35 replies to this topic

[JohnEric]

Great forum, I am pleased to have joined the group. I am a dealer of European antiquities and am called on quite often by friends to help determine the provenance and value of many things in their possession. Recently, a long time Fort Worth resident asked me about some architectural embellishments which they had stored many years ago and had lately decided to do a little detective work to determine their history. They believed thiese rather large (approximately 3 feet tall) elements had once adorned a downtown Fort Worth building that was demolished years ago. I have attached a photo file of same in the hopes that someone may know where thiese wonderful embellishments may have been located. They seem to be formed from terra cotta or a similar substance and made to appear granite like.


Thanks in advance for any information you may have to share.

John Eric

[John T Roberts]

Welcome to the forum. When I first read your post, I thought those were from the Aviation Building (demolished 1978), but after looking at the following photograph, I have decided that they did not go on that building.



As you can see, the designs are similar. Hopefully, some other historians might be able to determine the building where these were removed.

[gdvanc]

Those are great.

I flipped through some of the Jack White photos on John's main site hoping to see them. No luck, although the one at the top of the Egypt Theater looked close at first glance.

Is there anything we can tell based on the style and composition? Can we guess what period they would most likely have been used as architectural ornamentation in Fort Worth? Can we guess what architectural style or styles would most likely sport a couple of noggins such as these?

Any period costume people on tonight? What kind of head gear is that? Just curious.

[gdvanc]

JohnEric, take a look at this post: http://www.fortworth...m...ost&p=46020

[cbellomy]

gdvanc, wow, I think you hit paydirt! Here's the specific photo:

[gdvanc]

gdvanc, wow, I think you hit paydirt! Here's the specific photo:

Actually it was pnewburn that observed that the rock heads seemed to match. I just tried to get the two threads to reference each other.


A little later, when I have some free time, I'm going to kick myself in the fanny for not catching the match after looking through at least half of the Jack White photos on John's main site.

[John T Roberts]

Hey, I'm the one who deserves a good kick! I uploaded all of Jack White's photos to the site.

[safly]

FANTASTIC Sleuthing!

This would make a GREAT STORY for some JOURNALISTIC WEBSITES or PRINT MEDIA.

Perhaps a TV news spot.

Great job, I love it. And hope they go back on where they came from.

Interested in knowing more about how that FW Resi got a hold of em.

Great forum, I am pleased to have joined the group. I am a dealer of European antiquities and am called on quite often by friends to help determine the provenance and value of many things in their possession. Recently, a long time Fort Worth resident asked me about some architectural embellishments which they had stored many years ago and had lately decided to do a little detective work to determine their history. They believed thiese rather large (approximately 3 feet tall) elements had once adorned a downtown Fort Worth building that was demolished years ago. I have attached a photo file of same in the hopes that someone may know where thiese wonderful embellishments may have been located. They seem to be formed from terra cotta or a similar substance and made to appear granite like.


Thanks in advance for any information you may have to share.

John Eric

BEAUTIES!

[John T Roberts]

Even though we have linked these two threads together. I probably should go ahead and make a statement that ties these pieces to the actual building. These pieces appear to have come from the old Farmers & Mechanics National Bank Building. The building changed names from that to the Continental Life Building, then Transport Life, now 714 Main. The building is still standing and is undergoing what appears to be base restoration work by its new owner XTO Energy. I will get with XTO soon to tell them that some of the decorative parts to their building have been found intact.

[cbellomy]

John, between F&MNB and Continental Life, this building housed the Fort Worth National Bank, correct?

[John T Roberts]

Yes, it once housed the Fort Worth National Bank. I am now starting to put all of the former names of buildings in reverse order on the web site. The mosaic tile remodel occurred after the FWNB moved across the street in 1954.

[Dismuke]

Interested in knowing more about how that FW Resi got a hold of em.

