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Amazon in search of 2nd headquarters


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#301 JBB

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 08:22 PM

I almost wonder if they're resigning themselves to the fact that HQ2 isn't coming to this area and, in some warped way, by lumping the city in with Dallas, it becomes a loss for Dallas with Fort Worth not getting any of the blame.  I don't know.  And I use the word "blame" loosely.  I don't think that Fort Worth or Dallas or any other has "lost" by not getting HQ2.  This was an elaborate dog and pony show centered around giving a big hand out to one of the wealthiest companies in the world.  The criteria set out were so absurdly ideal that it's likely the whole thing hinges on the incentives.  Hell, if I were to believe some of what I've read, the decision was made long before the request for proposals went public.



#302 johnfwd

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Posted 24 January 2018 - 09:37 AM

I think you may be right that Bezos and associates had a pre-conceived decision as to where to re-locate.  This "bidding process" struck me as being something like "the democratic thing to do since we're a major U.S. corporation and believe in good business practices."  You would think there's a law that exists requiring companies like Amazon to engage in the request-for-proposal (RFP) bidding process.  Nope, with the narrow exception of when you contract with the government.

 

Used to be only governments engaged in RFP bidding, which was an outcome of the "good government" movement that began at the turn of the 20th Century.  Regulations are on the books making this mandatory from the federal government down to states, counties, and cities.  Something about choosing on the basis of merit rather than political patronage.  So much for my philosophy on this.  But like you I could be incorrect.  Maybe Bezos is so democratically inclined as to give cities a chance to partake in his largesse.  Maybe he really will make his decision on the basis of "merit" in each of the the various individual city or regional profiles.  Of course, if he had already made his decision, we would know that for sure if the chosen location is not on the list of those who submitted bids.



#303 A_Random_Username

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Posted 24 January 2018 - 08:42 PM

Im sure he'd be smart and add the city hidden in the list. sadly we dont know which city.



#304 johnfwd

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Posted 26 January 2018 - 02:32 PM

More insightful advocacy from the Star-Telegram, this time not merely for the "Dallas-Fort Worth region" but all of Texas.  Either Dallas or Austin is fine with our local (aka Dallas) newspaper.  Governor Abbott vowing that we won't give away the store.

 

http://www.star-tele...e196740929.html



#305 JBB

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Posted 26 January 2018 - 02:36 PM

Governor Abbott vowing that we won't give away the store.


GIF-o-rly-really-skeptical-yeah-right-GI

#306 JBB

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 02:34 PM

Lay offs at Amazon's Seattle headquarters:

 

https://techcrunch.c...o-a-new-report/

 

I'm starting to wonder if HQ2 is going to happen or if it was ever going to happen.



#307 johnfwd

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 11:39 AM

Lay offs at Amazon's Seattle headquarters:

 

https://techcrunch.c...o-a-new-report/

 

I'm starting to wonder if HQ2 is going to happen or if it was ever going to happen.

Hmmm.  Costly over-expansion?  Or a portent of recession?



#308 JBB

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Posted 13 February 2018 - 12:06 PM

Probably over-expansion.  I would imagine this was in the works well before the recent stock market blip.

 

It's all relative of course.  Amazon laying off a couple of hundred HQ employees is like me turning off a lamp in my living room while I'm watching TV at night because my electric bill was high last month.

 

I posted the article with that comment because something has not felt right about the whole HQ2 ordeal from the beginning.  The public call for proposals with vague and almost impossible to fulfill criteria has wreaked of an exercise to garner massive financial incentives.  I've read more than one article suggesting that Amazon already knew where they planned to build before the cattle call and I'm starting to wonder if it even happens at all.



#309 A_Random_Username

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 06:33 PM

Probably over-expansion.  I would imagine this was in the works well before the recent stock market blip.

 

It's all relative of course.  Amazon laying off a couple of hundred HQ employees is like me turning off a lamp in my living room while I'm watching TV at night because my electric bill was high last month.

 

I posted the article with that comment because something has not felt right about the whole HQ2 ordeal from the beginning.  The public call for proposals with vague and almost impossible to fulfill criteria has wreaked of an exercise to garner massive financial incentives.  I've read more than one article suggesting that Amazon already knew where they planned to build before the cattle call and I'm starting to wonder if it even happens at all.

