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The WORST Decision for Downtown Ever Made

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#1 Jeriat

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 11:14 PM

I was going to make this a poll, but I figured it would be better to just say what you believe was the worst thing to happen. I know a lot of you have your opinions on it, so I'll just make this one open. 

 

 

I'll start it off by saying that I believe demolishing the old Med. Arts Building for Burnett Plaza was an absolutely awful idea. I HATE Burnett Plaza. I'm sure many of you know that... but it's NOT what I think is the worst decision.

 

Honestly, I think getting rid of the old Tandy (Leonard's) Subway was the biggest mistake. I'm sure many of you wont agree with that, but I feel that it could have been something more. We could have been the only city in Texas with a full, functioning subway system. Sure it was only a mile and went from one stop in downtown to a parking lot a mile northwest, but it was still a subway.

title_world_us_fortworth.jpg

 

Maybe I'm being to overly optimistic, but I could envision a subway line running up and down Throckmorton, Houston, 1st, & 9th Street. Of course, it would only stay underground in downtown. I'd be crazy to suggest a full underground subway anywhere outside of it. The rest of it would be typical light rail. 

 

 

Just my take. It's not gonna happen now, but a guy can dream. 

 

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#2 cberen1

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 02:14 AM

One word:

Superblocks.

#3 johnfwd

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 06:35 AM

I believe the worst decision for downtown has been to let the T&P Warehouse continue to dilapidate for decades until now it is an eyesore.  Fault may lie with property ownership or the city, but the fact remains.

 

Burnett Plaza?  Does anyone know what that banner over NW 7th near Henderson means about international recognition of Burnett Plaza?



#4 Bonfire98A

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 07:35 AM

Burnett Plaza?  Does anyone know what that banner over NW 7th near Henderson means about international recognition of Burnett Plaza?

 

 

Burnett Plaza in Fort Worth Captures International TOBY Award as the Outstanding Building of the Year

 

http://www.businessw...BY#.U9eiXfldV8E



#5 Russ Graham

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 08:11 AM

Okay, as I've said before I've got a fraction of the historical knowledge of the city compared to a lot of folks on this board.  But here are the items I'd nominate as the worst things to happen to DTFW.

1) Demolishing *all* of Hell's Half Acre - leaving no trace of what was one of the more interesting parts of the city's history. 

2) Allowing I-30 to cut DTFW off from the Near Southside.

3) Rejecting the federal streetcar grant in 2010.

 

 

My vote for the worst of these three decisions is for rejecting the streetcar grant, since it was so wretchedly pointless.



#6 JBB

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 08:32 AM

1) Demolishing *all* of Hell's Half Acre - leaving no trace of what was one of the more interesting parts of the city's history. 
2) Allowing I-30 to cut DTFW off from the Near Southside.


I was definitely going to say #1. That coupled with the construction of the convention center on the remaining blocks created a virtual no-man's land between 9th and I-30.

#7 renamerusk

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 11:14 AM

Honestly, I think getting rid of the old Tandy (Leonard's) Subway was the biggest mistake.

title_world_us_fortworth.jpg

 

Maybe I'm being to overly optimistic.....Just my take. It's not gonna happen now, but a guy can dream. 

 

This is a brilliant observation.   Since I believe that the tunnel still exists, I believe that it can be reborn and that some future council will someday give it consideration when a streetcar or transit system is designed for the central core.



#8 McHand

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 02:48 PM

 

 

 Since I believe that the tunnel still exists . . .

 

AND acres of surface parking.  This thing could be reborn with the political will.


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#9 John T Roberts

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 03:57 PM

I'm going to have to remember back to my childhood and teenage years.  I believe that Leonard's and later Tandy offered other businesses the chance to jump in and expand the system, but none of the other business and property owners took them up on the chance.  The subway was in operation from 1963 until 2002, so if no one offered to expand the system, then I'm sure none of the other property owners wanted it.  Also, the Fort Worth National Bank (Currently The Tower) put an end to expansion by constructing a tunnel connecting their parking garage with the main building under Taylor Street in 1974.  I think there may be a couple of other tunnels beneath Taylor now, as well. 



#10 Jeriat

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 07:35 PM

I'm going to have to remember back to my childhood and teenage years.  I believe that Leonard's and later Tandy offered other businesses the chance to jump in and expand the system, but none of the other business and property owners took them up on the chance.  The subway was in operation from 1963 until 2002, so if no one offered to expand the system, then I'm sure none of the other property owners wanted it.  Also, the Fort Worth National Bank (Currently The Tower) put an end to expansion by constructing a tunnel connecting their parking garage with the main building under Taylor Street in 1974.  I think there may be a couple of other tunnels beneath Taylor now, as well. 

 

I figured. 

Just seemed like a missed opportunity... 