Here is a guess: considering the mindset behind those responsible for the vandalization of that building's base and countless others during that period, some person here in Fort Worth who wasn't afraid to speak and act on his individual judgment probably thought it would be a shame for them to end up as landfill material which is what happened to all sorts of beautiful stuff on grounds that it was "old" and therefore bad. So the person probably asked for them - and the construction workers probably humored him accordingly. No doubt that this person was regarded as being a bit eccentric at best - a reactionary fuddy duddy who was not on board with the spirit of "progress" and had a lame sentimental attachment to such outdated concepts as beauty, craftsmanship and the bizarre notion that important buildings should be grand and actually LOOK like they are important. He was also right and those responsible for the vandalization, along with the dominant, trendy and "hip" and utterly bankrupt post World War II aesthetic mindset which motivated them, were dead wrong - something that becomes increasingly obvious with the passage of time.

[gdvanc]

... the construction workers probably humored him accordingly. No doubt that this person was regarded as being a bit eccentric at best - a reactionary fuddy duddy who was not on board with the spirit of "progress" and had a lame sentimental attachment to such outdated concepts as beauty, craftsmanship and the bizarre notion that important buildings should be grand and actually LOOK like they are important.

Oh, the condescension of those arrogant modernist construction workers and their Brutalist notions! Tools of Le Corbusier!

Intellectuals think they're so damned smart.

[Fort Worthology]

Actually, I tend to agree with Dismuke. Maybe not so much on the construction worker side, but there was a definite attitude amongst a lot of people back then about anything old automatically being bad and worthy of either covering up with concrete or mosaic tile, or complete demolition. I'd also agree with him that those people were flat-out wrong. Modernism was a cancer on the built environment. The fact that so many people today still support its teachings - and its bizarre modern offshoots - baffles me.

Err, yeah. Got a little off-topic there, I guess.

[AndyN]

Interested in knowing more about how that FW Resi got a hold of em.

Here is a guess: considering the mindset behind those responsible for the vandalization of that building's base and countless others during that period, some person here in Fort Worth who wasn't afraid to speak and act on his individual judgment probably thought it would be a shame for them to end up as landfill material which is what happened to all sorts of beautiful stuff on grounds that it was "old" and therefore bad.

That or perhaps he thought they would look cool in his garden.

[gdvanc]

Actually, I tend to agree with Dismuke. ...

I agree with him, too, about the attitudes and the odious architecture. I don't think the attitudes were common among average folk, though, except to the degree they bought into what was being pumped by the pumpers of architectural and artistic ideologies. Also probably some of that common yearning to be perceived to be as moderne as the next city or town.

And I don't think he was actually implying that it was the construction workers who condescended. The juxtaposition of the contruction workers and the snobbery, though, was just fun to play with.

[longhornz32]

That or perhaps he thought they would look cool in his garden.

I agree with you and that thought. If they cast one of these for the restoration I wonder how I might get the mold or a copy myself.

[safly]

If XTO or the bearer of these sculpture heads are to make some molds, then I will wait in line to buy one of them, a 1/4 scale though or some kinda gift shop pen that is to market this wonderful link to the city's architectural past.

Maybe XTO can design the EYE's to glow red or amber. COOL!
Or better yet, they should enclose one of the heads in glass once the front lobby of 714 MAIN is finished.

I love it because it somewhat reminds me of Tommy Trojan. FIGHT ON!

Quick John, let's get a "714 MAIN Romanesque Guard Mask EMOTICON" on this baby!

[JohnEric]

Thanks for the email John and fantastic job to you sleuths on the forum. I have been out of town and not checking the forum as of late, so I apologize for the tardy response to you gumshoes. Hopefully tomorrow I will be able to shed more light on the provenance and history as to how they were acquired. Thanks again for all the input and I will keep you all informed as to the future of these wonderful sculptural ornaments...John Eric antiquerevival@charter.net

[Dismuke]

And I don't think he was actually implying that it was the construction workers who condescended. The juxtaposition of the contruction workers and the snobbery, though, was just fun to play with.

