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High Speed Rail - Texas


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#201 renamerusk

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 02:14 PM

Cough! Cough!

Parking electric powered non polluting trains over diesel powered polluting trains is not my ideal of a breathable friendly solution. With trains routed atop of one another, a mezzanine for passengers will be needed between them. This will place the trains on the top level even higher. It would be far better and probably much cheaper  to place these trains side-by-side, with all the trains on the same level. Even in Miami they succeeded doing that. 

The fact they have to place the HSR trains over the commuter trains shows they don't really have an alternate site available or usable in downtown Fort Worth. Which brings up the question, do they actually have to place the HSR station in downtown Fort Worth to be economically viable?

 

It shows nothing of the kind. Alternative sites do exist today and will abound in the future for HSR to have a station in  Downtown Fort Worth. 

 

And for the suggestion their is an option of placing the station in Downtown Fort Worth, I would take that suggestion more seriously if you had been a stronger proponent for placing TCR HSR in Balch Springs than placing it in the Cedars/Downtown Dallas. <_<



#202 PeopleAreStrange

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Posted 17 December 2017 - 07:25 PM

Cough! Cough!

Parking electric powered non polluting trains over diesel powered polluting trains is not my ideal of a breathable friendly solution. With trains routed atop of one another, a mezzanine for passengers will be needed between them. This will place the trains on the top level even higher. It would be far better and probably much cheaper  to place these trains side-by-side, with all the trains on the same level. Even in Miami they succeeded doing that. 

The fact they have to place the HSR trains over the commuter trains shows they don't really have an alternate site available or usable in downtown Fort Worth. Which brings up the question, do they actually have to place the HSR station in downtown Fort Worth to be economically viable?

 

Every HSR station should be located in a city's walkable core and be near a transit hub.

 

I'm highly irritated that TCR is planning to have Houston's station in a suburban area northwest of downtown.


- Dylan


#203 Electricron

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 03:44 AM

Every HSR station should be located in a city's walkable core and be near a transit hub.

 

I'm highly irritated that TCR is planning to have Houston's station in a suburban area northwest of downtown.

 

Which is near a transit hub.   

 

Check out the main train stations in Europe, most aren't located exactly in the city centers, within what used to be the city's defensive walls. Paris' Nord is close to 2 miles away from Notre Dame Cathedral.  London's St. Pancras is close to 2 miles away from Big Ben. Berlin's Hauptbahnhof is close to 1.5 miles away from Berlin Cathedral. Madrid's Atocha is close to 1.5 miles away from Almudena Cathedral. 

If the HSR station in Houston is located at the transit hub identified in the DEIS, it will be located 5 miles away from  city hall, between 2 to 3 times the distances seen in much denser European cities. How close is close enough?



#204 renamerusk

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 08:56 AM

Which is near a transit hub.......If the HSR station in Houston is located at the transit hub identified in the DEIS, it will be located 5 miles away from  city hall, between 2 to 3 times the distances seen in much denser European cities. How close is close enough?

 

 You have consistently argued for transit project to be built in a responsible fiscal manner (ie Tarrant Express, CES HSR); yet when arguing for TCR, why, if fiscal responsibility is important to you,  the very expensive Cedars/Downtown Station in lieu of a East Oak Cliff Station near any southern sector DART Station?  Aren't southern Dart Stations close enough?



#205 Electricron

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 09:28 AM

 

Which is near a transit hub.......If the HSR station in Houston is located at the transit hub identified in the DEIS, it will be located 5 miles away from  city hall, between 2 to 3 times the distances seen in much denser European cities. How close is close enough?

 

 You have consistently argued for transit project to be built in a responsible fiscal manner (ie Tarrant Express, CES HSR); yet when arguing for TCR, why, if fiscal responsibility is important to you,  the very expensive Cedars/Downtown Station in lieu of a East Oak Cliff Station near any southern sector DART Station?  Aren't southern Dart Stations close enough?

