[Willy1]

I just threw a few out there, but have fun and throw out your own ideas. I actually like chains for the purpose they serve. They add a familiarity to an urban mix and although they're pretty suburban most of the time, there are chains that add to an urban mix.

I personally wish we had a Crate & Barrel near Downtown or somewhere on the West Side.... So, be creative and have fun...

[JBB]

I voted for Ikea because White Castle wasn't on the list. (j/k) However, sounds like Ikea is going to land in the Arlington Highlands shopping center.

I like Maggiano's, but I prefer Bucca di Beppo. Wouldn't mind seeing them in DT.

I know it isn't FW proper, but isn't there a C & B in Southlake?

[cjyoung]

Those choices are pretty varied. Having a big mall is certainly different than a single restaurant or store, so the obvious choice is the Galleria Mall...the Houston Galleria.

Ikea and Speedzone would be my second and third choices.

In fact, why don't we bulldoze ugly, outdated Meacham and put a Speedzone there right next to a Galleria Fort Worth (including an Ikea) and a Universal Studios Fort Worth theme park. The kiddies can go to Six Flags Dallas, while mom and dad go to Universal Studios Fort Worth.

With the increased traffic we could open FWA to passenger traffic and later sell our share of DFW to Grapevine and Euless for $200 billion.

[mosteijn]

I think Crate & Barrel would be a nice addition, and it's probably quite feasible, but some others that came to mind are McCormick & Schmit's (sp?) and Morton's Steakhouse, if we don't already have those. They'd fit perfectly downtown or on the westside.

As to the "Galleria" concept, I'm hoping that Hulen Mall sees the success of Ridgmar's remodel and decides to try and outdo it. I'd love to see a renovated Hulen Mall with a couple more upscale anchors (Saks, Macy's and Nordstrom, +Dillards), and a movie theater. It would be even better if they split their property in half and built a nice, pedestrian friendly mall fronting Hulen, and used the rest for mid- to high-rise residetial, office and hotel. Sigh...

[JBB]

The last thing this area needs is another mall.

[safly]

1) IKEA, fo sho (somewhere in FW)
2) CB2 (DTFW,more hip and urban sister store of CB)
3) Urban Outfitters (DTFW)
4) Buca di Beppo's (YUM)
5) ANTHROPOLOGIE / Tiffany's (DTFW, keeps the g-friends happy)
6) CLUB MONACO (Perfect couture for DTFW Urban revitalization scheme)
7) Gino's EAST Pizza (Chicago's finest in DTFW, no competition!)
8) Taco Cabana (late-night Tacos/Mixers in DTFW, a true SA Original... used to be)
9) Virgin Records store (DTFW, music movement trend-setter)
10) Miyagi's Sushi (Sunset Blvds finest to DTFW), or Skybar ( same location)
11) The GRAND DADDY of em ALL ............. The HOUSE OF BLUES!

Oh, and maybe an ESPN ZONE. I don't know of one in Texas at all.

[Biggins]

JBB, on Jun 2 2005, 12:26 PM, said:

The last thing this area needs is another mall.

Amen there, buddy.

Oh, and here's to a DTFW Salt Lick....mmmm.

[safly]

Like the Salt Lick, but I think the Buda-esque location and party space rental area cannot be duplicated, maybe by the old slaughterhouse near the stockyards.

[cjyoung]

JBB, on Jun 2 2005, 12:26 PM, said:

The last thing this area needs is another mall.

The Galleria is more than a mall. It blows away any mall in Tarrant County.

Besides, a Galleria would attract all the stores mentioned in this thread. Have you seen the stores surrounding Houston Galleria and Dallas Galleria?

If quantity is a problem, then we can bulldoze Hulen or Ridgmar.

[cjyoung]

safly, on Jun 2 2005, 01:27 PM, said:

1) IKEA, fo sho (somewhere in FW)
2) CB2 (DTFW,more hip and urban sister store of CB)
3) Urban Outfitters (DTFW)
4) Buca di Beppo's (YUM)
5) ANTHROPOLOGIE / Tiffany's (DTFW, keeps the g-friends happy)
6) CLUB MONACO (Perfect couture for DTFW Urban revitalization scheme)
7) Gino's EAST Pizza (Chicago's finest in DTFW, no competition!)
8) Taco Cabana (late-night Tacos/Mixers in DTFW, a true SA Original... used to be)
9) Virgin Records store (DTFW, music movement trend-setter)
10) Miyagi's Sushi (Sunset Blvds finest to DTFW), or Skybar ( same location)
11) The GRAND DADDY of em ALL  ............. The HOUSE OF BLUES!

Oh, and maybe an ESPN  ZONE.   I don't know of one in Texas at all.

I agree with everything except the Taco Cabana.

Go Spurs!