When I wrote the comment I had two premises in mind:

1) That the construction workers might have had an attitude somewhat along the lines of an amused and friendly: "Look, mister, if we take the heads out in one piece and set them aside for you, will you promise to quit pestering us and let us get back to work?"

2) Because of the attitudes of the time, the person wanting the heads might very well not have even needed to bother to contact the owners of the building in order to get them. He could have just shown up at the very last minute on demolition day and simply ask nobody of higher authority than one of the hired hands on the construction crew who would have otherwise shattered them to bits minutes later.

As for my comment about the person being regarded as an eccentric fuddy duddy, I did not mean to imply that it was the construction workers who would regard him as that but rather the dominant mindset of the period. But I can see how they way I wrote it did not make that especially clear.

[Birdland in Handley]

If the heads were removed during a 1954 remodel we're just lucky that they were removed without damage and that someone was interested in carting them home. This thread can raise Solomon's Question discussions of ownership.
We have carted much less distinctive "rubble" home: a large hunk of the old main library acquired with a pickup truck and wheelbarrow and just a leeeetle bit of demolition fence crossing; and some nice slabs of the tile '"rug" that was the Reynolds House porch floor that was easily, mournfully gathered (Summit Ave. Disaster aka Reynold & Morton house demolitions). We can't resist bits of Fort Worth. They look cool in our garden

[Dismuke]

I don't think the attitudes were common among average folk, though, except to the degree they bought into what was being pumped by the pumpers of architectural and artistic ideologies. Also probably some of that common yearning to be perceived to be as moderne as the next city or town.

I agree in that I think that there were a lot of people who saw what was going on and privately hated it. But to the degree they would have spoken up about it, they would have been laughed down or met with derisive sneers. So, as a result, many people kept silent.

Furthermore, ordinary everyday people back then really did not have many opportunities to speak out. Sure, they could write a letter to the editor - which might have been published in a severely edited down version and then promptly forgotten about. Venues such as blogs, personal websites and forums such as this one simply did not exist. It wasn't until the proposal to destroy Grand Central Station came along before the voices of those who were disgusted with what was happening were able to come onto the radar.

Some of the reason certain people were reluctant to speak out, no doubt, was nothing more than cowardice - they were afraid that other people might disapprove so they sacrificed their own standards and judgment in order to appease the people around them. But I think there were a great many others who disagreed but found it a bit intimidating to speak out for reasons other than mere cowardice.

In the 1950s, there were plenty of old timers still around who came of age during the horse and buggy era. Those who did not witness first hand the breathtaking technological and economic progress that had taken place since then no doubt heard about it in detail from their parents and grandparents. "Progress" was something that people marveled at and were thankful for.

During the great skyscraper boom of the 1920s, when an older building was torn down, people usually did not talk about how beautiful the old building was or of the need for historical preservation. The only sadness that was usually expressed was the same emotion that people today speak with when they see the decline and most likely eventual demise of, say, Six Flags Mall. There is NOTHING special about Six Flags Mall from an architectural standpoint. But people have memories of spending time there during its heyday and thus have a sentimental fondness for it. So if/when the thing is knocked down, there will be people who will find it sad. That was pretty much the emotion expressed when old buildings were demolished in the 1920s. Back then, it was almost axiomatic that the new building that would replace it would be bigger, more grand, more beautiful and better in every way. And, during the 1920s, they usually were.

Whenever you read about people in the 1950s and 1960s expressing sadness about the destruction of beautiful old buildings and how the new ones were sterile and ugly, one almost always reads quotes where they immediately dismiss their aesthetic judgments with comments such as: "That's progress, I guess." or "You can't fight progress." They were brought up to regard anything put forth as "progress" as something to be valued and certainly never questioned. The problem is it apparently never occurred to many to ask: Is the new building they are putting up, in fact, progress? Or is it merely a pretentious fraud that is being perpetrated under the mantle of "progress"? Rather than having the intellectual confidence that their aesthetic judgment mighty actually be valid and correct and to stand by it, they automatically assumed that they must somehow be in the wrong and that their judgment was nothing more than the same subjective sentimentalism that people who were teenagers in the 1970s might feel for Six Flags mall.

