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#1 Austin55

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Posted 06 February 2018 - 11:31 AM

A new proposal, coming from the general fund sales tax instead of CCPD funds, is being disscused.

http://amp.star-tele...impression=true

#2 txbornviking

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Posted 06 February 2018 - 11:39 AM

My favorite quote from this:
"Moon and Councilman Brian Byrd are on the agenda to talk about a proposed ballot referendum on transit funding.

Byrd said Monday he was unaware of that..."

Yea, this doesn't seem a half-baked idea at all. I think we can all agree improved funding for FWTA is important. We can debate the merits of the T Master Plan, but it seems Moon may be trying to "wing it" presently.

 

Maybe I'm just overly skeptical based on his previous "no-shows" for transit debates. As with anything, the devil will be in the details... next Tuesday is the latest the council could propose adding this to the May ballot.



#3 PeopleAreStrange

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Posted 06 February 2018 - 07:46 PM

Does the state allow one-cent "general fund" sales taxes to be diverted to services like transit?

 

I'm not aware of a city that has less than one full cent going towards their general fund. If it's possible, that's great news.


- Dylan


#4 Electricron

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Posted 06 February 2018 - 10:55 PM

Does the state allow one-cent "general fund" sales taxes to be diverted to services like transit?

 

I'm not aware of a city that has less than one full cent going towards their general fund. If it's possible, that's great news.

I don't think the State law allows the City to tell the State to send any of the first 1% to anything but itself, but there is nothing in the State law telling the City what it can and can not do with it. It's the second 1% where the City can ask the State to dedicate and send sales tax revenues to another government agency, like a transit authority, hospital district, or police fund. State law limits what that second 1% can go, but the first 1% can go anywhere.

 

While the City might find it easier to send some of its first 1% to FWTA, the City can just as easily take it back at any time on the political winds of the moment putting FWTA in a financial crunch if they had already spent money, or sold bonds, to support transit expansion with future expected revenues that aren't coming. This solution only works if FWTA remains on a cash only basis, and nevers borrows money from banks or sell bonds to speculators to raise cash now. Without the ability to borrow money or sell bonds, whatever FWTA will build will be relatively small in scope or delayed until it can save up the funds over many years to build a more expensive project.

 

The State already has implemented a better solution for transit agencies where the money can't be easily taken from them, a portion or all of that second 1% sales taxes dedicated and sent directly to them without the City touching it. 

 

Basically, this new City solution to grant more revenues to FWTA means it will never ever be completely independent from the city politics and under the rule of the city council. Maybe that is a good idea, maybe it is a bad idea. What do you think?



#5 PeopleAreStrange

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Posted 07 February 2018 - 09:24 AM

I'd rather take the quarter cent from the CCPD fund, but an election to do that would probably fail. I've already seen and heard comments along the lines of: "they want to take money from something that fights crime and give it to something that increases crime."

 

I'm a bit confused by what Cary Moon wants. Originally, he wanted an election for $1.2 billion of rail expansion. Now he wants an election for a quarter-cent sales tax (which would dramatically improve bus service and commuter rail schedules), but from a source that can't go directly towards a transit agency.


- Dylan


#6 Austin55

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Posted 07 February 2018 - 09:25 AM

I'm sitting at the T board meeting and it starts in 5 mins so maybe we'll know more shortly !

#7 JBB

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Posted 07 February 2018 - 10:44 AM

I'm a bit confused by what Cary Moon wants.


He wants this to go away so quickly that no one figures out that he's trying to make it go away.

#8 Austin55

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Posted 07 February 2018 - 03:56 PM

Reporting back from the meeting, Electricron pretty much nailed everything. There's no need for a referundum since the city already has the money and is spending it, Moon basically just wants a vote to help decide if the public wants them to spend the money that way.

Everyone (Moon and FWTA Board) assured everyone that the CCPD was not going to be touched.

#9 Austin55

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Posted 08 February 2018 - 07:21 PM

NBC ran a story on the topic

https://www.nbcdfw.c...impression=true

#10 PeopleAreStrange

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Posted 08 February 2018 - 07:39 PM

Are all board meetings open to the public? Looks like I should've gone.

 

I'm thinking about doing a news package on this if it's placed on the ballot.


- Dylan


#11 txbornviking

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Posted 09 February 2018 - 09:00 AM

Are all board meetings open to the public? Looks like I should've gone.

 

I'm thinking about doing a news package on this if it's placed on the ballot.

 

In my experience all board meetings are open to the public, unless they are in "executive session" which is a rare occurrence. Video of the meeting is also posted online typically within a few days of the meeting if you care to watch that.

 

For everyone reading this, if you care about funding for FWTA, or even how that funding is derived, PLEASE email your council-member and the mayor this weekend to let them know your thoughts.