I had that same feeling myself. if Texas *does* get selected, its more than likely Houston or Austin that will get it. we will never get it as it will either be in dallas or be considered dallas. 



#310 PeopleAreStrange

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 06:55 PM

Houston wasn't listed in Amazon's "top 20" list.


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#311 Austin55

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Posted 20 February 2018 - 11:55 AM

Presented without comment

https://www.dallasne...time=1519127026

#312 renamerusk

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Posted 20 February 2018 - 12:08 PM

"Spineless!"



#313 tamtagon

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Posted 20 February 2018 - 12:34 PM

"Spineless!"

 

...and it's from former Star-T mainstay Mitchell Schnurman.



#314 JBB

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Posted 20 February 2018 - 01:59 PM

I'm just amazed that a professional journalist with a pulse actually believes that Amazon cares about anything beyond the economic incentives.  All of their "criteria" are all easily discoverable to anyone with Internet access.  This whole dog and pony show is about who can give them the best handout.



#315 hannerhan

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Posted 20 February 2018 - 03:27 PM

The article is just clickbait, which seems to be what "journalism" has eroded into these days in many cases.  While his percentages might be correct, they are irrelevant to Amazon's calculations.  Carmel CA likely has an extremely high percentage of educated people, but you don't see small cities in the running because it's the raw numbers that matter...not the percentages.  Every educated worker in Fort Worth adds to Amazon's potential workforce.  Sadly, the article was clearly designed to generate the most publicity/views instead of presenting a coherent argument.  Schnurman is not actually an idiot, but this was a very poor effort.



#316 ramjet

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Posted 20 February 2018 - 04:48 PM

It's still not clear to me that Fort Worth was ever in Amazon's "Dallas" category in the first place, so Shnurman's reasoning seems speculative at the least, and without knowing the specific data that Amazon used to make their selections (did they use DFW aggregate data or just Dallas data?), grossly misleading journalism at the other end.  In any case, if I were Amazon, I would want to take my considerable wealth and transform a community in need such as Newark.  Attract the talent they need to a place that needs investment.  Heck, they're already in Seattle.  Spread the wealth.  I love the investment that companies like Quicken Loans, On Star, and Shinola have made to lift Detroit.  If, for Amazon, the location of their 2nd headquarters is a strictly "add to the bottom line" business decision, where they are cynically fishing for large incentives, with no egalitarian return on investment, then, yes, someplace boring and expensive like Boston, Dallas, or Northern Virginia will likely win out.  And that will be Amazon's just return.  Poaching from other companies close by will be easy.  (By "boring" I mean they'll just be a part of an already saturated market.)



#317 PeopleAreStrange

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Posted 20 February 2018 - 08:59 PM

He's arguing that education rankings for the Dallas-Fort Worth metroplex are being held back by Fort Worth, and that the "Dallas" metro area would rank higher if Fort Worth were a separate metro area.

 

If Dallas really feels that way, both cities should join together and ask the Census for a divorce. :)

 

Fort Worth is by far the largest US anchor city to not statistically anchor its own metro area.


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#318 ramjet

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Posted 20 February 2018 - 10:13 PM

He's arguing that education rankings for the Dallas-Fort Worth metroplex are being held back by Fort Worth, and that the "Dallas" metro area would rank higher if Fort Worth were a separate metro area.

 

I would argue that Shnurman has no idea about what data Amazon looked at.  Pure speculation.  Pure fiction.  More fake news on the DMN's part...



#319 txbornviking

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 08:27 AM

Amazon or not, the piece does make solid points that Ft. Worth still has work to do when it comes to:

a) improving quality of public education compared to neighbor cities

B) improving average pay compared to neighbor cities

c) reducing our over-reliance on residential property tax (60/40 residential vs a healthier 60/40 commercial split)

d) attracting more college educated residents for those "professional" jobs

 

Ft Worth really does have a ton going for it. Good museums, good city events, good downtown area (though admittedly currently more work/play than live/work/play). I've said elsewhere if we can focus on improving education, improved land-use policies, combating sprawl, improving transit options, and encouraging small business growth, then we will come out on top.



