1246 replies to this topic

[vjackson]

Working in Downtown Dallas, the El Centro area is central to the DART transportation, plus it IS DOWNTOWN DALLAS--always know for its homeless hanging around and general do nothing folk who are ALWAYS THERE IF SCHOOL IS IN SESSION OR NOT.

That isn't and will not be the same in DTFW.

Homeless people and certain "do nothing folks" never bothered me. I grew up in large cities and they were just a part of being in an urban environment. DTFW has no shortage of homeless, they just do a very good job of keeping them out of places where the city doesn't want them seen. And the "do nothing folk" were shipped out of downtown when Radioshack came knocking. Once again I'm not predicting anything for TCC or DTFW. I think it can be a wonderful gain for DTFW, I"m just pointing out possibilities. So you can save your "FW insecurity, OMIGOD he's from Dallas and hates FW" crap for my comments that warrant them. I'm sure I'll make some soon.

[JBB]

As I've said before, I feel that TCC could better spend its money downtown. Rather than build a $300 million (face it, it will go over budget) facility that spans the river and has a state-of-the-art architectural design, build a really nice, pleasing $100 million facility on a few blocks. Using a smaller space may require going up. Spend another $100 million on programs that are going to appeal to a downtown audience: business, professional certification prep, executive MBA, healthcare (insist on having some sort of public transportation link with the hospital district), etc. I know none of that can happen overnight, but, to me, it makes a lot more sense than their current plans.

[DrkLts]

(face it, it will go over budget)

Ain't that the truth!

[JBB]

Just doing a quick scan of this topic, the cost was at $100 million in August 2004, $234 million in April of this year, and then $273 million in the Schnurman column earlier this month.

[safly]

Working in Downtown Dallas, the El Centro area is central to the DART transportation, plus it IS DOWNTOWN DALLAS--always know for its homeless hanging around and general do nothing folk who are ALWAYS THERE IF SCHOOL IS IN SESSION OR NOT.

That isn't and will not be the same in DTFW.

Homeless people and certain "do nothing folks" never bothered me. I grew up in large cities and they were just a part of being in an urban environment. DTFW has no shortage of homeless, they just do a very good job of keeping them out of places where the city doesn't want them seen. And the "do nothing folk" were shipped out of downtown when Radioshack came knocking. Once again I'm not predicting anything for TCC or DTFW. I think it can be a wonderful gain for DTFW, I"m just pointing out possibilities. So you can save your "FW insecurity, OMIGOD he's from Dallas and hates FW" crap for my comments that warrant them. I'm sure I'll make some soon.

Look VJ, I could care less about the whole Big "D" and Cowtown rival, either way. Remember, I am the SAFly. I just would like to point out that the city does not do a good job with the homeless and the "do nothings", trust me when say I see it EVERY day and when I say that I get "hit up" for work by them EVERY day. It is an EVERY day thing (not issue) for me personnaly, though it may not be for you. I don't mind and don't really see THEM being attracted to TCC. Maybe it's just me, but I think if THEY had a brain cell left, then they would stay away from community college students when it comes to cash prospects. I dunno?

Having been a former community college student myself, I see the bridge that TCC is laying out for the future of FW and it is certain to BECOME a great plan in action. I just can't wait, because there are no great tennis courts in DTFW. So I HOPE they bring it.

I also would like to help direct (or help pay for their tuition) some employees off to that particular CC while they work for me nearby. To have a fresh new academic start and go after the educational help that of which CC's will present for you is one that I truly admire seeing youngsters and working professionals take advantage of. I can't say enough great comments about the location, the opportunity and the direction that this plan is heading into. Along with numerous college students will be faculty prefessionals so equally eager to involve themselves into the fabric of the DTFW community. I look forward to that as well. This project oozes opportunities for decades to come, no doubt.


Happy T-Day!

[SurplusPopulation]

You know VJ finally won me over. He's right... Fort Worth is second or third rate in almost everything we do and we are racists who will cringe and regret our decisions at the first sign that they have lead to an increase in young minorities in downtown.

ARE YOU KIDDING ME!!??!!

[JBB]

Misinterpret what he said and put words in his mouth. That'll teach him a lesson.

[SurplusPopulation]

He said some people welcome minorities until said minorities are on their doorstep. Now since he clearly differentiated between the minorities and the other group, one can only assume that the other group is made up of 'majorities'. So it is not putting words in his mouth to read that and think that he believes priviledged white people are being disingenuous about their desire for a campus aimed at all people of all races and instead will not like the outcome once their are minorities in neighborhood. Oh and an old apartment complex was torn down instead of being left in the same location forever, and was replaced by a new corporate campus. Guess that really proves the point.

