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Cultural District W. 7th Street Mixed Use Development

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#1 jefffwd

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Posted 15 May 2004 - 06:59 AM

Originally posted 12/4/03:

Posted on Thu, Dec. 04, 2003

Taking shape
Hotel added to plans as developers begin work on South of Seventh project
By Sandra Baker
Star-Telegram Staff Writer


STAR-TELEGRAM JOHN T. VALLES
HEADING WEST


FORT WORTH - More than two years after announcing initial plans, a group of Dallas-based developers has quietly begun construction on a long-awaited 25-acre development on the west side of Trinity Park near downtown that will now include a 150-room hotel.

The South of Seventh project will have almost 60 luxury town houses and about 125,000 square feet of retail space and restaurants, in addition to the extended-stay hotel. The project also expands the recent trends of redevelopment near the core downtown area.

Crews began moving dirt this week near the Lancaster Avenue bridge just south of West Seventh Street, where the first phase of 12 luxury town houses will be built over the next couple of months.

Called So7 for short, the development will get a new main road called Museum Way, which will split the property and join the development to the Cultural District. The shopping and restaurant development -- slightly smaller than the University Park Village shopping center -- will front West Seventh Street. The developers also promise walking paths and lavish landscaping.

The entrance to So7 will also become a new entrance to Trinity Park, they said.

Some aspects of the plan have been altered because of recent projects announced for the area since the So7 project was launched.

Financing has been arranged through Texas Bank of Fort Worth, said Ken Hughes, a partner in UC Urban, the Dallas-based developer. The project will take about four years to complete, he said.

"It takes a long time to get deals done," Hughes said. "We feel now we have it well-positioned. All the pieces ultimately fell into place."

The project plans originally included a grocery store, but that was eliminated when a developer said he plans a SuperTarget, which includes a full-service grocery, across West Seventh Street on the former Montgomery Ward property, Hughes said.

The So7 developers then added the idea of a hotel, and have under contract 2.5 acres with Dallas-based Western International. Western plans a 4-story, 150-room Residence Inn by Marriott. Hughes said construction on the hotel could begin in the next couple of months.

Because of its location between downtown and the Cultural District, the hotel would be well-positioned to get business from both areas, said Mike Mahoney, development director at Western International.

Western is not new to the market. It has nearly completed two other Marriott-brand hotels, a SpringHill Suites at Pulido Street and Interstate 30 and a Courtyard by Marriott at Lands End Boulevard and I-30, near Ridgmar Mall in west Fort Worth.

The Residence Inn, a high-end Marriott hotel, would be completed in about a year, Mahoney said.

Construction of the first town houses will be done as the first streets, infrastructure and other "dirt work" get under way, Hughes said.

In all, 59 town houses -- 2-story structures averaging about 3,000 square feet and costing $300,000 to $600,000 -- will be built.

A high-rise component will eventually be built. Designed by Kohn, Pedersen and Fox Associates in New York, it will consist of three buildings, one of which is planned to be 12 stories, Hughes said. Those plans are still being finalized.

The town houses, designed by architect Philip Shepherd, will be built around a plaza, a fountain and European-inspired streetscapes, the developers said. The Palladian-influenced stucco and stone houses will have Italian tile roofs, wrought-iron balconies and rooftop terraces, designs new to Fort Worth. Some of the units will have elevators.

"We played with almost every architectural style," Hughes said.

Martha Williams, principal in Williams Trew Real Estate Services in Fort Worth, which is marketing the residences in So7, said focus groups held on the project about a year ago showed strong demand.

"We are really excited it's finally going to happen," Williams said. "Fort Worth has not seen this concept. They've been very well thought out and designed. There is a tremendous demand for this."

The development is spread among four tracts, stretching from West Seventh Street to just beyond the Lancaster Avenue bridge to the south. It straddles the Fort Worth & Western Railroad tracks.

The land has been vacant for years. The site was a light industrial area where only the old foundations of peanut silos and former plants remain. A cab company once operated from a building on the property.