[safly]

If you used to frequent TC's back when I did, in the hey days of Spurs sponsorship. They used to be FAN-TASTIC! (I made a funny)

But since the late nineties, when they franchised out, down the drain-ohhh.
But they still are the only "after hours" taco place I know of in TX, besides Las Palapa's, now #1 in the SA market for the "after hours" crave. We would only need them there for two reasons, to serve a better than existing brand of Tex-Mex food, and serve after hours. That's all.


GO SPURS!!

[safly]

Yeah, like in the Stockyards right?

[Yossarian]

Quote

But they still are the only "after hours" taco place I know of in TX, besides Las Palapa's,

In Texas? Maybe San Antonio - although you can get some immitation slop 24 hours at Mi Tierra - boy has that place has gone down hill in the last 1/4 century. No, Houston has a number of taquerias that are open 24 hours and a good bit more authentic than Taco Cabana. BTW, a good friend of mine's father was one of the founding backers of Taco Cabana.

[safly]

Look, anyone from San Antonio knows not to go out and eat at ANY downtown restaurant for authentic Mexican food. Mi Tierras, Pico de Gallos, (owned by the same family) and others are a local joke. They do well, especially with DTSA tourists who want to be entertained, but still a joke to the local res. Yes, I would say "pricey slop" is the food genre. Chuy's and Chacho's is far better, not sayin much, but far better. Nacho crave anyone?

Jalisco style MR are the BIG think in SA and Houston now. Too bad they aren't well managed or expanded. I am working on it though.

I would be interested to speak with one of those TC backers on a big project coming into town. Why did they franchise out?

[courtnie]

I vote Bucca's..I either have to drive to Southlake or Dallas...Bucca's ROCKS..oh and so does Tiffany's...but I doubt they would put a store in Fort Worth....our noses aren't far enough in the air for them.. hahah

[Biggins]

cjyoung, on Jun 2 2005, 01:52 PM, said:

JBB, on Jun 2 2005, 12:26 PM, said:

The last thing this area needs is another mall.

The Galleria is more than a mall. It blows away any mall in Tarrant County.

Besides, a Galleria would attract all the stores mentioned in this thread. Have you seen the stores surrounding Houston Galleria and Dallas Galleria?

If quantity is a problem, then we can bulldoze Hulen or Ridgmar.

Malls are passe, my friend. The "Galleria" prototypes of our day are gone, never to be built again. This we can be thankful for. They are absolutely horrible examples of urban design, killing any vestiges of urbanity that many seek in other cities like SF, Chicago and Paris. You don't go to SF to see a damn Galleria, do you? A Galleria is but a *bleep* in fancier clothes...

[Yossarian]

Quote

Why did they franchise out?

Because...that is often where all the money is. Think MCD. Actually, I think that all the franchises were re-patriated after the Dos Peso's merger and the entire company was sold a few year's back. My friend's dad did some initial financial backing which was re-payed with some of the first franchises which were then bought back at some significant profit. He pretty much does liitle today except commute between SA and his ranch outside Hebbronville where he is tinkering with putting in a par three golf course - yeah, a little too much time on his hands.

[safly]

We need more Southlake Squaresque venues, with condos. Or like that neat Indy shopping street in the Oaklawn area. Ihope the TRV includes apsects of a "Chinatown", a " Little Italy", maybe a "Greek Town" , a "German Village Beer Garten" to be included with the " Old Mexico" reataurants on N. Main appeal.

[cjyoung]

safly, on Jun 2 2005, 02:09 PM, said:

If you used to frequent TC's back when I did, in the hey days of Spurs sponsorship. They used to be FAN-TASTIC! (I made a funny)

But since the late nineties, when they franchised out, down the drain-ohhh.
But they still are the only "after hours" taco place I know of in TX, besides Las Palapa's,  now #1 in the SA market for the "after hours" crave. We would only need them there for two reasons,  to serve a better than existing brand of Tex-Mex food, and serve after hours. That's all.


GO SPURS!!

In the mid to late 80's, I spent many a night after gettin' down (getting funky) at Speakeasy or the Soft Shoulder (where is that pimp smilie when you need it?) eating fajitas and pancakes at Taco Cabana on Camp Bowie West. It serves it purpose, I would just like a higher-end joint.

Spurs #1 , Mavericks #8

[cjyoung]

Biggins, on Jun 2 2005, 03:23 PM, said:

cjyoung, on Jun 2 2005, 01:52 PM, said:

JBB, on Jun 2 2005, 12:26 PM, said:

The last thing this area needs is another mall.

The Galleria is more than a mall. It blows away any mall in Tarrant County.

Besides, a Galleria would attract all the stores mentioned in this thread. Have you seen the stores surrounding Houston Galleria and Dallas Galleria?

If quantity is a problem, then we can bulldoze Hulen or Ridgmar.