#320 JBB

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 09:52 AM

In any case, if I were Amazon, I would want to take my considerable wealth and transform a community in need such as Newark.  Attract the talent they need to a place that needs investment.  Heck, they're already in Seattle.  Spread the wealth.  I love the investment that companies like Quicken Loans, On Star, and Shinola have made to lift Detroit.  If, for Amazon, the location of their 2nd headquarters is a strictly "add to the bottom line" business decision, where they are cynically fishing for large incentives, with no egalitarian return on investment, then, yes, someplace boring and expensive like Boston, Dallas, or Northern Virginia will likely win out.


I love this point. I would be impressed by Amazon looking to truly improve upon a community in need.

Another point that I left out yesterday is I don't think for a second that, if Amazon were to land in Fort Worth, Dallas would sit back and not count it as a regional win or even a win for Dallas alone.

#321 johnfwd

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 12:14 PM

 

In any case, if I were Amazon, I would want to take my considerable wealth and transform a community in need such as Newark.  Attract the talent they need to a place that needs investment.  Heck, they're already in Seattle.  Spread the wealth.  I love the investment that companies like Quicken Loans, On Star, and Shinola have made to lift Detroit.  If, for Amazon, the location of their 2nd headquarters is a strictly "add to the bottom line" business decision, where they are cynically fishing for large incentives, with no egalitarian return on investment, then, yes, someplace boring and expensive like Boston, Dallas, or Northern Virginia will likely win out.


I love this point. I would be impressed by Amazon looking to truly improve upon a community in need.

Another point that I left out yesterday is I don't think for a second that, if Amazon were to land in Fort Worth, Dallas would sit back and not count it as a regional win or even a win for Dallas alone.

 

 

This is an excellent point, namely that Dallas "wants to have it's cake and eat it too" (which would certainly be the case as, you suggest, the chosen site is in the Fort Worth area).  My reaction to the article by Schnurman is that Fort Worth has nothing for which to apologize.  And it really isn't the fault of either city that Amazon was insisting on "regional" bids.  



#322 renamerusk

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 05:33 PM

Awesome,  the quick and robust rebuttal to the DMN's Schnurman.  This was not a time to be silent or to have nothing to say- pride is on the line.

 

There are many reasons why this region could miss out on Amazon; mainly through strong competition by other cities. Pointing the finger at Fort Worth is preposterous for so many obvious reasons.  Economic Regionalism is and should finally be put to rest.



#323 Doohickie

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 07:41 PM

 

Lay offs at Amazon's Seattle headquarters:

 

https://techcrunch.c...o-a-new-report/

 

I'm starting to wonder if HQ2 is going to happen or if it was ever going to happen.

Hmmm.  Costly over-expansion?  Or a portent of recession?

 

 

Neither.  Simply trimming deadwood.  It doesn't say exactly how many layoffs there will be, but it appears to be in the 1-2% range.  Think of it in stock market terms:  After rising from 5000 to 40,000, this is a correction.


My blog: Doohickie

#324 Now in Denton

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 07:50 PM

Awesome,  the quick and robust rebuttal to the DMN's Schnurman.  This was not a time to be silent or to have nothing to say- pride is on the line.

 

There are many reasons why this region could miss out on Amazon; mainly through strong competition by other cities. Pointing the finger at Fort Worth is preposterous for so many obvious reasons.  Economic Regionalism is and should finally be put to rest.

 

Too late someone already called him a "shill" when he wanted the Rangers to move to Dallas.  :laugh: Look many of you have made good points. And it is fine to rebut Schnuram. I plan a rebuttal myself at some point. But don't worry about him. What can he do anyway that will hurt Fort Worth ? Schnuram is not telling us anything new about the education level. Mayor Price said so in the state of the city address. Frisco has no University. But they get collage grads to move into Frisco because they have jobs for them.  We know all this already it is OUR report !  What I fear most is our current and future city and business leaders backslide and start to forget the economic report from late last year. Mayors change. Civic leaders change. Business leaders change. I say focus on Fort Worth leaders to stay on top of things. And not focus on another "snarky" DMN reporter. If anything expect MORE of this type of rhetoric from Dallas. Especially if Fort Worth does become successful in landing corporate HQs. 



#325 hannerhan

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Posted 28 February 2018 - 03:07 PM

I heard from a pretty good source today that the Austin Chamber of Commerce is telling people that they have made the next cut for HQ2.  Not sure whether that's 10 cities or what.  Also Amazon evidently narrowed the location options to one specific area in Austin (vs. the many that Austin had initially thrown out there), for what it's worth.