The development will be completed from the back of the property forward, to make sure the entire property is used, said Jorg Mast, a development partner.

"We always wanted to make sure to entirely develop the site, not just the frontage," Mast said.

There is no timetable on the retail component. It is designed with a Main Street concept, Mast said, and may include office space and apartments.

"The idea is to have as many local and regional players as possible," Mast said. "We're talking to retailers who are not in Fort Worth, but want to be here."

Mast said the retail component will complement the plans for the redevelopment of Montgomery Ward, which in addition to the SuperTarget include a Home Depot, and other retailers and residential units.

Conditions in the market are good, the developers said. The shopping centers nearest the planned development are University Park Village, on University Drive near I-30, and Chapel Hill, at I-30 and Hulen Street. Both centers are considered upscale and both are booming.

Ian Pierce, director of communications for The Weitzman Group in Dallas, said the overall retail market in Fort Worth is about 90 percent leased, and the downtown market stays 95 percent leased.

Coupled with UC Urban's reputation and the anticipated residential growth of about 10,000 units in and around the downtown area, Pierce said the project should succeed.

"The impact is, they are creating a trade area," Pierce said. "Creating a retail area can create a lot of traffic draw. Ken Hughes has a proven track record."

Marketing for the project will begin aggressively in January, Mast said.

The land is owned by Lensworth, one of Australia's largest developers.

In addition to Hughes and Mast, the development team includes David Dunning.

UC Urban is best known for developing Mockingbird Station in Dallas. The popular urban village off Mockingbird Lane near Southern Methodist University is a mixed-use, residential, office and retail project.

#2 BB

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Posted 15 May 2004 - 06:59 AM

This is great news. I'm driving through the area this afternoon. I'll try to get a look. Does anyone know if there are any online renderings?

#3 jefffwd

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Posted 15 May 2004 - 07:00 AM

I couldn't figure out how to paste this pic but here is the link to the article that has one rendering.
http://www.dfw.com/m...ess/7411452.htm

#4 renamerusk

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Posted 15 May 2004 - 07:00 AM

Great Name.. So7 sounds really cool..luv it!!! So much catchier than the "Tower".

#5 jonnyrules23

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Posted 15 May 2004 - 07:00 AM

Wow, this is great news! I was beginning to wonder whether the project had died or not. A Residence Inn? Well, that's great that we're getting more hotels near the Cultural district, but if we really want our museums to be considered world class, perhaps a few more upscale hotels could give us an edge. And those condos look great! I love how this project is turning a dead industrial area into half a million dollar homes

#6 Urbndwlr FW

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Posted 15 May 2004 - 07:01 AM

Have been looking all over. Can't find any on the web.
I did however find some great mock-ups of the Montgomery Ward redevelopment (shows birds-eye views of how it will look upon redevelopment). Go to the City's website and look in the presentations available there.

John, would you be able to post one or two of them on the Montgomery Ward page on your site?

#7 John T Roberts

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Posted 15 May 2004 - 07:01 AM

Probably. That was a public meeting. Also, there is a link to the presentation on the Montgomery Ward thread here.

#8 renamerusk

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Posted 15 May 2004 - 07:01 AM

So7 has its panels up along W 7th. Now I know that this project is happenin'.

#9 Thurman52

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Posted 15 May 2004 - 07:02 AM

Found this website for the project

http://www.so7fortwo...m/so7_home.html

Site plan, and much more! Very pleasing development

#10 ghughes

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Posted 15 May 2004 - 07:02 AM

Nice site... thanks for the link.

It would be nice if the third floor of the retail area was apartments or condos. While the project is considered to be mixed use, it is really just small singl- use areas in one project.

#11 jonnyrules23

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Posted 15 May 2004 - 07:03 AM

That is a nice website. I like the design of the retail buildings and I hope they do all that brick work and stuff on the roads.
I don't think it mentions how tall the condos are going to be, but are they even going to be built in this phase? I was under the impression that only the townhouses and retail/hotel developments were included in this phase.