Malls are passe, my friend. The "Galleria" prototypes of our day are gone, never to be built again. This we can be thankful for. They are absolutely horrible examples of urban design, killing any vestiges of urbanity that many seek in other cities like SF, Chicago and Paris. You don't go to SF to see a damn Galleria, do you? A Galleria is but a *bleep* in fancier clothes...

Again, beggars can't be choosey.

We don't need to worry about competing with 1st tier cities like SF, Chicago or Paris, we need to worry about 3rd tier cities like Charlotte, Denver, Kansas City, San Antonio and Austin.

It could be an open air development with a hotel (like the Gallerias) including all the pedestrian friendly stuff everyone here seems to desire.

We keep talking about what the best examples of this and that are, but meanwhile we do nothing and continue to be America's largest no-name city.

Considering how many Tarrant County folks drive to Dallas to work, we should welcome any chance to create jobs in Fort Worth and a Galleria-type development would provide plenty of high-paying positions.

Considering that fact that SF has only 45 sq. mi, they have no choice, but if the city was say the size of Fort Worth, then it would have Galleria-type malls as well.

...almost forgot...GO SPURS!!!

[Biggins]

cjyoung, on Jun 2 2005, 04:50 PM, said:

Again, beggars can't be choosey. 

We don't need to worry about competing with 1st tier cities like SF, Chicago or Paris, we need to worry about 3rd tier cities like Charlotte, Denver, Kansas City, San Antonio and Austin.

It could be an open air development with a hotel (like the Gallerias) including all the pedestrian friendly stuff everyone here seems to desire.

I believe the TRV will achieve the vision that many of us want, high-end retail but in a sustainable pedestrian-oriented environment. C&B on Knox is way cooler than anything out by the Galleria. Moreover than that, there won't be calls for the TRV's demolition 20 years after the fact, as is done constantly with the razing of suburban malls. It's actually something rather GENUINELY URBAN, a concept lost on many today.

cjyoung, on Jun 2 2005, 04:50 PM, said:

We keep talking about what the best examples of this and that are, but meanwhile we do nothing and continue to be America's largest no-name city. 

A shiny new mall will not alleviate this over more than a couple of decades. Malls are way too ephemeral to provide anything of value to a city. No city is known for its civic virtue by way of having a huge mall. Minneapolis is a great city in spite of having the largest mall in America, not because of it. If FW is to become "known", which is relatively subjective, it should strive for things that make it a unique "community," also a concept lost on many suburbanites.

cjyoung, on Jun 2 2005, 04:50 PM, said:

Considering how many Tarrant County folks drive to Dallas to work, we should welcome any chance to create jobs in Fort Worth and a Galleria-type development would provide plenty of high-paying positions. 

Retail pay stinks, even in high-end stores. What good is a discount when you can't afford anything you sell, anyways? Nobody drives from FW to Dallas for a crummy retail job. The gas alone would cost a couple hours of wages. However, if people had the chance to LIVE near where they WORK... Hmmm....

cjyoung, on Jun 2 2005, 04:50 PM, said:

Considering that fact that SF has only 45 sq. mi, they have no choice, but if the city was say the size of Fort Worth, then it would have Galleria-type malls as well. 

Nice try. It might have one or two, but SF doesn't flow that way. Those are in San Jose. Gallerias appeal to suburbanites, not those that live in the richness of the cities. Gallerias only attempt to sophomorically emulate the culture that exists in the cities, with no real genuine attempts at fulfilling one's need for urbanity. I went to a galleria in Paris "just to see". You could've rolled a quarter through it and not hit anybody. You just can't sell a fake when the real thing's right outside the door. It's pathetic, really.

TRV all the way!!!

[mosteijn]

Biggins, on Jun 2 2005, 05:39 PM, said:

I believe the TRV will achieve the vision that many of us want, high-end retail but in a sustainable pedestrian-oriented environment.  C&B on Knox is way cooler than anything out by the Galleria.  Moreover than that, there won't be calls for the TRV's demolition 20 years after the fact, as is done constantly with the razing of suburban malls.  It's actually something rather GENUINELY URBAN, a concept lost on many today.

You sure about that? The plans I've seen have all put the focus overwhelmingly on residential, with "limited support retail". For example, out of the 12 million total square feet planned in the development, only 1 million is being set aside for retail AND office use, so I'd imagine total retail space would be less than 500,000 sf. Even the N. Main St. corridor, which is the only part of the development with a commercial focus, the retail is designated "neighborhood retail". I also recall someone working on the plan saying that rather than creating an area where people come to shop or dine, they wanted an area where people could live with just the necessities for urban living (I'm guessing that means dry cleaners, convenience stores, etc.)

Of course, these are just the TRV's guidelines, I assume the market will dictate what really gets built there.

