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Residence Inn at "Houston and 8th"

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#101 Jeriat

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Posted 19 September 2017 - 12:22 PM

This building looks uglier and uglier every time I look at the rendering. It's going to be an eyesore on our skyline.

 

I don't think it's ugly, but it'll look weird with it being extra skinny... almost like having a communication tower in the middle of downtown. 


7fwPZnE.png

 

8643298391_d47584a085_b.jpg


#102 John T Roberts

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Posted 19 September 2017 - 01:02 PM

The building will be 50 feet wide, 95 feet long, and approximately 275 feet tall.



#103 renamerusk

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Posted 19 September 2017 - 01:03 PM

 

This building looks uglier and uglier every time I look at the rendering. It's going to be an eyesore on our skyline.

 

I don't think it's ugly, but it'll look weird with it being extra skinny... almost like having a communication tower in the middle of downtown. 

 

 

RI makes me think of one my favorite Dallas skyscrapers;  I see a lot of similarity and scale between it and RI -

 

http://rebusinessonl...owntown-dallas/



#104 renamerusk

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Posted 19 September 2017 - 01:14 PM

The building will be 50 feet wide, 95 feet long, and approximately 275 feet tall.

 

Quite specific details. Do you know more - permitting, start, etc?



#105 Jeriat

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Posted 19 September 2017 - 01:27 PM

The building will be 50 feet wide, 95 feet long, and approximately 275 feet tall.

I'll get that on SketchUp when I get back home.


7fwPZnE.png

 

8643298391_d47584a085_b.jpg


#106 Dylan

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Posted 19 September 2017 - 06:54 PM

 

 

This building looks uglier and uglier every time I look at the rendering. It's going to be an eyesore on our skyline.

 

I don't think it's ugly, but it'll look weird with it being extra skinny... almost like having a communication tower in the middle of downtown. 

 

 

RI makes me think of one my favorite Dallas skyscrapers;  I see a lot of similarity and scale between it and RI -

 

http://rebusinessonl...owntown-dallas/

 

 

At least the windows of that Dallas building are identical on every floor until you reach the top.

 

I'm fine with the scale of RI- it's the windows that drive me crazy. I hate them!


-Dylan


#107 JBB

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Posted 19 September 2017 - 08:51 PM

I agree that the windows look awkward, but I also think this is one that might look better as built than it does in a flat rendering.



#108 arch-image

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 03:55 PM

The building will be 50 feet wide, 95 feet long, and approximately 275 feet tall.

I would have expected about 60-65 wide at least as the residence Inns I have helped with the rooms were about 25' deep. You might get squeezed a but usually not much. For a comparison look to 211 N Ervay in Dallas, the building if I remember right was actually about 45 as the lot was only 50.  



#109 renamerusk

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 07:36 PM

Arch-image, welcome to the Forum. :)



#110 John T Roberts

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 08:30 PM

I don't have a plat of the property, but the standard downtown blocks are 200 feet x 200 feet with lots each being 25 feet wide.  The depth of the lots are 95 feet with a 10 foot wide alley.  I am basing my dimensions on the standard, but there are some deviations. 



#111 A_Random_Username

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 10:07 PM

New here, (thanks John!) And i would LOVE to see this happen, not for it being an hotel but for a tall building. Would love to see more to be honest.

#112 John T Roberts

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 10:20 PM

Welcome to the forum!  As a preservationist, I have mixed emotions.  I'm a little sorry to see the loss of one of the city's early mid-rise buildings in downtown.  The building was built in 1903, yet it has been significantly altered.  The alteration occurred in 1950; therefore, they could be considered historic.  On the other hand, it would be nice to see this addition to our skyline.



#113 renamerusk

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 10:32 PM

A_Random_Username, welcome to the Forum. :)



#114 A_Random_Username

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 11:18 PM

Thanks all! Glad to be here!

