26 replies to this topic

[oskie]

Any ideas why neither of these grocery stores exist in FW or are downtown? It seems like TJ's would be a great fit.

[ramjet]

Any ideas why neither of these grocery stores exist in FW or are downtown? It seems like TJ's would be a great fit.

No disrespect, and they both have their charms, but I just moved to Philadelphia close to both a Trader Joe's and a Whole Foods - and in my opinion, they ain't all that... Lot's of VERY EXPENSIVE organic items infused with granola. Give me Central Market any day. Worth moving to Texas for...

[ghughes]

Welcome to the forum, oskie. I moved this to a more fitting area, though.

[Sam Stone]

I may be able to partly answer that question. Whole Foods is a publicly traded company and as such is rather conservative when it comes to following rules and doing due dilligence. They have to go by very conservative measures for demographics and FW simply doesn't meet them. That's not to say FW couldn't support Whole Foods. I think they would do very well here. But their bean counters won't let them. Central Market is owned by HEB, a privately held company. They are not responsible to shareholders and thus freer to use less conservative demographic measures.

I have no idea what the deal with Trader Joe's is, though. Public or private, they don't have a metroplex presence at all, but they do have one in Houston so they're obviously not afraid of the Texas market.

Trader Joe's would be perfect for Downtown though I couldn't see a Whole Foods there for awhile.

[ghughes]

I haven't been to either one, but Mrs. ghughes really likes Whole Foods and makes the trek to Arlington now and then. But there are others who have asked about the "why" and the answer is always pretty much as Sam says: Whole Foods doesn't see Fort Worth as a market they want to be in, and it's all about demographics. In other words, nothing personal, it's strictly business.

But my question is, if there is so much demand in Fort Worth for what Whole Foods has to offer, where is the start-up or entrepreneurial effort to replicate them here?

[Buck]

There's another grocery chain like Whole Foods-

Wild Oats Market.

They have smaller Sun Harvest stores in Austin and San Antonio.

Why not lure them here, especially in the absence of Whole Foods?

[Yossarian]

I may be able to partly answer that question. Whole Foods is a publicly traded company and as such is rather conservative when it comes to following rules and doing due dilligence. They have to go by very conservative measures for demographics and FW simply doesn't meet them. That's not to say FW couldn't support Whole Foods. I think they would do very well here. But their bean counters won't let them. Central Market is owned by HEB, a privately held company. They are not responsible to shareholders and thus freer to use less conservative demographic measures.

I have no idea what the deal with Trader Joe's is, though. Public or private, they don't have a metroplex presence at all, but they do have one in Houston so they're obviously not afraid of the Texas market.

Trader Joe's would be perfect for Downtown though I couldn't see a Whole Foods there for awhile.

No Trader Joe's in Houston. Or anywhere in Texas.

[cjyoung]

I may be able to partly answer that question. Whole Foods is a publicly traded company and as such is rather conservative when it comes to following rules and doing due dilligence. They have to go by very conservative measures for demographics and FW simply doesn't meet them. That's not to say FW couldn't support Whole Foods. I think they would do very well here. But their bean counters won't let them. Central Market is owned by HEB, a privately held company. They are not responsible to shareholders and thus freer to use less conservative demographic measures.

I have no idea what the deal with Trader Joe's is, though. Public or private, they don't have a metroplex presence at all, but they do have one in Houston so they're obviously not afraid of the Texas market.

Trader Joe's would be perfect for Downtown though I couldn't see a Whole Foods there for awhile.

Not every store they have meet their "conservative meaures for demographics."

[Sam Stone]

I stand corrected--I was sure they had one in Houston, but I was obviously thinking of something else.

To clarify what I mean by conservative: a relatively high minimum number of households within some radius that have a household income above X, and not overlapping the radius of an existing store. I didn't mean conservative in its political sense.

[youngalum]

With restaurants like Reata and soon others with similar themes, we are seen as country bumpkins that wouldn't understand the concept of whole foods. They think we are a meat/potato blue collar town first and foremost.

Nothing that Fort Worth does tries to stop that line of thinking with its city/tourist promotions.