 

If that's actually true, and if Amazon is really narrowing both the city list and location list within cities, that would make for a really interesting next announcement.



#326 PeopleAreStrange

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Posted 07 March 2018 - 01:17 AM

NBC 5 says Amazon visited several sites in Dallas last month. https://www.nbcdfw.c...-476066143.html

 

Not surprisingly, the Dallas Morning News (and probably Amazon as well) sees the DFW bid as the "Dallas Regional Chamber" bid.


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#327 johnfwd

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Posted 09 March 2018 - 11:19 AM

Amazon may or may not select a site in the "Dallas region."  But all this conjecture has me confused as to what kind of second headquarters Amazon wants.  Does Amazon want to move their people into three or four floors of one of Dallas's downtown office towers?  If they do, would this be permanent or would it be a temporary location until a fabulous corporate campus is constructed outside a CBD, whether around Dallas or Fort Worth?  Or does Amazon (like Toyota, HR Horton, Facebook, etc.) prefer as their first choice to build a spread-out corporate campus in a picturesque rural area?  Like maybe in the Alliance area, or the Plano/Frisco urban sprawl, or the undeveloped Panther Island?



#328 Austin55

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Posted 09 March 2018 - 12:33 PM

They'd most likely build a vertical campus in Downtown.

#329 johnfwd

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Posted 14 March 2018 - 04:09 AM

What puzzles me mostly is why the need for "regional" bids for a corporate headquarters location.  Corporations customarily have a regional perspective when deciding where to locate industrial plants or distribution centers. Factors such as the expanse of land and transportation infrastructure which determine the location of these kinds of facilities are more readily available outside a Central Business District.  Amazon's distribution centers were sited mostly on the basis of a regional perspective.  Offices occupied by corporate executives do not necessarily require a lot of land on which to build.  And transportation is not an issue, as every major city in our country is linked by rail and has a commercial airport.  If Amazon's second HQ is going to wind up in a high-rise building in downtown Dallas. then this regional bidding process was a futile exercise. And I think it was based on swelled-headed thinking.   



#330 cjyoung

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Posted 14 March 2018 - 01:34 PM

Any kind of regional bids will have Fort Worth taking a back seat to Dallas. 

 

I like the "Fort Worth Now" campaign. Hopefully we can meet the long-term goals of the compaign.

 

I'd like us to make a push to get passenger service at AFW too.



#331 PeopleAreStrange

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Posted 14 March 2018 - 04:09 PM

When marketing ourselves to outside companies, we need to market ourselves as a metro anchor and bid separately from Dallas.

 

That said, I'm against building a regional Fort Worth airport. Few people would use it, and it would take away from our greatest asset: Dallas-Fort Worth airport.

 

We need to get airlines and travel websites to refer to the airport as "Dallas-Fort Worth" instead of "Dallas."


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#332 renamerusk

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Posted 18 March 2018 - 07:03 PM

Any kind of regional bids will have Fort Worth taking a back seat to Dallas.....

 

 

When marketing ourselves to outside companies, we need to market ourselves as a metro anchor and bid separately from Dallas.....

 

The reprinted Texas Tribune Story (Emma Platoff) epitomizes how even in Texas, Fort Worth is seen as a "shadow; non-existent" place.  The TT routinely reports on story from what it labels as the major cities of Texas: Austin, Houston, San Antonio and Dallas (DFW). 

 

Read for yourselves how the mayors of the cities of Austin and Dallas-Fort Worth are approaching the Amazon sweepstakes differently.  The Mayor of Dallas-Fort Worth, Mr. Rawlings is ready to prostitute itself to Amazon and give them what ever Amazon wants boasting that his city is a get-it-done place while the Mayor of Austin, Mr.  Adler, is telling Amazon that Austin is the "prize" and that Amazon should demonstrate how it intends to improve Austin; not how it intends to take advantage of his city.

 

Of course, Fort Worth is being muffled and the TT is not interested in knowing just what Fort Worth has or is prepared to do; simply what Rawlings, the mayor of Dallas-Fort Worth is spouting.

 

The Texas Tribune via FWBP - http://www.fortworth...5484a11254.html






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