[Biggins]

Jonnyrules23, on Jun 2 2005, 06:29 PM, said:

Biggins, on Jun 2 2005, 05:39 PM, said:

I believe the TRV will achieve the vision that many of us want, high-end retail but in a sustainable pedestrian-oriented environment.  C&B on Knox is way cooler than anything out by the Galleria.  Moreover than that, there won't be calls for the TRV's demolition 20 years after the fact, as is done constantly with the razing of suburban malls.  It's actually something rather GENUINELY URBAN, a concept lost on many today.

You sure about that? The plans I've seen have all put the focus overwhelmingly on residential, with "limited support retail". For example, out of the 12 million total square feet planned in the development, only 1 million is being set aside for retail AND office use, so I'd imagine total retail space would be less than 500,000 sf. Even the N. Main St. corridor, which is the only part of the development with a commercial focus, the retail is designated "neighborhood retail". I also recall someone working on the plan saying that rather than creating an area where people come to shop or dine, they wanted an area where people could live with just the necessities for urban living (I'm guessing that means dry cleaners, convenience stores, etc.)

Of course, these are just the TRV's guidelines, I assume the market will dictate what really gets built there.

If the TRV more or less followed a New Urbanist lead, at least 15-20% of the SF would be devoted to retail, e.g. a 4 story condo with ground-floor retail space. Nevertheless, the aggregate development that will be spurred off with the initiation/construction of the TRV will insure that there will be a sufficient saturation of all types of retail in the CBD market. High-end retail will ultimately follow the rooftops, especially if they are the rooftops of 3-6 story lofts/townhouses!

As for the "neighborhood" retail component, my guess is that the TRV will be largely patterned off of Georgetown or Charleston. That kind of quality urban development will be a tourist draw for those of us stuck in the burbs whether the developers intend for it to or not. Surely, the market will adjust accordingly (esp. around the canal and power plant).

[safly]

Georgetown. Now that's Nice.

Can't see it though. Too much history and preservation goin on in G-Town.

You don't mean G-Town, TX? Right?

Love the thought though. I see a Venice wannabe happeining here. Perhaps more arts and financial centers involved. More theaters and a big CCollege to anchor. difficulty is getting all the other n-hoods to get on board.

[mosteijn]

Biggins, on Jun 2 2005, 09:39 PM, said:

Nevertheless, the aggregate development that will be spurred off with the initiation/construction of the TRV will insure that there will be a sufficient saturation of all types of retail in the CBD market.  High-end retail will ultimately follow the rooftops, especially if they are the rooftops of 3-6 story lofts/townhouses! 

Ah, in the CBD market, but not necessarily in the TRV. I have no doubt retail will follow the residential but I've gotten the impression that the people in charge of the project want to make sure as little of that retail as possible makes it into their development, for some odd reason. Don't get me wrong, I think they're making a mistake, and I was quite dissapointed when I looked over the latest plan because I thought this development would be Fort Worth's best opportunity to create a truly dynamic retail corridor. Like you and I both said though, the market will be the ultimate dictator of the entire development, and I'll still hold on to the notion that N. Main would make a killer retail destination.

[safly]

Quote

have no doubt retail will follow the residential but I've gotten the impression that the people in charge of the project want to make sure as little of that retail as possible makes it into their development, for some odd reason.

Plain and simple Johnny. This project competes with the value that DTFW in SS vicinity is holding. First one on board gets taken care of here. And that is SS.

Plus you have the possibility of comm'l tenants flipping on their properties, then the issue of vehicular traffic control. . Main ST. bridge is a nice place to drive along, but not get stuck in traffic. Though it could be tweeked a bit. I still like the idea of retail pushing this TRV market, but I am sure the developers would like to see more density. Of the permanent kind. BTW, I thought the tax payers had a voice in this one. Wondering aimlessly. So sad.

[Biggins]

safly, on Jun 2 2005, 10:00 PM, said:

Georgetown. Now that's Nice.

Can't see it though. Too much history and preservation goin on in G-Town.

You don't mean G-Town, TX?  Right?

Love the thought though. I see a Venice wannabe happeining here. Perhaps more arts and financial centers involved. More theaters and a big CCollege to anchor. difficulty is getting all the other n-hoods to get on board.

Georgetown, TX...that's rich! LOL
I guess I should have prefaced that statement by my desire for the "feeling" that drives Georgetown (DC) to become incorporated into the TRV...the subtlety, the little surprises, the randomness of the streetscape, and yet the coherence of it all.
What will be sad is if there's but one or two pair of hands in the making of the TRV. I can't imagine how monotonous 16+ square blocks designed by the same guys will be, you know? Unless, of course, they both have multiple personalities... They would be better off doing the TRV with four or five (or ten, twenty) different architects all using the same general plan and design guidelines than trying to execute the vision all by themselves. The TRV will actually violate rule number one of urban design, building everything at once, if they're not mindful in the execution of the project.

