield seats, bullpens, etc. 

- Add the 2nd tier and make it an open concourse, since that seems to be the best way to go now a days, then stack suites on top of that.

- Add a 3rd tier, with press boxes. And with that 3rd tier, do something that a lot of MLB parks are doing now... adding a "party deck" 

- Then of course, new lights, new concourses, new scoreboard.

 

And I don't believe all major pro stadiums are built with the first section underground. I know Reliant Stadium and AT&T Park in San Francisco are at least mostly built with the surface on ground level. 

 

[Dylan]

As someone pointed out in another thread, LaGrave Field is in a bad location for an MLS stadium. To get to/from the nearest freeway (35W), downtown, or the stockyards, you have to get on N Main St. Can you imagine tens of thoudands of cars cramming onto N Main before and after a game?

[Now in Denton]

I believe now is the time for Fort Worth to get ready. Is Dallas going to try to get the Rangers someday ? Heck yea they are ! The Rangers were first in the area. But I think the Rangers will  want to get out of the Cowboy's franchise international shadow. Plus the Cowboys already has built in plans for AT&T stadium renovations before it was built. So Cowboys are committed with Arlington for a very very long time ! Bob Simpson is Fort Worth ace card to bring the Rangers to Fort Worth. I just hope he has a Daughter or Son. Who like to take over someday and be pro-Fort Worth. With FC Dallas soccer in Collin Co. Mavs &Stars in Dallas. Cowboys in Arlington, TMS in Denton.  Fort Worth sounds like one missing puzzle. Rangers is the answer. Fort Worth one last real chance to get a pro sports team.

[Dallastar]

I would also look at the opportunity to start or relocate a WNBA or AFL franchise as well, with average attendance around 10,000 and 8500 respectively, it could add  to the experience in downtown Ft. Worth, creating more possibilities.

[Austin55]

I think Fort Worth is smart to market TCU as our go to team. Austin does'nt have or need any sports teams because A&M UT IS their team. With TCU in the Big 12 for a few years now, and they are clearly good (last nights game eh?) they could really take charge as our team. 

 

It's interesting though to look at some of the other Metroplex teams, just a few that I can think of that play around here,

 

Dallas Cowboys (NFL)-Arlington

Texas Rangers (MLB)-Arlington

Dallas Mavericks (NBA)-Dallas

Dallas Stars (NHL)-Dallas

FC Dallas (MLS)-Frisco

Texas Revolution (CIF)-Allen

Dallas Diamonds (WFA)-Bedford

Grand Prairie Airhogs (AAIPB)-Grand Prairie

Frisco Roughriders (AA)-Frisco

Texas Legends (D-League) Frisco

Texas Brahmas (CHL)-North Richland Hills 

Allen Americans (CHL)-Allen

Texas Tornado (NAHL)-Frisco

Fort Worth Cats (ULB)-Fort Worth

 

So 1 for 14 isnt to bad! And the Cats... well I love them but they aren't big time by any means. Either way, Frisco seems to have won the pro sports division of the Metroplex, one of each of the major sports. 

 

There are also other big venues, Fort Worth having the Byron Nelson and TMS.

[renamerusk]

I think Fort Worth is smart to market TCU as our go to team. Austin does'nt have or need any sports teams because A&M IS thier team. With TCU in the Big 12 for a few years now, and they are clearly good (last nights game eh?) they could really take charge as our team. 

 

There are also other big venues, Fort Worth having the Byron Nelson and TMS.

 

 Coach Patterson (TCU) always brands TCU and Fort Worth as one in the same.  He constantly reiterates that TCU represents the city and its people;and emphasizes that his team needs and wants the hometown's support. I strongly and pridefully share Coach Patterson's vision..

 

Oops! ...."Fort Worth having the Byron Nelson...."

[Austin55]

Not just Paterson though, the baseball team has had a few trips to Omaha in the past few years. 

[Dylan]

I think Fort Worth is smart to market TCU as our go to team. Austin does'nt have or need any sports teams because A&M IS thier team. With TCU in the Big 12 for a few years now, and they are clearly good (last nights game eh?) they could really take charge as our team. 