#115 arch-image

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Posted 17 October 2017 - 04:13 PM

Thanks Rename as well as others, was here way in the past, but somewhere along the line kinda got busy and stopped following it but glad to be back not only in the forum but also back to living and working from the Ft Worth and Tarrant county side of town, no offense intended to my friends in the Dallas Side! :)



#116 Urbndwlr

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Posted 18 October 2017 - 02:05 PM

 

The building will be 50 feet wide, 95 feet long, and approximately 275 feet tall.

I'll get that on SketchUp when I get back home.

 

Jeriat, are you going to model the building's massing so we can see how it will look as proposed? 

I'm curious if it would be visible from the most common perspectives or angles of the skyline (west from Amon Carter, east from Gateway Park).  From west Burnett Plaza might block it. 

 

 

Regarding height, I don't know how John got to the 275' number but its worth pointing out that hotels tend to have really short floor to floor heights, so a 25 story hotel will be shorter than a 25 story office building.

 

I am also a little sad they have chosen a site where an existing building is that could be renovated.  Would prefer to see it take the place of a surface parking lot.  Understandably, they probably want it to be walkable within the Downtown core and to the Convention Center, and potentially (as suggested by another Forum member in another thread) some land owners might not be sellers at the moment. 

 

John (or any other architect): is there a name for the current design trend of the offset window patterns?  It is definitely what is happening in facade design today. 

I don't have a problem with that but do think the design could be refined and improved a little with some tweaks. 

 

I do like the idea of a really slim building, as it won't block out much natural light to the street, but gets some good density with really small footprint.  I do wonder where they'll have a valet garage.  Not sure what's available to them close by, as some guests will certainly arrive by car.



#117 John T Roberts

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Posted 18 October 2017 - 03:57 PM

Here is how I came up with a 275' height for a 25 story hotel.  Yes, hotels have shorter floor to floor heights than office buildings.  I was assuming 10 feet from floor to floor.  It could be as little as 9 feet.  Anything less than that would probably not be practical.  Anywas at 10 feet with a building at 25 stories, that would yield an absolute minimum height of 250 feet.  However, one would not expect the ground floor with a lobby to have the same height as a floor with just rooms.  So, I decided to double the height.  That would make it 260 feet.  On the roof, the elevator overrun, stair connection to the roof and any mechanical would put another floor up there.  That would make the height 270 feet.  I added five feet for extra mechanical equipment on the roof or other amenity floors that might require more height than a standard room floor.  That's how I came up with 275 feet.   If the building had 9 feet floor to floor heights on the same premise, the building would be about 245 feet high. 



#118 Now in Denton

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Posted 18 October 2017 - 08:03 PM

So by using Mr. Roberts Architceture in Fort Worth Tallest buildings as a guide. At minimum it will about be as tall as two city place. And at Maximum 500West 7th. Give or take a foot. I think that is a good height for a thin building.



#119 renamerusk

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Posted 18 October 2017 - 09:09 PM

Here is how I came up with a 275' height for a 25 story hotel.  Yes, hotels have shorter floor to floor heights than office buildings.  I was assuming 10 feet from floor to floor.  It could be as little as 9 feet.  Anything less than that would probably not be practical.  Anywas at 10 feet with a building at 25 stories, that would yield an absolute minimum height of 250 feet.  However, one would not expect the ground floor with a lobby to have the same height as a floor with just rooms.  So, I decided to double the height.  That would make it 260 feet.  On the roof, the elevator overrun, stair connection to the roof and any mechanical would put another floor up there.  That would make the height 270 feet.  I added five feet for extra mechanical equipment on the roof or other amenity floors that might require more height than a standard room floor.  That's how I came up with 275 feet.   If the building had 9 feet floor to floor heights on the same premise, the building would be about 245 feet high. 

 

Using the Omni Hotel as a plausible measure,  I think your estimate for the height of the hotel is too short.