Can't we have a discussion about this campus without race being a factor? People misbehaving are people misbehaving... period, regardless of race. We will never have a colorblind society if we can't even build a community college campus without the discussion turning to racism.

Btw... what in the world does 'kicking it in Stop Six' prove? I'm so white I'm almost clear, but I don't kick it in Westover or Southlake... or Stop Six... or Como... or Northside.

There's places for discussions like this, but correct me if I'm wrong, this is a forum attached to an architectural website. Maybe not the place for that conversation.

[ghughes]

I think it's fair to discuss all aspects of a development on this website. And I'd like to think we can air questions of how race cards might be played. Nobody is being inappropriate here and there are some reasonable questions being raised.

Since I don't know what the racial or ethnic makeup of the students and faculty will turn out to be and don't know what their behavior patterns will be, this all looks like idle speculation to me. But for sure you can expect most CC students to be working and going to school which will limit (but not eliminate) the partying when compared to well-heeled kids that have school as their sole responsibility. And are minority youth more likely to be busted for rowdiness than their white counterparts? Be nice to think not, but let's keep reality at work and admit that, yeah, it's true.

Fair questions and those are my thoughts. But will the campus be an overall plus for downtown? You betcha!

[cberen1]

Getting right down to it, it has to be a thug element you're concerned about, because it can't be race. It's not black or hispanic or asian people that would worry anyone. It's rowdy people. When I'm downtown at night I already see a pretty good mix of people: black, white, hispanic, asian and everyone else. I doubt that a bunch of TCC students is going to change up the racial mix very much.

But I doubt you'll see a lot of thugs in TCC to begin with, regardless of race. And if there are, are they going to want to hang out at 8.0? People are going to party where they feel comfortable. Are thugs going to be comfortable there? What I would like to see happen is an additional set of clubs and bars mixed into downtown that add a little more diversity to Sundance Square. If hispanic people won't feel comfortable at 8.0, then I'd like to see a nice place downtown where hispanic people will feel comfortable. And, perish the thought, it would be great to have places where everyone felt comfortable.

I just want the places downtown to be nice, clean places, like the Branding Iron Grill.

[Sam Stone]

I actually used to teach at TCC. I was at the NE campus in Hurst. I was living in Monticello, working 8-5 in Arlington, teaching at night in Hurst, and then going out afterwards with friends Downtown. Those were some long days. There were rumblings about a downtown campus at the time and all I though was how much less driving I would have to do. The current TCC setup really benefits suburban students disproportionately. A downtown campus will hlp level the playing field. Can't say what dynamic it'll bring to downtown. TCC isn't anything like a regular college with dorms, teams, frats, etc. On the other hand, it will significantly increase the amount of space downtown for public events like film festivals, Van Cliburn, etc.

[CurtisD]

Can't we have a discussion about this campus without race being a factor? People misbehaving are people misbehaving... period, regardless of race. We will never have a colorblind society if we can't even build a community college campus without the discussion turning to racism.

I love it when people claim race isn't a factor. I grew up in FW and believe me race is a factor in most everything (not just in FW)...welcome to the "melting pot" that is America. And vjackson is right, people are very hypocritical when it comes to poor black and latinos and to dismiss the double-standard in this country when it comes to "people misbehaving" just says you have your head in the sand. And sorry, FW has never been a racially progressive city...and you know it. Go to Houston or Dallas, not to mention Atlanta and see the people of color in positions of power and in high paying corporate jobs. I've lived in FW for over 30 years and have yet to see that here.

Anyway, I feel that this is just a jr college and another FW joke. All of this money and planning for a jr. college??? Why not court a new corporation to offer jobs to those that are losing them as some of FW's well known corps go under??? Once again Fort Worth aims high. Who cares!!!!

[safly]

What double standard???

The MAIN MAN at our city's police dept., is he not hispanic?

I see some progression, but you are right when it comes to the low numbers for DTFW minority business OWNERS, very very low for a HUGE Texas city.

Would like to see more opportunities, especially in DTFW.

Still think the JC approach to the river development is much much less expensive than the BIG 12 satellite approach. Who knows, amybe down the road an AtM or TTech will hook up with the Trinity Vision and drop anchor.

BTW, congrats on Friday's BIG WIN cberen1!

[CurtisD]

What double standard???

The MAIN MAN at our city's police dept., is he not hispanic?

Public and gov't agencies have been very good in most cities about promoting people of color into top positions. I was referring to the private sector. But I'm now realizing that since FW is more of a blue-collar city, many of those types of jobs are just not there for anyone. So a jr. college is probably right on the money. I did attend TCJC btw.