 

Huh?

[Austin55]

ohhhh yea that was a mistake. Apologies for nearly starting WWIII. 

[FWFD1247]

And you forgot our beloved new soccer team the Vaqueros!

[Jeriat]

I think Fort Worth is smart to market TCU as our go to team. Austin does'nt have or need any sports teams because A&M UT IS their team. With TCU in the Big 12 for a few years now, and they are clearly good (last nights game eh?) they could really take charge as our team. 

 

It's interesting though to look at some of the other Metroplex teams, just a few that I can think of that play around here,

 

Dallas Cowboys (NFL)-Arlington

Texas Rangers (MLB)-Arlington

Dallas Mavericks (NBA)-Dallas

Dallas Stars (NHL)-Dallas

FC Dallas (MLS)-Frisco

Texas Revolution (CIF)-Allen

Dallas Diamonds (WFA)-Bedford

Grand Prairie Airhogs (AAIPB)-Grand Prairie

Frisco Roughriders (AA)-Frisco

Texas Legends (D-League) Frisco

Texas Brahmas (CHL)-North Richland Hills 

Allen Americans (CHL)-Allen

Texas Tornado (NAHL)-Frisco

Fort Worth Cats (ULB)-Fort Worth

 

So 1 for 14 isnt to bad! And the Cats... well I love them but they aren't big time by any means. Either way, Frisco seems to have won the pro sports division of the Metroplex, one of each of the major sports. 

 

There are also other big venues, Fort Worth having the Byron Nelson and TMS.

 

One big difference is that UT athletics have OWNED Austin for decades. TCU really hasn't because of the fact that there are pro sports in our area. We're also in a much larger metro, so it's much easier for Austin to be a college sports town than Fort Worth. Although I see the Frogs as "the Home Team" as it has been marketed, I still think we could at least have one of the major pro sports in this town.

 

 

And you forgot our beloved new soccer team the Vaqueros!

 

I think with enough support, money, and the right ownership, the Vaqueros could move up to NASL, 2nd highest division of soccer in this country. I'd just wish they would play in Farrington Field instead of LaGrave. There's just something not right about soccer in baseball parks. Football can get away with it, but soccer just doesn't feel the same.

[Jeriat]

I think I'll make another thread pointing out possible sites for a MLB park, same as how I made one for a Soccer Specific Stadium site.

[RD Milhollin]

I can't see Farrington Field as a professional team's home field unless you can get FWISD a new stadium, or two. The NASL season is in full swing right now but so is high school football. In Texas guess which is going to win out. You might as well suggest that the Vaqs use Amon Carter Stadium... If the franchise is to succeed that will need to build their own stadium at some point. Although I have absolutely no pull whatsoever with the team and it's management, I would like to see such a facility at the Eastside/Gateway (Riverside and I-30) location you identified in the other thread. 

[Jeriat]

I can't see Farrington Field as a professional team's home field unless you can get FWISD a new stadium, or two. The NASL season is in full swing right now but so is high school football. In Texas guess which is going to win out. You might as well suggest that the Vaqs use Amon Carter Stadium... If the franchise is to succeed that will need to build their own stadium at some point. Although I have absolutely no pull whatsoever with the team and it's management, I would like to see such a facility at the Eastside/Gateway (Riverside and I-30) location you identified in the other thread. 

 

I really don't think you have to.

It's not uncommon for soccer stadiums to also have high school/college football. Toyota Stadium hosts several Frisco high school games as well as FC Dallas. BBVA Compass in Houston has hosted high school games and TSU football is a tenant (and good for them, because they have NO stadium to speak of) so I wouldn't worry about that. If anything, it just makes the stadium even more valuable to host more than just high school football games.