Would it be possible to include a light rail station in the future? As I understand it, the proposed light rail line would run along 7th until the current tracks, and use those to transfer to Lancaster. Those tracks run through the heart of the development. Just a thought.

#12 sundancing away

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Posted 15 May 2004 - 07:03 AM

Jonny, from what I have read and can recall, I believe the condo tower is to be in the last phase (Phase 3 or 4?) which is to be completed by late 2005. This is taking reference from an article that has surpassed its annual, thus some of what I have said may be outdated.

#13 Urbndwlr FW

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Posted 15 May 2004 - 07:03 AM

IMO, the architectural design is fantastic. The site plan does seem slightly awkward, however they appear to be working with severeal constraints, namely a rail line running through the middle of the site.

The townhome designs exceed all of my expectations. I was concerned that the Residence Inn would limit the potential of the project, however the design shown in the rendering appears very attractive.

I hope that the So7 is tied in with the neighborhood to the west so that its momentum carries into the old industrial neighborhood and, as importantly, So7 feels like a neighborhood, not a development, as it might if it only has an entrance from 7th St.

#14 DaPanther84

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Posted 15 May 2004 - 07:04 AM

So7 looks really nice. i give it a ten! does anyone know how tall the condo tower is?

#15 renamerusk

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Posted 15 May 2004 - 07:04 AM

I would have to politely disagree with you about one particular constraint: "the rail line that runs through it."

The rail line is a definite asset to the site as it connects the Northside of FW via Near Westside, Mistletoe/8th Ave, Wedgewood to Far Far Southwest FW.

This is an excellent bit of site selection where development can and will occur along an established transit corridor.

I predict that someday there will be a light rail station serving both So7 and MontgomeryWard Plaza.

#16 BB

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Posted 15 May 2004 - 07:04 AM

I believe that 'Dweller was only mentioning the rail line as a physical constraint to the project. Physically, the rail line divides the property and provides some limitations that one continuous stretch of land would not present. I agree that the rail line will do wonders for the long-term success of the development. I hope that things improve soon enough that I'll live to see light rail in FW.

If the renderings are accurate, the condo tower looks to be around 6-8 stories.

#17 normanfd

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Posted 15 May 2004 - 07:04 AM

Is the rail line still frequently used for freight traffic? If so, that would present a problem. Freight trains are enormously longer and heavier than light rail or even commuter trains, and have much steeper gradients on curves in order to maintain efficient speeds. Converting the tracks to any kind of passenger rail requires not only rebuilding much of the track to be compatible with passenger rail (probably including the construction of a second track for two-way travel) but also providing infrastructure elsewhere to enable rerouting the freight traffic. Obviously, this isn't something that could happen in even a few short years.

#18 jonnyrules23

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Posted 15 May 2004 - 07:05 AM

That's the line the Tarantula train runs (ran?) on. I beleive it is owned by the Fort Worth and Western Railroad. They operate only a few trains usually not more than 3 cars, and the frequency is very limited.

As for the condo tower, it seems like each of those "squares" facing the museums is 2 floors. There are 6 or seven squares, putting the floor count at 12-14, so this tower will probably have skyscraper status and could easily top 100' in height.

#19 renmamerusk

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Posted 15 May 2004 - 07:05 AM

My earlier suggestion about light rail should be amended to say that the site is strategically situated on an axis connecting the Stockyards to the proposed Berry Street Urban Village.
Just as a novelty, why not operated a private streetcar service funded by businesses in the Stockyard Business Association, So7 and TCU/Berry Street Redevelopment.

A privately operated streetcar service originating in the Stockyards thru So7; with a spur along Crestline/Burnett-Tandy to and north along Gendy to serve the Cultural District; traveling south thru Mistletoe and along 8th Ave with a second spur from Cleburne Road west to South University along Berry Street connecting four of FW's defined districts (Stockyards, Near West, Cultural District and TCU).
Something akin to the McKinney Avenue Trolley in Dallas.
Again this is a novelty idea which I suspect would be very popular.
Let me suggest that if The T is involved in anyway with this matter, then it is going to be a disaster as the T does not appear to beremotley interested in developing a light rail plan for FW. The T seems far more interested in a Greater Four County Metropolitan Commuter Plan aim mainly to ease congestion in the eastern portion of the region.