 

 The Omni Hotel is 447ft/33+1 story = 13.55 + 10-12 ft maintenance

 

 25-story RIH@8:  25 x 13.55 + 10ft = 348.75 ft

 

The hotel could top out at 349ft



#120 John T Roberts

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Posted 18 October 2017 - 09:41 PM

It could be that it is too short.  I was trying to hit a middle point.  One thing you are not taking into consideration is that the Omni is a full service hotel with ballrooms, meeting rooms, and a lot of space that this Residence Inn will not have.  The lower three floors are these types of assembly spaces and the floor to floor height is quite tall.  The proposed 15 story AC Hotel at 5th and Main is supposed to be 167'-6" tall.  It has the lower two floors at 18' each, the upper two floors at 13'-6" each and the main floors at 9'-6" each. 



#121 JBB

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Posted 18 October 2017 - 09:44 PM

The Omni isn't the best building to use as a reference. The floor to ceiling height of the condos above the hotel portion of the building is significantly more than the lower floors:

omni-const-sw.jpg

#122 renamerusk

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Posted 18 October 2017 - 09:59 PM

Yes, it is and I tried to compensate for that.  But I do think that the Omni is a recently built hotel and is a proper comparison.

 How do you know that there is a significant ceiling height difference between the hotel portion and the condo portion of the building?

 

Lets use 447-15 or 432ft  for the Omni....432/33 = 13.09

13.09 x 25 = 327.27ft

 

Either way, the estimated height of RIH@8 should easily exceed 300 ft at a minimum.



#123 JBB

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Posted 18 October 2017 - 10:11 PM

You can see the height difference in the pic above. It's especially noticeable when you compare the balconies on the right side.

#124 renamerusk

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Posted 18 October 2017 - 10:42 PM

Austin, Texas

 

W Hotel Austin  467ft/37  = 12.621 ch/flr                              RIH@8   25 @ 12.621 = 315.5ft

Hilton Hotel Austin 377ft/31 = 12.161 ch/flr                          RIH@8   25 @ 12.161 = 304.0ft

 

Also, in the rendering post#74, RIH@8 is juxtaposed to the Electric Building( 229ft) and the optic suggests that it will be 1.33 percent taller than the Electric Building which would make RIH@8 about 304.5ft or RIH@8 could be as much as 1.5 percent taller than the Electric Building which would then make RIH@8 about 344.5ft.

 

I think we can reasonably project RIH@8 to exceed 300ft  plus in total height.



#125 renamerusk

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Posted 04 December 2017 - 12:08 PM

The article [Fort Worth Texas Magazine] posted here puzzles me in that it fails to mention the planned Residential Inn by Marriott tower, 8th and Houston.

 

 

..... Top that with the fact that it has gone before the design review board and I would say it isn't mentioned because it isn't really official yet.  Just a guess.

 

 

Chatting with employees at Four Star. Said everyone supposed to be out of Century Plaza by year end, building will be torn down.

 

 Is the shuttering of businesses in Century Plaza still happening by the end of this year?



#126 John T Roberts

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Posted 04 December 2017 - 01:09 PM

I would say this project is not "official", yet.  Here's my reasoning.  It has not gone before the Downtown Design Review Board like 901 Commerce and the AC Hotel (twice).  JBB, I think you need to correct your post.  I was sent this month's DDRB agenda and it is not on there for December.  Another factor involved here is that new leasing signs have been put up on the building fairly recently, so I'm not real sure it is going to be demolished. 



#127 JBB

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Posted 04 December 2017 - 01:50 PM

Yeah I meant has not.

#128 Austin55

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Posted 06 December 2017 - 08:26 PM

It is still owned by Mland lodging, the same folks who converted Park Place to the Fairmount. I think this is still in the works, just probably getting their financial ducks in line or something. 



#129 Austin55

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Posted 04 January 2018 - 01:52 PM

Four Star Cafe is still open

#130 Austin55

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Posted 16 October 2018 - 10:31 AM

Four Star Cafe is still open


Four Star closed. Unsure if it's related to any hotel development though.