[cjyoung]

Biggins, on Jun 2 2005, 05:39 PM, said:

Retail pay stinks, even in high-end stores.  What good is a discount when you can't afford anything you sell, anyways?  Nobody drives from FW to Dallas for a crummy retail job.  The gas alone would cost a couple hours of wages.  However, if people had the chance to LIVE near where they WORK... Hmmm....

Salespeople at stores like Rolex (do we have a Rolex store?), Versace, Louis Vuitton, Baccarat, etc. a) Aren't paid by the hour and Make tons more than your average middle manager at Radio Shack or Pier 1. In addition, there are lots of professional and personal services firms located in and around the Galleria.

Biggins, on Jun 2 2005, 05:39 PM, said:

Nice try.  It might have one or two, but SF doesn't flow that way.  Those are in San Jose.    Gallerias appeal to suburbanites, not those that live in the richness of the cities.  Gallerias only attempt to sophomorically emulate the culture that exists in the cities, with no real genuine attempts at fulfilling one's need for urbanity.  I went to a galleria in Paris "just to see".  You could've rolled a quarter through it and not hit anybody.  You just can't sell a fake when the real thing's right outside the door.  It's pathetic, really.
TRV all the way!!! 

It appears to me that Texans crave fakeness, considering how many women (and men) are getting bariatric and breast "enhancement" surgeries. Too bad we'll never have any urbanity whether real or fake.

We'll just continue down the medicore road of fake cowboy culture that only appeals to Germans (who fly into "dallas") and South Asians.

[Biggins]

cjyoung, on Jun 3 2005, 10:00 AM, said:

It appears to me that Texans crave fakeness, considering how many women (and men) are getting bariatric and breast "enhancement" surgeries.  Too bad we'll never have any urbanity whether real or fake. 

We'll just continue down the medicore road of fake cowboy culture that only appeals to Germans (who fly into "dallas") and South Asians. 

Sadly, I think you're probably right.

[safly]

Quote

It appears to me that Texans crave fakeness, considering how many women (and men) are getting bariatric and breast "enhancement" surgeries.  Too bad we'll never have any urbanity whether real or fake. 

We'll just continue down the medicore road of fake cowboy culture that only appeals to Germans (who fly into "dallas") and South Asians. 

(Editing first comment)

OK. You should have posted that, N TEXANS, HOUSTONIANS, and AUSTINITES indulge in the fine art of bariatric and breast "enhancement" surgeries.

The fake cowboy culture, or "Coca-Cola Cowboy" as sometimes referred to,
(Related Sidenote: George Jones at Bass Hall this June or July.) is also enjoyed by the ....... FRENCH. Go figure, and they pay plenty to get a glipmse of what was once Roy Rogers, Will Rogers, John Wayne, and Texas Rangers history. They are also the ones who buy the weird "non-cowboy" fashion boots at places like Leddy's. So next time you walk into a DTFW boot store and you see plenty out of the ordinary stuff, just wonder and say, "Ahhha, the French" .Gotta love em.

[safly]

Wouldn't surprise me if DTFW created a mural of John Wayne(w/ chaps and gun) or Gary Cooper (w/ 10 gal hat and gun) sometime in the near future. They may have had more to do with H-Wood than Cowtown history. But, nevertheless, don't be surprised.

[wren]

I'd like to see a Restoration Hardware store open in DTFW. I like their merchandise and they have a lot of fun, funky gadgets.

Houston's would be a great restaurant for downtown. They have really good food and the best veggie burger and coleslaw I've ever tasted.

[safly]

wren, on Jun 5 2005, 10:27 PM, said:

I'd like to see a Restoration Hardware store open in DTFW.  I like their merchandise and they have a lot of fun, funky gadgets. 

Houston's would be a great restaurant for downtown.  They have really good food and the best veggie burger and coleslaw I've ever tasted.  

RH is ideal for Camp Bowie or University Village area. Too expen$ive for everyday DTFW workers or visitors.

Houston's is OK. Ate at my first and only Houston's in CA of all places. Not memorable, but no complaints. An IL FORNAIO's in DTFW would bring in a certain class appeal for DTFW Italian dining. One of my fav restaurants on Earth. Perhaps the Basses, I mean SS, are working on this one. Hooray!

Check out their website. REAL ITALIAN FOOD!

[Yossarian]

Quote

An IL FORNAIO's in DTFW would bring in a certain class appeal for DTFW Italian dining. One of my fav restaurants on Earth. Perhaps the Basses, I mean SS, are working on this one.