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#11 urbancowboy

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 08:19 PM

It totally breaks my heart to think that we could've expanded the subway. I didn't even know that was an option.  I think between shutting down the subway and demolishing Hell's Half Acre that those two things really would have helped Fort Worth maintain a stronger national and regional identity.  The subway at the very least would be an awesome tie into a modern streetcar system (like Philadelphia), and Hell's Half Acre would probably be Sixth Street (Austin) meets The Strand (Galveston).  Gosh now my night is ruined thinking of all that wasted opportunity.  I'm sure I'll get over it soon.



#12 Fort Worthology

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Posted 30 July 2014 - 09:00 AM

The city actually had a plan in the '70s to take over the Leonard's subway and expand it through the rest of downtown and the surroundings.  I used to have a PDF of the plans.  I dearly wish I hadn't lost it.


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#13 johnfwd

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Posted 30 July 2014 - 12:24 PM

The city actually had a plan in the '70s to take over the Leonard's subway and expand it through the rest of downtown and the surroundings.  I used to have a PDF of the plans.  I dearly wish I hadn't lost it.

We've discussed this in another thread before and I totally support the idea!  Why didn't the city follow through with this?  Was it because the idea of "subterranean" transit, or even the monorail concept, was not in vogue at the time?



#14 double

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 01:55 PM

I suspect it was going to be a challenge to locate and move all the underground utilities that would be affected by the tunnel.   



#15 John T Roberts

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 12:35 PM

The removal of the underground utilities was an issue and another issue was that some other building owners built their own tunnels beneath Taylor Street.  Those would have needed to have been removed, as well.



#16 Jamie

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 08:36 PM

Here's a link to the Fort Worth CBD Subway study from 1974: 

http://northtexastra...ubway/CBDS.html

 

As for existing tunnels beneath Taylor street needing to be removed, I think a better idea would be to integrate them with the subway line as Tandy Center began to do - a mini version of the Underground City in Montreal.

 

I would imagine a subway beneath Jones or Calhoun streets would have fewer problems with utilities - even today. 



#17 John T Roberts

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 09:33 PM

Jamie, thanks for posting this.  I didn't remember that the study suggested curving the route over to Throckmorton Street.  That would have avoided the tunnels.  However, in 1974, the Tandy Center had not been built, yet.



#18 Austin55

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 10:32 PM

What would high speed transit be in this case?



#19 RD Milhollin

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Posted 29 October 2014 - 12:08 AM

There was a study on a regional high-speed rail system that was referred to U-TACV. I found a reference to the a 1973 study in the James S. Vecchio papers in the Special Collections at the UTA Library. See "Box 3" at the following link:

 

http://www.lib.utexa...65/00065-P.html

 

It would be cool to scan and put the report online, but would require special permission from the curators. There is probably a copy in the FW Public Library downtown as well. 

 

In the Subway extension study the U-TACV is in the square tunnel just above the lowest part of the subway course. The subway project would have been a pretty far-sighted step for the city to have taken back then, but there was a lot of optimism among city leaders at that time. I have never before heard of the U-TACV study, but is sounds as if might have been a precursor to the TRE system, but on a much more adventurous (expensive) scale.



#20 Jamie

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Posted 29 October 2014 - 09:08 AM

What would high speed transit be in this case?

TACV (Tracked Air Cushioned Vehicles) which were that transportation fad from the late 1960's up until the 1973 oil crisis. Some of these were jet-powered, gas-guzzling monsters: http://www.shonner.com/aerotrain/



#21 Volare

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Posted 29 October 2014 - 02:01 PM

In that first subway photo check out all the oil leaks on the surface of that parking lot from the cars! :eek:



#22 Fort Worthology

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Posted 29 October 2014 - 02:23 PM

TACV (Tracked Air Cushioned Vehicles) which were that transportation fad from the late 1960's up until the 1973 oil crisis. Some of these were jet-powered, gas-guzzling monsters: http://www.shonner.com/aerotrain/

 

 

 

 

:huh:

 

We were certainly dreaming big, weren't we?


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#23 Urbndwlr

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Posted 10 November 2014 - 12:27 PM

I thought the worst decision that affected Downtown was the demolition of several city blocks to create the Convention Center. 

And probably the demolition of several other buildings for what are now parking lots.



#24 Jeriat

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Posted 10 November 2014 - 09:26 PM

 

I thought the worst decision that affected Downtown was the demolition of several city blocks to create the Convention Center. 

And probably the demolition of several other buildings for what are now parking lots.

 

That pretty much goes without saying... 


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#25 BedfordLawyer

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Posted 16 November 2014 - 01:17 PM

I thought the worst decision that affected Downtown was the demolition of several city blocks to create the Convention Center. 

And probably the demolition of several other buildings for what are now parking lots.

 

Yeah but look at all the business the convention center has brought to downtown... :laugh:


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