[cjyoung]

Getting right down to it, it has to be a thug element you're concerned about, because it can't be race. It's not black or hispanic or asian people that would worry anyone.

Hispanic is not a race.

[cjyoung]

I love it when people claim race isn't a factor. I grew up in FW and believe me race is a factor in most everything (not just in FW)...welcome to the "melting pot" that is America. And vjackson is right, people are very hypocritical when it comes to poor black and latinos and to dismiss the double-standard in this country when it comes to "people misbehaving" just says you have your head in the sand. And sorry, FW has never been a racially progressive city...and you know it. Go to Houston or Dallas, not to mention Atlanta and see the people of color in positions of power and in high paying corporate jobs. I've lived in FW for over 30 years and have yet to see that here.

As a "person of color" in a "position of power" I can tell you that Atlanta and Houston are light years ahead of Dallas and far behind Chicago and New York. That said, I would say that the percentages are comparable
when looking at the number of businesses in each city. In other words, there are more businesses in Houston, so there are more black and brown business owners and executives. Our problem is that we need attract AND develope more white-collar small businesses.

[cberen1]

Our problem is that we need to attract AND develop more white-collar small businesses.

I couldn't agree more.

[AdamB]

Lets leave the political correctness for a little bit and have a rational discussion. I think this is an interesting topic. DFW is definitely not very progressive when it comes to race most notably African Americans and sex for that matter.

I don't think you see it much in the lower ranks (when you do it is usually just plain ignorance in its purest form) but you do see it often in higher level positions. I have been privy to many situations in which people from various backgrounds or races were being considered for various positions.

For example... lets imagine you have three finalists for a job and it is a black guy, white guy and a woman. And the majority of the time I would not say that it is a matter of blatant bigotry as it is just fear. Women and black men get a bad wrap from the actions of a few. There are many people in DFW (typically older well-meaning men and sometimes even women) in DFW that are scared that they will be putting in someone who could possible use their race or sex to their advantage and or to manipulate their superiors or the organization they work for. Now they know that this probably wont happen but the fact that something they say or do could be misunderstood and ruin them, scares them away from hiring someone from either of these two groups. The group that probably has the most difficult time would have to be black women.

Now I know that racism still exists and the picture I painted is not true all of the time but it happens A LOT more than you think.

Things however will change in time... as we become more and more integrated those boundaries will begin to fade.

[ghughes]

Yup... just a few more generations should take care of it!

[AdamB]

I dont ever expect it to go away completely ghughes... but I dont think it is any stretch to think that racism will continue to decline. We are not that far removed from the civil rights movement and color seems to be a lot more blurred among younger folks than it is with our older generations.

[cberen1]

I have been privy to many situations in which people from various backgrounds or races were being considered for various positions.


Now I know that racism still exists and the picture I painted is not true all of the time but it happens A LOT more than you think.

How do you know what I think or how much I know about racism or bigotry in the work place?

Look, I think this is a great discussion that has no business on this thread. Can we move it?

[AdamB]

I didn't mean you cberen... I was just speaking in general.

[safly]

In my business it is about competence and reliability on many issues when hiring for long-term. A good trial is needed for that right kind of leadership you are looking for in new hires. And I believe TCC in DTFW can help break down many barriers which face many of backgrounds in general for many generations to come. Opportunities like higher education at TCC allow EVERY person in this county to tackle those kinds of issues with great confidence while sharpening those necessary work and social skills. Thus truly realizing that one's own version of earned success is well worth the journey. It's always about who you become.

Oh and Happy Holidays!

[texastrill]

Is the El Centro building in DTD a work of art?Or is it the ugly twin sister to the FW county jail?I guess the skyscrapers in the vicinity are the aminities.

Happy Holidays everyone!And GO COWBOYS!

[Dallastar]

Is the El Centro building in DTD a work of art?Or is it the ugly twin sister to the FW county jail?I guess the skyscrapers in the vicinity are the aminities.

Happy Holidays everyone!And GO COWBOYS!

How can you crack on one Dallas Schools, but cheer for a Dallas team?
Aren't the Ft. Worth Cats playing this weekend, cheer for them.

[vjackson]

Is the El Centro building in DTD a work of art?Or is it the ugly twin sister to the FW county jail?I guess the skyscrapers in the vicinity are the aminities.

Happy Holidays everyone!And GO COWBOYS!