Not a bad idea. It is excelent food for a chain - although I have not eaten there in over 10 years - in fact I had forgotten about it somewhat and did not realize that it had grown such. I thought that it was only a local SF thing. That said, the Basses do operate a sizeable part of their investment side from San Francisco - so they are certainly cognizant of the establishment. It would indeed make a great addition to Fort Worth. Another one to consider in that it would be complimentary to an Il Fornaio would be The Grotto concept from Houston. Il Forniao would cover Northern Italian while Grotto is more Neopolitan and Southern Italian. The prospects for the latter are increasing in that Landry's recently purchased The Grotto from the Vallone family with the intent of expanding the franchise. My only concern would be that Tillman dumbs it down for a broader audience as Outback Steakhouse did with Carrabba's.

[safly]

Agree with the Carrabbas angst. Landry's tries too hard. Will see their creation atop the Tower of America's. C-bbas used to be the place to eat in H-town and SA. Now it is too expanded in the market, sort of like Pappa's. I don't know what thewy are doin with that company. Was good working for them, YEARS AGO.

Il F brings in a certain class and panache to the areas chosen. I love the food, I love that they bring in guest chefs, and I thought they covered all of Italy's regions. The prices are reasonable too, very surprised. Hope they open up somewhere in Texas. I have approached them, but they too are very cautious about the region, hence going as far west as CO. Love to have em here.

[Yossarian]

To go along with your Il Fornao request safly. Another Italian concept that I had forgotten about but was re-aqauinted with over the July 4 weekend on a visit to Florida. As you will see, they are opening in Dallas and Houston this year and state that they have Texas in their crosshairs.

http://www.bice.ws/newsletter.htm

[cjyoung]

safly, on Jun 3 2005, 02:33 PM, said:

Wouldn't surprise me if DTFW created a mural of John Wayne(w/ chaps and gun) or Gary Cooper (w/ 10 gal hat and gun) sometime in the near future. They may have had more to do with H-Wood than Cowtown history. But, nevertheless, don't be surprised.

[Willy1]

gdvanc, on Jun 2 2005, 02:30 PM, said:

i'd like to see someone open up a Texas A&M franchise in FW...

NNNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Let's leave the cults in Waco and College Station where they belong! LOL....

[Urbndwlr]

Look, anyone from San Antonio knows not to go out and eat at ANY downtown restaurant for authentic Mexican food. Mi Tierras, Pico de Gallos, (owned by the same family) and others are a local joke. They do well, especially with DTSA tourists who want to be entertained, but still a joke to the local res. Yes, I would say "pricey slop" is the food genre. Chuy's and Chacho's is far better, not sayin much, but far better. Nacho crave anyone?

This is EXACTLY what we do not want to happen to our Downtown - the reduction of the place to a tourist trap.

[Urbndwlr]

There are certain types of retailers I would be thrilled to see open in Fort Worth, however I would MUCH rather see a locally owned and operated, unique business bring this to our city rather than yet another outlet of (fill in the blank here).

It is the lack of distinctive, locally flavored businesses that makes places such as Phoenix so unspeakably banal and devoid of character. It is exactly this that makes towns such as Austin so distinctive and appealing to educated, talented people. In which direction do you want to see our city go?

As for this discussion, I can list retailers (including restaurants) of the genre and quality that I would like to see here, however I would MUCH rather see the element introduced in Fort Worth in a fashion that enhances our distinct character, rather than simply adding another flavor to the menu of places in which we can spend our money.

Don't get me wrong, I recognize the value these places play by expanding the array of ammenities, etc, however I strongly believe that we, as a community will serve ourselves very well to encourage the development of independent unique businesses within our city rather than simply waiting for and loyally supporting those that aren't unique nor are locally based.

In summary my hierarchy of preference among scenarios of new business opening here:
-Acceptable: National chain with good product/service comes to FW, enhancing the existing mix for consumers
-Better: Small/few-location chain opens in FW (only found in select cities) with same quality as leading national.
-Best: Unique, Fort Worth owned/operated business opens that provides as good or better than national chain product/service.

I make a conscious effort to support these businesses if I feel that they contribute more to our city's culture, identity, and local economy. Fort Worth-owned and operated businesses contribute a lot more to the Fort Worth economy than non-local companies do.


Given that realistically a certain % of our retailers will be national chains, the ones that I would be happy to see set up shop here:
-Jennifer Croll/Croll Sport: http://www.jennifercroll.com/CSmain.htm
-Apple Computer (opening in Southlake - what the... why not in Downtown Fort Worth yet?!?)
-Paul Smith store
-Design Within Reach: www.dwr.com
-Buffalo Exchange
-Amoeba Records/Waterloo Records (actually REALLY should have our own one of these - important) http://www.amoebamusic.com/html/modules.ph...ba_Home&op=home
http://www.waterloorecords.com/index.html


- No more enclosed shopping malls please. Far prefer real, outdoor shopping DISTRICTS
- No A&M - good grief. No offense to the Ags - let's put a serious UT System research institution here if we're going to install a state university.

