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Central Tourism District

Redefinding the CBD

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#151 renamerusk

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Posted 12 December 2019 - 08:55 PM

 

..... But, despite extensive discussion here from proponents and opponents of a downtown aimed at  tourists and permanent residents, it's still a central business district.  It  needs a strong office and retail market.  


That the hotel and residential markets are keen to come into Downtown, while at the same time, employment is leaving or remaining static is a sign that Fort Worth is headed in the correct direction.....Even though it still seems like a central business district, the future business of Downtown will be tourism, residential, hospitality and entertainment.

 

  Table Tennis World Championship - "What sort of company is Fort Worth in by hosting this tournament? Seamaster table tennis championships are held around the world in locations such as Qatar, Doha, Budapest, Hungary, Hong Kong, China and Stockholm, Sweden. In other words, some pretty cool places, which, of course, Fort Worth itself is".

 

Fort Worth Business Press - http://www.fortworth...8314624484.html

 

 

Houston too.  https://www.teamusa....st-Time-in-2021



#152 renamerusk

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Posted 04 February 2020 - 11:45 PM

I had not considered that the tourist attraction that would foster Fort Worth's hospitality push would actually be touring the hotel...In any case, these are for sure good stories to have associated with our city.

 

I expect that the stories may be as much about planting the seeds of a high tech / high amenity hospitality services business to replicate what is going on in this hotel to other properties -- but that's a good thing too -- we shall hope that the company that does that locates in our city.

 

 This is indicative of what "hospitality" can do overall - provide exposure to an audience who might be taking a look at Fort Worth for the first time or rethinking about Fort Worth as a place to pursue a variety of investments.   However, exactly how the high tech/high amenity features of SH will be a determining factor is a connection that needs some further explaining.
 



#153 bclaridge

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Posted 07 February 2020 - 08:22 PM

I'll just add that improving the amenities available downtown (even if geared towards tourists) might encourage some, but not all, business to return to downtown.  A vibrant urban environment might attract a younger company (such as a somewhat-mature start-up) or a company looking to expand and become more attractive to talent from the younger generations entering the workforce.

 

I would personally like to see TPG Capital taking one of the companies in their portfolio (that they have a majority ownership of) and encouraging them to expand by having offices in downtown Fort Worth.  Doesn't mean that will happen, but a move by a prominent institutional investor could be a game-changer.  I mention TPG specifically as they are an investment capital firm with a significant Fort Worth presence (due to Bass family connections, though they are also based in San Francisco).


Sydney B. Claridge

Proud Horned Frog (TCU Class of 2017) and lifelong Fort Worth resident with a hobby interest in urban planning and design.

Please consider following my Instagram page!  I take a lot of pictures of scenery and urban environments, in addition to my interests in fashion.


#154 renamerusk

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Posted 07 February 2020 - 11:08 PM

1.  I'll just add that improving the amenities available downtown (even if geared towards tourists) might encourage some, but not all, business to return to downtown.  A vibrant urban environment might attract a younger company (such as a somewhat-mature start-up) or a company looking to expand and become more attractive to talent from the younger generations entering the workforce.

 

2.  I would personally like to see TPG Capital taking one of the companies in their portfolio (that they have a majority ownership of) and encouraging them to expand by having offices in downtown Fort Worth......[TPG] also based in San Francisco.....

 

  1. Of course yes.  Who wouldn't like to work, all things being equal, in Downtown Fort Worth.  San Francisco is touristy and lovely, but it is also very expensive to live there and there was, when I have been there, a problem with vagrancy and some quite bizarre things that go on there. That aside, San Francisco is the seat of a region that includes UC Berkeley and Stanford and enjoys having a very large and most influential pool of high tech engineering firms and inventors.  Also, San Francisco is the gateway to Asia.  

 

2. In Fort Worth's favor is its cost of living which is really attractive; and now its energized emphasis upon its tourism and cultural assets.  I do think that there is a crossroad where the increasingly rising cost of SF living:cultural ratio v/v the FW living:cultural ratio produces the opportunity for a more expanded Fort Worth TPG.

 

 
 



#155 renamerusk

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Posted 14 February 2020 - 05:36 PM

 

High end retail keeps coming, but where?

 

Fort Worth Business Press - http://www.fortworth...70f47fac12.html

 

I'm saying it and Downtown has to be feeling it; the competition is bruising Downtown.  And Henry S.Miller is ending it security operations. :unsure:

 

1. That isn't what Downtown's Market is.  High End Retail needs to be patronized by high end shoppers to keep them afloat throughout the year.  