#20 Redhead

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Posted 15 May 2004 - 07:05 AM

Regarding the rail useage---it's much more than the Tarantula using those lines. There are enormous freight trains that use that line as well. In fact, the city is presently defending itself in federal court against a suit filed by the Western railroad regarding the use of condemnation for the "at grade" crossing in the So7 project. According to the suit, the proximity to the Seventh Street crossing is such that an alternative method of entry, eg.. Woolery to the west of the tracks, should have been considered.

#21 ghughes

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Posted 15 May 2004 - 07:06 AM

The tracks are integral to the planning of the development in that passenger traffic is anticipated, and whenever it occurs the development is designed to work with it. But who knows when.

The harsh reality is that Fort Worth is not ready for light rail. We can wish it so, and we can even build it, but the development and behavior patterns of our city work against effective passenger rail. SO7 is a step in the right direction, but it alone will not turn the tide.

#22 renamerusk

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Posted 15 May 2004 - 07:06 AM

Is Fort Worth ready for $2-3 per gallon gasoline.

Planning should be well underway for putting in place the inevitable alternative to higher and ever higher gas prices.

To stick ones head in the sand is not the answer. We need leadership. One thing can be said about Dallas (DART). When gas prices gas really scary this summer, there will be at least an alternative in place which I am sure more people over there will find to be very attractive and quite acceptable.

#23 renamerusk

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Posted 15 May 2004 - 07:06 AM

At one time that might have been the case when the 8th Avenue Yards were home to the SLSF Rwy. Co. It is now pretty much an abandoned yard with an occassional swithcing job assigned to what little manufacturing industries remaining in that part of town. A lot of the freight is now carried by trucks. From my observations, most of the freight that passes thru Fort Worth is carried by the two principle railways, the BNSF and the UP along their East-West and North-South mainlines. The railroad companies have bought up many of the smaller companies such as the SLSF Rwy.

Returning to my earlier point, So7 is shrewly positioned to take advantage of a ready laid transit corridor which could be used for a streetcar service capable of connecting the planned TCU/Berry Street Development with the Stockyards with a spur to the Cultural District. Where are the Tandy Center Streetcars when we need them?

Keep Fort Worth Folksy!

#24 mschrief

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Posted 15 May 2004 - 07:07 AM

I cannot imagine the residents who could afford the prices of the property in this project to actually use mass transit.

They won't give up their cars for even the most minor travel.

#25 jonnyrules23

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Posted 15 May 2004 - 07:07 AM

I agree.

#26 10ucTransplant

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Posted 15 May 2004 - 07:07 AM

Unfortunately mass transit is, and will be for the forseeable future, viewed as something for the low income/welfare population, and a lot of people (many of whom vote otherwise) do not want to be associated with that demographic. Thats too bad, if people would open their minds to the positive aspects of lite rail....

#27 normanfd

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Posted 15 May 2004 - 07:08 AM

I don't necessarily agree. I think that people view light rail as something where they'll be riding with professionals on their way to work, and view attractive streetcars as something they'll even pose for tourist pictures. Buses, on the other hand, have a misguided reputation as something upon which you'll be forced to sit next to someone with bad body odor whose talking out loud to the voices in his head.

#28 Sam B Stone

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Posted 15 May 2004 - 07:08 AM

The topic of light rail is (and has been) worthy of its own thread and I could say quite a bit about it right here, but I'll just point out this: FW used to have light rail. All of our favorite historic areas of the city that we talk about most on this forum were accessible by rail. In fact, those areas would not have been built had they not been connected by trolley lines. That's why I think at least part of the question of whether we're ready for it is moot. How can we not be ready for something we had 80 years ago? Nonetheless, I do recognize that lines and infrastructure supporting them (and the funding supporting them) are not in place, so we are not prepared in that sense.