 

Yes, they would be close enough. Personally anything closer to downtown Dallas than Loop 12 would satisfy me. But I believe you are exaggerating how much more expensive a station at Cedars would be than at Loop 12. There are more things to consider than just money when placing train stations, things the DEIS spends much time on. Please take the time to read it....

 

Then there are things that the future railroad company looks at, like finding a commercial business partner who wants a train station in the mist of its real estate development. In Dallas Texas Central found one, in Houston it did not. 



#206 tamtagon

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 09:29 AM

Maybe the key phrase is transit hub.... Initially, the Dallas HSR station was suburban almost exurban, indicated to be somewhere near I-20@I-45 with the probably Blue Line extension.  Certainly less of a transit hub than the suburban Houston station. The approach to downtown Dallas echos the Trinity River, and is much less congested than the ride into downtown Houston, and the suburban Houston station is supposed to be much more of a transit orientation... 

 

I'm all for finding a way to build the billion dollar extension to downtown Houston, and building the billion dollar extension to downtown Fort Worth. I do not understand the call for an Arlington Station. I get the civic pride and bundling of trophies, but if there's going to be High Speed Rail stop between Dallas and Fort Worth, it should be at Centerport, with a direct and convenient link to the airport.



#207 renamerusk

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 10:24 AM

 

 You have consistently argued for transit project to be built in a responsible fiscal manner (ie Tarrant Express, CES HSR)....

 

(1) But I believe you are exaggerating how much more expensive a station at Cedars would be than at Loop 12. There are more things to consider than just money when placing train stations, things the DEIS spends much time on. Please take the time to read it....

 

(2) Then there are things that the future railroad company looks at, like finding a commercial business partner who wants a train station in the mist of its real estate development.....

 

 Aha, selective principles to best serve one's argument.

 

(1) Nope. The comparison between actual expense and the displacement that a Cedars Station to the same for a southern sector station is not an exaggeration.  Its is disingenious to argue in favor of a more costlier Cedars Station but to argue against a more costlier cross over at the Tarrant Express North Side Fort Worth Station.  There is satisfaction that agreement is now in alignment that "there are more things to consider than just money when placing trains stations"; and which should include commuter stations as well, right?  Perhaps now, the "too costly" argument has been weaken when cost to benefit analysis is factored in.

 

(2) If a future railroad, say instance a Tarrant Express, were to have looked for a commercial  business partner who wants a station in the mist of its real estate development, say for instance the Stockyards, why did not the future railroad take that action? Was it really about costs or was really about something else?



#208 Electricron

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Posted 21 December 2017 - 12:52 AM

 

 Aha, selective principles to best serve one's argument.

 

(1) Nope. The comparison between actual expense and the displacement that a Cedars Station to the same for a southern sector station is not an exaggeration.  Its is disingenious to argue in favor of a more costlier Cedars Station but to argue against a more costlier cross over at the Tarrant Express North Side Fort Worth Station.  There is satisfaction that agreement is now in alignment that "there are more things to consider than just money when placing trains stations"; and which should include commuter stations as well, right?  Perhaps now, the "too costly" argument has been weaken when cost to benefit analysis is factored in.

 

(2) If a future railroad, say instance a Tarrant Express, were to have looked for a commercial  business partner who wants a station in the mist of its real estate development, say for instance the Stockyards, why did not the future railroad take that action? Was it really about costs or was really about something else?

 

 

The Stockyards also has lots of public money invested into it. I haven't read or heard of anyone within the Stockyards tax zone suggesting they were willing to pay all or any of the difference of hosting the TexRail train in the Stockyards vs having the commuter train station at 28th Street.

 

Texas Central will get funds or will get discounts from a real estate developer if they build their Dallas train station in the Cedars neighborhood. Which brings up the ole' saying about putting your money behind your talk, or actually walking the walk vs talking the talk. 


Edited by AndyN, 21 December 2017 - 03:16 PM.
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