Hook 'em.

[safly]

(GULP!)

Ditto on the UT over AtM bit.

IL FORNAIO MOST EXCELENT ITALIAN FOOD. OK, THE GREATEST THAT I KNOW OF.
An ESPNZONE.
A FOX sports GRILL.
Andale! IKEA! IKEA! IKEA!
THAI CHILIS-Southlakes finest in Thai food and service. Thanks for the B-Day dessert. YUM!
SHARKEEZ of CA- This FORMER employer will absolutely put them local Burrito Chain places out of business. GREAT Fish Tacos and lobster tail tizers.
Dave and Busters ?
Harrah's casino? Hee hee.

[cberen1]

- No A&M - good grief. No offense to the Ags - let's put a serious UT System research institution here if we're going to install a state university.

Hook 'em.

That's just silly. A&M and UT happen to both be outstanding research institutions in different areas. In the areas of genetics and biotechnology research, A&M has a clear advantage. UT has a clear advantage in some areas of physics, electrical engineering, and maybe medical research. In terms of raw dollars, UT spends about $380 Million annually, A&M spends over $500 Million annually. So, let's not get too excited about how a UT research center might be a more "serious" option. I think it's clear that both schools are pretty "serious" about research.

But that's not really the important point anyway. UT has committed to building a significant research campus at UTD, shunning it's existing campus in Tarrant County. Apparently Dallas is more UT's speed. A&M has talked about creating a strong presence in the DFW area. Maybe Ft. Worth is more A&M's speed. In fact, I think Ft. Worth should consider a serious proposal to get an A&M campus here in the city. Imagine a kick-ass urban campus right where Purina is today.

[Urbndwlr]

- No A&M - good grief. No offense to the Ags - let's put a serious UT System research institution here if we're going to install a state university.

Hook 'em.

That's just silly.

Maybe Ft. Worth is more A&M's speed. In fact, I think Ft. Worth should consider a serious proposal to get an A&M campus here in the city. Imagine a kick-ass urban campus right where Purina is today.

I was actually somewhat joking. I have several friends from grad school who did their undergrad at A&M. They became very used to light-hearted jabs about the inability to parallel park, religious cults, incest, etc.. Granted, most of them were what you guys call "two percenters" and were happy to throw their fellow alumni under the bus. Forgive me as I know it is a solid institution in its own right.

It is your comment about Fort Worth being "more A&M's speed" that is EXACTLY why I would rather have a UT system program here. Or perhaps it is what you implied by linking A&M's speed (slow) with that of Fort Worth and UT's speed (faster) with that of Dallas. Installing more institutions with rural or slow cultures, if you will, in Fort Worth is not a way to help our city progress toward a more sophisticated state. It is exactly this regressive, small town obsession that challenges our efforts to create a high quality more sustainable city for the future.

Let's set our standards higher and demand the best.

I agree with you on the establishment of the urban university campus. Perhaps our visions are very close to the same - with slight differences in execution. May we live to see the day that these are realized!

[mosteijn]

Installing more institutions with rural or slow cultures, if you will, in Fort Worth is not a way to help our city progress toward a more sophisticated state. It is exactly this regressive, small town obsession that challenges our efforts to create a high quality more sustainable city for the future.

Let's set our standards higher and demand the best.

I hope you don't mind being called an elitist, because that seems to be the general reaction good ol' Foat Wuth folks have to people who would like to see our city leave the 20th century (I agree with you, btw). Apparently, the only way Fort Worth can be a good place to live is if it's provincial, boring and suburban.

Anyway, some chains I wouldn't mind having enter the Fort Worth market:

EatZi's. We've been over this before (bah, durn economics), but I still think Fort Worth could support a quality Italian grocery/eatery, and eatZi's is just sooo tasty.

Urban Outfitters. Why not? Fort Worth has some urbanity...

Whole Foods. I find it a bit frustrating that they're opening some mega-flagship store in Dallas when they already have what, 3 or 4 WFM and Fort Worth has NONE.

Lacoste. Well, I like Lacoste's shirts (the only one I have is from Argentina because they're like $30 cheaper there), and I see a lot of people around town wearing them, so why not?

Agree about Apple. Based on the popularity of iPods alone, I can't imagine there are many places in the country that couldn't support an Apple store, and Fort Worth is no different.

A Magnolia or Angelika-like theater. C'mon, if Fort Worth is so "cultural," why are we forced to go to Dallas to watch our non-mainstream movies?

Burberry. Ok fine, I've never shopped at Burberry, but I like their cologne.

Zara. It's a mid-priced Spanish retailer, similar to a department store, and one is opening at the Dallas Galleria. It's not really "exclusive," so I don't see why Fort Worth can't have one.