#29 renamerusk

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Posted 15 May 2004 - 07:08 AM

"I cannot imagine the residents who could afford the prices of the property in this project to actually use mass transit".

Here again, I am not advocating for a mass transit/light rail project; simply a trolley/streetcar funded by the developers and the business associations which would be the benefactors of such a novelty system. I would look for the Stockyards Business Association, The Berry Street/TCU development, So7/Montgomery Ward and the Cultural District to participate in the administration of a trolley system. This system could be similar to the Cable Cars in San Francisco or the streetcars in New Orleans. I dont envision it as primarily a commuter line.

#30 ghughes

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Posted 15 May 2004 - 07:09 AM

I'll agree that the mode is critical when it comes to what people will use. Last week I sat next to a very strange person on a bus who coughed and hacked and talked to himself. But that was a single instance. Otherwise I rode with lower, middle, and upper-middle class folks of various hues and origins. All on buses, some with standing room only.

OK, so it was Chicago. But their demographics match ours.

The best mass transit of the week was... airlines. Because that's what airliners are: mass transit. The primary patrons are a bit higher on the food chain to be sure, but there are some real doozies in the air, too. I once sat in the window seat next to a guy that needed a seatbelt extension, and man, that was a tight ride. (He was a nice enough person, don't get me wrong).

Point is, we'll all cram together with strangers for a few hours when it's convenient enough. When the convenience (which can include cost) of the bus or the train is sufficiently high relative to the alternative, we'll use them, too. But in constant-dollar terms gas is nowhere near its peak. Same with the cost of cars; we get a lot for our money. And Fort Worth congestion? Uh-huh, no way does it approach even Dallas.

And just so it doesn't slip by, note that DART collects a full 1 cent sales tax, while The T works with 1/2 cent. Across the US there is not a single light rail operating on less than a 1 cent sales tax subsidy. So don't jump the vision thing too quickly, because without the finances it's just a dream.

#31 dismuke

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Posted 15 May 2004 - 07:11 AM

"All of our favorite historic areas of the city that we talk about most on this forum were accessible by rail. In fact, those areas would not have been built had they not been connected by trolley lines. That's why I think at least part of the question of whether we're ready for it is moot. How can we not be ready for something we had 80 years ago?"

Because things have changed a lot in 80 years and the factors which made it work back then are no longer there.

80 years ago, most people who lived in those now historic areas used to either worked downtown or in industrial districts on the city's north and south sides which were also served by the same rail lines. That is not the case today. People work all over the place, including in the suburbs - and there is just no way that one could build enough rail lines to bring everyone within realistic walking distance to where they work. Moreover, people 80 years ago were in a better position to move to a location where they could either walk or ride transportation to the workplace. Back then, most married women stayed home while the man worked so there was only one job that was a factor in deciding where to locate. Today, most married women work and finding a location that is convenient to both spouses jobs can be difficult - especially since one or both are statistically likely to change jobs every few years. Above all, 80 years ago, a great many people simply were unable to afford a private automobile - and it was rare for a family to have more than one car. Once automobiles became more affordable for people with modest wages, there were very specific reasons why they chose the automobile over the trolleys and busses they had previously been using. Those reasons are just as valid today as they were back then - so it is not likely that people will change their minds.

"Point is, we'll all cram together with strangers for a few hours when it's convenient enough. When the convenience (which can include cost) of the bus or the train is sufficiently high relative to the alternative, we'll use them, too."