There was also another factor that I think enabled the aesthetic fraud to be put over on people: People in the 1950s had an almost insatiable appetite for anything that was "new" - and for reasons which are entirely understandable.

If you look at the skyline photo of Fort Worth or almost any other big city from the early 1950s, you will find it almost unchanged from a skyline photo of the same city from the early 1930s when the last of the skyscrapers that were being planned when the crash of '29 occurred were completed.

The effects of the Depression lingered on throughout the entire 1930s decade and, contrary to the myth that "World War II got us out of the Depression" most people's standard of living actually went down further with the onset of World War II and the epidemic shortages and rationing. The problem during the Depression was many people lacked jobs and money to buy stuff with - though there was never a shortage of stuff to buy. During World War II, jobs were available and people had plenty of money, but they couldn't buy anything. Basic everyday items such as sugar, meat, gasoline and anything made out of rubber were in short supply and rationed. Other items such as automobiles and phonographs simply were not manufactured at all, their factories having been converted to war related manufacturing. Once the war was over, it took, in some cases, up to four years before the shortages came to an end and for all of the items which went out of production to come back.

So basically, adults of the early 1950s had gone through a period of almost 20 years having to deal with an environment of constant scarcity brought about by a bad economy followed by even more scarcity brought about by wartime shortages and rationing. During that period, a great many people considered themselves lucky if they had the ability to buy their basic necessities. For most people, making significant upgrades to their lifestyles, their furniture, their homes, etc. was simply out of the question. Items such as clothes, furniture and cars tended to be replaced only when they had completely worn out and usually at great hardship.

The same was true for businesses - it was often a challenge to simply keep the doors open. For example, most large hotels in the USA went though bankruptcy reorganization at some point during the 1930s and those that didn't struggled. During the 1930s hotels rarely spend money upgrading rooms and furniture as the wear and tear by the guests began to take its toll - and during the 1940s, it was impossible for them to upgrade because of the shortages. By contrast, a few years ago when they upgraded the furniture, carpet and wall paper in the rooms at the Blackstone, it was mentioned in the paper that Marriott requires all hotel operators to set aside a certain percentage of revenue in order to fund complete upgrades to all of the rooms every eight years. Imagine what a hotel would be like after 20 years of deferred maintenance. That was the state of many otherwise grand big city hotels in the years following World War II. Same was true with retail stores - think of the last time you walked into a store or restaurant that had obviously not been spruced up since 1988 or longer.

That was the state of pretty much everything in the country by the late 1940s. Then the improved economy of the 1950s arrived and many people, often for the very first time in their adult lives, suddenly had money to actually buy things beyond the bare necessities. After decades of living in a country that was having to "make do" with so many things left over from the prosperous years before 1929, the very LAST thing they wanted was more of the same. They did NOT regard the 1930s with fondness - they called them the "dirty '30s." And, as a result of the hardships of the '30s, many looked back on the prosperity and styles of the 1920s as an era of unrealistic frivolity.

People in the 1950s wanted something NEW and something DIFFERENT. They certainly got it. The problem is that, when the ONLY merit that something can claim to offer is the fact that it is "new" and "different" - well, chances are pretty good that it does not have a whole lot of merit to begin with.

The period in which one lives definitely DOES play a part in one's tastes and perspectives. In the 1950s, beautiful pre World War II buildings were as commonplace as ugly 1970s buildings are today - so I think that also desensitized a lot of people to what was happening right in front of them. Sometimes it is hard to appreciate that which one, unfortunately, takes for granted.