#12 claxton

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Posted 16 March 2018 - 04:43 PM

Always something with transit funding.

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=dtl9ZqsSc-8



#13 John T Roberts

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Posted 16 March 2018 - 06:27 PM

Just think how great this city could have been if the Leonard's subway had been our starter system in 1980.



#14 renamerusk

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Posted 16 March 2018 - 08:05 PM

Just think how great this city could have been if the Leonard's subway had been our starter system in 1980.

 

 The bones are still in place.  Grade at Taylor Street and southward; sub grade to Panther Island and beyond.



#15 PeopleAreStrange

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Posted 16 March 2018 - 08:07 PM

Would've been nice to see a map of the proposal in the story. Well, maybe not. I'd be jealous and disappointed we didn't have such a system.

 

Although the Leonard's subway was touted as a subway, it was actually a light rail line with overhead wires.

 

Our underground light rail line could've been expanded into suburban areas more easily than an actual subway.


- Dylan


#16 Austin55

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Posted 16 March 2018 - 08:20 PM

Would've been nice to see a map of the proposal in the story. Well, maybe not. I'd be jealous and disappointed we didn't have such a system.

 

This probably gives a good idea

 

https://www.dropbox....Subway.pdf?dl=0



#17 PeopleAreStrange

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Posted 16 March 2018 - 08:35 PM

It's been a while since I've seen that.


- Dylan


#18 PeopleAreStrange

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Posted 16 March 2018 - 10:12 PM

Since we're talking about light rail on the forum today, it's worth mentioning that Charlotte (NC) opened a light rail extension today.

 

Charlotte is similar to Fort Worth in city and metro population. The Blue Line and TEX Rail are a bit different, though. The Blue Line runs much more frequently, but is shorter and doesn't serve its airport.


- Dylan


#19 Electricron

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Posted 17 March 2018 - 01:20 AM

Since we're talking about light rail on the forum today, it's worth mentioning that Charlotte (NC) opened a light rail extension today.

 

Charlotte is similar to Fort Worth in city and metro population. The Blue Line and TEX Rail are a bit different, though. The Blue Line runs much more frequently, but is shorter and doesn't serve its airport.

TexRail follows railroad corridors almost all the way. for 24.6 miles of its initial 27.2 miles,  around 90%. When the southern leg's miles is added, it would be  37.4 miles of a proposed planned 40 miles, around 93%.

Charolette's Blue Line follows railroad corridors most of the way as well, for 15.7 miles of its total 19.7 miles, around 80%.

 

While Charlotte's Blue Line runs through uptown much like DART's light rail lines through downtown, the corridor used in both cases was mostly a railroad corridor. at some point in the past.  With 20% of the line in Charolette not aligned in a railroad corridor, light rail is more appropriate running in city streets for around 4 miles; whereas the 2.6 miles TexRail isn't aligned to a railroad corridor its running over mostly prairies in DFW property. commuter rail is more appropriate. Faster average speeds of commuter rail over 27 miles ( all running away from downtown) is more approriate than the relatively slower average speeds of light rail over 19 miles (with just 10 miles running away from uptown). 

 

Per Wiki, Charolette's Blue Line daily ridership was 17,100 before the newest extension, TexRail projects a daily ridership around 

9,000. Charolette's Blue Line projects daily ridership around 51,000 in 2030 while TexRail projects daily ridership around 14,700 in 2035. Charolette projected just as much ridership from the northern city neighborhoods as it sees from its southern city neighborhoods.  The ride from DFW to downtown will be three times larger in distance than the ride of the either termini to uptown in Charolette.

 

A law of physics  we should not dismiss follows:

Speed = Distance / Time. Solving for Time:

Speed/Distance = 1/Time,

Therefore Time = Distance/Speed.

Charollette = ~10 miles  =  ~30 minutes (assuming average speed of 20 mph)

Fort Worth = ~30 miles = ~60 minutes (assuming average speed of 30 mph)

If TexRail average the same speed as light rail systems usually run, it would take 90 minutes to travel DFW to downtown. 

 

That's why commuter rail is more appropriate for Fort Worth's TexRail and light rail is more appropriate for Charolette's Lynx. 



#20 tamtagon

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Posted 17 March 2018 - 07:25 AM

I'm still unhappy the state dedicates so little funding to urban rail projects. 



#21 PeopleAreStrange

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Posted 17 March 2018 - 09:02 PM

 

Since we're talking about light rail on the forum today, it's worth mentioning that Charlotte (NC) opened a light rail extension today.

 

Charlotte is similar to Fort Worth in city and metro population. The Blue Line and TEX Rail are a bit different, though. The Blue Line runs much more frequently, but is shorter and doesn't serve its airport.