That is so correct. People from all demographic backgrounds use public transportation in places like Boston and New York City - even those who own automobiles - because it is more convenient for them to do so. But people will not use such a system if they do not derive a personal benefit from it. And, quite frankly, the percentage of people in the Metroplex other than the desperately poor and those who are unable to drive because of disabilities who have a potential to derive personal benefit from mass transportation is rather small. People who work downtown might be able to benefit - so long as their jobs do not require them to travel around town and so long as their work hours are within the hours that the transit system runs. The ONLY real advantage a bus has to offer is the fact that one does not have to worry about paying to park. But a bus has to deal with the same traffic problems that cars do and, in fact, move much slower than cars due to the number of stops. Light rail, on the other hand, has an advantage of being able to bypass street traffic. So, what might happen in Dallas is a certain percentage of people who work downtown might be willing to either move within walking distance of a light rail line or use it on a park and ride basis. But if one does not work in either downtown Dallas or Fort Worth, chance are public transportation is not going to be a very convenient option for many years to come.

In the 1920s, trolleys traveled up and down Camp Bowie and served much of the city. Let's say that the old system were suddenly to reappear. That would be kind of neat in some respects. But despite the fact that it would be within a few blocks walking distance from my house, I would have utterly NO use for it. I work in Irving - so it would do me no good for my daily commute. I certainly would not use if for shopping as having to carry one's purchases home on a trolley is an inconvenience at best and, in many cases, can put a severe limitation on the size and quantity of one's purchases. For me, such a trolley would be like the TRE. It is something that I use on rare occasion to ride into downtown Dallas just for fun on a weekend and look at the old buildings while I am there. In terms of using it for anything more practical, it is utterly worthless to me. I couldn't even use it to ride to a show at the Majestic or the Meyerson as the last train to Fort Worth during the week departs Union Station at 7:28 PM and at 10:26 PM on Saturdays - and if you miss that last train, your only alternatives are to call someone you know to rescue you or be prepared to fork over a significant chunk of change for a cab ride to Fort Worth.

#32 Redhead

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Posted 15 May 2004 - 07:11 AM

Has anyone seen the traffic study that the city commissioned Kimley Horn to do for S07? Do any of you understand the connections to the proposed Trinity Parkway and adjacent roads? I'm curious how they plan to get ingress/egress with only one entrance?

#33 Thurman52

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Posted 17 July 2004 - 12:05 PM

A few notes about progress on this project..

The city has been rebuilding the stop light at 7th and Trinity Park to accomodate the new entrance to the development.

They are putting in the railroad crossing this morning.

The first townhomes are framed

What I am guessing is the hotel, from the siteplan has the foundation work complete.

No signs of work on the retail portion as of yet. I am sure they are waiting on a certian percantage of pre-leased before construction begins.

#34 ghughes

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Posted 23 August 2004 - 09:14 PM

August 22 from Lancaster
Posted Image
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#35 mosteijn

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Posted 23 August 2004 - 09:29 PM

Sweet update, thanks! I'm guessin the building with the insulation going up is the hotel, right? I plan on venturing there via Trinity Park sometime soon to get some up close shots (while at the same time trying my best not to tresspass :smwink: ).

#36 AdamB

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Posted 24 August 2004 - 08:15 AM

I still think they will have major problems with only one entrance

#37 redhead

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Posted 24 August 2004 - 05:41 PM

The second entrance on the site plan replatted property owned by others for future "Museum Way," to dump out onto Bledsoe---a three block long street with somewhere around two DOZEN dock doors. It is a pin to pin loading zone with forklifts and 18 wheelers in the street from dawn to dusk. The plan has numerous flaws but was approved by city council anyway, seemingly in an effort to get something jump-started in the Cultural District.

First, the plan allowed Hughes to do an "at grade" crossing too close to the one on Seventh---now the subject of a FEDERAL lawsuit that the city is having to pay to defend. Second, the placement of Museum Way is quite bad, in that it could never be signalized at University due to the close proximity to Lancaster. Third, Museum Way looks at a railroad tie retaining wall---NOT the Museum!! Last, but certainly not least---the right of way for the Trinity Parkway has disappeared from the site plan. How does that happen??? Any change of more than a thousand feet to the touroughfare plan requires a public hearing by city ordinance. Such a hearing never occurred.