#131 renamerusk

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Posted 16 October 2018 - 07:33 PM

Is Century Plaza now vacant?



#132 johnfwd

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Posted 18 October 2018 - 07:51 AM

No progress report on hotel development, but Icon Lodging of Irving still boasts on its website about a non-existent Residence Inn by Marriott in downtown Fort Worth.

 

https://www.iconlodg...com/our-hotels/



#133 JBB

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Posted 18 October 2018 - 08:52 AM

It's listed as "under development".

#134 John T Roberts

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 08:07 AM

A Fort Worth Star-Telegram article on restaurant openings and closings is reporting that Four Star Cafe on Houston has closed and states the building is going to be demolished. 



#135 Austin55

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Posted 02 November 2018 - 09:13 AM

It's sort of funny rereading the first post - 

 

Ofcourse, the W.T. Waggoner building is currently at 8th and Houston, and the remainder of the land on that block is XTO owned and I doubt they'd sell. Perhaps someone confused Houston with Commerce? Could share a block with Winfield Place? Regardless, another hotel is on it's way and the downtown hotel market is booming. 

 

Well, 2 years on and the W.T. was sold and will become a hotel! 



#136 Austin55

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Posted 24 February 2019 - 12:36 PM

On the 3rd anniversary of the posting of this thread, here's another image from Icon Lodging's site. It appears to show 20 floors, but the lower floors and base aren't visible.

 

DGzEHvE.jpg



#137 renamerusk

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Posted 24 February 2019 - 02:48 PM

Well, there is still some life and hope.  Cross your fingers! :)



#138 John T Roberts

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Posted 24 February 2019 - 04:52 PM

Yet, there has still been no formal applications for project review, demolition, construction, or anything with a paper trail.



#139 Austin55

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Posted 24 February 2019 - 05:47 PM

But some signs, an affiliate of Icon owning the site now and that the building had been vacated.

#140 John T Roberts

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Posted 24 February 2019 - 06:02 PM

I'm just wondering how long in time before we actually see some formal indications this project is happening.  Austin, be sure you are constantly checking the demolition permits.



#141 renamerusk

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Posted 24 February 2019 - 09:49 PM

But some signs, an affiliate of Icon owning the site now and that the building had been vacated.

 

 

I'm just wondering how long in time before we actually see some formal indications this project is happening.  Austin, be sure you are constantly checking the demolition permits.

 

Unlike the recently opened Hampton Inn and Suites that has its own parking as a part of its building, the proposed hotels for 714 Main and this one, Residence Inn will need to secure guest parking from the nearest source(s).

 

One of the silver lining from when XTO exported jobs from Fort Worth to Houston was that it did so after its 800-space garage had broken ground. 

 

Perhaps DFWI or some other organization has info about how the Cowtown Parking Plaza is performing or if it is filled to capacity everyday, but I reconciled the loss of XTO with an expectation that other users of XTO properties would soon take resident within them. Because the garage was built to consolidate employee parking in one central location, it stands to follow that the garage may now have a surplus of space that can be used by the new users of the old XTO properties.

 

I think we should look for any announcement that a block of parking has been secured long term in the garage as a tell tale sign that RI is ready to proceed with permits and ground breaking.  It can also mean that 714 Main is also further along in its hotel development.



#142 Dylan

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Posted 25 February 2019 - 01:48 AM

Three years later, and the renderings for this project are still ugly.


-Dylan


#143 johnfwd

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Posted 25 February 2019 - 12:16 PM

I visited the Icon Lodging Irving website again and called up the rendering.  It's under "Our Hotels."  The rendering looks slightly different from the one in Post #136 (or it could be my imagination).  My question is generally about posting on websites.  As no details of this proposed hotel have come before the building design committee or other governing entity as yet, as John pointed out above, one is left guessing as to why the rendering has been on their website for, what?, three years now?   I would have thought that, if the project was scotched, the rendering would have been removed from their website by now.



