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T&P Warehouse Redevelopment

Downtown Historic Buildings Lancaster Corridor Historic Preservation

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#301 Big Frog II

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 06:54 PM

Could I have possibly seen new windows in this building going down the freeway today?  This would be on the south side of the building beginning on upper floors of the western portion.



#302 BlueMound

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 07:54 PM

Could I have possibly seen new windows in this building going down the freeway today?  This would be on the south side of the building beginning on upper floors of the western portion.


My heart skips a beat

#303 Austin55

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 08:53 PM

Funny you ask. It's received another extension.

http://amp.star-tele...e184458043.html
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#304 JBB

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 08:58 PM

That's the first time I've heard that other developers are interested in the property.  That's encouraging.



#305 John T Roberts

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 09:41 PM

Just as Jerre Tracy said, we get inquiries every time the organization places it on our Most Endangered List.



#306 johnfwd

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 10:02 AM

My reading of the S-T article is that the city is close to throwing in the towel on this building if the owner isn't more proactive in rehab plans.  I love historic buildings (like the post office on Lancaster), but nothing is sacrosanct forever...much less a mammoth structure in a conspicuous part of downtown existing vacant and slowly deteriorating for decades.



#307 Fort Worthology

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 10:55 AM

I've long believed that as long as Cleopatra Inc. owns the building, nothing of any significance will happen with it anytime soon. None of the recent news dissuades me from that belief.

 

They've owned it for 20 years, and this is all that there is to show for it.


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#308 Austin55

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 10:55 AM

Could I have possibly seen new windows in this building going down the freeway today?  This would be on the south side of the building beginning on upper floors of the western portion.


I looked closer and it appears to be boards or something.

#309 youngalum

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 11:28 AM

This is nothing more than a tax write off for the Dallas folks---the city either needs to force a sale or allow the building to be torn down



#310 John T Roberts

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 11:49 AM

My guess is that the city is working toward forcing a sale of the property.



#311 rriojas71

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 12:12 PM

If worse comes to worse would it be possible for the city to invoke eminent domain on this property?

#312 renamerusk

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 12:21 PM

That's the first time I've heard that other developers are interested in the property.  That's encouraging.

 

 

.....it appears there isnt a developer willing to partner with them. I know a couple folks who would be willing to buy them out and could do this project, while making them whole plus a nice profit but from all I am told they don't seem open to that. Love to hear someone tell me different! 

 

 

 

....Guess I will go back to trying to figure out how I can buy the T&P building!

 

 ...And I hope you can figure it out too and soon.

 

 Again, I hope that you, A-I, can find a way to buy the T&P. :)



#313 johnfwd

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 02:43 PM

My guess is that the city is working toward forcing a sale of the property.

Hmm. Can the city legally force a property owner to sell?  Maybe tough persuasion to sell by threatening condemnation and demolition as a public hazard.   But forcing a sale?  I don't know every law, but the only "forced sale" I'm familiar with is the partition suit in district court.  But that usually is about one joint owner suing the other to force a sale by court order.



#314 Doohickie

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 03:19 PM

I would think it would be along the lines of if Cleopatra couldn't pay taxes, the city could seize the property for back taxes.  If they cannot meet basic code, can the city similarly seize the property?  I honestly don't know.  If so, a threat of seizure may force Cleopatra's hand to sell the property.

 

Edit:  Another thought- If Cleopatra bought the property as an investment with no intention of redeveloping it, the city could force the sale by fining them for non-compliance, thus tarnishing the investment and exerting pressure on Cleopatra to sell it.  Could the city also pester them with lawsuits?


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#315 JBB

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 03:58 PM

I would think that pestering then to the point of sellling is the more likely play. Seizing the property is going to be incredibly expensive since I would expect the current owner to not let it go quietly.

#316 johnfwd

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 06:31 AM

I believe there are only three means for local government seizure of private property, legally and constitutionally:  tax foreclosure, condemnation as a public hazard, and the exercise of eminent domain.  The warehouse property owner is not delinquent in the payment of the ad valorem taxes, last time I checked.  Eminent domain is a constitutionally risky proposition (the "takings" clause).  Condemnation is more likely than the other two. 



#317 Doohickie

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 08:41 AM

What would be the implications of condemnation?  Would it necessarily lead to demolition?


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#318 John T Roberts

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 10:19 AM

It would not necessarily lead to demolition.  Once the city condemned the building and took possession, they could choose to spend the funds to bring it up to the minimum code that they had asked the owner to do.  They might even be able to sell the building as is, since they would have the say on whether the city would have to fix it up or not.  If the City code officials told the department in charge of the building they had to demolish it, the Landmarks Commission would still have to approve the demolition and the City would a have to prove to them that demolition was the only option.  Remember, the building is designated as a Highly Significant Endangered Landmark, and issuing a Certificate of Appropriateness for Demolition would be up to that commission.  So far, the Landmarks Commission has determined that the building is still viable for rehabilitation and that's why they are trying to force the owner to bring it up to the minimum standards for a vacant building.



#319 johnfwd

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Posted 16 November 2017 - 11:32 AM

As I understand it, aside from Landmarks Commission involvement, In the process by which the City Council decides to condemn a property, the owner first deals with the code compliance department.  Code compliance then reports to the Building Standards Commission for public hearings.  The Building Standards Commission may give the property owner a period of time to cure the code violations or else face the legal consequences (including requiring the property owner himself to demolish the property at his expense or else the city will contract that it be done and pass on the charge to the owner).  The Building Standards Commission then makes a recommendation to the Council, which holds a public hearing for a final decision on disposition of the property.