Z Gallerie, Restoration Hardware, or Crate & Barrel. We already have Pottery Barn and Williams-Sonoma, I don't see much difference between them...

Ok, those are my suggestions. Nothing outrageously "upper-class," but some good stores that I feel would enhance the general Fort Worth retail environment.

[safly]

Burberry. Ok fine, I've never shopped at Burberry, but I like their cologne.

You can have my TOUCH. Can't stand it anymore. Great looking bottle.

Agree about Apple, especially if it looks like this one here:



or this:

GOOD NIGHT!

check out the stairs on this puppy!

CLEAN.

Hopefully this will inspire some designer here in FW.

[cberen1]

Or perhaps it is what you implied by linking A&M's speed (slow) with that of Fort Worth and UT's speed (faster) with that of Dallas.

I'm not sure how a university can be "slow" or "fast". I think when you are on the cutting edge of technology, regardless of whether it's a micro-processor or a new composite for aircraft wings, you're moving pretty fast. I think my reference to "speed" was more of a cultural reference.

I love the UT/Austin bumber sticker that says "Keep Austin Weird". That's cool. But it doesn't probably mesh well with Ft. Worth's culture. It seems more Deep Ellum, which is cool, no question about it.

I see Fort Worth as being a little more candid, open and friendly, a little less Nip/Tuck or Sex in the City. And what's wrong with that? Culturally, I just see A&M as a better fit with Fort Worth. And you can't ignore the existing Ft Worth culture. You might want it to be different, but it is what it is as a result of the people who live here. What are you going to do, work out a swap with Dallas for 1/2 million of their people for 1/2 million of our people? You've just got to find a way to exploit the good in what you've got.

[Urbndwlr]

Or perhaps it is what you implied by linking A&M's speed (slow) with that of Fort Worth and UT's speed (faster) with that of Dallas.

I'm not sure how a university can be "slow" or "fast". I think when you are on the cutting edge of technology, regardless of whether it's a micro-processor or a new composite for aircraft wings, you're moving pretty fast. I think my reference to "speed" was more of a cultural reference.

I love the UT/Austin bumber sticker that says "Keep Austin Weird". That's cool. But it doesn't probably mesh well with Ft. Worth's culture. It seems more Deep Ellum, which is cool, no question about it.

I see Fort Worth as being a little more candid, open and friendly, a little less Nip/Tuck or Sex in the City. And what's wrong with that? Culturally, I just see A&M as a better fit with Fort Worth. And you can't ignore the existing Ft Worth culture. You might want it to be different, but it is what it is as a result of the people who live here. What are you going to do, work out a swap with Dallas for 1/2 million of their people for 1/2 million of our people? You've just got to find a way to exploit the good in what you've got.

My guess is that your sample group and mine are based on somewhat different parts of our city's population. Even if a large swath of Fort Worth is currently conservative, perhaps slightly old-fashioned, why would we as a community not want to bring in new people and institutions that will help diversify our community culturally and intellectually? Don't we want to have a richer mix of people here (interested in and motivated to participate in and to support new amenities such as the arts, restaurants, sports, education, charitable organizations)?

And why in the world would we surrender any opportunity to diversify and enhance Fort Worth by attracting and developing new, cool aspects of the city simply? Because some vaguely similar element already exists in some other city? It would be truly pathetic if our entire community assumed such a weak, defensive posture as that.

[safly]

It would be truly pathetic if our entire community assumed such a weak, defensive posture as that.

What's is even MORE PATHETIC is when the entire community ACCEPTS such a weak and defensive posture as that?

[cberen1]

It would be truly pathetic if our entire community assumed such a weak, defensive posture as that.

What's is even MORE PATHETIC is when the entire community ACCEPTS such a weak and defensive posture as that?

It's not a defensive posture. It's an experienced perspective on cultural change. Absent some drastic environmental change that makes clear a NEED for change, it's tough to make radical changes in any culture or sub-culture.

I'm just saying that it has to be an evolutionary process. If you don't like Ft. Worth's current disposition and you want to change it, you won't get it done by wishing for it. And you certainly won't get it by introducing in mass quantities a cultural element or influence that is substantially different from the general cultural undercurrent. The community will reject, as it has so many times in the past, something that is too far from its comfort zone. It has to be done over time. Think evolution, not revolution.

You don't have to like it. And if your goal is to have something to complain about then you should continue to propose that Fort Worth should take major steps to be like Dallas. You'll never run out of complaint fodder. However, if your goal is to have Fort Worth grow in substance and influence, then you should look at what Ft. Worth is/has and at what incremental events could take place to move the city along a path of growth and development. An aerospace research campus that collaborates with Bell and Lockheed would be an outstanding first step.