In my own case, when I was a child, the utter ugliness of the 1960s and 1970s was still a very much dominant part of everyday life. It wasn't just buildings, it was clothes, advertisements, furniture and even product labels that looked butt ugly and trashy. It was in that world that I discovered at more or less the same time old recordings, old photographs, old buildings and other surviving reminders of the world that existed prior to World War II. The contrast between the two worlds was, to me, simply incredible. For me, the emotional experience was as if I had suddenly discovered this wonderful, lost civilization that was, in so many ways, superior to the world around me. And, being a kid, I was eager to share that discovery with anybody who would listen to me gush on and on about it. I never really expected kids my own age to be enthusiastic about it - but what I could not understand at the time was how most grown ups, including those who were old enough to have lived in the "Golden Era," not only did not share my enthusiasm but were sometimes extremely dismissive of it. It wasn't until the Internet came along and I was an adult before I ran across others who shared my passion for the pre World War II decades - and the vast majority of them are NOT people who are older than myself. Most are around my age or younger. It would be accurate to say that my love for so much of the pre World War II decades is a direct result of my having grown up in the squalid aftermath of the late 1960s/1970s and the utter revulsion I felt for so much of it.

Today's enthusiasts of the 1920s and 1930s did not experience the hardships of those decades - such hardships are merely something one reads about in the history books. The aspects of those decades that people like myself are passionate about are the very things that people who lived back then took for granted - things that were destroyed or, at the very least, came under heavy assault in the decades following World War II. By contrast, during those same decades following World War II, many of the people who came of age in the late 1920s and the 1930s were so busy trying to enjoy the benefits of the first semblance of affluence they had ever experienced in their adult lives that they were too distracted to notice or care that the buildings being put up were sterile and ugly.



New York's Roxy Theatre


Roxy Theatre Lobby


Movie star Gloria Swanson, who DID have an appreciation for the Golden Era she was part of, posing in the ruins of the Roxy during its demolition in 1960.

[JohnEric]

Here is the information I have received from the family who acquired the terracotta embellishments from the building at 714 Main. Somewhere between 1976 and 1980 there was an estate sale in their Fort Worth neighborhood of Park Place. This sale took place at a home across the street from Lilly B. Clayton Elementary and the pieces were underneath a good bit of salvage such as old columns and smaller ornamentations. To purchase the Romanesque busts they were required to buy them along with the other not so special offerings. For many years they graced the entryway leading to grounds of their backyard and in recent years they have been warehoused and kept from the elements. One of their children are quite fond of them and he intends to use them decoratively at his home sometime in the future. I had hoped to hook them up with the owners of the building in an attempt to see these wonderful ornamentations placed back in their original setting but as of yet the chances look slim. Hope this note has helped some of the conjecture on the forum and thanks again for your input...John Eric

[Fort Worthology]

At the least, I would hope they would allow XTO's architects to examine them to create fully accurate reproductions.

[safly]

Here here.

[gdvanc]

One of their children are quite fond of them and he intends to use them decoratively at his home sometime in the future. I had hoped to hook them up with the owners of the building in an attempt to see these wonderful ornamentations placed back in their original setting but as of yet the chances look slim.

John Eric, I am sincerely not doubting the sincerity of the family on this point, but I have to say that if I had pieces of a building that was about to be restored by a natural gas company flush with the spoils of this economy's energy sector, a company with a history of meticulous restoration, I'd be tempted to feign a disinclination to sell.

I share the hope that they will at least be open to XTO's examination and measurement of the artifacts. I don't think much is lost if the originals aren't incorporated in the project, save a very nice and satisfying little story to go along with the restored façade.

[safly]

One of their children are quite fond of them and he intends to use them decoratively at his home sometime in the future.

This doesn't leave the FWFORUM.

I'm up for a little Tom Foolery here in swapping the heads out with some decent FAKES, under the cover of darkness of course.

Perhaps incorporate the TROJAN HORSE method??? Sorry.

Sounds like a job to be sponsored by XTO.

Whatya say?