#320 renamerusk

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Posted 16 November 2017 - 11:56 AM

.....In the process by which the City Council decides to condemn a property, the owner first deals with the code compliance department.....

 

 Just my own take, but the City has already gone a long way down the process; its not as though Cleopatra doesn't have a dubious track record about T&P Warehouse.  When or if the City takes action, I wouldn't surprise me if it is swift.



#321 Austin55

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Posted 16 November 2017 - 10:22 PM

WFAA just did a piece on the building. They were allowed inside, the new windows were shown off, and overall, it sounded positive like something may actually happen soon. I don't yet see the video online but will post if I do.

 

Fingers crossed. 



#322 Big Frog II

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Posted 17 November 2017 - 09:45 AM

WFAA just did a piece on the building. They were allowed inside, the new windows were shown off, and overall, it sounded positive like something may actually happen soon. I don't yet see the video online but will post if I do.

 

Fingers crossed. 

I saw it too.  Finally had one of the owners actually speak.  He "promised" plans are in the works to finally develop this building.  However, I won't be the one to hold my breath.  After all they have owned it for 20 years.



#323 Fort Worthology

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Posted 17 November 2017 - 09:57 AM

Er18eGE.png

 

I genuinely hope I'm wrong, though.


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#324 John T Roberts

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Posted 17 November 2017 - 01:40 PM

Here's a link to the WFAA Channel 8 story:

 

http://www.wfaa.com/...house/492540084



#325 Austin55

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Posted 17 November 2017 - 03:28 PM

For quite a while now I've heard the owners state the hold up was caused by the delays at the Hemphill-Lamar connector. Now that the connector is really getting going, and scheduled to be done in early 2020, maybe just maybe.... 



#326 Volare

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Posted 17 November 2017 - 06:09 PM

For quite a while now I've heard the owners state the hold up was caused by the delays at the Hemphill-Lamar connector. Now that the connector is really getting going, and scheduled to be done in early 2020, maybe just maybe.... 

 

Only in Fort Worth could it take 3 years to build a tunnel across 4 blocks...

 

Quite sure that the Depression Era tunnels at Main, etc were built in less time. Heck I bet the entire T&P Warehouse was built in less than 3 years.



#327 John T Roberts

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Posted 18 November 2017 - 08:08 AM

After watching the Channel 8 story, I feel that it was done to garner support for the owner and the efforts that they are doing.  I'm glad to see that they are trying to secure the building and to bring it up to minimum building standards, but this was only done because they were forced to do so by the City.  It was also nice to see that they brought in Jerre Tracy, Historic Fort Worth's Executive Director for comments.



#328 renamerusk

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Posted 18 November 2017 - 02:09 PM

After watching the Channel 8 story, I feel that it was done to garner support for the owner and the efforts that they are doing.....

 

 Interesting take...but why would Ch.8 feel that the owner and any efforts of theirs should need support?



#329 John T Roberts

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Posted 18 November 2017 - 05:16 PM

Rename, did you see the story?  This was the first time the news media was allowed inside the building.  I was thinking that maybe the owner invited Channel 8 to do the story.  If they did, then I also thought that it might have been done to get some good PR for the owner and the work that they are doing.  I could be very wrong and I also could have gotten the wrong impression.



#330 renamerusk

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Posted 18 November 2017 - 08:33 PM

Rename, did you see the story?  This was the first time the news media was allowed inside the building.  I was thinking that maybe the owner invited Channel 8 to do the story.  If they did, then I also thought that it might have been done to get some good PR for the owner and the work that they are doing.  I could be very wrong and I also could have gotten the wrong impression.

 

 I did see the story.  I understand your take now.  The owners invited Ch8 and not the other way around.  Yes, the story does have the potential to improve the owners' PR.



#331 John T Roberts

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Posted 19 November 2017 - 08:48 AM

When I found the video online at work, I was going to watch it when I caught a break, but I didn't on Friday.  When I left, I remembered that I had not watched it and I thought I would see it at home.  I had the chance on Friday evening to go downtown to take a photo at night of the new Hampton Inn & Suites.  I worked on the photo that night and then I saw it on Daybreak on Saturday Morning.  However, I was getting ready to take my truck into the shop, and I wasn't watching as closely as I should have. 

 

I have worked with the building owner through several avenues over the last 20 years.  This has been individually, professionally, and via Downtown Fort Worth, Inc. and Historic Fort Worth, Inc.  Maybe someday, I can tell you all about my interaction with the owner and the building.



#332 johnfwd

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 06:53 AM

Saw the Channel 8 video.  I was impressed by the claims that the building is more structurally sound than an outside observer would have thought and that the building would be redeveloped into a mixed-use project soon.  Of course the mixed-use project vision has been out there for a good while now.  I hope this is not a continuation of the crying wolf that has so frustrated the city and the public over these many years.



#333 JBB

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 07:24 AM

I was impressed by the claims that the building is more structurally sound than an outside observer would have thought


It's a pre-WW 2 steel reinforced concrete building. If nothing is done to it, it will stand longer than most of us will live.

#334 Austin55

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Posted 12 December 2017 - 07:43 PM

Kinda a rough shot into the light, but the new "windows" look decent actually.

 

DQ4nTyfUIAA0MnB.jpg



#335 A_Random_Username

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Posted Yesterday, 03:02 AM

I agree. 



#336 Big Frog II

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Posted Yesterday, 11:24 AM

Now if they would just paint the garage doors on Lancaster, I could live with it until someone finally remodels it.



#337 John T Roberts

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Posted Yesterday, 11:39 AM

I will applaud the owner and architect for doing more than the minimum requirement for enclosing the building.  The lexan panels look more like real glass is in the windows.







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