TexRail follows railroad corridors almost all the way. for 24.6 miles of its initial 27.2 miles,  around 90%. When the southern leg's miles is added, it would be  37.4 miles of a proposed planned 40 miles, around 93%.

Charolette's Blue Line follows railroad corridors most of the way as well, for 15.7 miles of its total 19.7 miles, around 80%.

 

While Charlotte's Blue Line runs through uptown much like DART's light rail lines through downtown, the corridor used in both cases was mostly a railroad corridor. at some point in the past.  With 20% of the line in Charolette not aligned in a railroad corridor, light rail is more appropriate running in city streets for around 4 miles; whereas the 2.6 miles TexRail isn't aligned to a railroad corridor its running over mostly prairies in DFW property. commuter rail is more appropriate. Faster average speeds of commuter rail over 27 miles ( all running away from downtown) is more approriate than the relatively slower average speeds of light rail over 19 miles (with just 10 miles running away from uptown). 

 

Per Wiki, Charolette's Blue Line daily ridership was 17,100 before the newest extension, TexRail projects a daily ridership around 

9,000. Charolette's Blue Line projects daily ridership around 51,000 in 2030 while TexRail projects daily ridership around 14,700 in 2035. Charolette projected just as much ridership from the northern city neighborhoods as it sees from its southern city neighborhoods.  The ride from DFW to downtown will be three times larger in distance than the ride of the either termini to uptown in Charolette.

 

A law of physics  we should not dismiss follows:

Speed = Distance / Time. Solving for Time:

Speed/Distance = 1/Time,

Therefore Time = Distance/Speed.

Charollette = ~10 miles  =  ~30 minutes (assuming average speed of 20 mph)

Fort Worth = ~30 miles = ~60 minutes (assuming average speed of 30 mph)

If TexRail average the same speed as light rail systems usually run, it would take 90 minutes to travel DFW to downtown. 

 

That's why commuter rail is more appropriate for Fort Worth's TexRail and light rail is more appropriate for Charolette's Lynx. 

 

 

FWIW, the DART orange line to downtown is about 50 minutes (seems like it used to take longer); TEX Rail to the ITC should be around 48 minutes.

 

TEX Rail is commuter rail largely because of cost. Double tracking and overhead wires are expensive.

 

Expensive light rail isn't as practical where density is low and stations are far apart. The TEX Rail corridor isn't very dense.


- Dylan


#22 Electricron

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Posted 18 March 2018 - 02:14 AM

FWIW, the DART orange line to downtown is about 50 minutes (seems like it used to take longer); TEX Rail to the ITC should be around 48 minutes.

 

TEX Rail is commuter rail largely because of cost. Double tracking and overhead wires are expensive.

 

Expensive light rail isn't as practical where density is low and stations are far apart. The TEX Rail corridor isn't very dense.

 

DART's Orange line is only 19 miles from DFW to downtown Dallas as I estimate from.

Wiki suggests the entire Orange line from Parker Road in Plano to DFW is 37 miles.

https://en.wikipedia...Rapid_Transit)\

by roughly estimating downtown Dallas splits the line in half.....

 

Doing the math once again, 19 miles / 25 mph average  =- 45 minutes., which is pretty close to the 50 minutes you posted earlier.  FWIW, It'll be interesting what the exact distance was from DFW to downtown Dallas,  I only estimated. 

 

Additionally, there are two sections of railroad where the Orange line has ~5 miles between train stations (#1 DFW property and #2 Crossing the Trinity River). 5 miles station spacing is more like commuter rail spacing than light rail, but in these two instances there's nobody living there for a station to serve.



#23 Austin55

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Posted 23 March 2018 - 02:18 PM

I cant remember which thread we had talked about federal levels of funding transit but the omnibus looks like actually good news.

 

https://twitter.com/...615050923429889



#24 ramjet

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Posted 02 April 2018 - 01:47 PM

Since we're talking about light rail on the forum today, it's worth mentioning that Charlotte (NC) opened a light rail extension today.

 

Charlotte is similar to Fort Worth in city and metro population.

 

An interesting counterpoint on mass transit from Nashville, a city also similar to Fort Worth in population:

 

https://www.tennesse...ille/463772002/



#25 txbornviking

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Posted 03 April 2018 - 09:55 AM

seems the city is looking to use some CCPD funds to support nonprofit proposals for reducing crime and violence.

http://fortworthtexa...4/ccpd-funding/

 

Anyone know of any studys etc linking improved public transportation to reducing crime and violence? Lord knows access to employment is a huge aid in reducing both of those. Improving transit options can improve employment options as well.

 

Long shot I'm sure, buy maybe, just maybe there's a little option here to get some CCPD funds to help better Trinity Metro.



#26 John T Roberts

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Posted 04 April 2018 - 07:35 PM

It would be nice.  I would like to see more money coming into transit.






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