#144 renamerusk

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Posted 25 February 2019 - 08:26 PM

I visited the Icon Lodging Irving website again and called up the rendering..... I would have thought that, if the project was scotched, the rendering would have been removed from their website by now.

 

 I paid a visit to the Icon Lodging (IL) Website too but I carried it bit farther. 

 

 I linked Icon Lodging to the Forum and also introduced myself as a active member seeking to gather an update of the hotel project that IL is prepared to share.  I hope, barring any sensitive reason for which IL understandably might not want to provide at this time, to receive a reply from IL in the coming days.

 

I too think that the project is still in the works by virtue of its continuing to be cited in IL Website.



#145 johnfwd

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Posted 26 February 2019 - 07:49 AM

 

I visited the Icon Lodging Irving website again and called up the rendering..... I would have thought that, if the project was scotched, the rendering would have been removed from their website by now.

 

 I paid a visit to the Icon Lodging (IL) Website too but I carried it bit farther. 

 

 I linked Icon Lodging to the Forum and also introduced myself as a active member seeking to gather an update of the hotel project that IL is prepared to share.  I hope, barring any sensitive reason for which IL understandably might not want to provide at this time, to receive a reply from IL in the coming days.

 

I too think that the project is still in the works by virtue of its continuing to be cited in IL Website.

 

Rename, I applaud your investigative initiative; however, I hope you are not terribly disappointed if you get very little, if any, information about the project. Particularly if its deemed to be proprietary information.  I'm skeptical.  Hope you prove me wrong!



#146 renamerusk

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Posted 26 February 2019 - 02:51 PM

JFWD, I made it clear to IL that I would understand if it could not make details surrounding the project public. 

 

Also, it does not seem logical for the project to remain on the website if it was off.  I'm with you about the likelihood of the project still having life.



#147 johnfwd

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Posted 26 February 2019 - 04:49 PM

Before the Internet, and social media, a prospective developer would make a public announcement.  But the project might lay dormant for a variety of reasons.  If it was dormant for too long, the public would conclude the project is dead.  Our recent local example is that proposed 60-story building downtown.

 

Today websites, such as Icon Lodging's, post proposed projects with their art renderings.  The website has little changed over the years...could be just that someone in charge is too lazy to update the website.  Maybe.  And then there's Facebook, which has been the home for some time now of the non-existent The Worth residential tower.  The stakeholders of that project have even developed a fake social media community.  This may be they're way of marketing the project, which might not be such a bad method these days.

 

I'm not being overly critical here.  Maybe Residence Inn by Marriott and The Worth tower will eventually survive whatever construction cost or market demand obstacle that is evidently delaying these projects.  Let's hope that's what happens in both cases.



#148 Austin55

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Posted 09 April 2019 - 11:50 AM

I'm just wondering how long in time before we actually see some formal indications this project is happening. 

 

John, would you include the projects inclusion on DFWI's development map a formal indication?

 

https://www.dfwi.org...-march-2019.pdf


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#149 John T Roberts

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Posted 09 April 2019 - 12:02 PM

I think it is an indication the project is moving along and the developers have been visiting with DFWI.  It may not be long before the case goes to the DDRB.  Who knows, it may even be next month.



#150 renamerusk

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Posted 09 April 2019 - 02:21 PM

Does anyone remember a line of comments on the Forum about the Hogan Building remodeling parts of its structure as meeting space.  At the time I thought that news was a tell tell sign that the proposed Residence Inn Fort Worth (RIFW) project was still in the developmental stage.  RIFW will need both off site parking (Cowtown Parking Garage and a meeting space(s).  

 

At the time, I also suggested that the Fort Worth Public Market could be a viable option for meeting space(s) for one or multiple hotel projects (714 and Waggoner).  There is precedent for off site meeting and banquet space, e.g. Ashton @ Santa Fe Depot.

 

 

BTW, this may be another indication of the Primary TOD purpose of Tarrant Express Rail as the Downtown to DFW Airport Connector revving up projects that have been on hold until now.







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