 

2. I know you have mentioned on several occasions that you want downtown to be considered the Central Tourism District but tourists cannot and will not support high end retail year round.  You have to choose a lane with what you want out of downtown. 

 

3. I am in downtown several days a week and I don't notice any bruising going on downtown IMO.

 

 

 Taking somewhat out of order the points you are making, I will begin with:

 

 2.  Yes I am calling for Downtown to be more Central Tourism+Residential District.  It took me a while to sober up to the reality so starkly pointed out to me and which I now reluctantly see with more clarity that the Market has spoken rather convincingly. When it comes to the Office Construction that Fort Worth craves and when it is East v West the outcome is all but settled on the side of the East.

 

However, there is not a statement that can be attributed to me that suggests one or the other when it comes to Downtown, rather I maintain that there is room for both.

 

There are those who have taken the harden position that Downtown must be exclusively a place for office workers because that has always been the cas; and there are those who bemoan the idea of workers involve in tourism and hospitality because they are "lowly jobs".  I thought  that made much sense. Carefully choosing my words have been what I have done to make certain that I do not preclude the need for office construction while  also appreciating that tourism and hospitality can make Downtown vibrant and sustainable too.  I am on the records with words that count in the thousands that Fort Worth has to do what it can do for itself because the Market will, as it has demonstrated, pursue its own objectives. I have not veered into a different lane or have I entered a lane which is not consistent to what I have posted repeatedly over time and have repeatedly call for a mixed use project to compliment the tourism and hospitality goals of the City.

 

1. Downtown once was a place where every kind of retail could be found.  The decentralization of retail to malls started the exodus and perhaps the mall being in decline will be an opportunity to restore Downtown as a viable retail center.  Downtown retail can coexist and succeed with the help of hotels, residential and tourism.  Deciding that retailing is not apart of Downtown is something that you should provide proof of. There still exists a downtown NM which draws from people who are tourists, workers and residents of Downtown Dallas. So that the "never high end retail" argument can be laid to rest.

 

3. The usage of "bruising"  is metaphorical.  An ego is seldom noticeable and we are unlikely to actually know how Downtown (SSq) actually feels about "high end' retail choosing Clear Fork and West Bend or new restaurants openings in the Near South and FWSY.  However, if it were me and it was my competition, I would not be in a celebratory mood. 

 

For a long time, Downtown has been seen as the "Spot" for entertainment, find dining, and interesting shopping. Curiously, Downtown (SSq) has recently taken some unexpected steps to address its growing competition.  I am happy to see it making steps to up its game. I have said that the recent shake up has meaning beyond what is now evident; and for me that is notification enough that Downtown is feeling some hurt.  The adage "Fish or cut bait" come to mind.



#156 rriojas71

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Posted 18 February 2020 - 01:01 AM

^^. I work in Commercial Real Estate and believe me if a market is right for a specific business (high end retail) then those businesses would be there. That is all the proof that one needs to determine that. Getting into Downtown, navigating one way streets, trying to find parking and other various things associated with downtown are some reasons why it doesnt make sense. Retail is already at a point where consumers want hassle free online shopping and downtown doesnt provide that... not in the way retail businesses need to survive year round.

Your statement that downtown once was a place... should have ended there. The word Was is the problem. Was is not now and now people want something different than once was. Its not saying that in time retail, in the form you are referring to, cant return but downtown isnt there yet nor will it be anytime in the near future from what I can tell. I would love to be proved wrong though.

#157 renamerusk

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Posted 18 February 2020 - 01:41 AM

I can only assume that what you are saying is that the market is not right in Downtown Fort Worth at this time. 

 

It can not be true if for instance some cities have reached a point in their downtown that high end retail is there in spite of one way streets, parking and other things associated with downtown.  Of course, Fort Worth is behind in the critical  population mass for Downtown that retail businesses need to survive.

 

However, cities such as San Diego, Seattle, even Los Angeles and of course Chicago do have high end retail in Downtown.  How about Union Square in San Francisco; is there high end retail in SF Downtown? https://unionsquareshop.com/alpha.html

 

Lets assume that Fort Worth begins to grow its downtown population, add some more workers and  more tourists and convention goers; would you then find it possible that a high end retail as a component of a mixed use project could survive? What if Sundance Square captured a micro high end anchor on the ground floor of a mixed use project?  The key is to have the right store that would then attract shoppers.