 

Just a few other "soccer specific stadiums" that really aren't as soccer specific outside of the two I already mentioned:

 - Columbus Crew Stadium / hosts: Columbus Crew matches, rugby, lacrosse, Westerville Football Classic (high school football), and concerts
 - Dick's Sporting Goods Park / hosts: Colorado Rapids matches, lacrosse, rugby, and concerts

 - PPL Park / hosts: Philadelphia Union matches, Collegiate Rugby Championship, Villanova football and other college football games, and lacrosse
 - Rio Tinto Stadium / hosts: Real SL matches, rugby, the annual XFINITY High School Football Challenge, and concerts
 - StubHub Center / hosts: L.A. Galaxy & Chivas matches, rugby, X Games events, concerts, the Reebok Crossfit Games, several fighting events (MMA & boxing) and the California H.S. Football State Championships
 

[Austin55]

I really would like a good multiuse stadium that can host football and soccer, but concerts to. LaGrave can, but I've heard it's not a great venue.

 

 

And you forgot our beloved new soccer team the Vaqueros!

 

I sure did, I went off this list. http://en.wikipedia....as_sports_teams

 

There's 3 NPSL teams in DFW, Fort Worth Vaqueros, Dallas City FC (Lewisville) and the liverpool Warriors (who play in either Plano, Lewisville, or Denton)

[renamerusk]

 

I can't see Farrington Field as a professional team's home field unless you can get FWISD a new stadium, or two. The NASL season is in full swing right now but so is high school football.... If the franchise is to succeed that will need to build their own stadium....

 

I really don't think you have to.

It's not uncommon for soccer stadiums to also have high school/college football......If anything, it just makes the stadium even more valuable to host more than just high school football games.

 

I just think that you answered my question.   FWISD is in possession of several value pieces of real estate, and yet, it is not in possession of some valuable common economic sense.  For what FWISD could get for its FF land in development/parking, it could build create one of the best athletic complexes in the region in Forest Hills.

[Jeriat]

 

 

I can't see Farrington Field as a professional team's home field unless you can get FWISD a new stadium, or two. The NASL season is in full swing right now but so is high school football.... If the franchise is to succeed that will need to build their own stadium....

 

I really don't think you have to.

It's not uncommon for soccer stadiums to also have high school/college football......If anything, it just makes the stadium even more valuable to host more than just high school football games.

 

I just think that you answered my question.   FWISD is in possession of several value pieces of real estate, and yet, it is not in possession of some valuable common economic sense.  For what FWISD could get for its FF land in development/parking, it could build create one of the best athletic complexes in the region in Forest Hills.

 

 

And if this were to become a reality...

 

 

I would definately be in favor of converting Farrington into a soccer specific stadium. The south end could be interesting with a stage-like end that could also hold temporary seating, if needed. The complex would bring so much to that area...

[Jimmy]

I'd love to get the Rangers over in Fort Worth, though I'd expect a MAJOR fight from both Dallas and Arlington on that front.

 

MLS would be fun, too, although I'm not sure the league sees DFW as a two-franchise market and my guess would be that they see Austin or San Antonio as much more viable options for a third franchise in Texas.

 

As Austin55 mentioned, Fort Worth's sporting identity really rests with TCU.  

[Jeriat]

I'd love to get the Rangers over in Fort Worth, though I'd expect a MAJOR fight from both Dallas and Arlington on that front.

 

MLS would be fun, too, although I'm not sure the league sees DFW as a two-franchise market and my guess would be that they see Austin or San Antonio as much more viable options for a third franchise in Texas.

 

As Austin55 mentioned, Fort Worth's sporting identity really rests with TCU.  

 

We could make a deal/trade with Arlington. 

As for Dallas... well, they have PLENTY already, so I really care nothing for what they want. 

[FWFD1247]

I would like to "own" the concept of a home team potentially for MLS. Seattle Sounders currently have the strongest crowd with an attendance of 42,000 per game and second is LA Galaxy with an average attendance of 21,000. I believe with the growing popularity of Soccer in the U.S., it could very well be our niche. Not to mention how big a "Trinity Cup" could potentially be.
Just an idea, I am currently in Seattle and love that it seems like everyone here has so much pride for the "home" teams which is awesome, andales me quite envious! Not to mention the amount of construction here, the demand for high rises, and the various forms of transportation (But that's all for others forums,)