Cmon nothing is as ugly as FW's jail and Justice League Center (that's what we called the Justice Center when we had the FW office) Anyway, El Centro does offer free rail/bus passes to students, and many of the restuarants in West End offer student discounts. It would be cool if TCC had similar perks.

[cberen1]

How can you crack on one Dallas Schools, but cheer for a Dallas team?

Don't you mean Irving team?

[vjackson]

How can you crack on one Dallas Schools, but cheer for a Dallas team?

Don't you mean Irving team?

BTW I forgot to mention Texastrill, I aways thought the Justice Center was where Radioshack got the inspiration for thier campus. Am I the only one that notices the resemblance??

And I hate the Cowboys, call them whatever you want.

[Dallastar]

How can you crack on one Dallas Schools, but cheer for a Dallas team?

Don't you mean Irving team?

No I mean Dallas, there called the "Dallas Cowboys", not Irving or Arlington or whatever, if you called them Irving or Arlington everyone's response would be "Who"
But if you say Dallas, everyone knows who you are talking about.

[texastrill]

It wasnt a "crack" on one Dallas Schools,just merely an observation.
And no where in that statement (GO COWBOYS) was Dallas mentioned.I dont care where they play,the COWBOYS are my favorite team.Always has been,always will be.Just brought them up cuz they got a big game coming up and i was listening to coverage,and i wanted to show my support.
How can you be a Dallastar and get defensive on a FW forum of all places?

[cberen1]

No I mean Dallas, there called the "Dallas Cowboys", not Irving or Arlington or whatever, if you called them Irving or Arlington everyone's response would be "Who"
But if you say Dallas, everyone knows who you are talking about.

Yeah, yeah. And the Texas Rangers represent the entire state...

Look, you made the connection between Dallas schools, which are in Dallas and are primarily used by Dallas residents, and the Dallas Cowboys, which aren't in Dallas and probably don't derive a majority of their revenue from the residents of Dallas. I'm just pointing out the inconsistency of your comparison and the humor of the Cowboys not being in Dallas.

And if you just said "Dallas" as in "Is Dallas going to win tonight it?" It could easily be construed to mean either the Stars or the Mavs. So everyone would not necessarily know who you are talking about.

[AdamB]

I would just like to add my two cents on how the war in Iraq is going... Just kidding... Thought I would go ahead and complete the grocery list of topics covered in this thread.

[safly]

How bout them FLYERS!

[Thurman52]

Ok Construction Question Here.....

Below the Sherrif's parking garage along the Taylor St Bluff, they built a curb cut last week and this week large dump trucks are coming in and out of the the gravel road they built. The road appears to go under the Main St Bridg but to where? I was thinking some groundwork for the school?

[John T Roberts]

They have already started construction on the TCC Campus. They have been clearing the vegetation off of the bluff and have actually started excavating into the side of it for the construction of the new buildings.

[AdamB]

I saw the work being done digging out the side of the bluff. Does this mean that the bridge is now officially on go or are they still debating whether or not the land can support it?

[redhead]

No matter what the decision on the bridge, the bluff has to be excavated because of its long history as a dump. I think the old borings that we saw showed garbage down to about fifty feet. That's one of the reasons that Ed Bass abandoned his old plans on that site. No matter who/what, the excavation costs were going to be huge. The beauty of the TCC plan, if I understand it correctly, was that they would use the void rather than re-fill it. Does anyone know if that's true?

No matter what the decision on the bridge, the bluff has to be excavated because of its long history as a dump. I think the old borings that we saw showed garbage down to about fifty feet. That's one of the reasons that Ed Bass abandoned his old plans on that site. No matter who/what, the excavation costs were going to be huge. The beauty of the TCC plan, if I understand it correctly, was that they would use the void rather than re-fill it. Does anyone know if that's true?

[JBB]

You said it twice, so it must be true.

[Keller Pirate]

No matter what the decision on the bridge, the bluff has to be excavated because of its long history as a dump. I think the old borings that we saw showed garbage down to about fifty feet. That's one of the reasons that Ed Bass abandoned his old plans on that site. No matter who/what, the excavation costs were going to be huge. The beauty of the TCC plan, if I understand it correctly, was that they would use the void rather than re-fill it. Does anyone know if that's true?

This answers my question about why TCC is building at this site. Apparantly it was not an economicaly viable location for private enterprise so someone talked TCC and taxpayer money into this location. No big loss to the property tax rolls if it was unuseable for a real business. Who do you think convinced the trustees of TCC to build on this site? Kay Granger, the mayor? Something was needed to jump start the TRV. Like I said before, a college wouldn't look for the most expensive hardest to build on site they could find.