[vjackson]

I agree with youngalum. The reason probably is perception. FW just isn't seen as a city that would be welcoming to the Whole Foods organic (and pricey) concept. The same reasoning, IMO, is why Angelika opened up a second metroplex theater in Plano instead of FW. The company probably feels that blue collar FW just isn't the place for independant cinema. (Rumor has it that Magnolia Theaters is considering a location in Glory Park in Arlington near the new cowboys stadium.) Also grocers operate on a very thin profit margin. It makes sense that they would be very picky about where to locate stores. Consider the Urban Market in Dallas. That place is pretty busy most of the time, and they still are not making a profit yet.

[Fort Worthology]

I like Central Market better, myself. Been to Whole Foods a few times, and while I thought it was nifty enough, don't really see a burning need to have one here.

[vjackson]

I didn't know what to expect the first time I went into a Central Market. I must say, I like Whole Foods much better. CM just seemed liked a higher priced Tom Thumb to me. But I will go there ocassionaly for some of the prepared meals. They make an awesome meatloaf.

[Keller Pirate]

Since we are starting a ratings contest between Central Market and Whole Foods I might as well toss out my opinion. I like both of them. To me they are just opposite sides of the same coin. Of course in Keller, neither is close enough to shop at regularly so the Kroger is my weekly store of choice. When we lived in Naperville, IL we were regulars at the Whole Foods and now I occansionally go to Central Market in Ft Worth.
Both are Texas headquarted businesses so I wonder who had the concept first?

The new Central Market in Southlake is supposed to open in November and they are saying it is the first new CM in 4 years. Also they have a hiring office for the Southlake store in Keller. I guess they figured they wouldn't find too many people in Southlake that wanted to work in a grocery store and Keller would have more candidates.

[vjackson]

^^^^
I thought the Southlake CM opened months ago. It seems like its been talked about forever.

[cjyoung]

I agree with youngalum. The reason probably is perception. FW just isn't seen as a city that would be welcoming to the Whole Foods organic (and pricey) concept. The same reasoning, IMO, is why Angelika opened up a second metroplex theater in Plano instead of FW. The company probably feels that blue collar FW just isn't the place for independant cinema. (Rumor has it that Magnolia Theaters is considering a location in Glory Park in Arlington near the new cowboys stadium.) Also grocers operate on a very thin profit margin. It makes sense that they would be very picky about where to locate stores. Consider the Urban Market in Dallas. That place is pretty busy most of the time, and they still are not making a profit yet.

I've personally talked with managers responsible for developing new stores and based on those conversations....I think you're right!

Fort Worthians have been supporting Whole Foods for decades.

[Sam Stone]

I don't think it's a matter of perception at all. CJ is absolutely right, FW residents shop at WF all the time. But this is my point. They site the stores using a radius of households. I wish I could tell you what that radius is and what the inome/age/education level are, but I don't know. What is obvious though is that it is a very large radius and thus precludes them from opening up another store within it. I don't know whether CM's presence affects WF's decisions, but if they do, I imagine this also slows down the location of WF in FW so as not to have to compete.

Regarding the difference between WF and CM there are definitely a few. WF caters a little bit more to the healthy/organic/vegetarian market. CM caters a bit more to the upscale/luxury/gourmet market. They probably overlap more than they differ, but the differences are there. Particularly produce, which CM outdoes WF on.

Personally, I prefer CM to WF, but I'll tell you what: I'm currently living in Indiana where the supermarkets are much more what I imagine supermarkets were like in the 1950s or the Soviet Uniion so I'd be happy for just a Tom Thumb.

[redhead]

Okay, so I'm a contrarian: the people I know that can least afford CM shop there, and the people who are trying to make a healthy point go to WF...(despite the fact that they may still smoke or be obese---hey, it makes them FEEL good.) As for me, I don't like either for regular shopping. I buy lunches (RTE food) at WF when I'm out of town, but I would LOVE to see a Market Street come our way!!! I drive all the way to Colleyville to shop there...let's see: reasonable prices (not Tom Thumb or CM), great selections, RTE boulevard to die for, great wines and....TOILET paper. One stop shopping!!! Plus reasonably priced flowers...it just doesn't get any better IMHO!