The more intelligent plan would have been to bisect the distance between Lancaster and Bledsoe and have Museum Way line up with Morton, and hence (ta-da!) look at THE MUSEUM. However, he would have lost some lots so I am sure he did not want that site plan. But from the city's perspective, it would have made more sense, since a. there is already an easement between the two buildings, and b. the nature of the businesses on Morton is not the same as those on Bledsoe. Now the city would have to condemn a very large and expensive building in order to punch Museum Way through.

The city has commissioned Kimley-Horn to do a traffic study that , in my humble opinion, the developer should have had to do prior to approval. BUT NO!!! We rolled over and let him arrogantly tell us why we should be happy to have him. In his famous quote about the Palladium's Group's threats to the city of Dallas over Victory Center years ago, "That may be the way they do business in New York, but not the way we do business here." Too bad Fort Worth did not tell him the same thing.

#38 mosteijn

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Posted 24 August 2004 - 06:27 PM

I have decided our city has a problem with urban development. In their eyes development=moolah, rather than development=civic pride, sustainabilty of the central city, national recognition, etc. This applies to virtually every project going up now being developed by an outside developer. Hopefully that will change someday soon...

#39 John T Roberts

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Posted 24 August 2004 - 09:41 PM

Jonny, you have hit the nail on the head!

Redhead, this Trinity Parkway -- where was the right-of-way and where was it supposed to go? At one time there was a plan for the Cultural District Boulevard that was supposed to start at 7th and Stayton and go south under the Lancaster Bridge, curve west and follow Harley, then curve south and eventually hit Montgomery somewhere in the new arena area. Is this the same thoroughfare?

#40 normanfd

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Posted 25 August 2004 - 01:12 AM

Also, I think we have an issue of definitions. Since the 70s, a "Trinity Parkway" has been proposed to be another link between Fort Worth and Dallas. In NCTCOG plans, it still exists as a proposed extension of Dallas' Trinity Tollway, and would eventually be extended to where the Airport Freeway, approaching from Downtown, meets 820.

#41 redhead

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Posted 25 August 2004 - 09:52 AM

John, you have the location correct. It connects Seventh to Harley, but it does not exist on the So7 site plan. The So7 crowd is lobbying hard to get the city to complete Museum Way, but that would be a very expensive proposition. The property that So7 could not buy (apparently for financial reasons) was reccently purchased by another RE developer that has been very active in the Foch Street area, and he paid around 2.5M for the property. Since the proposed Museum Way goes through the MIDDLE of the building, the entire property would have to be condemned and acquired for the road.

The city has paid Kimley-Horn big bucks to do a traffic study, the results of which are to be shared at a stakeholders meeting on September 8th. It should be interesting as the way So7 platted their property, there is no room for the road. What I cannot grasp is how did the ROW completely dissapear from the thoroughfare plan??? And why did the city wait to do the traffic study until AFTER So7 was so far along in the project??? It just does not sit well with me...not to mention that the permits were issued when there were no roads. mmmm...

#42 mosteijn

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Posted 25 August 2004 - 06:16 PM

Wasn't the Trinity Parkway supposed to be an expressway (toll or free)? If this is a sign the city no longer has interest in it...big loss. We don't need to choke off our downtown with freeways, which has been the mistake of so many other cities in the past.

#43 John T Roberts

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Posted 25 August 2004 - 08:24 PM

I think there may be some confusion on the name. From what I remember, it was to be named Cultural District Boulevard and it was to go from 7th and Stayton and curve over to Montgomery by crossing University at Harley.

#44 Urbndwlr

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Posted 25 August 2004 - 11:09 PM

RE: Traffic Study:
Why would the developer (or the city) need to have a traffic study done?
In what cases does one have to have such a study done? I can't imagine that 59 residential units or 125,000 sf of retail are really going to cause a huge traffic snarl.

RE: "Trinity Blvd" or "Cultural Dist Blvd":
I don't see why we would need a road to cut through from 7th to Univ. There are several streets that people can take to get to Lancaster and then travel south on Univ. BTW, "Cultural District Blvd" is the least imaginative name I've ever heard. I hope that name never comes to fruition.