[JohnEric]

Please read my original post. The endeavor to determine provenance of these embellishments was strictly to solve a mystery, not to develop an interest for selling same. The final dictate as to the disposition of the heads is up to the son, who does not live in Fort Worth. There has been no talk of monies by the family or what these pieces may be worth, not even a consideration. I will hopefully obtain an okay from him for XTO to view the fragments and share their thoughts directly with some of the family. I feel they are sensitive to the desires of XTO to reintroduce some of the original construction into the structure and ultimately believe there will be a happy conclusion, I will keep you posted...John Eric

[Dismuke]

Somewhere between 1976 and 1980 there was an estate sale..... and the pieces were underneath a good bit of salvage such as old columns and smaller ornamentations.

Gee - it sounds like I might have been on to something in my little speculation about the motives and nature of the person who initially saved them from destruction.

[bhudson]

Please read my original post. The endeavor to determine provenance of these embellishments was strictly to solve a mystery, not to develop an interest for selling same. The final dictate as to the disposition of the heads is up to the son, who does not live in Fort Worth. There has been no talk of monies by the family or what these pieces may be worth, not even a consideration. I will hopefully obtain an okay from him for XTO to view the fragments and share their thoughts directly with some of the family. I feel they are sensitive to the desires of XTO to reintroduce some of the original construction into the structure and ultimately believe there will be a happy conclusion, I will keep you posted...John Eric

Well, a couple of points:

1. You admit you're an antiquities dealer.

2. After decades of the pieces gathering dust, junk, and/or sitting in a garden, you posted the pics asking "Anyone know where these came from?" within less than a month of their provenance being put on public display in downtown FW.

3. There was no doubt among anyone familiar with XTO that the building's base would be restored.

I don't care one way or the other, I've got no dog in this hunt... but it's unbecoming to feign shock that someone might question your motives.

[safly]

Good points BH. You a lawyer?

Well, I think those original head pieces had to have been manufactured to scale by some company who may still have the design records on file. And if XTO are good stewards of renovating the base, then they probably already have someone on the hunt for the original specs, not so much the originals. One original head piece would look great on display in the entry way lobby. But I would rather see some remakes of this design perhaps with an added glowing eyes feature or have them ever so slightly turn directionaly (Left, Middle and Right) every 15 minutes or so. Perhaps incorporate some metal to the upgraded design.

There is no reason why XTO of all the gas exploration companies cannot reproduce this design just by looking at the picture provided to us. And I'm glad I replied to that exact original post in full (reshowing the pic), as my post with the image "shouldn't" be able to be deleted by JE.

[gdvanc]

Please read my original post. ...

I knew there was a possibility you would think that I doubt the sincerity of the owners so I tried to make it clear that I do not. I have no reason to doubt them. I'm just saying, if it were me, I'd try to maintain my poker face - and I don't think there would be anything wrong with that.

In any case, the timing of the find and the restoration make a neat little story.

But I would rather see some remakes of this design perhaps with an added glowing eyes feature or have them ever so slightly turn directionaly (Left, Middle and Right) every 15 minutes or so. Perhaps incorporate some metal to the upgraded design.

Crikey, SAFly, why don't you change the faces to Washington, Lincoln, and the Roosevelts and have them sing "It's a Small World"?

Seriously, if you don't get help at Charter, please get help somewhere.



(I'm just funnin' ya, but I'm not putting one of those little yellow happy thingies on my response.)

[safly]

I'm sorry what was that? I can't hear you! (revving up my NINJA bike)

I'm all the way up here in the SKYSCRAPER Member Box and you are just sooo not near this.

[John T Roberts]

Actually he is up the Skyscraper Member Box with you. Remember when the forum was hacked? Donnie's old account was deleted and the tally of his posts were deleted, as well. His post count started over when he set up a new account. A couple of other administrators have the same problems with their post counts actually not reflecting their true number of posts. That said, let's get back on topic.

[safly]

Yeah, Ok. My bad.

So. My version of these pieces of art should still get the green light. Comparing my upgrades to the 714MAIN original Roman guard headpieces and to that of defacing Mt. Rushmore is not even an argument worth making. But I would light up Mt. Rushmore too and add a mighty INDIAN CHIEF.

Of course the sculptors personal philosophy on American views has some controversy and would NEVER have landed him the contract or federal financing to do the job these days.