 

As to your compound statement "downtown once was a place..should have ended there" goes, the fact that Sundance Square did successfully turn around downtown when it was thought to be an impossible and bygone way to do business by many real estate experts should give pause to some of their assumptions. I understand that downtown retail projects are challenging, but isn't doing nothing a recipe for sure to fail?

 

Now at a critical time where competition is becoming more fierce, Downtown Fort Worth has to always regularly be reborn again by giving new life to itself.  Absent of a commercial real estate boom, it seems to me that Downtown is in need of a proven high end retail district which presumably HSMiller has been brought in to do.  I think that this can be accomplished with a mixed use projects scaled appropriately to Downtown.



#158 rriojas71

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Posted 19 February 2020 - 01:09 PM

I lived in San Francisco for 14 years and Union Square is not technically Downtown although it is near downtown.  Union Square is a shopping district and you cannot compare downtown Fort Worth or any part of Fort Worth to San Francisco.  It is super dense and full of tourists year round, not to mention that there are actually thousands of residents living in the hundreds of residential buildings near Union Square.

 

It would be several years for Fort Worth to have a downtown to support the kind of shopping similar to that in the cities you mentioned.  San Diego doesn't have the same shopping scene downtown that the other 3 you mentioned do and would be the closest to FW but even SD's downtown feels massive compared to ours.  There are not very many empty parking lots in any of those cities.  Fort Worth can get there but it is a few years away in my opinion.

 

Sundance Square did turn around downtown but it took several years, almost 2 decades, to get it to where it is now.  Downtown has a ton of potential as we all know and it will continue to make strides.  Patience is the key.



#159 renamerusk

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Posted 19 February 2020 - 11:35 PM

No, I did not compare Fort Worth to San Francisco.

 

The roots of my disagreement with you are these two statements:

 

"Retail is already at a point where consumers want hassle free online shopping and downtown doesnt provide that... not in the way retail businesses need to survive year round".

 

"Your statement that downtown once was a place... should have ended there. The word Was is the problem. Was is not now and now people want something different than once was".

 

And though you did attempt to qualify them, they portray a sense of finality.    I believe that consumerism is base upon human behavior and if you provide the quality, consumers do respond whether in downtown or in malls, as Union Square illustrates.  Oh yeah, I read in a SF blog that generally speaking, most people in SF consider Union Square to be in downtown.   So, Downtown which was traditionally a retail center among others can be a retail center again given something to make the shopping experience unique. 

 

True, Fort Worth is lacking the mass downtown population but it is also moving in that direction and not away from it.  Sometimes you need the first big residential project; maybe the Commerce Street and Weatherford Street projects will become the catalyst projects to along with a number of residential projects that now exists and are scheduled to be delivered in a couple years. Also as Fort Worth expands its hotels and convention business in Downtown, it will also support retail.

 

The jest of this debate however comes down to whether the status quo in Downtown (Sundance Square) can continue much longer.  My opinion is while the City adds the infrastructure for tourism and hotel activity, Sundance Square will need to do something to address the fact that other centers are growing at its expense.



#160 roverone

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Posted 24 February 2020 - 03:23 PM

This is why I hold my concerns -- 6 month old article:

 

Study finds tourism industry pays lowest wages nationwide

 

https://phys.org/new...nationwide.html

 

Here is the thing -- Fort Worth is already struggling to pay for our very large infrastructure.

 

Based on this:

 

Living Wage Calculation for Tarrant County, Texas

 

https://livingwage.m.../counties/48439

 

Many of those jobs are just at a "living wage".

 

Just getting by does not leave much disposable income to boost our city's other businesses.

 

Yes, if we are full of tourists, maybe that can help.  Let's hope they are rich tourists who decided to stay in Fort Worth, instead of Dallas, for some reason.

 

The Fort Worth Hotel Occupancy Tax is among the highest, at 9% -- I think Dallas is 7% -- but of course this portion only recirculates into things directly related to the visitors, like the convention center, and promotion.



#161 renamerusk

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Posted 24 February 2020 - 06:54 PM

So let's take a look at the numbers:

 

Dallas - Dallas, TX | Data USA

 

Fort Worth - Fort Worth, TX | Data USA

 

I do know what we are doing to make a living, but it must be damn dang good! :swg:






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