RE: Museum Way
I'm not crazy about the name of that either. I thought it did line up with Bledsoe directly to the Kimbell, but apparently the median in University cuts it off (and it's slightly off axis.
Redhead, do you think the developer of So7 or anyone else is going to ask the city or the property owner of the Foch street warehouse to tear down part or all of that building for the road? If so, wouldn't you expect the owner to have bought it anticipating that move? Perhaps the So7 delopers are going to wait until they build all 59 townhouses before they open the street to the west - timing it so that the momentum can carry to the blocks to the west. I think that little neighborhood is very well located in relation to downtown and Trinity Park.

#45 mosteijn

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Posted 28 August 2004 - 11:10 AM

I think someone needs to buy every last piece of property between 7th, Univeristy, Lancaster, and So7, and turn it into a West Village (I lack knowledge of similar developments in other cities) like place, with 3 story buildings fronting University transitioning to about 5-6 story buildings closer to So7 (maybe a few high rises near Lancaster). There would be ground floor retail throughout, condos AND apartments above, and maybe a hotel or two fronting 7th or Lancaster. I would also reserve one of the blocks for a park/plaza.

Sound like a good idea?

#46 Thurman52

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Posted 28 August 2004 - 11:59 AM

How tall is that hotel project at this site? I drove by today and they were putting a 4th floor on I was assuming it would a typical suburban hotel 2-3 stories.

On Trinity Parkway, I agree there are plenty of other routes in the area, and I think the parkway would be a just a speedway similar to Forest Park along the river.

Johnny I like the idea for your 7th/ University development, but I have got to question how much High End development can FTW handle? Samuels Ave, Downtown, Trinity River Vision, Magnolia, Lancaster, Camp Bowie Village.... all seems to after the same market high end retail and restaurants. Don't get me wrong I love all these developments, but worried about over building and then developers get desperate for revenue and settle for tenants.

#47 mosteijn

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Posted 28 August 2004 - 12:37 PM

Johnny I like the idea for your 7th/ University development, but I have got to question how much High End development can FTW handle? Samuels Ave, Downtown, Trinity River Vision, Magnolia, Lancaster, Camp Bowie Village.... all seems to after the same market high end retail and restaurants. Don't get me wrong I love all these developments, but worried about over building and then developers get desperate for revenue and settle for tenants.

Well, it wouldn't be high end per se. I was thinking high end retail (something the FW market could DEFINATELY absord, seeing as how it's virtually non-existant), and having the residential units priced all over the place, something along the lines of 90,000-1 million. Maybe some units could even be reserved for low income residents.

And as for the hotels, boutique is the way to go. How 'bout one hotel is a 5 star boutique hotel, and the other is a 4 star chain (but still not very big), like a Four Seasons or a W. I think that would suit the Cultural District well.

#48 Thurman52

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Posted 28 August 2004 - 02:54 PM

I agree with the W thoughts. That would fit nicely!

I still dis-agree that FTW can absorb that much high end development. There are only so many StoreHouses, Starbucks etc a city can absorb.

#49 mosteijn

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Posted 28 August 2004 - 04:16 PM

Lol, when did Starbucks become high-end?

I think the fact that FW is something like 6th on Forbes' best places to be rich list, and only has a Niemen Marcus to cater to it's upper-end shoppers should tell you that there is a serious gap in the high-end retail market, at least on the supply end of the deal. I don't think even after all this new construction will the market reach capacity.

One thing I forgot to mention in my "plan" is that I would like to see 7th street get most of the upscale clothing boutiques, maybe a few restaurants. Something along the lines of the Champs Elysees, only on a MUCH smaller scale.

#50 mosteijn

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Posted 03 October 2004 - 12:47 PM

I was looking at the So7 website and I went to the link for the people marketing the retail space, and they had this site plan:

Posted Image

And click this link for more plans: http://www.citycomme...f/So7_Plans.pdf. Maybe there's a bit too much surface parking, but all in all it looks pretty urban and walkable (assuming you drive there first.)





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