[JBB]

I'm a huge fan of Market Street. I'm going to have little reason to drive past the Colleyville location to go the CM in Southlake. I'm sure CM will cut into their business, but the way that place is already hopping, I can't imagine they're too worried.

vjack, I think construction on the Southlake CM started nearly a year after it was originally announced. Anyone have any idea of what other stores are opening in that center?

[vjackson]

SOUTHLAKE - Sprouts, a grocery store that specializes in produce, is slated to break ground at Randol Mill Road and Southlake Boulevard later this month.

The 30,000-square-foot store will probably open by early summer, said Doug Sanders, chief operating officer of the Arizona chain.

The store also sells natural meats, seafood and hormone-free milk, according to the company. It also sells bulk foods in bins and hosts cooking classes.


I"ve been to the Plano store twice and it's really awesome. It reminded me a little of Trader Joes. It's a shame this is another retailer that has bypassed FW...this store would be a great fit for Camp Bowie or the TCU Area. It's odd that they're sticking to DFW surburbs.

[jefffwd]

SOUTHLAKE - Sprouts, a grocery store that specializes in produce, is slated to break ground at Randol Mill Road and Southlake Boulevard later this month.

The 30,000-square-foot store will probably open by early summer, said Doug Sanders, chief operating officer of the Arizona chain.

The store also sells natural meats, seafood and hormone-free milk, according to the company. It also sells bulk foods in bins and hosts cooking classes.


I"ve been to the Plano store twice and it's really awesome. It reminded me a little of Trader Joes. It's a shame this is another retailer that has bypassed FW...this store would be a great fit for Camp Bowie or the TCU Area. It's odd that they're sticking to DFW surburbs.

Actually, there is one at Forest @ Marsh in North Dallas.

[vjackson]

[Actually, there is one at Forest @ Marsh in North Dallas.

Thanks, Jeff I didn't know that. I thought Sprouts was ignoring both cities, but I guess you can add them to the list of retailers who feel FW isn't the city for such things.

[jefffwd]

[Actually, there is one at Forest @ Marsh in North Dallas.

Thanks, Jeff I didn't know that. I thought Sprouts was ignoring both cities, but I guess you can add them to the list of retailers who feel FW isn't the city for such things.

Who knows... they are still "sprouting".

[Sam Stone]

I have another hypothesis. Southlake and some of the other burbs probably have a much higher population of recent transplants from other states than FW proper. I'm sure that there exists sophisticated marketing techniques that can keep up with customers as they move from state to state. Maybe a lot of these companies aren't ignoring FW so much as effectively chasing down their loyal customers.

[Buck]

What about these markets?

Sunflower Shoppe in FW or Healthy Approach in Colleyville?

http://www.sunflower...A09CD9AB0A0C044

[Dismuke]

I have no idea what the deal with Trader Joe's is, though. Public or private, they don't have a metroplex presence at all.....

Trader Joe's is owned by the German discount grocery giant Aldi. Aldi is a "hard discounter" - the closest equivelent here in the Metroplex is the Save-A-Lot chain. The only thing is that, in Europe with its stagnant economy and lower standards of living, even people from affluent demographics regularly shop Aldi stores. Trader Joe's is a division they created for the American market.

The company finances its expansion entirely with cash and some say that its operations are more efficient than even Wal-mart's. It is privately owned and, at least as of a couple of years ago, its co-founder was the world's third richest man worth 23 billion.

I have yet to go to a Trader Joe's - but I did, out of curiosity, walk through an Aldi store I stumbled across while driving through Salina, Kansas a few years back. It looked pretty much like a Save-A-Lot.

You can read a very interesting article about the company at: http://www.businessw...17/b3880010.htm

[tamtagon]

When I lived in So Cal, at least half of my groceries came from Trader Joes. They have good stuff.

You can read a very interesting article about the company at: http://www.businessw...17/b3880010.htm

Thanks for that.