[Fort Worthology]

The crews are certainly not wasting any time with the excavations at the TCC campus site:

[Now in Denton]

No doubt.

[mosteijn]

Thanks for the update AG. I had no idea TCC was so far along until I was downtown yesterday for a movie.

Does anyone know if the cleared block in front of the courthouse is still going to be a sunken plaza and/or building of some kind for TCC? I would rather see an at-grade park, would make a nice centerpiece for the college, the courthouse, the family law center, and the new civil courts building.

[redhead]

Keller, I don't believe any of the folks you mentioned "talked the college into" the site decision. In fact, TCC had Trinity Bluff under contract at one point, until Bing Thom talked them out of it. In his opinion, Nash Elementary was a big negative because it was in the middle of the property. In fact, if anyone had much influence, it would have been Bing, but not because of TRV---but because of the connectivity that TCC could offer to downtown. I think it's going to be a huge shot in the arm to downtown, despite the costs. If they wanted to cut costs, they could change the overall design, but ten years from now, we'll all be pointing to it as the jewel of downtown architecture despite the pricetag.

[Fort Worthology]

I agree with redhead. I think the TCC campus is going to be absolutely amazing when built - it almost gives me a Frank Lloyd Wright-ish vibe, though not in a strict style of his. More in the way it becomes part of its surroundings. I really do think this is going to be absolutely worth the cost, and I think it's about time TCC built something they can be proud of. None of the other campuses are even close, even in the same dimension as this one.

[Thurman52]

They delievered the tower crane pieces this past weekend. They are stored in the parking lot by all the construction trailers by the power plant.

The trucks removing the dirt are making a mess of the roads around the courthouse. Dirt, and wide right turns. I thought they had to clean up debris/dirty from construction sites. I suspect more potholes will develop soon

[Brian Luenser]

I have been taking a pic every day of the TCC construction from my condo on 34. Will have a complete picture show, providing I live that long. (ie,. don't fall off my balcony taking pictures)

This Pic I took on Sunday.

[JBB]

New TCC campus faces setback

By SANDRA BAKER
STAR-TELEGRAM STAFF WRITER

FORT WORTH — Construction of a flood wall at the new Tarrant County College campus in downtown Fort Worth is an unexpected development that could delay construction of the campus and likely push costs beyond the current estimate of about $234 million.

Before the college district can begin construction on the portion of its planned campus on the north side of the Trinity River, it must build a flood wall to protect the levee during construction, the college has been told by the Army Corps of Engineers.

Engineers hired by the college district have asked engineers in the Corps’ Fort Worth office to help them in determining the type, size and placement of the wall, said David Wells, vice chancellor for operations and planning services at TCC.

But what is designed and approved in the local office will still need to be approved by the Corps’ Dallas and Washington offices before TCC can start building that portion of the campus, officials said.

“We are working with the college’s engineers, and one of the alternatives we are looking at is a wall that could be built as part of the levee system,” said Michael Mocek, deputy district engineer at the Corps’ Fort Worth office. “It’s not a quick and simple process.”

Wells said he did not know how much it will put the project behind schedule because the college can shift its plans and work on the southern sections of campus first. The campus is planned to open in fall 2008.

Moreover, the college district won’t be able to determine a cost until a flood wall design is approved, Wells said.

The concrete flood wall, which would help prevent seepage and underflow, is needed to protect the integrity of the levee while piers are drilled into and just beyond the levee for the northern section’s buildings and for a pedestrian bridge.

The southern section, where some work has begun, sits on the bluff of the northern edge of downtown.

In other action, TCC’s board of trustees Tuesday approved a $916,000 contract extension with Whitehead and Mueller environmental consulting and construction company to remove contaminated soil on the block of land that it recently got in a trade with Tarrant County.

Remediation has already been done on the site, at Belknap and Commerce streets, but more contamination was found when a building was demolished on a corner lot, Wells said.

[ghughes]

$916,000 contract extension with Whitehead and Mueller environmental consulting and construction company to remove contaminated soil on the block of land that it recently got in a trade with Tarrant County.

What is it about schools and contaminated soil? FWISD had the same thing with the Motherall Printing property just south of downtown. Granted, taxpayers would have been stuck with the cleanup bill either way, but who contaminated it in the first place? Was it the county or a previous owner?

[safly]

^^^^

KICK-BACK?

That contract extension should have gone through another bidding process.

And with all that dirt flying for city and county purposes, expect the ENVIRONMENTAL "CONSULTING" and "CONSTRUCTION" (like pick an area of concentration here) companies to do very well for some time.

[Brian Luenser]

Latest picture of TCC Site.